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Forum BONDING Bonding Two Dominant Rabbits?

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    • Snowytoshi
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        So I have three rabbits: Toshi, Paige, Joshua. Toshi and Paige are already bonded, but I would like to if possible, make a trio. Here are their bios:

        Toshi

        Toshi is a one year and six months neutered male rabbit. Before being bonded to Paige he was bonded to a laid back male. He is dominant, but not aggressive towards his people.

        Paige

        Paige is a two years old spayed female. Her previous home was very neglectful, because of this she was very scared when she first came to us. When we were bonding her to Toshi she was not particularly aggressive, but she did hump him. She is now happy to wash him whenever he wishes.

        Joshua

        Joshua is a three year old neutered male. He was a very aggressive rabbit before we adopted him, he has since mellowed out, but has occasional moments. He frequently sneaks out of the bunny playroom and visits Toshi and Paige calmly.

        I know that this pairing is not recommended, but I would like to know if anyone has managed it or has any tips. Thank you!


      • tanlover14
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          Why do you say this pairing is not recommended, out of curiosity? They also say two boys are hard to bond and my two bonded boys are absolute LOVE bugs together.

          As for bonding into a trio — how do your other two take to the third? You said he gets out quite a bit and visits them. What are ALL of their reactions to this situation? It sounds like not much has happened between them or escalated? Just because a bun is aggressive towards a human doesn’t necessarily mean he’ll be that way to other bunnies. One of our buns is this way which is why I’m asking how they all have reacted towards each other when he’s escaped.

          Typically, when bonding a trio you can begin by bonding the new bun to both buns. This is what I did with my trio. Bonding sessions with each pair until they were comfortable then I began bonding sessions with all three together in a small area with lots of supervision.

          My bonded trio consists of two boys and a girl! And they are all very, very happy together.


        • Snowytoshi
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            I said that it is not really recommended because most shelters and sites say that bonding two dominant rabbits will end in bloodshed and is impossible.

            Paige tends to ignore him, but Toshi will follow him and will bite him when Joshua peers at him to say hi. It is worth mentioning that he would have done the same to Paige several months ago.


          • tanlover14
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              That’s not always true. Dominant buns can just be harder to bond, I mean… there are cases where that’s true but I wouldn’t let it stop you from trying to bond your trio. As long as they are closely supervised until fully bonded, nothing can go to bad. Have a spray bottle on hand so if they get into a scuffle you can squirt them to deter them from each other. I’m not a huge fan of people saying things are impossible as everyone seems to say that about bonding two male rabbits together. One of mine wasn’t even neutered when they became pretty much fully bonded. LOL. They were love bugs at first site.

              Ignoring is a really good sign! Sounds like a positive start for those two. As for Toshi and Joshua, this sort of behavior is very common in rabbits when they are trying to establish a hierarchy. My girl actually did this to my boy when she first met him. Was very grouchy and pushy towards him also. And it sounds like he’s just trying to do that again since he did the same thing with Paige. How does Toshi respond to this? Does he fight back, is he submissive, or does he just tend to ignore the action? Since there doesn’t seem to be any full out wars on your hands I think you have a positive attitude towards bonding your three. I would try some stress-situations with your two boys. Usually doing a bonding session in the bath tub or a car ride together. The thought is to stress them out so they feel the NEED to come together (since this is their instinct) to figure out any bad situation they may be in. It really helps a lot of buns begin to develop a sort of connection to each other.

              Also, now that I think of it … Toshi may just be doing this because Joshua is coming into “his territory” . You’ll want to make sure you keep Joshua out of Toshi’s area for now until you can work on furthering their bond in a very neutral territory. This will help eliminate any fighting that may happen over “their areas”. And usually makes bonding WAY more successful.


