Old Injury – Californian

[LabAgility]

 

Hi All, 

I am new to this forum and hoping that you may be able to provide me with some information and insight.

Long story short: Somebody dumped their entire rabbitry loose at dark in a public park, infested with coyotes. Between my family and my brother’s we were able to catch 8 juvenile Californians and one adult, who came complete with an ear tattoo.

My brother’s kids kept two rabbits, we kept one. This happened a bit over a week ago.

The rabbit we kept is a juvenile buck and he lives in our house. Due to his circumstances we left him be to adjust to the household- we have two kids ages 2 years and 10 months old. He settled in remarkably well and even comes to the cage wall to visit with the kids. He has a healthy appetite and munches hay (timothy, oat, wheat) all day, plays with paper towel rolls, etc. After a few days we cleaned his cage and, while holding him noticed that he has an injury to his front leg- one that I assume is old as he doesn’t seem to be in any pain, even when manipulated.  

It’s hard to explain but its almost like he knuckles over at his wrist on his right front leg. The foot moves different directions, included folded under him when he sits. The muscle is antrophied, but he still attempts to use it when we let him loose in the xpen, but its more of a peg-leg.  There isn’t any heat, swelling, hair loss, etc. He doesn’t seem to give it a second thought.

A few rabbit folks we have spoken to suggested euthanasia of any rabbit with an injury… that isn’t our style and we have come to love Winston in a short period of time. We researched a vet who has rabbit experience, but they are only available on Wednesdays so it may take a week to get scheduled.

I’m not sure the prognosis of something like this. Will he need to have it amputated? How easy is it on a rabbit that undergoes an amputation? Is there quality of life is the limb was left intact?

We keep him in our living room, in a large tub style cage bedded down with care-fresh and hay. We cover his ramp with a towel and put the xpen on a cushy comforter for his outside time in the evening. He comes outside to munch his small portion of pellets and eat fresh veggies, returning to his cage on occasion to potty, munch hay and drink water.

Anybody have any thoughts, experiences, recommendations? This is all new to us… but we do love our new family member. Winston Fur-Chill has wormed his way into all of our hearts.

 

 

[Sarita]

I love the Californians – that is great that you were able to rescue him!

I guess I would say if the leg is not infected and he can move about just fine then there probably is no need to amputate – I would of course have a vet look at this and get a professional recommendation.

That being said, I’ve known many tripod rabbits who get along just fine – they may be more prone to arthritis as they age due to the way they put their weight on their limbs and body to stabilize themselves but they can have a very good quality of life as a tripod.

You would just want to make sure that you get a very experienced rabbit vet or surgeon to do this.

[jerseygirl]

Long story short: Somebody dumped their entire rabbitry loose at dark in a public park, infested with coyotes. Between my family and my brother’s we were able to catch 8 juvenile Californians and one adult, who came complete with an ear tattoo.

In many places its illegal to dump rabbits. Do the tattoos identify the rabbitry?
Fantastic you were able to rescue some!

I was going to say similar to Sarita. When the he’s older is when there might be some complications – but manageable! Being Californian breed, he’ll put on quite a bit of weight. I imagine the best outcome would be to preserve what he has of the joint and try correct it so he bear weight in more normal manner.

You might like to look over Cats, Rabbits and More website just to see how much can be done for rabbits with disabilities. http://www.catsandrabbitsandmore.com/disabled_rabbits

Anyway, welcome to Binky Bunny! Would love to see a picture of Winston sometime.

[jerseygirl]

Was an animal protection authority notified about the dumping? If some local welfare groups or rabbit rescues get on board, more of the rabbits could be rounded up.

[LabAgility]

Thank you for your replies.

In our area dumping rabbits is very much illegal, let alone insanely cruel! Gah…. don’t get me started. We did attempt to chase down the tattoo via our 4H office as well as the local fairgrounds but nothing came of our search due to record keeping. We decided to let it go and be happy that we found homes for as many rabbits as we did.

I am glad to hear that Winston does have a chance at a normal life- even if it does involve amputating. Our search for a rabbit vet has been through a vew people with rabbit experience. That is how we heard about this particular lady. The ortho specialist that we take our dogs too has one vet that will see rabbits but word of mouth seems to be avoid him. Such is the bane of living in a small town.

Thank you for the link to the website. I am off to check it out!

[LabAgility]

We did notify our county, but rest assured all of the rabbits that we were not able to get our hands on would have been eaten by coyotes. The area they were dumped in has a huge problem. I live very close and drive by the site all the time, I also hike there with my dogs. To add insult to injury the night that the rabbits were dumped was a full moon. All of the rabbits were obvious glowing beacons.

