So frustrated :(

[MalPal]

Hey everyone! So, I’m coming here (first post!) because I am at a loss of what to do. I had a 1 1/2 year old fixed, male, dwarf rabbit (that I had for a year) and decided to adopt a second one after researching a lot about bonding. We took him to the shelter and a 2 year old girl bunny and him seemed to get along ok. They had a bunny expert there and said she thought it was a good match. There were a ton of dogs barking though and it was extremely loud.

We took her home and tried some bonding in the bathroom and also tried the kitchen, and it went ok, but not great. She did a lot of chasing (which I stopped when it got too much) and he was very aggressive towards her. We kept doing daily sessions, but they seemed to get worse and worse. They would get aggressive and start to fight (we would then quickly spray them with water). She would put her head down for him to groom, but even with banana on her head, he would not. Eventually, they would be aggressive immediately during the bunny dates. After 2 very unsuccessful months, we decided to take a break for a while. We built side by side enclosures and let them out for daily play at separate times. They could see each other and got used to being near each other. We waited 6 months.

So, we started trying the bonding process again about a month ago, and it started out much better than the last time, which was great! They pretty much ignored each other for most of the time, but she is just soooo persistent on getting groomed. She will stick her face into his chest and nip him if he doesn’t groom her (and he reacts badly). I put some banana on her head and he actually licked it off. I put banana on her head for the next few sessions, until he would groom her without the banana. So now, he does occasionally groom her, but she is so selfish with the grooming. She wants him to do it ALL the time. If he stops, she nips, and he gets mad, and they start to fight. She will not groom him back even though he presents his head sometimes. She just shoves her head under his. They both still get aggressive with ears back towards each other too.

I’m starting to feel that they will never be bonded. Everything I’ve read says that once they start grooming that they will quickly become friends, but that isn’t the case for me. He’s been grooming her for almost 2 weeks without any banana and they still get aggressive and start to fight. I’m really not sure what to do. It’s been such a long process. Do you think there is hope? I love them both and just really want them to be friends.

Thank you so much for reading all of this, any advice would be fantastic. 

-Mal

[MoveDiagonally]

When you say that they start to fight what do you mean exactly? What kind of fighting?

[MalPal]

They pull some hair. I stop it before they can do more than a tuft or two. Some grunting. Maybe I’m just being overprotective, but these scuffles make me nervous. Usually they are quick, and even if I didn’t intervene, I think they would stop fairly quickly.

Edit: oh and lunging. When they approach each other they get tense with their ears back and lunge. But he still grooms her. I don’t get it…

[Beka27]

Where are they during these bonding sessions? Have you tried experimenting with different spaces (a much smaller space, or a much larger space?) With the grooming stand-offs, I had good luck with snugging them up side by side (facing the same direction, cheek to cheek) and petting them both at the same time with one hand. I did not pet gently, but rather vigorously, asserting my dominance and making them stay close to each other.

Grooming can be tricky b/c some buns groom, some don’t, some want it ALL THE TIME, some don’t care… It is very one-sided in some relationships, but that’s not necessarily a bad thing as long as they don’t fight. My pair eventually came to an understanding: Meadow would present for grooming (head down), Max would resist. Meadow would say, “Fine!” and groom Max for a moment, then present again. Then Max would groom Meadow. And this was after they were bonded for years…

Have you tried doing a marathon session yet with them together all day? This would, of course, require your attention all day.

[MalPal]

Unfortunately my apartment only had 2 rooms that my original boy bunny (Joey) had never been in before (kitchen and bathroom). We tried both of those and also tried the living room (after a deep clean to try to get any smell out that would make him territorial). We also tried making the space smaller and bigger. So far, the kitchen has been by far the best (medium sized).

Yeah I do put them side by side and pet them often. I pet them on the softer side though, so I’ll try petting them more dominantly. Thank you for the tip!

The grooming thing is very weird, because Joey licks me CONSTANTLY. He will hardly let me pet him without licking my hand or pants or even my nose. Phoebe (my girl) ONLY wants pets. She presents her head to me and has only licked me a few times. They seem like a perfect match in that way!!! He loves to groom, she loves to BE groomed! haha!

I haven’t tried an all day session yet. Last night I had them in the kitchen for about 4 hours though. They did well! A few scuffles, but I only had to spray them with water once or twice.

Honestly, I think the problem is that Joey still won’t give in and be the submissive bunny. He’s getting better, but they are both trying to be top bun and that’s why it’s taking so long. Phoebe is definitely the top bun though. She is a very dominant bunny. Although, there has never been any mounting ever.

Thank you SO much for the advice. When I read articles before I adopted Phoebe, bonding sounded like it would take a few weeks at most. Fast forward 9 months later, and I realize it isn’t always that easy of a match, haha. The shelter I adopted Phoebe with said we had 30 days to decide if the match would work and if it was after 30 days, they couldn’t take her back anymore, so we’d have to surrender her somewhere else. I refused to surrender her, because she had been in a shelter since she was a baby bunny and had lived for almost 2 years in that loud, scary shelter (not that the shelter was a bad place, just to a little bunny, dogs barking all the time would be frightening!). I want her to have a permanent, loving home. In the last few months, she’s started to really come out of her shell too. It took a while, she was very nervous for a long time. Plus, I love her to pieces!