            • Snowytoshi
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                I did have two boys bonded once (Toshi x another boy) and it was the easiest bond I have done. It only took three sessions over a course of two weeks, despite the shelter staff telling us that it was impossible.
                When Toshi bites Joshua, Joshua looks confused and then hops off to explore. He seems curious about them, but not aggressive. I was thinking of doing the car trick, but I have heard that it can also cause them to associate each other with stress (this was from a lady who has bonded 7 rabbits together!), I’d also be worried that things would get very scary between them.

                I have also put Joshua, Toshi, and Paige in the bathroom (only neutral space left) on two seperate occasions. When I do this I put Toshi and Paige on a carrier and Joshua in another and allow them to sit side by side so that they get use to each other’s scent. I also will let one of them out while keeping th eother one in a carrier, when I do this they tend to ignore each other.


              • tanlover14
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                  I don’t really think that’s correct. As long as you make them associate good things with each other also they should be fine. When my “dominant” boy Fleury digs into or nips Tanger (the other boy) he often has the same confused look! LOL. I think you have a very good chance of bonding these three. Especially because it sounds like they would’ve fought already if the boys were really very aggressive towards each other. They really don’t seem to be.

                  If you don’t feel comfortable with the car ride idea, put them both in the bathtub and put one on either side. When they see each other, give them a treat or two to distract their attention but at the same time you will probably get a hint of their feelings. If someone gets aggressive, then separate them with your body and give them both another treat. Keep anything out that could be considered “mine” and see how they react. From what you’ve mentioned, I merely think Toshi just seems it as “his area” and Joshua as the intruder and that’s why he’s nipping him.

                  I would try and stop with the three together thing and work on your two boys the hardest. Paige is quite obviously whatever with the situation so, in my opinion, I would introduce her into the situation after your boys are close or bond her and Joshua separately without Toshi in the picture. Strengthening one bond may help with bonding all three finally. Since Toshi is quite obviously territorial I would try the towel trick. Put a towel or blanket in with Joshua and one in with Paige and Toshi. After a day or day n a half (just enough to get their scent) switch the towels into the other cage. This will help them stop viewing the area as “all mine” when the other bun comes around since they’ll slowly become use to the scent being permanent.


                • Snowytoshi
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                    Thank you! Those are all very good points and I will try to bond them.


                  • tanlover14
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                      If you need any other help or any other issues come up — feel free to make another thread or restart back this one up and I’ll offer any advice I can to the process. I’m HOPEFULLY adding a fourth bun to my trio this spring SO I’ve been doing even more research than the research I had done for my trio currently. Also, if you find a certain situation or activity helped with getting your buns closer feel free to make a thread about it! These types of threads really help other bunny owners that are interested in bonding!


                    • Snowytoshi
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                        I have my twp boys together right now, Toshi in an x-pen and Joshua loose next to him. I’ve blocked up the space so that they a very tiny amount of space in their sections, so that they do not have a larger space to fight over. Joshua has hopped over and tried to engage Toshi a few times, but since Paige isn’t there Toshi ignore him. Toshi has done a couple of flops and they both have washed themselves in a normal manner. Currently Toshi is meatloafed with his back towards Joshua <3

                        Would it be alright to try a 24 hour bond or would that break Toshi and Paige’s bond? Toshi and Joshua are being so nice right now and I’d hate to make them reset that by seperating them. Thank you!


                      • tanlover14
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                          Wait, I’m confused. So are they together or separated? Nothing can really break Toshi and Paiges bond, but I would be careful to stress either bunny out from being away from his bonded mate. If theres a barrier between the boys then this isn’t really “bonding” per say. You definitely want them fully together for bonding sessions so you can see their reactions to each other and then go from there slowly to what is most comfortable for them.


                        • Snowytoshi
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                            I put a pen between Joshua and Toshi next to each other so that they could see each other through the bars, sniff, and nip while keeping the fighting down. I felt that if I put them together right away both of them would be very stressed out, as Toshi tends to be very nasty if provoked, and Joshua kept trying to nip him. Since they were seperated by a x-pen Toshi chose to ignore Joshua’s nips and they both were happy enough to flop. I also put a clump of hay next to the bars and they ate alongside each other.


