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The subject of intentional breeding or meat rabbits is prohibited. The answers provided on this board are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet.  It is your responsibility to assess the information being given and seek professional advice/second opinion from your veterinarian and/or qualified behaviorist.

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Forum BEHAVIOR Tan Behaviors – Building a Relationship

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    • tanlover14
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        A lot of you have been here since I got my first rabbits, my Tans.  So many of you are also aware of the continious ups and downs I have had with them, their behaviors, and the changes and hardships of trying to have successful, meaningful relationships with them. I know the belief, especially here on BB about the breed not determining personality, is very strong.  But I think I will always believe (whether true or not) that my Tans are far from ordinary rabbits.  They have very strong dominant personalities and they aren’t afraid to use them.  They quite often have challenged my boyfriend and I to the ends of the earth and back and have been known to give you a nice bloody bite that later turns into a scar if you do something they don’t approve of.  Unfortunately, there are no rabbit behavior classes like they have for dogs or my Tans would have been enrolled before they had spent their first full week at our home!   Haha!  

        Due to their very dominant personalities – much of the traditional ways of dealing with rabbits has never worked successfully.  We have tried almost everything when it comes to fixing their behaviors.  I say almost because others will probably always have ideas but everyone I know personally has run out of ideas on how to handle these little crazies.  They simply put – rule the house.

        We had never handled them much – following the traditional “rabbits don’t like to be picked up” and made it a point not to pick them up or do anything to stress them out.  This worked well but made it impossible to do nail trimmings.  We began handling them ONLY during nail trimmings and then one day we had an explosion in our condo.  It was EXTREMELY difficult to get ahold of my Tans with the room full of smoke and the building fire alarm ringing so loudly.  It was really in that moment that I felt I needed to be able to handle (and calm) my Tans.  Whenever we picked them up, they turned very aggressive.  Biting and clawing at us.  Not aggression because they’re mean – but because they were so freaked out by being handled and it’s understandable. 

        I’ve also had a problem with getting them not to go into aggressive attitudes and breakdowns about small things.  I never even knew what caused some of these behaviors and sometimes they would disappear quickly and sometimes not.  But I felt a lot of these things combined was stressing out and negatively affecting my relationships with them. 

        So recently I made the decision to try and work with them more in a positve manner.  I’ve only done this with Fleury so far.  As I can’t handle all three attitudes and emotions at once and really just want to work with them one-by-one so I can give them my full attention and time.  I started by bringing Fleury to “hang” out with me on the couch.  In the beginning – the hanging out was him digging and biting every blanket and piece of the couch he could find in anger.  As the days went on he began to calm down.  I’ve been trying to make it important to only let positive things happen while I’m working with him.  I watch his reactions and behaviors insanely close and whenever he tries to bite me, I quickly just pet him with a little pressure so he can’t get his head around to bite me or I try and distract him with something else.  It has seemed to work and even when he managed to bite me a few times, I let it go.  I didn’t react and just kept talking sweetly and “hanging” with my boy.  

        He had begun to spend more time with me in my lap and not so much off to the side on the couch by himself as I kept interjecting myself into whatever he was doing the more comfortable I thought he was becoming. 

         

        SO tonight I finally tried something new… and I had such a positive reaction with him.  For the first time in my entire life (and his), Fleury was snuggled up into my arm letting me pet him, he cleaned his paws while sitting on my lap, and dug around into my clothes a bit but nothing aggressive.  His reactions and behaviors were so incredibly positive and I’ve never felt so happy about my relationship with him.  I feel like I’m finally beginning to accomplish something with him.  And have the confidence I can do the same with the others.

         

        Here’s a picture of the big moment – I did about 15 minutes with him only on my lap.  But I’m soooooooo happy!

         

        He was completely snuggled up in my arms, letting me pet him.  the picture is terrible but I was at my computer and snapped it as quickly as I could using Photo Booth in case he moved so the picture is really bad quality… but it seems to speak a million words in the way I’ve managed to come and build a relationship with him!  

         

         


      • Trishh
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          How do you usually try to pick him up? Some bunnies have a way they like to be held and if they’re not held like that then they could “flip out”.
          It’s not recommended to pick a bunny up by the scruff of their neck but if you HAVE to get them grab them gently but make sure you aren’t holding them like that for long.
          How long have you had him and is he neutered? Was he an outside bunny before you got him?


        • tanlover14
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            I’ve tried every way in the book – they are aggressive because they DESPISE being held but Fleury has gotten much better with slow practice. I do volunteer work with two rescues so I’ve literally tried about every single way you could pick him up, including bunny burritos.

            I never ever pick them up by the scruff of the neck, my hands are always holding their feet and making sure they are secure against my chest.

