how to punish your bun?

[Briana]

I was just wondering what is a good way to punish your bun and tell them that what they did was bad? You can’t pop them on the nose like a dog or yell at them… i was thinking about getting a water squirter….

[Stickerbunny]

Shouldn’t focus on punishment for training. Positive reinforcement works better. Good behavior = reward. But, yes a spray bottle of water works for buns – just be sure you don’t SOAK the bunny, they shouldn’t have their underfur wet (and some buns can be STUBBORN and just sit there as you spray them, then you need to get up and actually redirect them if they do that, not just keep spraying like some people do with cats).

If a bunny does something bad like chews the carpet, redirect it to a proper chew toy. When they chew the chew toy, reward them. If they go back to chewing the bad thing, redirect again. Is what I mean by redirect btw.

Ways to stop a bun though are:

Verbal “no” in a firm voice, not yelling, just firm. Teach them the word first, obviously, by using the redirect method.
Loud hand clap
Thumping on the floor like an upset rabbit – though this one can just cause a thumping battle with a bunny with rabbitude
Water bottle – one spritz should be enough
Redirecting (as detailed above)

And… some bunnies are just stubborn and look at you like you’re insane no matter what you do to get them to stop. If that happens, I use time out, just because it’s the only way to get them to stop doing whatever they were doing  (they don’t really get the time out thing, but it saves my sanity from stopping them every 5 seconds).

[Bam]

I agree that positive reinforcement is better and quicker. Sometimes though a water-bottle may be practical. It’s not about punishment really though, it’s rather about making them stop and make them associate certain actions with unpleasantness. The unpleasantness must follow immediately on the unwanted action, you can never punish an animal “after the fact” if you want it to get what you mean, and you don’t want your bunny to associate unpleasantness with your person.

Dogs are way easier to train because they are bred to be interested in their people and to various extent be eager to please. It’s their most important survival skill. Rabbits are not domesticised in that way, their survival relies mostly on their ability to flee.

I have a water-bottle for when one of my bunnies gnaw at the gate that divides my apt. I don’t always have to actually use it, the sight of it is enough.

“Bad” behaviour may mean the bunny is bored. They will be less bored if they’ve stuff to do, like cardboard boxes to tear up, tunnels to run in, twigs and branches to chew, a fleece blanket to move around and rearrange. Home-redecorating is very important to bunnies.

Some stuff is too risky to try and train your bunny not to do, most importantly chewing at electrical cords. One nibble may mean death, severe injury or a very real fire-hazard.

[Beka27]

What kind of issues are you having specifically?

[bunnnnnnie!]

Another vote for not finding punishment to be very effective. Maybe because they’re prey animals, or just don’t have the brain capacity of dogs/cats? But none of my bunnies have ever seemed to understand punishment, and it never did anything to make them stop doing an unwanted behavior. I just redirect now (e.g., if they’re digging at the carpet, give them some newspaper to shred). Or I discover more and more ways to bunnyproof my apartment, LOL.

Putting them in a “time out” in their cage can help… but I think mainly just to get them to stop focusing their attention on a problem area. Then when you let them back out, they will hopefully go do something else that’s NOT naughty!

[Roberta]

Attempting to punish a rabbit is pointless… They are smart little problem solvers… They don’t accept punishment.. They catch on to rewards very quickly but if you try anything else they will get even.

[Elrohwen]

Generally punishment doesn’t work well with bunnies. As prey animals, it’s easy to scare them and set back your bonding.

With that said, I do use a spray bottle with one of my rabbits in very specific situations. She can be very bossy and chase my other rabbit, so I will spray her to make her stop. It works because she hates it, but the rabbit she’s chasing doesn’t even notice it if I accidentally hit him too. I really wouldn’t recommend it for most issues though – management is usually a better solution for common things like chewing cords or carpet.

[Sindri]

I just try to find solutions to whatever it is my rabbits are doing I don’t like. Like others have said things that are destructive could be out of bordom so getting toys and distractions can help with that. A firm no if they are heading to someplace I don’t want them to go helps or if they are doing something then and there it will sometimes work. Mine are just spoiled rotten.

