Natural remedies for e.cuniculi?

[sir-rabbit-pants]

My Thumper (6 year old Nethie) just had two seizures in a row while I was watching.  

The last time I saw this happen I posted on here (see https://binkybunny.com/FORUM/tabid/54/aft/123793/Default.aspx).  The vet did blood tests and got a slight positive for e.cuniculi and treated for that.  I haven’t seen any seizures since then until today.  

On a (maybe) related note, Thumper’s partner, Flower (3 year old Mini-Lop) was just at the vet again for urine scald.  There were sores all over her bottom.     I read something online that e.cuniculi can cause urinary incontinence and brought it up to the vet since Thumper had been treated a couple months ago.  There was actually a power outage that day so it was limited what we could do.  We did a urine test and the vet gave her Bactrin (no power = no refrigerated meds).  I haven’t checked her bottom closely in the last week but from afar, it looks better.  

My buns have been such frequent flyers at the vet that as soon as I say I need Dr. Fetzer or another rabbit-savvy vet, the receptionist asks if it’s Thumper or Flower.  I’m really tired of giving them meds because it seems the problems always return.  I would prefer to do something that promotes general health rather than a band-aid.  I read a couple things about herbal remedies for general health such as apple cider vinegar, echinacea, and dandelion root.  I’ve been putting the apple cider vinegar in their water for about a month now and I just started the echinacea and dandelion root this morning.  Has anybody had any success with herbal remedies for more serious ailments like e.cuniculi?

[jerseygirl]

I can understand your reluctance to keep medicating.
How long was treatment for Thumper? Do you still have any med left?

I think some natural support does have merit but I don’t feel confident they are useful by themselves. I tend to think of them as complimentary measures rather then alternative ones.

Things common in rabbits like EC and pasteurella have flare ups often after stress or if the immune system is compromised. It might be a rabbit has an unrelated mild infection that occupies the immune system and then the other chronic issues flare up as a result.

My point of view is to treat with prescribed meds and use natural therapies either alongside (if recommended) or after recovery to keep the immune system strong. Hopefully preventing relapse.

I’ve heard of various natural therapies before but cannot think of any specific to E.C. sorry. The book Rabbit Health in the 21C by Kathy Smith covers some natural therapies I believe. Maybe you could borrow a copy to see if anything useful there?

Some {{{vibes}}} for your Thumper & Flower.

[BinkyBunny]

My understanding too is that in order for it to be determined that e.c. is actually the issue and creating symptoms, is for the vet to compare the blood tests to see if the titer levels have changed. Rising numbers with returned symptoms can sometimes mean that the E.C is really the culprit. Now, with that being said, I haven’t had a bunny with e.cuniculi in awhile and I may not be fully up to date with the latest and greatest. I definitely am not aware of herbal remedies that have proven to work.

I wish they could find a cure for this e.cuniculi! In the meantime, I ditto Jersey’s great advice.

[jerseygirl]

Do you know what his calcium levels were like from previous blood tests?

I’m curious because you thought he might have renal problems in a previous thread. Blood calcium levels can be either too low or too high in renal disease and can be a cause of seizures also.
If you can confirm one way or another, then you might be as to adjust diet to help.

[Sarita]

I think Jersey gave some good advice in trying to treat with both. I would not stop the medication cold turkey but supplement with the natural remedies to boost their immune systems.

[sir-rabbit-pants]

So I called the vet on Wednesday and talked through the options. She said it would likely take more serious tests like MRIs and such to know the real reason why he’s having seizures. I didn’t really want to take Thumper in again if I didn’t have to so we decided on another course of Albednazol and continued monitoring of the seizures. If they continue even with another course, she said it may be permanent damage from the EC or something else. We started the meds on Thursday. He’s had at least one seizure each day since Tuesday but no change in severity or duration. No more than a minute and no lasting effects. I’m also continuing the echnicaea and cider vinegar alongside the albednazol.

jerseygirl – He had two courses of Albednazol about 3 weeks each last time. I looked up that book and it looks like I can get the ebook for $3. Score! I don’t know about his past calcium levels. I will ask the next time I speak to the vet. What sorts of diet changes would affect calcium? They have been having a bit more kale lately than in the past.

[jerseygirl]

Diazepam can be used for rabbits to manage seizures.

The calcium thing is tricky… HRS says to reduce calcium rich veg but not too much. At 6yrs old you don’t want him getting too little either. There’s also other things that effect calcium metabolism -phosphorus, magnesium, vitamin D. I’ve come across mention of this but I do not know specifics at all. I think some of these vitamins and minerals are co-dependent on each other.
There’s another book you might like to look into. Rabbit Nutrition & Nutritional Healing by Lucile Moore. I’ve not read it myself. It’s on my list to get at some point.

jerseygirl – He had two courses of Albednazol about 3 weeks each last time

In not certain the course is long enough. I’m really only familiar with Fenbendazole (panacur) which is given for 28 days. From what I’m reading, Albendazole needs be given even longer. I know, not what you want to hear when you’re trying to get away from medicating altogether !

Perhaps ask your vet about Panacur and Ponazuril?

She said it would likely take more serious tests like MRIs and such to know the real reason why he’s having seizures.

Have he ever had just head X-ray done before? I read over some of your old threads and am now wondering about his teeth. Especially being a ND and his age. He may not have more common signs of dental problems but if there is anything going on in the molar root area, it’s possible cause of seizures. In fact, infection in ears, eyes or sinus area can very well effect nerves or brain tissue.

Another cause is pasteurella. You’ve said he’s suffered snuffles in a previous thread. Has he ever been tested for pasteurella?

[Sarita]

Well kale is not high in calcium – but in any event diet has nothing at all to do with kidney or renal failure….

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