French Lop Question

[Treori]

 Hiya everyone.

So my doe has been spayed and has recovered fantadstically and it’s now time to start looking for a companion for her.

I got her with the intention of getting her a ‘partner’ but all the others in her litter were already reserved and as I did not want a mini breed I had to wait to find a non mini breeder to have a litter in the area. I did look into rescues, but my local rescue was rediculous. I would have to pay a rather massive amount of money to ‘adopt’ one of their rabbits and then I would have to sign a disclaimer that the rabbit basically belongs to them, I would only be able to use ‘their’ vet etc etc etc. If I was an inexperienced rabbit owner, I would understand this but I’m not. Even if I moved house I would HAVE to give the rabbit back to them and as it would have been bonded they were expecting me to give them the bonded rabbit with it too. Anyway.

So I decided to go with a French lop for my second rabbit. There is a breeder very close to me and he has a litter of red agouti butterflies, and broken red agouti butterflies. I know French lops are a ‘giant’ breed (Freya is a rex, so she is a large standard breed, and from the speed she is still growing, she might top the average rex weight or around 9lbs) but while there is tons of info about WEIGHT I can’t find any info about actual SIZE.

See the biggest problem is I will be building what I am calling a DIY hutch complex. I have always been good at carpentry so I am gonna put my skills to good use and make a large 3 storied home for the bunnies. The rabbits would be kept in this during the day when I’m working you see and at night to keep them safe from anything they might get a hold fo and eat (flat IS rabbit proofed, but you can never be too careful, especially as my son seems determined to not put his pencils away and they are a particular favourite of Freya’s to eat).

I need to know the height a frenchie can stand when periscoping in particular. Would 2 feet be a high enough floor clearance? It would be 5 foot x 2 foot floor space, but it’s the height I need for each floor (I was thinking 6 foot high in total). Or would making one floor a bit shorter then the other two be OK? Such as the bottom level which is where the ‘bedroom’ is going to be located.

I know it’s going to be February next year before I can begin bonding them (they are ready to come home in August, he needs to be 6 months for his castration and then at least another month for his hormones to die down before introducing Freya and him fully) so it would be well after that before they would be able to use the Hutch complex, but I would like to be able to buy the materials and draw up the plans before hand.

Sorry for the long post, and thanks for any help you can give

[hannaroo]

I would allow at least 6ft x 3ft x3ft as a bare minimum. And that is minimum. French lops grow to be pretty big so if your lucky enough to get a well behaved bun you can always have them free range in a bunny room?

[hannaroo]

Sorry, I should add per floor to the measurements I love French lops. I nearly got one but decided as I work full time and will be moving out on my own over the next year I wanted to get a companion and decided smaller breeds would be cheaper to feed and accommodate good luck! Please post pictures!

[Treori]

 Thanks. They would be almost fully free ranged anyway. I do volunteer work from 10am-2.30pm three days a week so the rest most of the morning and afternoon and the entire evening the cage is always open (except if Freya does something naughty like peeing somewhere she knows she shouldnt, and then she gets a ‘time out’ for up to an hour, luckily she learnt quickly that peeing in places she isnt allowed meant no playing so she doesn’t do it now)

OK working out with tweaking the new hutch sizes, I will have to leave off building it until they have begun bonding, because it will be too big along with both their cages and runs/pens. Once they are happily pair bonded though I will be able to set it all up nicely for them though.

I found out that a frenchie will average 3 feet when they are laid down fully with legs stretched out, it was mainly the height I was unsure of

And yup, I can post a picture now as I have spoken to the breeder.
This is Zeus, he is going ot be 6 weeks old on Thurdsay and will be coming home the 1st or 2nd week in August depending on how he goes. He is a broken red agouti butterfly.

 

[hannaroo]

He is absolutely adorable! I guess something smaller would work temporarily as they are practically free range and he won’t grow to his full size for a while! I’m so jealous!!!!!

[Treori]

Thank you very much
I can’t believe he is going to be mine either. Excited is not the word ^_^

[Treori]

Oh, I should ask, how long before Frenchies are fully grown? I think I saw somewhere that said it would take a year and a half? Is that right?

[Julezypie]

Beautiful!

[Treori]

Thank you

[MoveDiagonally]

5′ X 2′ is too small for two rabbits, especially if one is large.

The minimum for two rabbits small-med is 4′ X 4′, 16 sq ft. 5′ X 2′ would only be 10 sq ft. 6′ X 3′, 18 sq ft would be a bit better but I would really go as big as you can. My 10lb English Lop can periscope in 2′ but 3′ would probably be better. I kept him in a 4′ X 4′ pen when he was single and it never seemed big enough for him. 

I think most bunnies reach their full size at about 6 months give or take. 

[Treori]

So 2 floors of 6x3x3 each would be better
And 6 months? Even for the bigger breeds?

