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Forum BONDING Nessie and Ollie!

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    • LopNessMonster
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        So I’ve read a ton of bonding threads on here and at least one blog and three or so articles so I thought I was prepared but after the first session I did some more reading and realized I’d been doing some things wrong, so here we go.

        I’ll start from the beginning and catch up!

        First Date:

        We brought Nessie down to see Ollie at his foster home to make sure they were not killing each other before I brought him home.  The car ride was about an hour, my boyfriend held Nessie on his lap (in the carrier) while I drove.  We got into the foster house and met Ollie with Nessie still in the carrier.  Then we put Ollie down on the floor and brought Nessie out.  Ollie mounted Nessie a couple of times and she didn’t fight, just sat there.  There was no biting or chasing and Ollie lost interest after he was pushed off of Nessie.  Seemed all good so we brought them home.

        At Home:

        Since they did so well, I made the mistake of thinking this would be easy 

        I closed the doors to a larger room and put out some lettuce and let the rabbits out.  Immediately fighting broke out.  I was worried for them and broke it up, sustaining a really good bite from Nessie (though they were both really rough).  I separated them and fixed my injury, then tried some bathtub time after a break.  I think the room was not neutral enough territory which is probably part of the issue.  I sat in the bathtub with both of them (which I now realize is not helpful) and tried to get them to play nice.  Nessie immediately began climbing all over me, trying to get away from Ollie.  Ollie sat in the corner and did absolutely nothing.  When Nessie ended up near Ollie, he would nip at her and they would fight and I would break them up.  Nessie kept trying to get away from him by climbing on me (it was kind of cute, she’s never wanted to hang out in my lap before) and eventually she peed on me which was gross.  I decided that being peed on is probably a good sign to end the session so I let Nessie have some running time and put Ollie in his cage.

        Next try:

        After reading wheekwheekthump a bit, I learned a few things and got out a large cardboard box.  Lots of fighting, I tried to break them up by shaking the box, banging on the side with a wooden spoon, etc.  I had to shake pretty hard, sometimes to the point where the bunnies were sliding to the side of the box before they would cut it out.  I gave up after maybe 5 or 10 minutes on this one, Nessie got her ear bitten.  Ollie did most of the biting this round.  Nessie’s ear looks ok, she got lucky and it’s not torn, just a red spot in the middle.  I’m not sure if he broke the skin or if he just took off enough hair and bruised it so I put a tad bit of neosporin on it just in case and I’m keeping an eye on it.  I took the two bunnies over to the couch and held them on my lap and forcibly pet them to keep them still.  I was able to pet them like this for quite a while.  Nessie got antsy every time I stopped and would go to bite Ollie.  I was pretty stressed too so I just kept petting them.  

        Last Night:

        I tried the box again, this time I put Nessie in first and Ollie in second.  It seemed to go much better and I am feeling better about this.  There were not as many fights and some of them were just quick scuffles.  There was lots of ignoring.  I put some lettuce in and Nessie would munch on it but Ollie ignored it.  I’m not sure if this is related to bonding or not since Ollie doesn’t seem to be that interested in food in general while Nessie will go wild.  I think Nessie’s munching is probably a good sign at least.  I would agitate them a bit if the ignoring went on for more than a couple minutes, shaking the box a tiny bit.  This would incite stomping and sometimes nipping and one or two fights.

        That’s where I’m at so far.  Tonight I’m going out so there will probably only be a quick session.  Any advice is very very welcome!


      • NewBunnyOwner123
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          If they are ignoring each other I wouldn’t I twice them. They are going from fighting to indifference which is a step up from them fighting. If you notice that you shaking the box because they aren’t doing anything leads to fighting, then you’re taking a step backwards again.

          I hope someone corrects me if I’m wrong. But that’s what I interpreted from that.

          I’m going to follow this because I’m in for a difficult bond in the future as well so I’m going to peer in to read how people advise you on bonding them. good luck!


        • LopNessMonster
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            Thanks NBO! I had read that if they ignore each other they weren’t interacting and I should try and get them to interact but maybe that was only if it seemed that they weren’t progressing. Hmm… I’ll let them ignore each other the next few times.

            Also forgot to mention I did a swap yesterday as soon as I got home from work. Nessie went to Ollie’s cage and Ollie went to Nessie’s. I did some chores with them like that and then let Ollie have some playtime. Then Bonding, then Nessie got some playtime. They slept in each others’ cages last night and I swapped them back to their usual cages this morning. It was really funny to see them in the other rabbit’s cage, sniffing everything and exploring. Ollie hadn’t been in Nessie’s big cage before either so it was funny to see him try to find his way around the shelves.


