2 Mystery Illnesses

[Lightchick]

Hello,

I haven’t been active for awhile.  Please, Beka, K&K, Cassie, RabbitPam, I hope you remember and can help..

I joined this site when I adopted my first bunny Lizzy.  And then 2 months later I found  Robbie in a park, and the two of them became bonded without my even trying.

2 years ago, I discovered Robbie was losing weight.  I didn’t even notice it, because he had so much fluff, and he was active, and normal, and ran around..  And then one day after Christmas, I picked him up…and there was no weight.  At all.  So I took him to the most knowledgeable vet in So Cal, who was our regular vet…and he was dead in a week.  She said it looked like he had “cow-pie” syndrome, but he was a grey agouti, and she’d never seen that illness in anything other than an English spot, so it didn’t make any sense…

A few months later, I bonded Robbie’s widow, my baby Lizzy, with another pair of my bunnies, Fred and George.  She took to it fine.  They were ok for about a year, and then shortly before I married my now-husband, Fred died in convulsions in my arms in the middle of the night.  He had always had stomach/stasis issues. It was dreadful, but not completely unexpected.

But my Lizzy had never been sick.  Ever.  And 3 days after Fred passed, my then-fiancé woke up to find her dead.  Just dead.  No symptoms.  No issues.  Just gone.  And no, I assure you that she wasn’t mourning Fred.  Robbie was the love of her life, and she tolerated Fred, but she was binkying and jumping in my lap the night she died. She was fine.

We took her to the vet, who said her kidneys had failed.  And that this happens, often with no warning. I was thinking, (Although I was 2 weeks out from my wedding, and made my fiancé deal with all of this because I was sobbing in a corner like a crazy person, and not paying any attention to anything), that there must be some warning sign.  The vet said, sometimes they drink more water.

I guess my major question is:  I have the best vet in southern California.  I’m not a new bunny owner, and I’m doing everything right.  Has anyone else every heard of “cowpie syndrome,” especially NOT in an English Spot bunny?  And does anybody know anything about kidney failure happening with little to no warning???

And I guess I ask this now, because Fred’s brother, George, the lone survivor of the Lizzy-Robbie-Fred-George grouping is now bonded with another pair, Peko and Holly.  And Holly blew through an entire dish of water in 6 hours.  And the vet said the only possible sign of kidney failure in bunnies is slightly excellerated intakes of water.

And I obviously trust nobody at this point. 

Please, thoughts?

Those who remember us, thanks for your help..

Chrissie, aka Lightchick

[MimzMum]

Hello Chrissie! I remember you!
I’m so sorry such sad news returns to you us. :'(

But first, congratulations on your wedding!

Secondly, I am so sorry for the losses of Lizzie, Robbie and Fred. My Lord, I am devastated just reading this. I’ve often thought about you and Lizzie and Robbie and wondered how you were.
I would be looking into something viral honestly. Or possibly a poisonous agent. That your other bunny is drinking more water is something worth checking out, maybe running some urine/blood tests if you can. It could be something as simple as a bladder infection causing this, but better safe than sorry.

There may be something in your home making them ill, unless of course they were older rabbits, we know they can pass very quickly as they age with no apparent warning. That Fred had convulsions is a concern. Had he ever had them before?
Since Robbie was a former wildie, he could’ve been a carrier of something that may have infected the other bunnies. It could possibly still be in the home in some way or form: something like e. cuniculi which is hard to eradicate and about 50% of house rabbits carry it.

Kidney failure to my knowledge is a long-drawn out process. You often see the animal thinning and failing before your eyes for a period of time. I have experience of it in one of my Bridge dogs, he just wasted away over a month or so.
I don’t know about megacolon (cow-pile syndrome) in an agouti, but I suppose it is possible. How were Robbie’s eliminations as he got thinner? Did his eating patterns change? Do your bunnies get regular dentals and did they have any issues with anesthesia? Are there any other symptoms that you can think of?

Sorry to fire so many questions. Vets can be very good but if they’re not exotics specialized they can miss things in bunnies. I will scout around and see if there’s anything I can find to help, but surely one of the FL’s will have a better idea than I do about what is going on. Strongly suspect a toxin or viral agent though.

Do the bunnies free range? Do they eat baseboards or anything? Someplace they could get into (lead) paint? How old is your house?

I hope something can be found to help out Holly and hopefully help keep her and George and Peko well. I can well understand the worry that must be plaguing you. I’m sorry, I wish I had something concrete to help with, but I’m just throwing out the first things that come to my mind.

I do want to welcome you back to BB and I hope that we can see you around more often. I’ve missed you.