            I’ve had him for over a year since he was 8 weeks old. He was neutered about a year and a month ago so it’s definitely not hormones. If you google Tan rabbits, it’s very common for Tans to be this hyper and … dominant would be an appropriate word I suppose. He’s bonded to four other bunnies (two of whom are his siblings) and some of his aggressive behaviors towards us (humans) have gone along with bonding. So SOME of it has been due to that. But my Tans have VERY very dominant personalities. I’ve always called them my Terrible Tans.


          • tanlover14
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              I’ll add his brother and sister are EXACTLY the same way.


            • Trishh
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                Ohh alright I see now! (:
                I’m not sure what to advise you to do sense he’s already neutered, you’ve had him so long and it’s common for his breed.
                Maybe try setting him on the couch or bed with you and let him wonder on them and come to you then pet him, that’s what I do with mine sometimes. Or next time you try and hold him, hold him like a sack of potatoes with your hand underneath/between the front of him and his legs then his back end tucked between your elbow and side. And give him treats when he lets you hold him or if he comes and sits on you.


              • LBJ10
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                  Have you tried bribery? This was how we got Leopold to tolerate being held. He gets picked up, he gets some banana. Since you have tried everything, I’m sure you’ve probably tried it already. If you are getting them to get in your lap though, I suppose it doesn’t hurt if they get a treat while they are there.


                • tanlover14
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                    That’s what I have been attempting to do – with very good luck! He’s coming around so much – I’m incredibly proud of him. Some of the older members know how much trouble I’ve had with my little brats in the past. It’s hysterical though. I also have two Lionheads who are COMPLETELY opposite. They LOVE cuddles and the only time they nip you is if you’re holding them and they have to go to the bathroom. I literally have both ends of the spectrum.


                  • Baxter n Boos Mom
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                      Wow TL – That is awesome and amazing progress. Please keep us posted on how the same process works with the other Tans. My buns have never sat in may lap – but not nearly as aggressive as your tans…so I’m hopeful that I may get there one day too 🙂


                    • tanlover14
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                        I’m really not sure how the other two will do! Fleury has always been the more social of the three. Fleury doesn’t mind as much if he is separated from the others but the other two can get really stressed about it so it’s going to be figuring out how to deal with their stress in a positive way. Fleury was VERY anxious the first few days but got much better and became relaxed over time.

                        It’s always been such a fine line you walk though… when something becomes not worth the effort because you think the stress is doing more harm than good OR if you feel like you’re accomplishing something despite them being somewhat stressed. I will have to give them lots of praise for sure.

                        I hate how stressed they get when you move them or do something with them handling wise though. It really bothers me that it scares them that much but I’ve noticed a significant difference in how the handling affects Fleury now so hopefully it can help the other two also!


                      • Dymii
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                          Tan- That first post was a great story that gives me hope for my stubborn little bun. He hates being held but isn’t so aggressive as yours! My vet told me to lay down a towel on the floor with a treat in the middle. When he goes to the treat, go and slowly pet him so he stays calm, then wrap the rest of the towel around him in a bunny burrito. Keep petting him and trying to keep him calm, then lower yourself down so your belly is pressing against his spine, then put your hands under all 4 feet and pick him up *a little*. Just hold him until he is calm, and keep holding him. If you have a free hand, stroke his head and reassure him.
                          I never thought it would work.
                          But last time we gave Sprinkles a bath, we quickly put him in my lap on the towel so I could try to dry him off some and I did like the vet said, and he stayed calm. It was like a miracle to me. I held him for longer than necessary I’m sure then let him go so he could re-clean himself. Since then I’ve been trying to just be on the floor with him and pet him and be close to him.

                          If your buns stress about being separated, maybe you could try something like this. Do they let you pet them much? Put treats on the floor close to each other and pet both of them for a while.

                          That’s the best I’ve got really, good luck!


                        • NuggetBuns
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                            Congratulations Tanlover! It’s the best feeling in the world when you can get close to your bunny… it’s like you’ve advanced to a new level in your relationship =D I hope you make progress with your other two tans! Good luck and keep us updated!


                          • Sarita
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                              I’ve had to deal with one super aggressive rabbit in my life – Pepe – he was a very smart rabbit and what seemed to make him the most happy was freedom – he did not do well caged. Once he got freedom he was so much easier to deal with – he would let me pet him and seemed genuinely to love the freedom – he would binky and flop which he never did caged. I would say though that he would still bite and nip – that never went away.

                              I’ll admit, I don’t know a darn thing about Tans but I have to wonder if perhaps part of the dynamics that you have with this dominant behavior may be due to being part of a crowd. Might be hard to know since they’ve always (for the most part) been bonded.

                              I do suspect that with any rabbit breed you may not find much out on-line concerning their temperaments like you would for dog breeds because there just isn’t enough info out there concerning rabbit breed temperaments.

