First attempt at bonding off to a bad start, looking for hope / ideas

[ParanormalSteve]

Thanks for reading and sorry for the long post but we need help! I am currently pouring through other bonding stories in hopes to find similar situations and help but I figured I’d post in case anyone has advice to our two bunnies.

We have two female rabbits almost 5 months old. Both have been spayed over a month ago so the hormones should be out. (We where told one was a boy at first but that changed!). One is a Mini Lop ( Kesa ) and the other is a lionhead ( Roshi ). Roshi is a bit smaller than Kesa but they are very similar in size.

We started by moving the cages closer and closer each day as we read that tip online beforehand. They are fine with it until the cages where side by side and they would try to get at the other one through the bars with a burrow like attack at the bars and looking to nip the other. After a few days of that not working we moved the cages apart to let them calm down. 

Since they showed aggression towards each other before we took them on a car ride together to help them “stress bond” and trust each other more. They are fine for this part. Once home we placed them in a neutral area (small bathroom) but usually after a minute or two one comes for the other….

We know some fighting is expected but they seem to come up to each others face, pause for a second or two and then one nips and they seem to “jump” into each other. This then usually turns into more jumping or close circling. We break that up quickly but usually one has lost a bit of hair in the exchange. Once yesterday I was bit pretty hard on the thumb (yay for gloves). But she bit so hard and she wouldn’t let go. I cant imagine the damage if that hit the other bunny. 

Everywhere seems to have conflicting ideas on how to handle overly aggressive bunnies.

Some things of note:

* Kesa used to try to mount Roshi, but Roshi would turn and nip her and turn it into a scuffle. Kesa hasn’t tried to mount the last two meetings

* Roshi keeps coming up with both ears straight up (heard this is good) but then seems to try to nip Kesa’s nose a lot and turns it into another battle

* Kesa tends to seem scared or aggressive, rarely in the middle. Roshi never seems to scared but when the fights gets going gets adamant about coming to her even through the broom I use to separate!

* Both have eaten hay and pellets between fights, Roshi even laid down once. Kesa made sure to come over and put a stop to it.

* might not be of note, but we have a cat and she wants to play with Roshi, but runs away from Kesa. Maybe this has a hint to a personality they can sense better? Never seen either nip the cat.

If anyone with more experience could help me figure out where they stand or what they are trying to tell me we would REALLY appreciate the help! We are so worried one might get hurt badly and we will fail their bonding! We just want them to have a friend! 

[Silwerkitty]

Hi there, I’m not very familiar with overly aggressive bunnies, but I do think you should put bonding on hold for a while. This negative behaviour keeps being reinforced everytime they have another fight. This might be completely wrong, but I would suggest starting from scratch. Remove them from each other’s sight and smell, to different rooms if possible, for at least two weeks so they can forget their fights. I actually think you should seperate them completely for another month, as their hormones can stay active for two months after spaying. Then I would put their cages next to each other again, right from the start.

The burrowing at the cage is kind of normal, give it a week to see if that gets less and if it does, great! Lying next to the cage of the other is also good. Remember not to put the cages so close that they can hurt each other through the bars at all. I would keep them like that for a month or two even, and note their behaviours. Some bunnies calm down with time, others just get more and more angry. Have you tried swapping them to each other’s cages every day? It’s good for them to get used to living with the other’s scent. Remember another thing, if the bathroom doesn’t work, try the empty, dry bath tub. If that doesn’t work, try an xpen on the kitchen floor, even outside, as long as it’s completely new to each bun and you can still quickly stop any fight. If something’s not working, change it. Maybe put a neutral (not smelling of either) litterbox with some hay in there with them, give them something else to focus on than each other. Try talking to them in a soothing way or even singing to them while petting them calmly. It’s important for you to be calm during bonding, because they will pick up on your stress and associate the other bunny with that. This last bit is the hardest part of bonding, for me.

If all else fails, see if you can get some Pet Remedy to relax them a bit. I’m actually soon to bond three pairs together and have started them on a bit of pet remedy, as there have been quite a few fights in the past.

Regarding fighting and nipping: A little nipping is okay, humping is okay (keep it to 5 seconds maximum then gently remove the top bun and put them alongside each other, you could even try gently petting the bottom bun if she doesn’t seem to like the humping). If there seems to be too much humping going on, gently stop it before it starts for 20 minutes or so, as excessive humping can make the humpee angry and lead to a fight. All of these things are okay as long as they don’t lead to circling or chasing. Always stop circling or chasing as these two behaviours usually lead to a full blown fight. You want to avoid a full on jumping in the air, ripping out each other’s fur fight at all costs as this sets your bonding back by about a week each time. Also don’t allow reverse humping (humping someone’s head) as a bite down there can be quite horrific.