We have zero rabbit rescues and our local all breed dog rescue was also informed. Our animal care and control does not have anything in place to adopt out rabbits or do spay/neuters. I even informed the local SPCA, again… nothing in place for rabbits.

This area seems to view rabbits as livestock and highly replaceable. The folks here may take care of them, but instead of fixing a problem, the majority of them will opt to get a new one when its time. You’d be amazed at the number of folks who are shocked that we opt to keep Winston in the house instead of outside in a nice hutch.

[jerseygirl]

You and your family already have done so much.
A pity there’s not repercussions for the person(s) who thought it ok to do such a thing. :\

ETA: I didnt see your last post before. What a horrible situation.

[LabAgility]

The whole situation was tragic… we were returning from a grocery shopping trip and our kids were asleep in the truck. The rabbits were lucky, we never go shopping that late with kiddos. The first two rabbits we caught we drove back to town to my sister in law, then came back and caught more while the kids were sleeping.

I called my brother to ask him if my niece wanted a rabbit. Instead of taking the one we already caught he loaded his family up in the their truck and came out and caught more.

It was quite a site to behold, LOL.

We laugh because we went from not even contemplating a rabbit as a pet to housing many while rehoming and then adding a permanent resident who is special needs. It must be meant to be!

[Roberta]

Hi LabAgility, Wonderful rescue..
The one thing that really struck me with your post is that it’s not just you and your brothers family that rescued the buns but two whole generations have dedicated themselves to helping and protecting the helpless creatures out there, It gives hope that eventually those of us that treasure these small souls will outnumber the ones that treat the with indifference and contempt.
I would love to see a pic of little Winston and I don’t think being a tripod bun (if that is what has to happen) will bother him much with so much love around him.

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

Welcome!!!

WOW I just want to say what a fabulous thing you and your family did! Thats real heart

My rabbit Rupert was a stray and had a very traumatic but old break when he was taken in at the shelter; After I adopted him we visited the vet and had an xray to get a good look. Basically his leg broke completely and healed at a right angle, it’s his hind leg. I was offered the option of surgery to correct it-but yikes thats painful for anybody and what I read was bone surgery in rabbits is rarely successful because of the pain (They stop eating etc). He’s not in pain, he mobilizes a bit differently and can look a little goofy, but he’s just fine. I’ve had him for five years and it’s just the way he is. My vet said he may in old age need it amputated, but we’ll cross that road when we get to it. I suspect when you find an exotic vet for your new bunny to visit it will likely be a similar story

Keep us posted-and again-wonderful thing you did!

[LabAgility]

Thank you all for sharing your stories and giving us hope! I did find an exotic practice an hour away from us. They are trying to see if surgery can be done on a weekend so that we can take Winston to them. The local lady who has rabbit experience is still an option as she has been recommended once again.

Now we are trying to make sure that we can provide Winston with the life he deserves… which leads me to asking a few more questions:

Our house is small and shared with 2 young kids and 3 labradors so free range isn’t in the immediate future. Our plan is to Winston to a 48 x 30 wire dog crate because we have one extra. This will be in the living room. I have a platform already built from another project. It will requite a 1 foot jump— is it fair for a special needs bunny to jump like that? He seems to have the ability… be runs around annd binkies like crazy. Would a ramp be better? Also, what sort of footing would be good for him for the rest of the cage/platforms considering he knuckles over on his bum leg (which may not be an issue if he needs an amputation).

Now, I know the cage isn’t big enough but we make sure that he gets a minimum of 2 hours to romp around in an xpen. Most nights it’s in the neighborhood of 4 hours, but in the future could be more. The dogs and kids are adjusting to life with a bunny… the issue with the kids is that they LOVE him and get a little overbearing. Oh, the joys of littles!

So, is 2+ hours to romp around each day and a 48×30 wire crate in the living room ok? We are feeding unlimited hay – timothy and a oat/wheat grass mix. I have him on 1/3 c Fibre 3 pellets a day. We are also working on giving him more veggies. Is this an acceptable diet? His rear is clean and everything is normal. He grazes all day on his hay.

If you think that we aren’t able to take care of him appropriately I would attempt to get him into rescue. I did find one 3 hours or so away.

The irony is that this summer our nearly 13 year old 3 legged lab crossed the bridge. My husband and I note the irony of another special needs critter to take her place in the household.

[Roberta]

Sounds like you are taking wonderful care of him…. Veg is a good idea but introduce it slowly and just add one at a time in case something upsets his tummy then you can identify the culprit quickly. There is an excellent food list on the home page under diet and care.

[tanlover14]

It is truly amazing what you and your family did — as Roberta said, it gives me hope! You really are amazing people. Especially being willing to take in a special needs bun when you had never even considered a bun before!!

