Bonding two rabbits who HATE each other!

[Shoe Bunny]

Hi everyone!

So, I recently introduced myself and my bunnies here https://binkybunny.com/tabid/54/aft/124685/Default.aspx and here https://binkybunny.com/FORUM/tabid/54/aft/124823/Default.aspx. Anyways, it has been quite some time since my female bunny, Ginger was spayed. She was born around Christmas time. Skittles is neutered and 7.5 years old.

Some background: I made the horrible mistake of trying to introduce them to one another before Ginger was spayed. I did this twice, and twice they got into one of those “fur flying everywhere” fights. So, Ginger was spayed on April 27, and they spent one month in their own 2’x2′ pens side by side so they could smell each other, but with no contact. Every few days I’d switch their litter boxes too. After one month and a few days, in late May, I brought them together in a neutral space in another pen. Things seemed OK. They didn’t mind each other too much and seemed indifferent.

Now, anytime Ginger goes anywhere near Skittles, he thumps his foot and runs away from her. And if she gets close enough, she nips him. I have tried countless different methods to teach her that nipping at him is not OK because he clearly doesn’t like it. Skittles once tried to mount her, and she was receptive to it for the few seconds I let it go on, but since then, they have hated each other. At least, it is very obvious that Skittles can’t stand Ginger’s guts.  

I have a bunny abode bunny condo and the each have their own floor. I’m just worried that I will have to keep them separated forever because, to be honest, I just don’t have the patience anymore. I don’t know what I’m doing wrong and it’s exhausting. Skittles has gotten along with EVERY bunny in the past until Ginger, and now he just seems to hate her so much all he ever wants to do is get away from her. I feel bad and almost regret bringing Ginger home with us because Skittles must’ve not been ready for a new friend, yet. And as much as I don’t want to have to forever keep them apart, the thought of having to find a new home for Ginger is heartbreaking.

PLEASE help me out here. Any ideas on anything I can do? Even if they only spend “out and about” time together, I’d love for them to interact and stop hating each other. Skittles acts as though the love and life has been sucked out of him whenever she is nearby him and I hate seeing him so depressed.

[MoveDiagonally]

Where are you introducing them? Can you describe what they’re doing exactly during their sessions? Other than the nipping, thumping, and humping, what makes you think they “hate” each other?

You need a completely neutral and small space. The bath tub is popular. You’ll want to wear gloves and long sleeves so that if they bite you when you separate them it won’t hurt (you don’t want to be afraid to “get in there”). In the beginning you don’t want to have food or litter boxes around as they can encourage territorial behaviors. Try not to end sessions when they fight as this teaches them that fighting gets them what they want which is the other bunny away from them.

I think stress bonding would be beneficial for you and there are a lot of ways to do it:

1. Car Stressing
You need two people and a car. You put them in a carrier or box together and have one person drive and the other person monitor the bunnies.

2. Laundry Basket
You place the bunnies in a laundry basket and either shake them or place them on a running washer/dryer, etc… When my bunnies were being aggressive I would stress them and then stop, if they still tried to fight I would stress them again, so on.

3. The Cube! My favorite method. It requires NIC cubes and I’m not sure if you have any on hand? It forces them to be in close proximity and you can jostle it, carry it, etc.. to stress them out. It looks like this:

Here are some more car less stressing ideas:
https://binkybunny.com/FORUM/tabid/54/aft/124529/Default.aspx

Remember that not all methods work for every bunny or forever. I used the laundry basket for a while but my bunnies got used to it so I switched to the cube method. Don’t be afraid to try new things if something isn’t working.

[tanlover14]

MD is completely right about stress bonding. They NEED to be stressed bonded.

I don’t think your bunnies hate each other, I think they just don’t know how to trust each other. Which is where you come in, you must teach them to trust one another by stress bonding. Two of my buns, Simba and Tanger, HATED each other. Simba would thump and run and Tanger would literally try ripping every part of Simba right off his body if I wasn’t constantly holding him. THAT is pure hate, so don’t give up yet! (Btw, they are both successfully bonded now!)