                              Sounds like you’ve made some progress with Fleury.


                            • jerseygirl
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                                So glad to have found this update! I was thinking to bump your other thread about Fleury.

                                Fantastic effort TL!

                                I hate how stressed they get when you move them or do something with them handling wise though. It really bothers me that it scares them that much but I’ve noticed a significant difference in how the handling affects Fleury now so hopefully it can help the other two also!

                                I’m afraid that’s just hard wired and will probably wont go away completely. It’s probably more noticeable in the Tans, being that they’re so switched on and go go go. What you might start to see though is the effects of this flight/fight response not hang around as long. They might recover quicker from that initial fright.


                              • tanlover14
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                                  Sigh, Sarita. It disappoints me that freedom seemed to do the trick with Pepe. Not disappointed that it helped Pepe but because the BF and I have discussed free-roaming but neither of us really know how to make it possible with the Tans. Simba and Nora are so perfect with all of their habits. Chewing, litter box, everything. Neither of them ever chews or attempts to destroy anything when they’re out but the Tans are a whole different story. I would literally die of happiness if it were ever possible to free roam in the future. I do have to admit a lot of their issues could be from being in such a large group – they’ve always been in a rather large group, never less than three. And the Tans particularly have always built off from each others behaviors and attitudes. It could also be due to the fact that they’re siblings that they have such similarly strong personalities. I know their parents were the same way from talking to the breeder. But then again… so many people say the same things about their other Tans but sometimes I wonder if it’s due to their hyperactive behaviors. If your bunny is constantly on the go, it’s a pretty big given he’s going to get into everything because it can be very difficult to keep them entertained! Haha! I do love the heck out of them though even if they can be so difficult for me to understand!

                                  Jersey – I definitely agree with what you’re saying. I never expected it to go away but it really does upset me that when handled at all (especially Tanger) they have such horrible breakdowns about it. Fleury one time even yelped and was breathing so hard. It’s distressing to us when they get so upset also. And as you know from previous posts, the relationship with them can be so off and on! Typically me having no idea whats even wrong in their little bunny heads! As you said though, I can see the difference in Fleury. He doesn’t like it and he’s still not very sure at all. And is jumpy but his eyes don’t go all crazy and he’s not breathing so hard you can feel the whole house shaking, lol. Which is all I want from him – to learn to trust me a TINY bit to get him from Point A to Point B with him not having three heart attacks on the way. I’ve haven’t forced any sort of cuddling or “hanging” out at all. I’ve mainly let him roam the couch with me while I do something else. Recently, he began spending a lot more of that time climbing and hanging around on me…which is exactly what I was hoping for! So when I held him in my lap yesterday, I was so insanely proud and happy at how well he just sat there! No fighting or anything. I’ve tried that before and I can honestly say I never left without a good bite for being so evil to him! LOL. I actually never expected him to let me do that and had planned on just letting him run off if he got angry because i’ve tried SO hard to keep everything (absolutely everything) positive with him. I told my boyfriend even if he bites not to yell or get upset. Catch him before he can do it or just ignore it because you get angry, Fleury gets angry, and then the whole house is angry. It’s ALWAYS been like that with them. They respond SOOO badly to anything negatively I’ve come to realize. If you yelp or yell at them for biting – they’ll come right over and do it again. How dare the human try and control them! Haha!

                                  Thanks for all the replies, guys! I was incredibly happy and just had to post about it because I was so proud of him!

                                  Dymii – I’m actually very intrigued by what your vet had you do. I’ve been keeping the handling to a minimum and have tried just to get him to enjoy hanging out with me. I pick him up to get him out of the x pen and then again when I put him back. A long with a few pick-ups on the couch. So I’ve tried to make it not a chore with him but rather incorporate it into the “fun” we are having. Which has seemed to work better with much less stress and tension between both of us!

                                  In a few days I may see how it goes with one of the others but I’m not expecting miracles. I’ve been doing this with Fleury for weeks and finally had such an awesome break-through with him… so I’m definitely not expecting the others to be nice to me for this horrid experience for at least a week or two!


                                • tanlover14
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                                    I do have to add that I’m not sure I’ll go as far as trying to snuggle Sidney and Tanger – maybe I will feel differently down the road… but I never meant for that to happen with Fleury either. It’s more important for me to build a better relationship with them (AND to be able to handle them without everybun having a heart attack) than it is for them to cuddle. I like them being able to hang out with me on the couch though as we do this every night with Simba and Nora because they love to cuddle next to you. I would love to build a one-on-one relationship with them doing the same minus cuddling and just “hanging” out as close as they preferred. I think that’s PERSONALLY the most important part for me – although the handling thing has been an added bonus as it seemed the time to work on it.