[Bam]

bunnniiiiiie, I don’t think it’s so much about brain-capacity, rabbits are just not that interested in being “good” the way dogs are. But they will do stuff that is rewarding. Learning is not so much about trial and error than trial and sucsess. Dolphins and sea.lions have big brains and are highly trainable, but they don’t respond well to punishment. They readily do stuff that earns them yummy fish though.

[rayray]

I found rabbits and cats very similar in regards to training techniques. In fact, I probably get more attitude from my rabbit than I did with my cat!!
With Ziggy I find my tone of voice works well enough. Baby talk voice when he’s good and deep voice when he’s being bad. When he hears the “bad” voice he always stops what he’s doing to and goes back to his toys on around the apartment. lol!

[rissakai007]

Your bunny most likely needs some stimulation. Make sure hay, water and food are all set and if they are then find more toys! Cardboard works best for my buns. I also bought a mini hay bail once at the Agway store just for them to have fun with. They went crazy over it! Even my male who is not easily entertained.

[bunnnnnnie!]

Posted By bam on 12/12/2013 12:02 PM
bunnniiiiiie, I don’t think it’s so much about brain-capacity, rabbits are just not that interested in being “good” the way dogs are. But they will do stuff that is rewarding. Learning is not so much about trial and error than trial and sucsess. Dolphins and sea.lions have big brains and are highly trainable, but they don’t respond well to punishment. They readily do stuff that earns them yummy fish though.

I think you’re right on that!  Good explanation.

[LBJ10]

Saying “no” and redirecting is most effective. Although sometimes bunnies do just need a “time out”. I have done that with Leopold before since he can’t hear me saying “no” and it has helped. If he won’t leave something alone, then I will just remove him from the situation for a bit.

[Briana]

My bun is super spoiled as well, but the only problem i really have is him peeing on me and my now EX boyfriend but i guess my ex boyfriend wont be a problem…. but i don’t like him peeing everywhere.

[Bam]

Peeing on you and your bed is not being disobedient, it’s marking territory. He loves you and the bed has lots of your scent: He feels an urge to claim you and the bed as his possesions.

Is he neutered? Neutering may help.

Other than that, I suggest you block his access to the bed. It doesn’t necessarily need to be blocked off forever, just for a while so he forgets about it. I did that with my bunny who insisted on using my sofa as a toilet. I blocked it off, had my Bam neutered and about 6 weeks later I could un-block the sofa, Bam had by then fell out of his sofa-peing habit.

Now he can be on the sofa with me without going potty.

When he pees on you or friends, immediately remove him and put him on the floor or, preferably, in his litter-box.

And remember he’s not doing this to spite you. To him these things are just normal rabbit-declarations of affection and belonging.

[Beka27]

Ah, yes… At his age being unneutered, peeing is a common issue. You posted a thread not long ago about finding a vet. Any luck with that?

[Deleted User]

Can someone just clarify for me why the finger smack on the nose (and lets be honest – it’s not a smack, it’s a tap if that, like a pat but once and not ongoing like a smoochy pat) is a bad thing? I do this to Henry while he’s eating my bed and I say ‘no’ at the same time. I have read so many forums with heaps of fantastic advice – but realistically short of shutting him out of my room (I think that’s cruel when everyone else is in there), why is the tap so bad followed with the word no! ????? Again, I have read suggestions on diverting his attention, but I’m sure in his mind – it’s good enough for us (my bed) -‘it’s great for him’! ?????

[rissakai007]

Any physical attempt to “punish” like hitting or “finger tapping” would most likely irritate them and escalate their behavior.

[Stickerbunny]

For the same reason smacking a dog on the nose with a rolled up newspaper is not really good to do – all it teaches them is to fear the tap, not really that they are doing something wrong. With a skittish animal, it can make them fear hands altogether. If I were to do that to Stickers, she would be terrified of me, earning her trust period was tough and it’s very fragile. If she REALLY won’t listen to me, I either scoop her up and put her in time out til she calms a little or say “no” and redirect her (sometimes meaning I push her head very gently to move her attention, but never smacking/tapping/hitting) to something else.