[Lightchick]

Oh, Mimz, I’m so glad to hear from you!! I hope you and the brood up there in the Alaskan wild are good! I feel like you lost a dear pup around the time I faded out of this site…I’m so sorry for you and your pup..

Our vet, like I said, is the premier rabbit vet in southern California. All of the local rescues use her. She is very sweet, and her ONLY personal pets are rabbits.

Which makes it a gazillion times more frustrating when there’s no good answer about our bunnies.

Fred had been in to the vet a bunch for stasis. She nursed him back from the verge of death at least 3 times.

But Robbie…she had no answer about him. And there was no sign, other than his weight loss. Which I will feel guilty about not noticing until the end of my days. But he was my stately old man, and he acted normal, and didn’t ask to be picked up and tossed around..

And my Lizzy, my dear wonderful Lizzy, my princess…She had been in for her annual, and checked out as normal. She didn’t do anything crazy. And then one day she was dead. The Dr gave us the water-consumption-thing as a far-fetched thing to look for, but it was never anything she exhibited that we saw…

But now we are paranoid, and our Holly seems to be sucking up water, so I’m nervous..

[MimzMum]

I’m so sorry, it must be so frustrating. I would definitely get bloods done on Holly then, if only to find out what it’s not. Is she any good with being poked? (I know Mimzy isn’t, they still practically have to order a straitjacket for him.)

If it was in the first part of 2010, yes, we lost our dear Shadow. He was the most amazing dog. He passed in March and I swore I’d never get another…now we have two more: a Yorkie (mine) and a border collie/corgi mix (hubby’s). Mimzy, Pip and Fiver are still here, but Mimzy got head tilt a year and a half ago. It took 6 months to get him back to some semblance of normal. He’s still got a 45-90 degree tilt, but plucky enough to give me starch when he wants to.

And within a year we should be moving back to central California. OH has had enough of winter in Alaska. Going to be interesting! 0_0

[jerseygirl]

Equally devastated.
I knew from Cassie that Robbie had passed but not Fred and Lizzie. LC, I’m so sorry.
Binky free beautiful babies! You were so loved.

Im so saddened so I’ll revisit this thread later. I can say tho that I have heard of CWP syndrome afflicting non-spotted bunnies. I don’t think it’s exclusive to English spot breed nor rabbits of a certain colouration.

[MimzMum]

Hi again, LC.
Okay, I did a little Googling and found the following links. I hope something in them can help you find some answers.

http://www.petmd.com/rabbit/conditions/digestive/c_rb_cachexia

http://www.rabbitnetwork.org/articles/weightloss.shtml

http://www.petmd.com/rabbit/conditions/digestive/c_rb_weight_loss#.Uprqi-KmYwc

http://www.petmd.com/rabbit/conditions/urinary/c_rb_polyuria_polydipsia

http://www.rabbitsonline.net/f27/sudden-onset-lethargy-excessive-water-consumption-60720/

I included the last link because of the additional symptoms…you didn’t mention if Holly is lethargic at all but there is still a suspicion of kidney problems in that particular thread. In case there is any similarity in how all three bunnies were acting. If you’ve already seen any of these, I apologise for doubling up.

Thinking of you and the bunnies. xx

[Sarita]

I have had kidney failure in a rabbit and it was not a long drawn out process at all….he went very quickly – he would not eat and only would sleep and the only reason he stayed alive was because I gave him sub-q fluids. He had been showing some signs of lethargy and such but he did go quick.

I imagine you see a very rabbit knowledgeable vet and if she cannot tell you then it’s just guessing and that is not helpful for you. There is still much to learn about rabbit illnesses and rabbit care since they just aren’t studied in vet school and vet’s who see rabbits are still learning.

I’m very sorry about your losses – it’s hard when they go so fast and so close together. I know you are just looking for some closure.

[jerseygirl]

I think I remember reading (or was told?) one time that renal failure is hard to detect even with bloodwork. Some of the indicators don’t show until end stages or something like that? Don’t quote me though! Your vet can confirm whether that’s right or not.

Both chronic and acute renal failure is common in rabbits. The latter can be concurrent with other disease that’s in the final stages but the renal failure being the actual cause of death.
Did you have a post mortem examine done on Lizzie or was it the vets best guess at what happened?

Also, what made your vet suspect cow poop syndrome with Robbie?

With Holly, this is a new development? Is she continually drinking an increased amount?

[LittlePuffyTail]

Hi, Lightchick!

I’m sorry I don’t have any helpful advice but I just want to offer my condolences on the loss of your bunnies. I remember when you found Robbie.

I’m glad to hear from you. I just wish it was under happier circumstances.

Congrats on your wedding!

[Author]

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