Always end a bonding session on a positive note (this can even just mean they’re ignoring each other) and give them each a small treat so they start to associate each other with good things. Keep bonding sessions short at first, 15 minutes max until you see improvement. If you do stress bonding, try stressing them on a car ride, then straight back in the cage for the first two or three times before putting them in neutral territory after the car trip.

Even though I do believe any two buns can be bonded given enough time and patience, not everyone has the time or patience required to do it. My advice is not to give up too soon on them ever being bonded. Bunnies can hate each other today and three days/weeks later, they’re inseperable. Just focus on the positives and try to avoid the negatives. Sorry for my long answer.

[LittlePuffyTail]

Females tend to be more territorial so you have my sympathies. I can’t imagine bonding two of my Olivia!

You’re on the right track by doing stress bonding. However, from research and personal experience, I definitely agree with kitty, after the stress bonding, do not put them together. Stress bond, then let them go back to their separate houses. I found mine would be extra aggressive when together right after the stressing. Like they were taking out the stress from the car ride on each other.

[ParanormalSteve]

Not sure if my last reply went though so I’ll put it here and delete the old one if it shows up (Sorry new to site and not sure how long till stuff shows up)

“I like long answers so don’t worry! I’m glad you mentioned the hormones for two months thing. I had never known it could take so long. We tried swapping their cages but it seemed they then forgot they where litter trained and pooped all over the other cage so we stopped for a while out of fear of messing up their litter habits. We started up again then other day and one seems to be able to use the other litter box fine while the other spreads them a bit more haha. 

Tried the dry bath tub first and that went pretty bad. It seems the smaller area the worse it is, The worst session ever was in a small box the size of a milk crate. That’s the time I got bit.

Thanks for the tip of pet remedy. I had never heard about it and will definitely look into it.

Maybe separating for a week or two would be best. 

We truly hope any two can be bonded because they are both sweet on their own and we can support a third bunny so they would be so lonely if they never bonded!”

Thanks for the extra help LittlePuffyTail, between your two responses I think we will have them in separate rooms while doing just stress bonding for a while with no interaction after. How long do you guys think we should do this before another attempted meeting?

[Silwerkitty]

I definitely think you should just keep them seperate now for at least two weeks, preferably a month. It’s just very important to give them time apart so they’ll forget these fighting experiences.

Then I still think you should swap their cages every day or at least every two days. I should have mentioned that you can expect the loo habits to go out the door, it’s only because they’re trying to spread their scent over the other bunny’s scent, thereby mixing their scents together, which is exactly what you want. They’ll probably tend to mark the side of the cage that’s closest to the other bunny with poops and pee. It’s like the border between mine and thine and whoever marks most, wins. I like to call this the poop wars, trust me, with three different sets of buns in my house at the moment, the poop wars are in full swing. This is okay, when they’re bonded, their good litterbox habits will gradually return in a month or two. Bunnies generally like to be clean, this is really just to try and exert dominance in a very passive aggressive way. Perfectly normal.

Okay, bath tub is out, try something else. What actually worked for me and it’s a technique I still use although it’s probably a bit dangerous, so don’t do it alone, is to put them both on the dining room table. It’s smooth and slippery so not easy to get a good grip on, kind of a good stress bonding without any borders confining them. I put the table against a wall, so there are only two or three sides where they can jump/fall off of. This is the dangerous part, and the reason you need another person to help so they don’t accidentally get hurt. Each of you keep a towel handy in case you need to stick it in between them when they’re getting aggro. I put a litterbox and some water on the table as well and if it’s going well, I’ll feed them their veggies on there, also.

I know what you mean by both being sweet on their own, one of my girl buns is the sweetest thing with humans, but such a little aggro thing with the other buns. I’m still gonna bond her and her mate with my other four, it may just take a bit longer.

I think you can start the stress bonding after the month is over, try to do that every day then back in the seperate cages next to each other for a week or two and see if there’s progress in their interaction between the bars. If they seem to be making progress, you can attempt another meeting. Basically you have to let their reactions steer you. Sometimes bunnies will be fighty the first 20 minutes of a session, in which case it’s good to make the session last longer so there’s more happy time than angry time, sometimes they only start fighting after the first 10 minutes, in which case you’ll want to keep the sessions shorter than that in the beginning, give a treat after 10 minutes and stop. Rather maybe do two or more shorter sessions a day. Again, avoid full blown aggression at all costs.

Top tip: Do bonding sessions in the middle of the day, when they’re in nap-mode instead of early morning or evening, when they’re fully awake and alert.

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