Personally, I think what you need is a break. Take a break until you feel less stressed about the situation because your stress WILL push off on them and make it harder to bond. Literally, you have to keep it together for them. I would give yourself a week or two break to get a handle on the situation and then come back. MD and I are both bonding pros, I think you should start from scratch with detailed bonding and we can help you through it with some new tips and bonding strategies. What do you think?

[Shoe Bunny]

Thanks for the tips! MD, your pictures are adorable. I am only so stressed myself because I’m coming up from severe sickness, dealing with the passing of a loved one, and to top it all off, being forced to move out of my current apartment. So taking a break sounds like a great idea because I don’t want my current stress of the moment to cause me to do something I will regret. My bunnies are kind of a rock right now and a great constant.

Anyways, I have tried bonding them in various carpeted places around the apartment, but given that it’s in NYC, space is limited. I’m only looking forward to the new apartment because it will be a new neutral space for all of us and hopefully we will have a new place to do some bonding sessions. I tried car stressing, but it didn’t seem to work. Again they were just kind of indifferent to one another. Skittles hopped over my boyfriend’s lap and sat on his left, while Ginger sat on his right. So, my BF was literally separating them. They were both stressed I guess but if he tried to put Skittles back next to Ginger, he would hop back to the other side! He really is holding some type of grudge!

I’ll give the laundry basket/washing machine method a shot when I’m next near a laundromat. How long should I leave them on top of the machine? What if they just continue to avoid each other? I am definitely trying the cube trick in a few days. They also don’t seem to like the bath tub. Ginger just kinda sits there, and Skittles spends the whole time trying to hop out.

And I’m only thinking they hate each other because Ginger is always trying to nip Skittles and most of the time, she gets a tuft of his fur. And any time she comes near him, he thumps and hops away from her. I once did try to put him on her level of the bunny condo, and she nipped him a couple times, but for the most part, she did seem kind of indifferent to him being there, but he just had this “I hate you” thing going on the whole time. I’m really hoping for a success story like yours, tanlover. How long did it take?

Another question… about ending the sessions when they fight… Should I always let them “work it out” when Skittles is thumping and Ginger is trying to nip? I’m always afraid they will hurt each other or that Skittles will forever be afraid of her. But should I not separate them under any circumstances unless thy start to really fight? I haven’t seen a fight since pre-spay, but she still nips. She nips at me sometimes too, though, so she may just be one of those buns who speaks with her teeth!

[Shoe Bunny]

Thanks for the tips! MD, your pictures are adorable. I am only so stressed myself because I’m coming up from severe sickness, dealing with the passing of a loved one, and to top it all off, being forced to move out of my current apartment. So taking a break sounds like a great idea because I don’t want my current stress of the moment to cause me to do something I will regret. My bunnies are kind of a rock right now and a great constant.

Anyways, I have tried bonding them in various carpeted places around the apartment, but given that it’s in NYC, space is limited. I’m only looking forward to the new apartment because it will be a new neutral space for all of us and hopefully we will have a new place to do some bonding sessions. I tried car stressing, but it didn’t seem to work. Again they were just kind of indifferent to one another. Skittles hopped over my boyfriend’s lap and sat on his left, while Ginger sat on his right. So, my BF was literally separating them. They were both stressed I guess but if he tried to put Skittles back next to Ginger, he would hop back to the other side! He really is holding some type of grudge!

I’ll give the laundry basket/washing machine method a shot when I’m next near a laundromat. How long should I leave them on top of the machine? What if they just continue to avoid each other? I am definitely trying the cube trick in a few days. They also don’t seem to like the bath tub. Ginger just kinda sits there, and Skittles spends the whole time trying to hop out.

And I’m only thinking they hate each other because Ginger is always trying to nip Skittles and most of the time, she gets a tuft of his fur. And any time she comes near him, he thumps and hops away from her. I once did try to put him on her level of the bunny condo, and she nipped him a couple times, but for the most part, she did seem kind of indifferent to him being there, but he just had this “I hate you” thing going on the whole time. I’m really hoping for a success story like yours, tanlover. How long did it take?