[KW BunnyMystic]

Don’t give up! I think this can work, you have a lot going for you with these two.

If she grew up in the shelter, she has been learning a lot about being a house bunny, while she has tried to bond. And on top of that she is a strong willed bunny! Strong willed bunnies are great, but they take time!

I am in an oftentimes frustrating bonding situation with four bunnies, and I have found using multiple stressors to be very, very, very helpful to break the bunnies down and get them to rely on each other and build trust and a friendship. These techniques have gotten me past plateaus and on to the next level of bonding.

I too have bunnies that will groom and groom and groom, but also nip and chase and grunt! Very confusing, VERY FRUSTRATING! But these are the things that are keeping us moving forward. Tanlover14, a Binky Bunny bonding expert, stresses to never let them get into a pattern or stay stuck in the same behaviors, to always change things up to push them out of their patterns.

I have found doing multiple 20 – 30 minute stress situations back to back very helpful, as long as the bunnies seem to be able to tolerate it. If they seem exhausted, that’s ok, and actually a good thing.

Stressors I have tried;

1. Putting them in a cool dryer (you never turn it on) and rotate the drum if any nipping starts, this gets them off balance and forces them to smoosh together. I pulled up a chair and set a timer for 20 minutes and did two of these over two days, and it completely changed the behavior of my two males that had been fighting.

2. LONG car rides for an hour to hour and a half

3. Taking them in a small cage to a party at a friend’s house (this was hugely successful!). They just sat in the cage in the middle of the living room floor. I have now done this twice.

4. Having them in a small cage or carrier and introducing them to very interested, but safe dogs that they do not know, allowing the dogs to sniff and circle the cage/carrier

5. Putting them in a small box or cage on top of the washer and dryer while they are in use

6. Putting them in a box with tall sides just big enough for them to lie comfortably in, next to each other, with a bunch of hay on the bottom and putting a sheet over it, and the minute the nipping and scuffling starts, dragging the box around, or using a loud noise (rattle, vacuum cleaner, blender) to distract them

7. A marathon session, where they are in a small box or cage with very little extra room for at least 24 to 48 hours with constant supervision, intervening when there are skirmishes, but also letting them work their relationship out.

Good luck!

[MalPal]

UPDATE!

For personal reasons, I had to take a break from bonding for a few months. We started up again and did car stress bonding and it totally worked great! The aggression was so much less immediately. After more successful bunny dates, I moved them on to a semi neutral location and things went really well there too! They had tense moments, but no actual fights ever broke out (and I usually didn’t even have to spray them with water. They just worked it out on their own.)

So yesterday I decided to try the marathon session. They did wonderfully at first. Cuddling and grooming all day! They were together for about 20 hours until this morning at around 615 am when a fight broke out so suddenly! She nipped him and he nipped back and then an all out fur flying fight! I split them up, but I’m feeling defeated. Any tips on when this happens in the cementing process? Do I take a break or put them back together soon?

[Sindri]

I have just finished bonding my 2 last week. It was a long 8 month off and on again process. When I was doing marathon sessions if they got kind of fussy with each other I would take them out and stress bond and put them back together. I wouldn’t totally separate them. Try doing something like that. I had a bonding box and a stroller I would put them in it and simply walk them around for a short bit it helped every time. I don’t know what your set up looks like where you are keeping them during your bonding sessions but I also made sure to have things in there like toys and magazines which they like to rip up that way they had things to do together. It helped.

You may not be ready for a session lasting 20 hours. If they fought badly like that I would stress them then do shorter sessions until they are getting along again. I started my marathon sessions at 4 hours then 8 hours sessions. I noticed that at the 8 hour time frame mine would get fussy they wanted to go back to their rooms. I did several 8 hours and then finally realized that they were ready to be with each other full time.

I wish you luck the big thing is to be patient and to keep at it. I think you will have some success with a small stress bonding then put them together in their bonding area and do a shorter session. I look forward to hearing how things go.

[MalPal]

Thanks Sindriona!

They have toys and a few phone books in the area they were in, so they had stuff to do.

They’ve done a few 8 hour sessions before, and things were good. Im not totally surprised it happened early in the morning though, my girl gets really feisty in the early hours of the morning. They hadn’t ever been together at that time of the day before.

I think another stress bonding session is a great idea, I’ll try that! Thank you so much for the advice!!!

[Sindri]

I hope it helps. My girl is feisty in the mornings as well. She is the most active then. She likes to butt nip too. That was my last issue I had to stress them over. She was wanting to be groomed a lot and she would start nipping Usagi and he would turn around and groom her. At first it worked then it got on his nerves and they went in circles I guess nipping each other. I took them out and stressed them for a couple of minutes and they have been doing great ever since.
I hope your sessions go better and they bond well and soon!

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