I do have another question actually. I was planning on adding and ‘escape tube’ on the second floor (the 1 foot diameter corrugated stuff so she would have had purchase to be able to run up and down it) I was wondering what size I should use now I’m getting a frenchie? Is 1foot dia big enough? It’s not like they would be standing up in it. I know I wouldn’t be able to attacht it to the second floor now as Zeus would eventually be too heavy for it so I could attach it to the bottom floor instead and give them something extra to run about in. Or would it be better to leave it separate completely and just leave it in the room for them to run through that way

(seems Freya’s hormones have gone already, she was extra snuggly last night, in fact she was half laying across me, something she has never done before. Though her curiosity has gotten even bigger, she keeps trying to get into places she isn’t allowed, yesterday morning she got into my bed room, somewhere no pet is ever allowed to go)

[Megabunny]

Hi There,

Sounds like any bunnies of yours will be in wonderful hands! My husband is a computer geek, but I pressured him into building me a cage, and it is what we’re calling The Taj. I think it may take as long as that, too. I’ll pass on some of the info we’ve learned along the way.

I wanted the cage built with a Giant Chinchilla in mind. The males get up to 14 pounds, though mine is small for his breed and won’t get full size. I think the breeder should be able to give you a safe height to make the cage. One of the GC breeders told me 2 1/2 ft high would be fine, as we were working with 5 feet, and not sure how to break it up. The 6th foot is to keep it off the ground a bit, though I’m hoping the buns will use litter pans for the most part.

Are you familiar with the need to use heavy wire on the bottom and provide resting pads for them? Let me know if you want more info on that. Standard wire can cut into their feet and you need 14 gauge (maybe 16 would be OK) wire and it’s is insanely expensive to buy, if you get the good kind, not to mention impossible to find. We almost canned the project due to the issue with wire, but have worked it out. Again, let me know if you want more info. on that. I know you may already know what you’re doing in that regard. But really…make use of the breeders. I’ve been talking with one in Arkansas, even though I live in NY, and she’s been amazing help. I got on this formum so I wouldn’t bug her too much, as she is busy but always so kind when I have a question.

Have fun with your project and bunnies. My G.C. breeder friend actually says she even prefers the French Lop as a pet, but this Giant Chinchilla is the sweetest thing ever! I’m also told you don’t have to have rabbits the same size to house together. Went and looked at a little guy at the shelter today. They call him a lion head, but I think he’s a Jersey Wooley, a breed I would love to have. But he lunged at me, was shy, and apparently returned to the shelter because the other people couldn’t get him socialized with their rabbit.

I cannot believe how controlling your shelter is. I thought MINE was controlling!! Wow!!

 

[Treori]

Hiya

I can’t use wire flooring at all. My doe is a rex and they are VERY prone to sore hocks and foot damage as they don’t have a lot of fur on the soles of their feet. In fact even being on plain plastic can cause damage, so I tend to use a layer of saw dust, and a layer or two of doubled up newspaper on top. She enjoys shredding the paper to nest in but never digs deep enough to disturb the sawdust. Also I’m pretty sure wire bottom cages aren’t recommended for rabbits at all, mainly because of the way their feet bend or something, even hard floors aren’t good because rabbit feet are designed to press into the earth when they move (carpet with underlay is usually fine because of the plushiness)

I already knew that housing two different sized breeds was OK. It’s mainly breeding that things can go awry (and can be extremely dangerous especially if the female is a lot smaller then the male). If the parents of my boy are the ones I THINK they are then dads 16 lbs and mums 14 lbs and they have produced some very large babies in the past. Messaged the breeder to confirm this just waiting on him replying.

I have found a couple of pet pens that should be suitable. The ones for running about until they are bonded (two pens) are both 91cm high with 8 panels 61cm wide. They can be attached to each other once I have pair bonded Zeus and Freya if I need to pen them for any reason (such as decorating) The other pen is 7 foot by 3 foot and 2 1/2 foot heigh and has a covering over the top to prevent enthusiastic escaping. I’ve measured my room and realised I will probably need to get rid of the armchair which is fine, it’s only used as a handy place to stick laundry waiting to go into the bedroom. Me and my son always sit together on the sofa (and Freya likes to sit with me up there now once he has gone to bed)

I love french lops, they are so laid back usually.

Yeah the local rescue is ridiculous. They want £75 for one rabbit plus £50 for inoculations (which are cheaper to get done by my vet, who is very good with rabbits) and if I wanted pair bonding done it would cost me around the same cost per day, plus I have to sign a disclaimer in the case of my rabbit being injured or even dying while in their care, seriously, I would never trust them.

[Megabunny]

That sounds like an awesome set-up!! The pic. of your baby is sooo adorable! Enjoy!

[MoveDiagonally]

Treori – “And 6 months? Even for the bigger breeds? ”

Good point! I looked it up 6-9 months is when larger breeds reach full size. I would probably leave the tube on the floor for them to play through instead of attaching it.