[Muffinluv]

I know the troubles with stubborn buns. When Muffin was really little, his goal in life was to eat my rug…
He would start chewing and I would put some cardboard on his paws and say “Mmmm Yummy cardboard!”
(Not that saying that really helps, just makes you feel like you are doing something more than holding a piece of cardboard..)

That usually works but if he felt adamant about chewing the rug I would put my hand on the part of the rug in front of his nom-nomer, (His mouth, I’m just bunny-crazy don’t mind me.) it usually works.

AS A CAUTIONARY NOTE: Don’t put your hand in front of a malicious rabbits mouth. If you know your rabbit WON’T take a chunk of flesh as a side dish to revenge, then maybe do it, don’t do it with big doggies though..

Once he treated my rug like it murdered his mother, so I had to pick him up and put him in his cage. I got the stink-butt for an hour…
So yeah… I don’t have that rug anymore, for my bun, and for my sanity.

[hannaroo]

Buttons didn’t pee on me but he marked a lot and it literally stopped a week after neutering and all his other hyperactive and frustrated behaviour. I would highly recommend getting him fixed if he’s old enough.

Muffinluv, a yellow pages can help digging issues mine dig when they’re annoyed (like if u give them spinach instead of romaine or if they’ve just had their nails trimmed) and it’s literally like a punching bag for them. It does make a mess but it saves them destroying my carpets and rugs xxx

[Stickerbunny]

Posted By hannaroo on 12/13/2013 05:56 PM

Buttons didn’t pee on me but he marked a lot and it literally stopped a week after neutering and all his other hyperactive and frustrated behaviour. I would highly recommend getting him fixed if he’s old enough.

Muffinluv, a yellow pages can help digging issues mine dig when they’re annoyed (like if u give them spinach instead of romaine or if they’ve just had their nails trimmed) and it’s literally like a punching bag for them. It does make a mess but it saves them destroying my carpets and rugs xxx

Mine won’t use a phone book, but they LOVE fleece lined holes (like cat condos) to dig in. Only issue is, I have to keep relining it since they pull the fleece out

[Muffinluv]

Yeah, he has a phone book for a bed for awhile because of his “Towel Attachment” Issues… And nail clippings…… Oh dear, head bumps, thumps, and bunny-butts galore.

He hates a simple lift, I can’t imagine how much he’d hate me if I used negative reinforcement…

[Bam]

And Henry, the finger-smack the way you’re descibing it sounds to me more like a “hey!” than a punishment, i e sth to get his attention and/or make him “snap out of” whatever he’s doing. If I’ve interpreted you right, the finger-smack is not intended to be cause pain. I think that is ok, especially young animals can get very caught up in what they’re doing and shut off the entire world around them, you need a way to get their attention. But any inflicting of pain I don’t think is ok, like pulling a dog’s ears f ex.

To wham bunbun on the nose when he’s being bad is risky, either you do it too lightly so he won’t give a dam and still repeat the bad behaviour, or, if you do it hard, you may hurt the bunny and/or get the timing ever so slightly wrong so the bunny, instead of learning not to behave in that exact bad way, is taught that YOU are an abomination of a person and best avoided.

In an emergency though, if the pet is doing sth really dangerous, there’s no way to master the situation with positive reinforcement, you just need it to stop by any means. A clicker is of course useless then.

 

Edit: i feel a need to clarify what I wrote earlier, regarding training animals by inflicting pain: I don’t hunt, but I know that hunters in Sweden go to Norway and pay a good deal of money for the opportunity to use electric-collars on their hunting-dogs. It’s forbidden in Sweden. The method is somewhat reasonably acceptable when it comes to hunting-dogs, because if a hunting-dog isn’t perfectly obedient, it suffer a great risk of being accidentally shot by its owner or so else on the hunting-team. If done correctly by a professional, the method in most cases involves only one shock per dog, delivered with such timing that the dog makes the connection. If it has to be repeated, it was done inexpertly the first time.

I would never recommend anyone to use pain on any animal. Violence can of course be needed for protection against bigger animals that’s gone berzerk on you, but in such cases the animals most likely are too full of adrenaline to feel any pain.

