Encouraging one bun’s litter habits when other bun is incontinent

[MeggoWaffle]

Nona is incontinent and poops/pees in her cushy area, which consists of foam mattress pad + tarp + washable puppy pee pads + sherpa fleece to wick away moisture. Piper, who can still control herself, has decided that she can go wherever Nona goes! I would say Piper gets in the litterbox 90% of the time for pee and 60% of the time for poop. She has no trouble getting into the litter box, she just decides not to. She doesn’t go around the living room which she has free access to, just in Nona’s corner of the living room.

How can I encourage her to use the litterbox when she is getting mixed signals from Nona’s incontinence? There is always hay in her litter box and I try to clear Nona’s area of poop several times a day.

[Beka27]

Does Piper ONLY go in the litterbox OR on the puppy pads that are in Nona’s area? If so, I’m not really sure what the problem is. Both of these areas have been designated as acceptable potty spots. You’re not going to be able to tell Piper, “You’re allowed to pee in this litter area but not this one.” She doesn’t think she’s doing anything wrong, and really… she isn’t because she’s not peeing/pooping around the living room.

When you have a bonded pair, especially when one has special needs, you sometimes have to make sacrifices. It sounds like you have a good system though, and they are still enjoying their time together. Maybe get some extra washable puppy pads so you can change them out more frequently?

[MeggoWaffle]

Yes, she goes on the sherpa fleece in Nona’s area that is laid over the pee pads or in the litter box. But her litter box is right in Nona’s area, in the same location it has been her whole life. I am well aware that having a special needs bunny requires sacrifices, believe me. However, this is a problem on many levels. First, when Piper poops all over Nona’s area, it makes it harder for me to monitor Nona’s fecal output, which tells me how she is doing in terms of hay ingestion, hydration, medication, etc. Second, when Piper poops all over Nona’s area and I’m gone for a few hours without cleaning it up, Nona is lying in twice as much waste. Third, cleaning up after Piper adds about at least 30 minutes to each day on top of the ~six+ hours/day I spend caring for Nona. This daily extra 30 minutes does not count the fact that I have to change the bedding twice as often, which is a huge, long ordeal every few days.

So, I am still looking for ideas on how to encourage Piper to use the litter box. If anybody has any ideas for making the litter box more attractive than the sherpa fleece, please let me know.

[jerseygirl]

That’s a tough one!
What have you tried so far that’s hasn’t worked?

I can only think of some simple things that may or may not work.
To make litterbox more attractive, switching up hays, using treat hays or hay toppers. Hiding her favourite treats there. Or clicker work.
Is she a fan of cardboard? Could you make the litterbox appealing by placing it inside a cardboard box? So it becomes like a nook or a project if she likes tearing cardboard.

Is there anything (food or scents) that Piper doesn’t like but doesn’t faze Nona? Something like an essential oil. Or any surface she’s fussy about walking on. I’m trying think of things that would make the cushy area less appealing to her…

With it mainly being her pooping there, is it marking behaviour or is she getting her hay out of her litterbox while sitting in the cushy area? (Drives me nuts when they pull their hay out & eat it on the outside if the box!)

[jerseygirl]

Another question: Besides incontinence, what other issues are you addressing for Nona with the current set-up?

If getting Piper to use the box only is not going to happen, perhaps there is a different set up you could try to manage Nona’s incontinence. (I’m not suggesting diapering btw).
It won’t help in monitoring her output but might make their care a little easier.

Other then using positive reinforcement or using some aversion Piper has to your advantage, I’m really not certain there is another way to have a bonded pair use individual designated toilet areas. :/

[MeggoWaffle]

What kind of alternate set up for incontinence were you thinking, Jersey? The current set up (foam, etc) is to help Nona stay comfortable because she is pretty stationary from spondylosis. She spends long periods lying in the same position so I’m trying to eliminate pressure points with the foam. It’s a relatively small area (~4’x4′) to keep her close to hay and water, as she sometimes stranded herself away from those things when she still had the whole living room/kitchen. I would love to hear more ideas for managing incontinence, I just have been so focused on care that I haven’t had time to be more creative.

Things I’ve tried so far that haven’t worked:
-Moving Piper’s poops immediately to the litter box
-Herding Piper to the litterbox if I see her posturing
-Cleaning up Nona’s poops multiple times per day to show it’s not a free-for-all
-Fresh tasty hay in the box, various hays including timothy/oat/orchard

I do need the cushy area to be appealing for Piper to hang out, to keep Nona company and clean her ears, etc., so I can’t use a deterrent.

Part of the problem is that Nona needs the hay right in front of her, and Piper likes to taste whatever Nona is eating, even though she has tasty hay in the box. I can’t hide treats in the litter because as soon as Piper finds a treat she runs around for five minutes to find the perfect spot to eat it, but maybe these ‘hay toppers’ will work. Are there any you recommend? The one in binky bunny store is sold out until mid-August and hecka expensive for only 1.6 oz.

[jerseygirl]

I’m sorry. I’d lost track of this thread and hadnt seen your question. Your recent posts elsewhere reminded me of it.

I’m not sure the set up I was thinking would really work now I better understand Nona’s need for this area.
I had though if you could turn one end of the pen into a slightly raised area you could have a drop-thru floor. Like those wire bases in cages but with those plastic grid mats that protect their feet more.
Maybe the base of large dog crate with raised floor…
But as you’ve said she needs the cushioning, this idea is not really useful.

Does she move toilet at all or she is just unaware when she’s going? Do you have to express her bladder for her?
If she does still have the habit of backing up to urinate like rabbits do, you might get away with something like I’m thinking but covering most of it with cushioning but having the very back against the pen uncovered. Almost like a drainage grate there. Even if she doesn’t go back there, Piper might so it would cut down on the soiling somewhat.
Am I making any sense?

Regarding hay toppers, willow leaves are popular at my house. Dried rose petals and leaves? Apple leaves?

[jerseygirl]

The plastic grid mats I was referring to.

[MeggoWaffle]

We have roses and an apple tree so I will try both those things… thanks!

I don’t express Nona’s bladder. I asked the vet about it because it would cut down on how often I have to change her bedding, but she said it should only be done when they can’t empty it themselves. She is aware of when she pees, she lifts her tail beforehand, but she pees wherever she is (usually lying on her left side) because she isn’t strong enough to get herself somewhere.

I will have to think about this drainage option… it seems so similar to what I already have as the litter box but might be a substitute.

[jerseygirl]

Would something like this cuddle cup with the absorbant layers over it be adequete for her? Allow enough room for some hay?

I’m thinking it would reduce the amount of soft area Piper would be attracted to peeing on but still allow her to be by Nona.

[MeggoWaffle]

That’s an idea!

Pros: it’s cushy, a LOT less laundry, and hopefully Piper would go back to using her litter box.

Cons: Nona might feel like she can’t move about in her area at all and atrophy further. On the other hand, she moves the most when I do PT with her, not when she’s in her own area.

I’m also propping her up with rolled towels under her armpits and hips to prevent her from lying on her left side all the time, so I’d have to find something big enough for her to stretch out.

Thanks, Jersey!

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