Not again! My poor Bella!

[LongEaredLions]

As you know, Bella had pasturella a few months back. The vet gave her cipro, and she seemed better. Then I posted a topic about how I thought she had tooth problems, and she went to the vet again. She got her front teeth trimmed, and she seemed better for a while, but now she is ill again. Today I noticed she has a runny nose and eye discharge, and her front teeth are back to how they were before the vets.I think her back molars may be overgrown and that could be causing the runny nose/eyes. She shows the classic symptoms of molar issues (picking up food then dropping it, weight loss, etc) in addition, she is sneezing and feels very bony. She hasn’t been as active over the last few days, but I thought that that was because she was taking advantage of the fact that Lionel has started grooming her more. So what do you guys think? We will be going to the vet as soon as possible, should I ask for a jaw X-ray? Anything else? I am so worried for my little fluffbutt! 

[jerseygirl]

Have they looked at her teeth under sedation?
If you have that done, they can go ahead and trim them at the time.

Unfortunately, teeth problems and pasteurella infection are chronic conditions that you just have to keep managing.
{{{Bella}}} I hope they can get her more comfortable.

If you have cipro left, you could always ring to see if okay to start her back on it prior to the appointment.

[LongEaredLions]

Thanks for the reply.
I know that pasturella is chronic, but you can treat to remove the symptoms, right?
Is it possible that her teeth are not a chronic issue? I don’t think she has malocclusion because her toofers are aligned perfectly, they just are too long. She has never had any tooth problems before. She didn’t really like this last batch of hay, could that be the cause?

[Sarita]

They symptoms are treatable.

I think if she is having dental issues at her age then it is due to malocclusion which is most likely genetic. That sounds especially true if those inscisor teeth are problematic which most likely means the molars will be too.

[LongEaredLions]

Darn. I was hoping it was just the hay….
Oh well, I am going to call the vet in a few hours to see when I can bring her in and I will see what the vet says. Thanks for the help. When we go to the vet, could we get a head X-ray instead of sedating her to look at the teeth? I would rather not sedate her if we don’t need to. If she does have malocclusion, how often will the teeth need to be trimmed and is their anything we can do to spread that time out?

[Sarita]

She may still need to be sedated to do a proper head x-ray if that is what is needed. I would just discuss with the vet your concerns.

As far as dental trims it really just depends….I usually end up doing dental trims (and it’s been true of all my rabbits with dental problems) anywhere from 4 weeks to 3 months….some people’s rabbits can wait more so it really does vary depending.

For the incisors the only possibility of it not being ongoing is to remove them. With the molars, sometimes hay will help but honestly it’s not a cure and it doesn’t always spread out the time.

I would say though that it is good to a very thorough dental exam and x-rays too just to truly see what you may be dealing with if the vet believes it a dental problem.

[Starah]

Sorry to hear that Bella isn’t well.
If it is her molars causing a problem then unfortunately it is likely to be genetic. My first bunny, Sooty, had genetic problems with his molars which required him to have them filed down under general anaesthetic throughout his life. If I remember correctly (I was ten when we got him) he didn’t have to go in very often as a baby, but as he got older (I was twenty when he passed) we were taking him in roughly every four to six months. Once we knew that was the problem though it became fairly routine and we were able to get him in before it became a problem (before he stopped eating etc) and he would bounce back almost immediately after surgery. It is a horrible thing to go through, I always worried about him being under anaesthetic so often, but he lived to a grand age of ten and was always heathy other than that.

Unfortunately for Sooty though, his diet never had an impact on his teeth – he adored hay and would happily chomp away on that all day (I doubt he’d have noticed if we didn’t give him veg or pellets, but if he wanted more hay he’d let you know straight away!) yet the amount of hay he ate never seemed to have and effect on his teeth.

I hope all goes well for Bella, thinking of you

[LongEaredLions]

This is scaring me… She hates the vet and I don’t want her to have to go through all this. She is perfectly happy, I don’t want to have to put her through this. She has never had tooth issues before, why does she now? My poor baby.

[Starah]

I know how awful it feels right now, but try not to panic until you know what you’re dealing with.
I know you said you’re taking her to the vets ASAP, so wait until you have a diagnosis or you’ll drive yourself crazy with ‘what ifs’.
It may be something completely different. But if it is the same as what Sooty suffered with, you just learn to cope with it. Honestly Sooty was so good with anaesthetic once he’d had it a few times, he just adapted. He was always happy otherwise!

In the meantime, if you’re concerned about Bella’s eating and drinking you could try and get some critical care for her? If it’s her teeth giving her trouble then it’s likely she’s not eating because it hurts. After we found out about Sooty’s teeth we always had critical care on standby so we always had that back up just in case.

Big bunny hugs xx

[LongEaredLions]

Thanks everybody for the vibes and kind words!
Ughhh! I called the vet, (who passed all the tests I gave him before Bella’s spay) and he says it’s not possible to trim the molars of a rabbit. So now I have to find another vet. I think I found a good one though, it is an all exotics vet, 2hrs from home(my old vet was 15 min). I am going to schedule an appointment tommarow.
Good news is Bella can still eat pellets and drink water, she will eat veggies if I cut them up tiny(unfortonatly she won’t eat hay).