So please be gentle with your bunbuns. I know you are, though =)

 

[Stickerbunny]

Posted By bam on 12/14/2013 06:24 AM

In an emergency though, if the pet is doing sth really dangerous, there’s no way to master the situation with positive reinforcement, you just need it to stop by any means. A clicker is of course useless then.

 

 

Yeah but in an emergency situation, a bop on the nose isn’t going to work either. It’s best to scoop and / or push the animal out of the way of whatever would cause serious injury. IE: My rabbits are about to eat through a power cord, I have to actually MOVE them to get them away from danger (though, all mine are covered for this reason). Distraction doesn’t work in emergencies, in any form.

[LBJ10]

Sometimes I will toss a soft toy at Leopold if I can’t get his attention and I don’t want to get up. LOL

It just startles him. I suppose like a spray bottle would. That’s the problem with deaf bunnies. Either find another way to get their attention or physically remove them from what they are doing. I do come up behind him when he is really engrossed in something. Hehe, that can startle him too because he doesn’t realize I’m there about to give him a little shove.

[Deleted User]

Yes! Thank you for understanding how I was trying to explain “my” ‘finger tap’ Bam. No way would I hurt my boy, and I’m sure (hope) everyone would know that – from me! My point was, it gets his immediate attention and blocks him chewing at what I don’t want him to chew on (by bed) while I am saying ‘no’ in a firm ‘your being naughty’ voice.
I don’t even smack my dogs on the nose (they aren’t that naughty – only Henry! Lol…), my tone of voice does the trick every time. And not that I expect Henry to be able to learn how my dogs do – but I feel the contact (a light tap, like a one pat stroke only) along with my disapproving voice, he may one day put the 2 together and hopefully may react to ‘my’ NO without me having to even approach him.
Oh and Stickerbunny – I know your only being concerned, and I get what your saying – but Henry barely flinches when I tap his nose, why I follow up with the loud ‘NO”! It really is to get his attention on me. I promise you, I would never cause Henry any harm (when he’s super naughty, I think about it though, ha hah!). Quite a few people train their buns, so I know they can learn (Henry has ‘learned’ everything naughty), and I feel I’ve had some success, It’s been maybe 2/3 weeks since I’ve ‘caught’ him chewing my bed….. (who’s knows, maybe he just finally got bored with it), but I hope you understand what I was trying to achieve.
Thanks everyone & ‘Briana’ – this has been another great forum!
Hey Bam, I hope your foot is on the mend?

[Stickerbunny]

I am not saying you are hurting him, I know you wouldn’t try to harm your bun. And yes, I understand the temptation to harm them when they are being super naughty … *looks at dug up carpet in every room of the house from complete lack of listening* (Stickers thinks she only has to listen if I am looking at her, not if my head is turned away… she hasn’t quite grasped the idea that training isn’t JUST so she can get treats)

It’s just not a good training method to use in general imo because if you have a bun that is scared/skittish by nature, ANY sort of physical punishment may frighten them, whether it hurts them or not. Which is why it’s not something most training methods (positive reinforcement ones anyway) will recommend doing. It isn’t going to harm your relationship with EVERY bunny, but with some it may and sometimes it’s hard to know how they will react to something, especially if the owner and the bun are kind of new to each other.

Example: My mom’s dog (great dane) isn’t scared or cares at all if she’s slapped across the snout with a piece of paper (like an envelope, not rolled up). She’s more likely to grab it and use it as a toy than flinch. But, a rescue we had was abused before she came to us and there is no way my mom could treat her the way the other dogs were – she flinched if you tried to pet her open handed, let alone if you were to actually hit her in any way, shape or form whether it was the lightest finger tap you could possibly do, or a fist, she was scared out of her wits. She never got over it and doing anything like that would have ruined her trust.

