Spay,Bond, Neuter Dilemma

[Roberta]

OK, It’s time….My bonus has come through and I have 4 girls and a boy to be done and I have wracked my brain for the best way to co ordinate this. I could do with suggestions not only on the roster but what goodies to stock up on.

The cast of characters.

Nermal (Girl 1 yo) Seperate play area and cage adjacent to family pen. Hates her sister Pipi but seems to get on OK through Xpen with rest of family. Destined to be bonded with Pascal.

Pascal (Boy 9 mths old) Destined to be bonded with Nermal. Currently living in lounge room completely seperated from other bunnies. Especially the little girls!!!!!!

Pepper (The Matriarch 2 yo) Lives in family group with husbun Piglet (already neutered) and little girls Pipi and Blossom. Rules with an iron paw in a velveteen glove. Has to maintain position of power as Pipi is looking to usurp.

Pipi (Girl 1 yo) Very loving but would like to usurp Mummy Peppers power. Hates Nermal especially after peeing on head incident and Nermals retrieval of the much contested road kill skunk plushie.

Blossom (Girl 1 yo) Oh Blossom…. Very tense and always nervous. Loves her Daddy Piglet and is always ready for cuddles with her family but thinks the human is a monster intent on her torture and demise. Especially those deadly butt baths !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So who to do first… Mum suggested today that Nermal and Pascal should go first as they are already seperated from the main warren so there will be no loss of bonding and they can have a fresh start.

I previously thought Nermal and Pipi because of their antagonism but where am I going to put Pipi if she loses her family bond. Same for any of the main warren combo’s. When Pepper goes in I intend for Piglet to go with her and be present through recovery.

Any suggestions (not just on scheduling and intervals but what to have stocked up for recovery and rebonding if necessary ?

 

 

[Sarita]

I would do Pepper first since she is not spayed and she is 2 years old and her risk of uterine cancer is high.

I actually would do all the girls first and foremost then go on to the boys.

[Roberta]

I only intend to have a space of 1-2 weeks between each. My concern with Pepper is if I have her done first Pipi will take dominance and I will loose the primary bond.

[tanlover14]

I think you’re forgetting one MAIN point.

When bonding (after neutering and spaying) it can really go in completely different directions than you expect! =P

I’m going to piggyback on Sarita and say you should have Pepper done first. As they are spayed and neutered, you can work out which pairs work best. But I’m not sure they will leave you with the decision anyways!

[Roberta]

Pepper and Piglet dote on each other…. That’s one pair that won’t break… It’s the girls that worry me, plus space and extra recovery cages.

[Sarita]

The bonds may not break at all since they have lived together so long. I’ve had that experience as well. Your buns have been living together for awhile now.

[Roberta]

Seriously people, I am hanging in the breeze here…. Is their any suggestions for what sort of interval to leave between. Is it best for Piglet to go along for company. Any one else had to have 5 buns done within a short space of time……..?

[jerseygirl]

Really glad to read you are staggering the ops over a few weeks! It will allow for you to do any extra care if required (ie. force feeds). I hope you won’t have to do this and all goes smoothly!
So are you doing one at a time? 2?

I wondering if you could have Pepper and Pipi done on the same day? I had Maple and Potamus (mother-daughter) done together. They were bonded before it and remained bonded. After the op they just hid out in separate places in the room. It took about 2 days before they came back to normal.

Also, I would try keep your group together post-op. you might have to modify their environment somewhat. They only thing with this is monitoring the toileting becomes trickier. An alternative is have them together in a part time basis. So you could put the recovering bun back with the others straight away for they first few hours. Then overnight separate perhaps.

Having them together will have some pros and cons likely specific to your group. So it’s something you’d have to test and nip in the bud if you think the cons outweigh the pros.

If you haven’t had rabbits desexed before, is consider having Pascal and Nermal done first.
This might be a good way to go into it for your own sanity!!
Boys generally recovering quicker and with Nermal already being a single bun, you’re not worrying about bonds.
Those 2 should technically be your most straight forward and could be done & out of the way before the ones in your group.
Also good way to learn what to expect in recovery and find out what helps, what doesn’t.

With Blossom, I’m thinking maybe have her done last???
Only because she sounds sensitive and has added digestive issues. So it would be good to have time to devote to her care if needed without any upcoming ops hanging over you.

Just some thoughts…
You never know with rabbits. It might turn out those you thought might be problematic come through all this with flying colours. Fingers crossed!