          • NewBunnyOwner123
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              I think they meant like if they haven’t fought in awhile and they are just kinda boring then to. But it seems in your case it’s actually a step up from where they started. Indifference is the next step. Then after awhile. As in multiple sessions of the two just showing indifference and not grooming THEN step in. Make the space a little smaller and such. But I wouldn’t mess with them if they were showing the sign of indifference right now. I’d be relieved to see the indifference! Because the more they fight, the harder it’s going to be to seal that bond and trust one another.


            • NewBunnyOwner123
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                Yeah I might have to do some cage swapping after Bam gets neutered to prepare the bonding. But I’m going to go ridiculously slow. The reaction from Harley was enough to make me realize that not all,bonds will be easy! Him and Sally were like pie! Love at first sight. And Bam was hate at first sight but I’m hoping to make it love

                Be sure to update! I’ll be keeping an eye out


              • LopNessMonster
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                  Well that makes way more sense! And it makes me feel better because I hate when they fight. I feel bad for Nessie when she gets picked on by Ollie because she was the first bun and I don’t want her to think I’ve brought Ollie in to ruin her life

                  I will definitely update this until they are bonded, I need all the help I can get


                • LopNessMonster
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                    So the last bonding session went a bit better, only one or two scuffles I had to work to break up, tons of stomping. Nessie has turned into the aggressor, lunging at Ollie. I put some lettuce in for them to munch on. Nessie munched but Ollie didn’t. Nessie was pretty chill, even flopped once or twice but Ollie was scared out of his wits. Every time Nessie would go over he would run away. Nessie also doesn’t like being in the box at all and will keep standing up and trying to get out. Lots of ignoring going on.

                    Yesterday I had them both out at the same time and Nessie would chase Ollie but I was able to stop her each time. At one point Ollie’s cage was open and she hopped in and then he also hopped in. I was standing guard waiting for problems but they sniffed each other and went opposite directions. Hooray!

                    I’m going to try the banana trick tonight.
                    I really hope they stop pooping everywhere once they’re bonded. I know Nessie is doing it on purpose but I’m not 100% sure about Ollie. The rescue said he was great with his litterbox but I haven’t found that to be 100% true.
                    Also I’ve been peed on twice now during this process and it is not cool man.


                  • NewBunnyOwner123
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                      During times like this it’s normal to see litter box habits go crazy. They’re poop marking and marking their territory. Even after they’re bonded it can still go on a little bit afterwards but Sally and Harley only pooped everywhere like a day or two after moving in together and then continued on with their litter box habits normally.

                      It sounds like Ollie doesn’t quite trust Nessie yet. Which is understandable if she’s playing the aggressor and chasing and nipping. And When they’re in the box together try sitting them side by side and petting both of them at the same time.

                      Let me know how the banana trick works out for you I’ll probably end up having to bring out some tricks too when I have to bond Bam to Sally and Harley.


                    • LopNessMonster
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                        Continuing progress! We had a box session with no major fights, just tons of nips (all from Nessie) Basically it goes like this.
                        I put them in the box. Nessie stands on her hind legs and tries to see out of the box. Ollie huddles against the wall. Nessie notices Ollie and lunges at him. Ollie scrambles around to the other side of the box and huddles against the wall. Nessie does lots of standing on her hind legs, tries to get out of the box, scratches at the walls. Eventually she notices Ollie and lunges and he scrambles to the other side of the box. This goes on and on. I have tried petting one or both of them which calms them down (Ollie doesn’t need this since he sits motionless anyway) Nessie will hold still for a while after I stop petting her and eventually she kind of “wakes up” and either lunges at or ignores Ollie.

                        I got banana but it isn’t quite ripe so I got some applesauce too. Nessie normally goes crazy for applesauce but seemed to not care about it when it was on Ollie.

                        I suppose this is progress since they haven’t had a major fight that I had to break up but I sooooo want to see them be nice to each other. Or even just for Ollie to be anything but terrified.

                        On a happier note, Ollie seems to be settling in very well. He’s doing binkies in his playtime and he’s started to get more excited about his greens and enjoying his pellets.


                      • NewBunnyOwner123
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                          Pet Ollie too. Have them side by side and just let both of them. It will comfort Ollie. But he’s not going to trust her if she continues to lunge at him. The banana trick seems to be a little premature considering Nellie is doing a lot of lunging towards Ollie.

                          Pet them for a long time if you need to. But don’t let Nellie nip Ollie. Try to prevent that.
                          Maybe do some pre stress bonding before bonding. Put them in a crate, drive around the block a couple times and then bring them inside.

                          Or have the vaccuum running while they’re in the box. That way Nellie will seek comfort in Ollie and huddle together.


