What’s wrong with him?

[MrsBeau]

Okay, I have posted here before about another problem with my bun, and just as it started to fix, a completely new problem began! To sum up, previously my bunny could not tolerate pellets as it was making him produce poop that was too mushy and getting stuck to his bum, so I gradually took away the pellets and feed him only unlimited timothy hay now and the greens he needs.

Almost instantly his poop got way better, it’s not mushy at all now and that’s great. However while changing his diet he started to drink a lot of water excessively, and started peeing everywhere and pooping everywhere when before this he was litter trained! Even though I had to then clean his hutch daily, it was always wet, therefore his back legs are always wet. Now his back legs are really red and inflamed and dry and patchy, and has lost some of his hair.

And on top of that, I believe he may be underweight. Even though I feed him twice daily greens and give him unlimited hay, I can feel his spine and hip bones and ribs. He is always ravenous for food, so much so he has learned to jump out of his hutch when I open the top and eats the leaves in the garden (lol).

Of course if I have to I will go to the vet, but I am just wondering if anyone has an idea why this is happening and how I could prevent it myself? Or treat it? He just seems to be full of problems

Thanks so much

[Sarita]

Honestly, it could be a number of things which is why it is important to take him to the vet with your lists of concerns and let the vet do a physical exam on him.

[Bam]

A vet is needed, but you’ve understood this yourself.

Meanwhile, excessive drinking could be due to many things, f ex too little food. When they don’t get enough food, they can sometimes drink more to fill their stomachs. That would be the best-case scanario. They can sometimes drink excessively from boredom. But it could also mean almost any other much more serious health-problem, such as kidney-trouble or an ongoing infection/inflammation in his body. His peeing outside the box could be because his bladder is full. Fully house-broken adult dogs can get the same thing, polydipsia that causes polyuria, and they can even pee indoors because they simply can’t hold their pee. My dog had that only symtom when she got pyometra, that’s how it was discovered and she could be saved throug surgery. I’m not suggesting that your male bun has pyometra of course! But it’s an inflammation/infection and very serious unless treated swiftly.

When I put Bam on an all hay diet because he was chubby, he lost like 200 g (0,7 pounds) in a week because he hates hay and didn’t eat enough.

Did he react badly to any type of pellets, even high-quality like Oxbow? How old is he? I guess he’s neutered.

I hope you’ll gfind out what’s wrong with him.

[Chronicambitions]

What green are you feeding him and how much? Also how much does he weigh?

[MrsBeau]

Yeah I have decided to go to the vet’s as it will be easier to find out what is going on.

He is about 9 months old, not neutered.

I am feeding him lettuce (not iceberg), dill, grass, and spinach. I give him a big handful and a bit in the morning and same at night.
He is about 1kg now. But I can feel his spine and hip bones protruding and his ribs. It really can’t be healthy for him to be that boney.

For now I have brought him in the cage inside so I can keep him clean and have seen that he does still use the litter box but when he’s just laying around or sitting he just seems to leak pee out constantly anyway. I think that’d be why his feet are red, so there definitely must be something wrong with that.

Thanks for replying guys, it’s nice to know I have some support from fellow bunny owners lol.. sometimes I don’t think people realise how worrisome bunnies can be sometimes when they don’t have any.

[Monkeybun]

If he is on a pelletless diet, he will need a wider range of veggies to eat to make up for the lack of nutrients. Not all greens are created equal, and he will need vitamins and minerals found in various types. Definitely consult your vet about it, as they will have some good recommendations.

[LittlePuffyTail]

Best of luck at the vet and make sure to let us know how it goes.

[MrsBeau]

I went to the vet today and was rushed out the door as soon as I got there. I can’t believe how terrible the service was. He gave me barely information aside from “this bunny has definitely something wrong with him” and feeling him said he was skin and bones and there was definitely something more than just a urine infection when I told him he had lost that much weight in the space of a week and a half. He simply gave me antibiotics for urine infection and told me to come back in a week if he’s not any better (what when he’s dead?).

Anyway I took the antibiotics, dropped by the store Petsathome and in a brief chat with one of the staff I got more information than at the vets. He basically said to me that if he’s lost that much weight and it’s not his teeth (I have checked) then he must have worms. He gave me the worming paste and I have put him on both the antibiotics and gave him the dosage of paste for today. However today I have seen him get even more worse in the space of a few hours.

He not only has lost even more weight since this morning (how that is possible I don’t even know), one of his legs is now barely working, and he keeps eating and eating and it is honestly breaking my heart.

Despite having so little done at the vets, I had to pay a lot of money and I simply can’t afford to go back if this paste and antibiotics doesn’t work. But seeing him so bad makes me just want to go to the vets and ask if they could put him down. I really don’t know what to do. I tried to clean his cage and as I was moving the litter box it nudged him very slightly and he collapsed on his side and was unable to get up from his leg being all stiff and wonky. I can’t believe when only last night he was jumping around.

He rests for 2 mins before he suddenly is up again hunting for food like he’s been starving for years. And no amount gives him any satisfaction (I know bunnies are greedy but come on)

On the paste leaflet I read about the Encephalitozoon Cuniculi and with his leg and his urine incontinence it sounds a lot like him, although it mentions nothing about weight, it does mention many problems with the liver, kidneys and I just can’t see where to start with the treatment if he is so far gone. I am not joking when I say his bones are actually protruding, when just 2 weeks ago he was pretty much obese.