[Starah]

Hey, I spoke to my Mum about Bella, since she remembers in much more detail about the early stages of Sooty’s dental problems than I do. She said it definitely was his molars which were the problem and they were routinely filed down in surgery, so I think a second opinion is important!
She also said that Sooty really didn’t too well after his first couple of surgeries and she talked to the vet about it so the next time he was in they used a different anaesthetic, so if Bella does have to go under and doesn’t cope too well there may be the option to ask for different anaesthetic. (I’m in the UK, I don’t know if different anaesthetics are used elsewhere)

Best of luck for you and Bella

[Sarita]

I wouldn’t exactly call this is a surgery though. Rabbits are put under anesthesia with isoflurane (my vet uses a mask) and once they are under then she files their molars.

In the Diet & Care Forum pinned at the top is a topic called “Rabbit Dental Procedure” Video that you should watch so you understand what the procedure is like.

I can tell you that i have had many rabbits and the majority have undergone dental procedures (better word than surgery in my opinion) many times including my rabbit Bobby who is about 5 years old and 1.5 pounds – he gets a dental trim about every 3 months.

[LongEaredLions]

Still trying to get the vet situations sorted out. I called the new vet and was shocked to hear that just an office visit is more than 2x the cost of my old vet($95). Can’t even emagine what the producure will cost, there goes that new iPhone I was about to get…oh well, bunnies come first. The vet is a specialist in small animals, is there an approx amount that I can expect the producure to cost? And how long can she wait while I get this sorted out? I will try to get her in around Tuesday, as that is when the good rabbit vet is in, but if that is too long, I will just go for the vet that is “experienced” in rabbits but not the official rabbit vet.

[BinkyBunny]

I’m sorry that that you had to look for a new vet. So strange the the response was that a rabbits teeth can’t be trimmed. I can understand a vet saying that they dont have enough experience to trim but to say that its not possible is baffling.  

As far as the malloclusion not showing up before, sometimes they do show as a bunny ages.  Also the growth of their teeth is continuous but the speed of it can go it spurts.  And so things can be fine for awhile and then a growth spurt can push issues into overdrive.  

My bunny Rucy had just a slight malloclusion. She had to have her front teeth trimmed very rarely but spurs on her molars developed a few times a year. Though it was no fun a couple of days after the trim as her teeth were sore (we gave pain meds) she quickly bounced back and lived a fun long life.  She also had a tendency to develop infections at the roots and I could usually try and catch it early as he jaw line would reveal to the touch a growing bump along the jaw line. I checked her jaw line often so I could recognize anything new.

In Rudy’s case as she got into her senior years I actually had to get her teeth trimmed less. Could be that aging Rabbits teeth may grow slower.  However this is very individual and others find they have to trim incisors and shave molar spurs more often.

I know its not easy and it can be expensive. Talk to your vet about doing a payment plan or if your able, assign a credit card vet care and make payments that way.

Hope the new vet works out.  Sometimes a vet that may be more expensive may save you in the long run if they are very experienced in rabbits as they may get to the solution quicker.

[LongEaredLions]

Thanks BB and everybody! I am so glad we are able to provide for her and have the money, even if that means no new iPhone for me right now. She is my world. Thank you guys for the help, I feel much better with the support of everyone here who cares so much about bunnies. I will take her to the good rabbit vet, it will be expensive but I guess this vet is one of the best bunny vets in my state. Will keep u guys updated on her.

[LongEaredLions]

Took her in today. They did an X-ray, and her back teeth are fine?!?!? I thought the molars would be bad if the insisors were bad? Is it possible that only her front teeth are mallocluded? That would be great. Anyway, she is home now

[jerseygirl]

They did a visual check of her molars too? Can see if the occlude despite the incisor malocclusion?
That would be a relief if they’re not an issue! It would only be a matter of incisor trims then and they often don’t even need to sedate for that. They can be removed also and rabbits do just fine without them.

What did they say about the runny nose and eye?
The incisor roots can go back a long way and start to impinge on the nasal ducts. How were they looking in the X-ray?

[LongEaredLions]

Yep, they figured since she was already half asleep for the X-ray, they just looked at her teeth visually too.
They showed me the X-ray and what was a problem and what was not and the roots looked just fine.
The vets thought that the nose/eye discharge were caused by her pasturella that may have returned because of the stress caused by the teeth problems/not eating so they did another C&S test and prescribed her some more cipro.

I would rather not get her teeth removed, could I just take her in once in a while for a trim? Would that cause any long-term effects?

Sorry for asking so many questions…. Haha
Thanks for all the help!

[Starah]

So glad to hear that Bella’s teeth are fine!
I hope the meds she’s been given help her out and she will be binkying around in no time!
Xxx

[jerseygirl]

I would rather not get her teeth removed, could I just take her in once in a while for a trim?

Of course. I dont see why not. Especially if they’re not causing issues with the molars at the moment. You can always quiz the vet about it next time.

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