                        • Deleted User
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                            Don’t give up on Nessie and Ollie; I had a rough start with Reno and Leia, too, but persistence was worth it! Now, they’re not all ga-ga over each other, but they chill together and eat together now. But it has been a long road getting there. I found that my voice and presence was a big key in making this work, as I was constantly telling each bun to “Be nice” and kissed and petted each one when they were. I think they were excited for mommy to be happy that they were being nice to each other. They still need some work ( Reno is demanding grooming and Leia is clueless to what he’s asking), but I see good things for ur buns. The hardest bonds to make are sometimes the closest! Keep it up!


                          • LopNessMonster
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                              Oh I do pet Ollie, poor guy, he’s not doing anything wrong and mean ol’ Ness keeps nipping him. I concentrate on Ness a bit since she needs to chill out but I do give Ollie some pets and tell him he’s doing a good job. I have sat them both in my lap and pet them together and they hold still for as long as I am petting. I don’t know if that is helping at all since they don’t seem to even know the other one is there. I try to end all my sessions like that so they have a good unfighting calm end.
                              Any suggestions on keeping Nessie from nipping Ollie? I can sometimes see that she’s thinking about it right before she lunges. Should I pet her to calm her down or hold something in front of her to block her? Maybe just talk to her? I have tried talking to them when they’re getting tense. “Nice bunny… niiiiice bunny…. be good Nessie” seems to actually help a bit. Should I do that more? I know I’m not supposed to interfere too much but I do want Ollie to quit getting picked on so much for doing nothing.
                              I don’t know what I can do to stress them. Nessie doesn’t mind the vacuum cleaner (she’s actually friends with the roomba) and when I’ve tried putting the box on the dryer or gently shaking it, she just gets more aggressive as if it’s Ollie’s fault the box is shaking. I’ll see if I can try the car but that seems like it could go badly. I’d have to get them in the carrier not fighting long enough to walk to the car and of course have my boyfriend drive.

                              I’ll try doing more intervening tonight. At the very least, Ollie will appreciate the break


                            • LopNessMonster
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                                Had a bit of a rest this weekend and will try more bonding today, hopefully a bathtub session. I feel like we aren’t making progress. I can pet them and have them sit still for quite a long time unless I stop petting. I’ve tried to prevent Nessie from nipping by petting her when she gets close but hasn’t lunged yet. A few times Ollie got spooked by something and stomped and ran and Nessie would be startled by it and lunge at him. *sigh* I can get them to eat some lettuce in the box but not at the same time. Nessie is sometimes ok with flopping but Ollie hasn’t done that yet. Both of them (mostly Nessie) are primarily concerned with getting out of the box (or bathtub) and will just stand up on their hind legs over and over trying to see out.
                                gaaah


                              • LopNessMonster
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                                  I found a source of stress! The hair dryer! Aimed at the rabbits, they are quite distressed by the blowing air (I have a cool setting on mine so I’m not toasting them or anything, don’t worry) I got them to huddle together without physically placing them side by side. This is probably more of a breakthrough for me than for them but hey, at least I finally have something I can run with.


                                • LopNessMonster
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                                    Sorry for the lack of updates, there have been a lot of boringly similar sessions and I didn’t know how much you guys wanted to hear about how they sat in the box and did the same things they usually do or how they sat in the bathtub and did the same stuff. Anyway, the real-fighting dwindled down pretty quickly and Nessie slowly stopped lunging/nipping Ollie as much. I took a more active intervention approach and used a spray bottle to tell Nessie to quit biting him. That actually worked pretty well, she hates the water and it makes her stop and wash her face for a few minutes.

                                    Yesterday we had a real breakthrough though! I decided since it was the weekend and I had the most spare time, I’d try extending the bonding for as long as I could. It went great. They ate lettuce together in the box, then sat around. I got a flop from Nessie and some grooming from both of them. Very little nipping. This went on for a couple hours, mostly ignoring, some stomping, only minor nips and even some groom-demanding! Then after leaving them there a little while longer, something magical happened… Ollie started grooming Nessie! I was so excited! For some reason, he was grooming her face, specifically her eye, which was ok until he got too close to her actual eye and she jumped. No bites though! He went back to grooming shortly after that and there was quite a bit of grooming and omg was it cute.

                                    Then a weird thing happened. Ollie mounted Nessie. Nessie did nothing at first and I pushed him off after a few seconds. He settled down for a bit and then mounted her again. He did it several times and I pushed him off if it went on for more than a few seconds. Eventually Nessie got tired of this crap and ran or nipped at him, resulting in minor scuffles. I felt it was ok for me to let her defend herself a bit as long as nobody was getting hurt. They did a great job, I am so happy.

                                    Where do I go from here? I don’t know how to introduce them to areas that are not neutral. Tonight I’m going to spend some time in the bathroom with them, which is a larger but still fairly neutral area. I’m going to do some more reading up on this but I would greatly appreciate anyone’s advice!

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