I think you’re doing an amazing job so far with the new bun bun! Most rabbits sleep quite a bit during the day. I would prefer this bun stay homed with you and your family as I feel a lot of rescues may euthanize a bunny with a long-term medical condition or problem OR it will definitely be harder for him to find a home. It sounds like you are doing an excellent job. As long as he has some hours of run-time each night, I think your bun will be fine.

[Sarita]

I think he’s in very good hands with you and you are doing a great job of taking care of him.

[LittlePuffyTail]

I just want to say Welcome to BB. And express my gratitude, as a rabbit lover, that you stepped in and helped these poor little bunnies. So many people would have just kept driving. Situations like this anger me so much. People can be so cruel and irresponsible.

It sounds like Winston is in great hands. I’m sure he is thankful. I love Californians. They are very sweet and easy-going.

Wishing you luck with your vet appointment and hoping his leg will not need to be amputated.

[LabAgility]

Thank you all for the feedback. I am glad that you think our set-up can work for him. I just want to make sure that he gets the treatment he deservers after being discarded so callously.

Winston has an appointment Saturday afternoon to have his leg checked. We went with our local vet, who turns out to be the vet who treated my special needs 3 legged lab. My other dogs have since migrated to the ortho practice as any issues they have had have been within that specialty. I really like the vet so I am hopeful that it works out.

I realized I don’t even know how old he is or if he’s old enough to neuter. GAH! Hopefully these questions get answered this weekend.

For our dog crate rabbit cage do you have any idea about flooring? I need something soft enough to help support him, that provides good footing and won’t let him lose his stellar litter habits. I have been noodling this.

My other question is the platform space. The kennel is 33″ tall and the platform space is 21 x 47″ – would you split the difference evenly or have the taller portion on the top? Or leave the taller portion on the bottom? As the platform is currently built there would be 12″ of clearance under the platform, which itself is an inch thick. The legs are PVC so it would be easy peasy to get new ones cut for the most appropriate height.

Thank you all for the encouragement and advice – I really appreciate it.

[jerseygirl]

How about rubber flooring? Like garage matting of those anti-fatigue mats you can get for kitchens?
Another thing people have used for rabbits with sore hock issues is memory foam bath mats. Apparently easy to throw in the wash.
If he proves not to be a chewer, that could work.

Some rabbits cannot resist peeing in absorbant surfaces so it may not be the solution yet… Lol

Personally, I would have the taller space in the upper part of the crate. Having the shelf lower would create a nice little nook underneath for him. They like to rest in places with something low overhead, but also like going up where they can keep watch/check everything out.
It would also be easier for him to get up into the platform and less impact on his leg when jumping down.

[LittlePuffyTail]

You could buy some Snoozzy mats. They are made for dog kennels and come in different sizes. I use these for both my rabbits and they are very plush and soft. Can also be washed easily. Just watch he’s not a chewer if you give him any type of material.

 

 

[LabAgility]

Jerseygirl, I was thinking much the same; Leave the platform as it is because although low, its enough room for him to get in his litter box and hang out. In fact, I put it in his expen last night and he layed down underneath it for a snooze. Obviously he has no issues with 12 inches of clearance.

My husband I are going to design a ramp for him, that way we know he will be able to get up easy. Last night he would put his front feet on the platform and look around. I’m not sure he knows that he can get up on things yet.

We left his xpen up and let Winston loose in the pen for an hour this morning. Man, can that bunny zip, dart, binky and run! When I see him in all his glory I have a hard time thinking he will need an amputation.

He is learning to love his veggie treats. Last night he ate a carrot top and we could tell how much he enjoyed it. I am honestly amazed at how much food one rabbit can eat!

[LabAgility]

Thank you for the memory foam bath mat and snoozzy suggestions. They both sound like they would be easy on his foot, if he’s allowed to keep it. Fingers, toes and paws crossed.

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

Sounds like he really found the right home!! Any chance you can upload pictures once his new digs are all settled with the ramp? I’d love to see the set up!! It sounds like your doing a great job

I like the idea of rubber flooring-we used it in our previous home in our rabbit room, and then you can put like a nice snuggly cushion on top (which can be removed and washed or replaced)-the flooring can be wiped and wet, and also provides great traction.

[LabAgility]

I need to learn how to post pictures here, but I will certainly post some.

Winston is a total sweetie and getting used to sharing his space with humans. He doesn’t come up to us for petting, but now has the confidence to let us walk by him when he’s out in the expen without moving, even if he’s sprawled out. I figure in rabbit language that is impressive indeed. He now comes out in the morning for an hour before the kids get up and enjoys 3ish hours out in the evening.

Any idea what sort of rubber? I thought about using a stall mat, but that is very heavy and I don’t really like that idea. I also thought about using mats for a childs play area and covering that with a rug… of course, I have to know that he doesn’t chew.