Megabunny –
“Are you familiar with the need to use heavy wire on the bottom and provide resting pads for them?”

Wire flooring is not appropriate for rabbits. They don’t have pads to protect their feet, just fur, skin, and bone. Litter boxes/training and solid floors are what’s recommended.

[Megabunny]

Thanks for the input. I knew I’d probably get dinged on that. There will be lots of resting pads and not so much wire exposed though. I’ve talked w/ breeders a lot to be sure I’m doing OK. Thanks again.

[MoveDiagonally]

Breeders do not have to go through any education or training to become one. They are not experts and the title does not lend them credibility. Biologists, rabbit experts, reputable vets, people with credentials advise against wire floors.

On top of that, I thought your bunnies were litter trained? Wire floors have no purpose at all when rabbits use litter boxes.

[Megabunny]

Sorry to disappoint you. I’ll try not to impose on any questions again.

[MoveDiagonally]

Posted By Megabunny on 07/16/2013 08:36 PM
Sorry to disappoint you. I’ll try not to impose on any questions again.

I’m confused by this response. I do apologize if my comments came off overly negative towards you. 

My main point was that breeders are not the best sources of information regarding pet rabbits. Breeder and pet care standards are very different. Rabbit.org is a good source. Dana Krempels is a biologist that’s considered an expert in rabbits and offers a lot of good info. This forum has many experianced pet owners. 

Edited to add: My question about litter box training wasn’t a “dig” or anything. I just thought you had a thread about it recently. Tone doesn’t translate well in text :/ 

[Deleted User]

Mega Bunny, I’d like to add that as Move Diagonally said (and if she sounds emphatic I do believe it is her concern for your rabbit, not because she doesn’t want to help you so, please try not to be offended) breeders not only don’t have any specific qualifications but even more important they have very different objectives from a pet rabbit’s owner. Wire flooring makes it fast and easy to clean a cage under untrained animals, while keeping the animals relatively “clean”. In addition as mentioned wire floors pose a special threat to rabbits delicate feet. Providing padding for some areas may help, but much better to simply remove or completely cover the floor. (Cover as in wrap it in a piece of carpet, put some linolium over it, … turn it into a solid surface. Although the plastic trays under most wire floors would work just fine if the grate was removed.)

When writing about hay in another thread you said you were learning new ways of caring for your rabbits. Litter training and good housing are two major steps along that really wonderful road to having a happy healthy PET rabbit. Breeders do not have pets, even the good ones who care and handle their rabbits regularly are in a business and if you take their advice at all it is a good idea to remember their particular view point, one I presume you do not need (or want) to share. The House Rabbit Society has excellent articles explaining in detail how a rabbit should be housed, and why they have these needs. Maybe reading some of them would help.

[Deleted User]

Treori, how terrific! Congratulations on your about to be new rabbit, … and I’m a little jealous, I’d have liked a Rex, I hear their fur has an Incredible texture!

One idea re the height (spacing) of your floors. Afraid I don’t have your skills, mine had to settle for a condo (they are dwarfs) but I made the first and second floors close to the same size, (obviously the second is shorter for them to go up and/or down), but the third level I made into two “shelves”, one on each side. So the entire central area of the second level is actually two stories high. Mine don’t particularly need it, they are just the right height to jump between levels (forteen inches apart), but if they were bigger it would be a good space to stretch Up in. Since you have the luxury of designing and getting your floors cut just so you may be able to play with that sort of concept. I can see all kinds of variations, … squares in corners, back shelves, … etc.

Look forward to hearing about Zeus’ home coming, … and all your adventures over the coming months. Best of luck!

[Treori]

Good morning Guys.

Thank you very much Diagonally. There doesn’t seem to be a lot of info about the larger breeds online that I can find except the basic stuff that everyone knows of course XD

Megabunny, she wasn’t having a go at you If you are having your partner make your housing though it might cost about the same, but a wooden floor would be much easier to make then a wire one anyway (for the wire one you would need to create a wooden support frame and then nail the wire to it and then create another identical support frame and fasten that to the top side of the wire otherwise you would end up with a floor that’s either not going to be strong enough to hold your rabbits weight OR you will end up with exposed wire at the edges that could potentially cause some serious damage to your bun. Plus the foot damage it could cause like I mentioned in my previous post

Thank you Grey Dove, when Freya was younger her fur texture was like silk (baby rex’s have slightly longer fur, like baby buns usually do) but recently her fur has changed and it’s so amazing. Like extremely dense velvet, but softer XD

Now I did think of that, my original plans have a sleeping box on the bottom floor, the second floor had a regular ‘L’ shaped floor with a ramp for access to and a ‘half floor’ and ramp access, giving a large open space beside the ramp.

The breeder has said he will give me updates on how Zeus is doing which was nice of him (he is a good breeder as well, for example, he won’t allow a baby to leave his until he is sure it is ready to leave, so any time between 10 weeks and 15 weeks)

[Author]

Messages