It might sound silly but seeing him struggling and so weak is really hard especially since I have really bonded with him and simply having him with me has helped me through a lot.

[Sarita]

How would the staff at Petsathome know? Are they vets? When you mention you checked his teeth – how can you see the molars…vets use otoscopes to see the back molars and that is usually where the problem lies.

I don’t see how worms could be determined without a fecal exam – you’ve had him 8 months now so I don’t see how he could have contracted them now.

Have you tried syringe feeding him with a pellet slurry?

[MrsBeau]

There is a vetenarian section in the shop. And I went to the vets today, I suppose the vet should have checked his molars though he didn’t. But I personally made that assumption because I had seen him eating, I had fed him and I see him pooping too, a lot. So I assumed his teeth weren’t obstructing his eating. Though I may be wrong, I am not a vet, you are right.

I have not wormed him before so I think it’s a good idea to do it anyway. It is recommended even for domestic pets, so there must be a way of contracting them.

I cannot feed him pellet type stuff because he can’t tolerate them, even the smallest bits. He gets really muddy poop.

For now I suppose I can only wait and see how his medication works out. I am making sure he has fresh hay at all times and lots of different types of greens and veg, as I went to the shop today. Hopefully there’s some progress in the next few days

[Chronicambitions]

Can he tolerate alfalfa? Maybe to help with his weight?

[MoveDiagonally]

Can you give us an idea of what his diet is like? How much veggies do you feed and what varieties?

[Bam]

What an awful vet.

It does seem to be sth really serious going on. I don’t think a change of diet would help. Poor poor little bunny. I’m so sorry for you. It’s the dreadfullest thing, to see an animal suffer and not being able to help.

A house-bunny could contract worms from greens if there’s the slightest bit of earth left on them, but the risk would be small. It would be consistent with the ravenous hunger though, that happened to my old dog when she had worms.

I can only send you vibes, lots of them. Hope the antibiotics will help.

[MrsBeau]

Not sure, I will try alfalfa. Thanks

MoveDiagonally – I feed him basil, spinach, dill, lettuce (not iceberg), sometimes dandelion and mixed salad leaves. I also feed him some grass. I give him a mix of all of those, about a handful and a bit in the morning, and the same at night, but recently I’ve been feeding him greens even during the day when he has been ravenous.

Yesterday I even resorted to feeding him a tiny bit of oats with water as I’ve heard it helps them put on a bit of weight. I thought just until he gives the medicine a chance to work.

And thank you bam, thanks everyone for your support actually. I have had much more support and information and reassurance here than at the vets. I really appreciate it. I will update you guys in a few days and tell you how he gets on.

Here is Bo a few weeks ago.   (water is like that due to vitamin drops)

[MoveDiagonally]

Have you ever tried Kale and is it affordable/available? Recently I was doing some veggie research and learned that Kale has more calories than some other leafy veggies. 

EDIT: Bo is adorable! (I watched the video after I commented. ) 

[MoveDiagonally]

I re-read what you’re feeding.

2-4 handfuls of 4-6 types doesn’t sound like enough to me if he’s not getting pellets. Pellet free diets not only need a lot of variety for nutrients they need extra calories to maintain weight. The veggies you listed at all low in calories and fed in small quantities they might  not be enough for him to keep on weight. Hay is 80% of a rabbits diet but most of their calories come from pellets & veggies (in your case just veggies).

But I’m not an expert on this by any means. I would definintely find a rabbit savvy vet (that’s better than the one you visited) and talk to them about your rabbits diet so you can be sure he’s getting everything he needs.

Recently pellet free diets were discussed here:
https://binkybunny.com/FORUM/tabid/54/aft/124976/Default.aspx
Eucalyptus does not feed pellets and provides a lot of good info about it.

[Sarita]

MoveDiagonally makes a good point – I would try timothy based pellets if you were using alfalfa.

I do wonder too whether the grass you are feeding him is problematic as well…

My rabbit Bogie does not get pellets (he’s 10 years old though) and he gets plenty of greens – I mean a big huge bowl full.

[Sarita]

And the thing with oats – this is a carbohydrate and that can cause mushy poop in rabbits as well – not sure where people get the idea it can help a rabbit.

[NewBunnyOwner123]

Also maybe the vitamin drops might be causing upset too? I’ve heard to avoid the vitamin drops

[MoveDiagonally]

How has Beau been doing?

[MrsBeau]

Hello friends,

As I said I would update, I decided to stop by. Bo went through a real rough patch where just nothing seemed to be having any effect, even after finishing the antibiotics, however I continued to buy the paste for worms as I did find worms in his hutch as well (and of course gave it a proper clean with anti-bacterial and anti-fungal) and he has just finished that too. You guys are right, that amount of greens isn’t really enough, and since we have a garden that I realised is perfectly proofed, I started to let him graze for a little bit before putting him back in his hutch. I now leave the door open at times through out the day and he goes out to play and eat and then goes back in his hutch waiting for me. He is a very good boy. He is using his litter again. He hasn’t had trouble with his poop. And by some miracle he is even putting on weight.

I made this video for you guys:

Thank you

[jerseygirl]

He’s completely adorable and looks like he was enjoying himself. Glad to hear he’s starting to gain.

Worming might be a good idea to do bi-annually if he grazes in the yard. Is it Panacur Rabbit you’re using for him?

[Bam]

A lovely little film =) What a cute little nose he has. (The rest of him is of course cute too.)

[Author]

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