Tomorrow is the big day…. I am hoping for good thoughts. He deserves it!

[jerseygirl]

Best of luck Winston!

If you have photos on a photo hosting site, I find the quickest way is to copy the HTML code and paste it in the Quick Reply box here. Provided the image isn’t too big, it should show after you submit the post.

The other way is to use attchment feature in the regular reply editor. This is a “how to” guide.
https://binkybunny.com/FORUM/tabid/54/aft/120334/Default.aspx

Would love to see the dogs too!
Btw, rabbits can be clicker trained and they even have little agility courses for them. They’re surprising little animals.

[BinkyBunny]

Posted By LabAgility on 02/08/2013 11:57 AM

I called my brother to ask him if my niece wanted a rabbit. Instead of taking the one we already caught he loaded his family up in the their truck and came out and caught more.

I love that!!  Your family has a huge heart and this is such an endearing story.  Amazing really, especially since you live in a community that may not share your views.  You are so right, those rabbits you all caught were extremely lucky.  

And though while I would normally caution a family with small kids and animals to make sure they research care and are careful with certain interactions, you are completely aware and pay attention to important challenges that the “littles” and your dogs can pose.  You are already on top of it.   We have families with kids and dogs here too and so I am sure they will be able to offer ongoing advice if you need it.  And with your big hearts, I am not worried in the least.   I have no doubt you may come across some challenges here and there, but we are here to help. 

Let us know how the vet visit goes and keep us updated with everything. 

[LabAgility]

I have looked at the agility courses and watched a few youtube vids. Amazing. I am a total clicker training fan with my labs so I am not surprised it works for rabbits. My husband and I keep looking at each other saying, “who knew?!” When it comes to Winston and rabbits in general.

We are back from the vet, Winston handled his visit well. He weighs in at 4.08 lbs, definitely a juvenile but he does have testicles, LOL.

The vet thinks it is an old injury and that he can keep his leg. He uses it in ways he can and it does not bother him. She did suggest X-rays during his neuter so we can get a baseline for where he is at and see if its a lateral tendon issue or medial bone fracture. She also talked about aging and arthritis.

I was comfortable with the vet, she explained things as she went, showed me things to look for, was happy I was getting info from the house rabbit society, etc. She made sure that I knew not to withhold food from him and the bring food to get him eating as soon as possible after his surgery. She was happy he gets unlimited hay, etc.

We didn’t talk timing for the neuter, but I scheduled it for Wednesday. I called back to ask if we should wait a bit longer, but she was out of the office. What do you folks think of neutering him when he is only 4 lbs? He is young, testicles descended, etc. I am not sure he has fully reached maturity yet, he still has great manners.

From what I read Californians should be 4 lbs really young, but there is the issue of early care….. Pretty sure it was not awesome if they were all dumped. Perhaps that effected growth rate? She did say he’s a matter of months old but due to the situation wasn’t throwing around estimates.

Of course I will be following up with the vet, I was just wondering your thoughts.

Oh, today was bunny day there…. There were several others for the doctor scheduled after us. It was nice to hear we weren’t the lonely only rabbit.

[LabAgility]

Oh, and I am painfully aware that there really is no great combination when you put together littles, dogs and a rabbit. Nobody is really meant to be together.

Thankfully the dogs are all well mannered labs and not terriers. I swear Winston and my 10 yo male are buddies! The kids will continually get older, that helps! And, rabbits are most active in the morning and evening when my kids/dogs are mellow.

It will be a bit of a juggling act but we are already getting into a routine.

Winston is tired from his visit…. He is chilling in his cage when he could be out cruising.

[BinkyBunny]

Once the testicles descend, which is usually around 3-4 months, then neutering is fine. It’s the females that many vets tend to wait longer, around 6 months, to spay. Sounds like he is good hands.

And YAY about his leg!

Can’t wait to see photos of Winston!

[LittlePuffyTail]

I’m so happy to hear that he’s going to keep his leg!! Your vet sounds like a great one.

Good luck and speedy recovery for the neuter.

[Sarita]

That’s wonderful news – your vet sounds fantastic. What BinkyBunny said about the neuter too.

[tanlover14]

Awww, so happy he will get to keep his leg! Also, neutering earlier is a lot easier than females for spays so I wouldn’t really worry. I’m sure if the vet thinks it’s a problem she will stop the procedure before hand. It’s also a good sign that their were other rabbits around! So she probably has good experience with the bun buns! I’m glad she said not to withhold food – it’s always a huge red flag with bunnies and vets not knowing what they are doing with the bun buns.

I’m so happy your bun bun is making such a good impression on you and your family. And so happy you guys are taking the time to educate yourselves about it. Really, really great family you have.

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