Some bunnies can be as skittish as an abused dog. So, many people prefer training methods that require no physical punishment, whether it hurts or not isn’t really the only issue. Training methods that are universally accepted need to work with all bunnies without harm to them (or their bond with their human), not just some. For my Stickers, I know a finger tap like that would set her trust back a lot. She’s super skittish and it’s almost like having a wild animal in the house, rather than a pet, because her trust is so shaky. She also has a HUGE attitude problem and if she gets scared/mad, I am likely to lose a finger trying to do that. lol Powder? Probably wouldn’t care anymore than your Henry does, he’ll let me do anything to him and he doesn’t spook about anything (which makes getting his attention really tough when he’s being bad, silly rabbit).

I’ve worked a lot with abused animals and a lot of owners don’t really realize they can’t act the same way with the more scared ones as they do with the more confident ones. So, I just am always very cautious when people recommend any form of physical punishment to animals. To some, it won’t do a thing since you aren’t actually inflicting pain. To others, it could traumatize them and then they associate that with your hands and … well, it’s very bad for a scared animal to associate scary things with a human’s hands, especially when we need to do maintenance etc. A water bottle at least they associate the bad stuff with the bottle. Just like some parrot owners believe in “beak wrestling” to train a bird not to bite – it doesn’t hurt them, but that can backfire and cause the birds to bite even more if they respond negatively to it.

[Deleted User]

I’m not suggesting for one second Stickerbunny that you thought I would hurt my Henry – ‘I know’ that ‘you know’ me better (through other forums), but now that you have given me an insight into the reaction of an abused animal (how horrifying) I understand why your so against anything than can be interpreted as punishment. As I said, ‘I was after Henry’s attention’ while teaching him ‘no’. And if I thought he cared – I would never do it! He doesn’t – trust me! (Dam bunny!). Henry is the ‘boss’ of our home, us, the dogs! (How pathetic – we should be ashamed). I can do everything with Henry, except pick him up. He plays tag with my dogs, and even when they bark as someone approaches the front door, he just lays there as if to say “Yer, who is it?”. He knows he is protected. (Bloody bunny).
Not that I have ever taken in a rescued animal (I had 4 dogs, down to 3) but have rescued some (taken to the vet and then moved on to wildlife parks or set free again), but kept a disabled lorikeet (parrot) that I ‘wouldn’t’ return to the owner, but let him be except when he got out of his cage??? and found him on the floor (cause he couldn’t fly) the next morning and had to pick him up – he bit the crap out of me, but that was ok. (that was what I was telling myself as I rinsed the blood off, lol…). I knew he loved us, he was just scared. “I’ can’t go to the ‘pound’ (RSPCA – as it is known here in Australia) cause I would bring them all home – and spend the rest of my time imagining the cruelty that has been inflicted on them. I can’t even watch some pet/animal show’s – how silly! I’m not super stupid looking to take down everything animal – I’m just a super sook who gets your appreciation of everything kind. Why I knew you weren’t having a go at ‘me’.

[Bam]

Stickerbunny, I just meant that in an emergency, positive reinforcement is not the metod of choice. People are apt to riducule those who advocate “soft” metods like clicker- training because the metod is useless in emergencies. But it was never meant for use in such situations. I totally agree removing the bunny is the best thing to do if there’s danger.

 

AndHenry, my foot is slowly healing, thank you for asking. Just 5,5 weeks more in the air-cast =)

[Priya]

I have a spray bottle I use to mist my plants and Binky, my bunny when he’s being a troublemaker. Took me a while to make him understand what isn’t allowed but every time he sees the bottle now, he stops. Almost always. Other times he just sits there looking at me like “I don’t care! Mist me all you want!” That’s when I have to nicely make him go the other way or chase him or throw a soft thing at him to deter (depending on distance and situation).

He isn’t fixed yet so has that spraying issue going on…he loves catching me by surprise in the kitchen when I am busy. So I keep the bottle there…and mist him whenever he gets too close. Binky also picked up this chewing habit and I used that misting technique to stop him from doing it anymore. Haven’t chewed on anything for months now. He runs the other way when he sees me with the bottle..so it works! It’s not punishment but I like to think of it as a disciplinary step. And when he is being bad (very rare but he does go nuts sometimes..spraying all over), I pick him up and put him inside his cage. It calms him down. He is a good bunny though…very loving and entertaining. I love him so much..