Supplies:
-Critical care or grind pellets in coffee grinder along with some hay.
-oral rehydration fluid. Either from chemist or lectade. I bought lectade recently from the vet. It was under $10. You can get it in farm supply store too I think.
-a heat bag or hot water bottle. Can soothe swelling or help bring a bun back up to temp if struggling.
-antiseptic solution or cream. For incision site if need. Some buns will bother the site.
-pain med. hopefully your vet will supply some. They don’t always, depending on what the rabbit was given during surgery. Still, having 1 or 2 doses in hand would be useful for the buns or your cats. If you don’t use any take home meds for the first rabbit, you’ll save some dollars not having to buy any for the next one.

Can’t think of anything else currently.
You’re very brave. I don’t envy you at all!!!

[Roberta]

It’s doing my head in at the moment.
Piglet was neutered at about 5-6 months just before the first oopsies arrived. Pepper was supposed to follow then the second oopsies arrived. Then we got the stinking hot weather, tight finances then the roof fell in, literally, and I did not think it a great environment for a bun post surgery. It took over 3 months to get the ceiling reinstalled and was getting on well into September by the time they finished. followed by more financial strain then a very early and very hot Summer. This is why she made it to two unspayed. Problem is she shares the big playpen and two story bungalow with the tribe. Pascal is occupying the only single story non elevated dwelling. With the weather cooiling at least the sun room will be an option again. Just don’t know how to proceed, desperate to have Pepper done as I do not want her developing cancer.
I agree about Blossom, I thought I would take her in for a check up first now there are a few more vet options to get her teeth and tummy rechecked. I wonder if I can borrow another single story cage from the rabbit rescue for Pepper and Pipi. Maybe temporarliy remodel the bun room.

[jerseygirl]

Of course! i forgot youve had Piglet done so you have been thru this before.
If you have any dark nooks or hidey boxes on the floor level, my bet is they’ll want to go there. They likely will not want to jump in that first 24hrs.
What about borrowing some large carriers? You could set up individuals in one of those.

One thing I noticed with a bun I looked after last week post-spay was having the water bowl close by helped. She didn’t want to move far but when I put it next to her she took a few drinks.
She’s actually back with me
because she she licked at her incision and opened it a bit. But it is healing ok.
Re this, ask your vet whether they think a belly band (like vet wrap) would be worthwhile.

[tanlover14]

I agree with Jersey. Keep water bowl close – Sidney didn’t want to move around after her spay either.

Try finding cheap ways to house them, rather than having to fiance all new houses. Could you build some small enclosures with wood as sides and throw some towels down for them to lay on – they won’t need a big area since they’ll need to be confined for healing anyways. And for a week or two until making sure their bonds don’t break having some space set aside to let them each have run time. Maybe just make them some small confined areas out of everyday household items. There’s so many buns – it could be really expensive to try and buy individual enclosures.

I would still have Pepper done – with Pipi since that’s who you would like her to remain with. My Tans were together almost constantly besides maybe a month apart when we learned how dangerous it was for them to be together despite being young. But their bond never broke either – so Jersey could definitely have a good point there. Hmm, I would have them done in the order you hope them to stay together. I’ve heard that putting buns who have been done together can really get them close as they help each other through the healing process.

[FlemishMom]

Beautiful buns with a great mom! Good luck!

[Monkeybun]

I vote getting Pepper and Pipi done at the same time too. That way, less chance of Pipi being a brat and usurping power

[BinkyBunny]

I am terrible with sequencing; I feel like I have been through the “Who’s on First” bit, so my head is spinning. But I think I am in agreement with trying to get two done at once and I ditto Monkey’s and Jersey’s advice about Pepper and Pipi being done first.

The thing that unbonds a bunnies after surgery is the unfamiliar scent. So I would recommend that bring Piglet for the ride HOME with Pepper. That is what my vet recommends anyway. Then just be sure to rub your hands all over both of them thoroughly over any bonded bunnies to mix their scent so they are less likely to see the “surgery” bunny as a stranger.

Serious kudos to you for beginning the venture! Whew! Your bunnies are extremely lucky to have you.

OH, and BTW — it was great to finally have a breakdown of your fabulous fuzzy crew.  Loved it!

[Roberta]

Definitely leaning toward the Pepper and Pipi duo going first, Pepper being the matriarch and Pipi being the lady in waiting and plotting usurper. The logistics of it are more complicated but there are benefits too.
A source of NIC grids has been discovered in Qld (Sunrise Imports, reasonably priced and shipping is capped at $10 within Australia) so the potential to use NIC to temporarily reconfigure the living arrangements is now another option. Amazing isn’t it, the only state in Australia where it’s illegal to keep rabbits is the only place you can get the grids.

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