                                  • CheriB603
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                                      I know NOTHING about Tans, but the more I meet different bunny breeds, the more I see the similarities within the breed. My first bun was a mini rex and very independent, hated being touched, let alone picked up (it was like wrestling 6 greased cats!) and was skittish of noise and strangers. My flemmie is a big cuddly mush ball who jumps into my lap, lets me trim her nails (as long as there is a treat reward!) follows me around like a puppy and runs up to visitors and gives them the once over in case they have pockets full of blueberries!
                                      My step mothers’ mini lop is a sweet, loveable little guy who is not big on being picked up but loves to get pets and give kisses!
                                      I am very happy that you are experiencing a new connection with your bun! What a wonderful feeling!


                                    • tanlover14
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                                        Hahaha – Cheri – I’m so jealous! I’ve always wanted a Flemmie. Mainly because I want a free-roam bunny! And because they are so BIG! All my little ones are 4 lb-ers and under. Thank you so much for your well wishes. It really is a very wonderful feeling. Beyond wonderful.

                                        I do have to say – my post is completely all over the place. And totally disorganized! My thoughts were just so excited with Fleury!


                                      • Sarita
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                                          TL – I would not want 5 rabbits free roaming my home either – I can’t even imagine LOL.

                                          I do wonder if perhaps once your Tans become older they mellow out – we can only hope :~) But in any case it sounds like you are making good progress.


                                        • mia
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                                            Thanks for the post. Wished it was here when I got my buns.

                                            I felt like a total failure with my troublemaker after following so many people’s advice and nothing working. Even though many say that all buns are different, the suggestions and paths are all similar. Do X and Y should happen. They will warm up in X months. If it doesn’t happen, you must be doing something wrong. All bonded buns should act like this, so yours must not be, whoever bonded them must not know what they’re doing, or they must be defective. Perhaps mine are “defective” to some people since they were all adopted *shrugs*. What I’ve realized is if you have a good head on your shoulder and a big enough heart to care, you know more about your buns than anyone else and you’ll find the right approach.

                                            I have to continue to work with all of mine – in my own special way and in ways that are different for each – but sure have come a long ways from being all bandaged up and covered in scars looking like I was abused.


                                          • tanlover14
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                                              Hmm, the number one thing I feel I have learned is everything is just a “starting point” when it comes to bunnies… whether it’s bonding with other rabbits, bonding with yourself, dealing with negative behaviors, ect. They are ALL starting points and personally, I don’t believe there is any set way to follow when dealing with a bunnies personality and behaviors. It’s simply start with these starting points and then shape and change whatever you’re trying to do to fit your bunny, their needs, and their personalities.

                                              For example, with bonding my crew… I definitely stepped out of the “norm” of bonding steps with my last two. And completely went ALL over the board trying to figure out a good way to bond them. It eventually succeeded but I have definitely realized the ways I tried (like keeping them together non stop in the beginning) are not the ideal, norm, or the suggestions you get when attempting to bond. I’ve also had this reaction when dealing with my Tans. With my five, I’ve definitely come to the conclusion that each rabbit is a seperate rabbit. They are individuals and they really know how to show it. Starting points and tips are only those. Although they sometimes work easily, sometimes they don’t and I really have never expected anything with the “norm” to work when it comes to my crew because they are just all so different. Even though my Tans are drastically alike – each of them definitely has their own ways and boundaries when interacting with us and it’s definitely taken me a lot of trial and error to try and figure out the best way for each of my buns.

                                              Sarita — the horror of five free-roaming bunnies… Haha! I would so love it though! If I lived in a house where everything was acceptable to being destroyed and woudn’t harm them. Unfortunately, my house is FULL of wires (we are a very technology oriented home), not to mention plants the buns can’t eat (the pepper plants have always worried me if we ever tried to free-roam). Sigh… Whenever we sell our place and get another, we have already agreed to a bunny room so the brat babies can have a whole room to themselves. Although I’ve decided instead of closing the door – I want a baby gate or something or the sort up because I think they thrive even when they just see us interacting and hanging out close to them!


                                            • Sarita
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                                                TL – I think you make some good points. I think that when members ask why does my rabbit….or what can I do to….that we can only give our own anecdotes and what has worked with us (and that doesn’t mean with all the rabbit(s) we’ve owned). It’s always worth trying what other people have tried but it may not work for your particular rabbit and in your particular environment.

                                                One of the hardest questions I have answering is why does my rabbit…(thump, act scared, act mean, etc….) because it’s really impossible to know what it going on in their head and it’s difficult for us to picture the environment they are in and know exactly what they see or hear so…quite frustrating. I think even if we could think like a rabbit it wouldn’t be like every rabbit – like what my rabbit thinks, feels, see’s and smells just won’t mirror everyone’s rabbit.

                                                It sounds like you’ve pondered on this quite a bit and it’s interesting to see what you’ve concluded.

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