Another question… about ending the sessions when they fight… Should I always let them “work it out” when Skittles is thumping and Ginger is trying to nip? I’m always afraid they will hurt each other or that Skittles will forever be afraid of her. But should I not separate them under any circumstances unless thy start to really fight? I haven’t seen a fight since pre-spay, but she still nips. She nips at me sometimes too, though, so she may just be one of those buns who speaks with her teeth!

[Shoe Bunny]

OK one more question… what does stressing them do? Do they get so stressed out that they must turn to each other for comfort? Is that the idea behind it? What about if they don’t trust each other?

[Bam]

The stressing is supposed to make them afraid so they a) don’t fight b) seek comfort in each other. I am in the process of bonding two males that really hate each other, and they don’t fight in the car during stress-bonding. First I tried introducing them in a neutral space, and man did they fight and hump backwards.

Mine don’t trust each other but the stressing is supposed to make them get used to each other and realize that the other rabbit perhaps isn’t such a bad rabbit after all. It’s kind of like if you were alone on a ship with your worst enemy and the ship started to sink, you’d probably be able to co-operate with your enemy. And if you went through sth like that togeather and managed to get away safe, you’d perhaps not be such enemies anymore. To bunnies, a shaking box is like a sinking ship.

 

Leaving them on top of a laudry-machine seems risky to me, I’d like to be able to see them and intervene. (But maybe you don’t mean LEAVE literally.  I’d try 10 minutes for the first session. If they fight, break it up but don’t end the session., that only teaches them fighting works. I don’t know about laudrymats, we don’t get them where I live, I’ve only seen them in movies, aren’t the machines so high you can’t like “hover over” a basket put on top of them?)

[MoveDiagonally]

ShoeBunny – I do agree with TL, I think a break sounds like a wonderful idea. Bonding itself can be really stressful and if things are stressful already piling that on can be really rough.

While I know it doesn’t seem like it, the bunny’s being indifferent or ignoring each other is actually a good thing in the beginning. The relationship has to start from somewhere and if it’s more ignoring than fighting than that’s a pretty good foundation to build on. In the scheme of bunny aggression the fur pulling and nipping is lower on the scale. The trio I am bonding now at first meeting was growling, lunging, kicking, boxing, etc… While we still have the occasional nip/fur pull we don’t have anything near the aggression that was seen in the first session. I definitely think you will be successful!

Learning when to break them up and when to let them work it out is something that you will get better at in time. If you think they are hurting each other definitely intervene. If they are humping or just doing “move” nips, which are more like nudges than nipping, I let them work it out. If I see any lunging, hear the slightest growl, boxing, or kicking, I intervene and stress bond them. The biggest thing you want to avoid is ending a session because of a fight because it teaches them that fighting is a way to get what they want (getting away from the other bunny). There is an exception to ending on a bad note though. If you feel like they are going to cause serious harm to each other, they continue to viciously fighting during stressing, etc… Then I would separate and end the session. In a situation like that bunny safety is the #1 priority.

Stress bonding does help them see each other as a source of comfort even if they don’t trust each other. A stressed out bunny also is less likely to try to fight so it helps curb aggression so they can interact at a time they would otherwise fight.

I don’t think I would bond at a laundromat because you don’t have control of the area as it’s a public place. You can use a basket and just jostle/shake it without a washing machine too.

Bam – You do not leave them on top of the laundry machine. You are there to intervene as you would be anywhere else.

Again, I really do think you have an excellent shot at bonding these two!

[Bam]

MD, I wrote before I was thinking clearly =/ Of course you can’t leave them on top of anything, then go and have coffea or sth. Goodness. The idea is so silly (and sad) it makes me laugh now when I’ve had my morning-coffea and my brain is starting to work a bit better.

[tanlover14]

MD gave you perfect advice. I used a box and laundry basket in place of the dryer. I put them in a box and would drag them around the house shaking and banging on the side, haha! Sounds horrible but I swear it works. When I grew tired of this way – I put them in the box and sat on the side with a book. When they fought, I’d turn my vacuum cleaner on right next to them. That would send them for a tizzy and always has stopped the fighting for me.

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