[Deleted User]

See the spray bottle just won’t work for me (even though I think it’s the best idea ever) cause I’m just all over the place with my personal situation at home (unless someone has invented something I can hang from around my neck, otherwise I would need 2 or 3 at the ready placed in every room, lol). Anyhow, just wanted to let you know, ‘my thing’ may have worked for ‘me’? Late this morning I caught Henry about to indulge in the dry dog food again, (it’s only inside under supervision cause of the ants outside) and cause I was a few feet away, without thinking I shouted NO and he lifted his head and looked straight at me! I then repeated NO again firmly, and he turned away from it and then hopped away. WOW! Don’t get me wrong, I’m not kidding myself, I’ll wait to do it again and see how he reacts – but gee, how fantastic if he has learned my NO? Time will tell, which shouldn’t take to long – he’s so naughty, ha ha hah!
5 & 1/2 weeks ‘more’ in the cast Bam – bugga! And sorry Briana, for throwing my query into the mix on your forum. But it’s good that we both got to learn. Cheers.

[Bam]

AndHenry, my bunny Yohio has also started to respond to “NO”. The other day he jumped up near to where the router is, and although all cords are protected with plastic tubing, I’m not comfortable with having him up there. A water-bottle is not ideal among electric wiring, so I said NO! And Yohio stopped and starred at me – then jumped back down to the floor and he’s not been up there since.

But this of course only works when I’m around to stop him. Most animals seem to be like that. I can tell my dog NO when I see she’s about to steal a piece of kale/cabbage, but if I’m not around, she’ll steal all veggies available. Lately she’s added romaine to her diet =/

[Deleted User]

Oh Bam, your bloody dog! Lettuce! (Romaine is lettuce? I think it’s called something different here?). Gives me a laugh everytime – love it!
Gee, maybe the NO word will work with Henry after all? We’ll see…. like I said, this is the first time he has reacted to my NO without me touching/tapping him. (Though, I felt bad for my dogs this morning – they all looked at me as if to say “what did I do – I didn’t do anything wrong”, poor babies, ha hah). They know to react to my ‘not happy voice’, and I want Henry to learn the same? Oh, and when I’m not around, the dog food goes up onto the bench. He just goes to the dog food when he runs out of pellets (1/4 cup daily – be dammed if he’s gonna eat the hay!). Gosh Henry is a brat!

[Priya]

Oh yeah..I am noticing Binky is responding to “NO” as well. Took me around 9 months but it’s working.

My apartment is small and it’s an open concept living/dining/kitchen…so the bottle is always nearby. He was soooo bad with the spraying that we had to make sure we’re done with work before he’s let out. Because once he is out and you get off the sofa, you are GUARANTEED to be peed on. That has greatly reduced (still happens though) thanks to my water bottle, firm behaviour (I love him but just can’t let him loose like a canon) and constantly yelling “NO”, “GET OFF”, “GET OUT”, DON’T COME IN”. When he listens, I give him head and nose rubs. Or a piece of fruit or carrot. He’s putting the 2 together now.

 Also, most of the time when he’s being bad, I figured that it’s because he wants attention. Binky is really like a kid. He wants attention, one-on-one playtime and affection. He doesn’t have a buddy, doesn’t play with toys so newspapers and humans are his toys and friends. So I give him more attention and lots more head rubs and talk to him softly. This paired with the bottle have calmed him down a lot.

 

 

[Priya]

Oh yeah..I am noticing Binky is responding to “NO” as well. Took me around 9 months but it’s working.

My apartment is small and it’s an open concept living/dining/kitchen…so the bottle is always nearby. He was soooo bad with the sprang that we had to make sure we’re done with work before he’s let out. Because once he is out and you get off the sofa, you are GUARANTEED to be peed on. That has greatly reduced (still happens though) thanks to my water bottle, firm behaviour (I love him but just can’t let him loose like a canon) and constantly yelling “NO”, “GET OFF”, “GET OUT”, DON’T COME IN”. When he listens, I give him head and nose rubs. Or a piece of fruit or carrot. He’s putting the 2 together now.

[Author]

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