                          • Snowytoshi
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                              I am thinking of putting them in the same pen soon and having the shower running, which will hopefully cause a similar effect as a car trip would.


                            • tanlover14
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                                Have you tried putting them together yet? That’s when you will really see their attitudes together and can work on bonding them in a way that is needed for their reactions. Even if you only try bonding them together for 5 minutes every day. It’s a start.


                              • Snowytoshi
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                                  I have put them together, I’ve just been reluctant to triple post 

                                  Toshi has absolutely no interest in him and just sits in a corner either flopped or meatloafed. If Joshua comes near him, he runs away. I did not expect this reaction from Toshi, normally he is the ‘aggressor’. Joshua will meatloaf in the opposite corner of the pen, but eventually he’ll get up to explore. Once his exploring leads him to Tohshi, Joshua nips him.and chases him away. They have had a couple scuffles, but neither of them follow each other around trying to instigate something. Any fighting has come out of Toshi not moving out of a particular corner when Joshua wants him too 


                                • tanlover14
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                                    Awww, seems like the bonding is going relatively smooth so far then!

                                    My boys and girl sometime do something similar where they will dig the other one til the move if they’re in the way.


                                  • Snowytoshi
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                                      I’m not sure if I’m allowed to bump this topic or not, but since it hasn’t been more then two months I’m going to  

                                      I haven’t had much time to bond them lately, so I was a bit worried when I put Toshi and Joshua together. However they’ve been fine, I gave them some lettuce and they’d munch on it just so long as the other one wasn’t nearby. There’s also been a lot of sitting in opposite corners and ignoring each other. Joshua tried to chase Toshi a few times, but I squirted him with my newly aquired spray bottle; the last time I owned a working one was when I bonded Toshi and Paige and they had so many squabbles I broke it. Toshi has done a lot of flops and right now they’re sitting opposite corners with their eyes half closed chittering their teeth 

                                      I know I asked this before, but would it be harmful for Paige and Toshi’s bond to try a 24 hour bond with Joshua and Toshi? 


                                    • tanlover14
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                                        It shouldn’t be harmful to their bond. The bonding between Joshua and Toshi is going it seems but very slowly. And I’m not sure I would try a 24 hour bond with the tension between the two still there. I worry that during the 24 hours (I imagine you would sleep during this time?) they may break out in a fight from chasing. This could potentially lead to more harm than good.


                                      • Snowytoshi
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                                          When I bonded Toshi and Paige, I did a twenty four hour bond and I stayed up all night. They had some chasing problems in the middle of the night, but I was able to stop any fights from breaking out. The next night I slept next to them to supervise and slept very lightly because I was so paranoid about it. By the next night they were bonded. I’d imagine I could do something similar this time, though it might take longer.

                                          I should add that during Toshi and Joshua’s bonding sessions I keep them together for quite awhile because in the beginning they chin everything and nip, but after thirty or so minutes they start meat loafing and munching on the hay I put in the pen. Yesterday they sat across from each other less then half a foot apart and ate peacefully  Once Joshua figured out that chasing only meant getting squirted with the sprayed bottle he stopped. 


                                        • tanlover14
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                                            Ohhh! Well then. It may be worth doing!! I didn’t stay up with my trio until they were grooming and playing around fine with no incidents. But I’ve been told a MILLION times with bonding you have to do them in the steps you think fit your bunnies better!! I’m learning with bonding another one into my group that it’s all about doing them with what works well for each pair. And if they are doing well after a half hour, you may be ready! If it goes bad in the middle of the 24 hours, you can end on a good note.. separate, do a few more sessions, and try again!


                                          • Snowytoshi
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                                              I have learned so much about bonding rabbits since I got my first bun, Snowy, and I really have to agree about doing what’s best for them. We had taken him to shelter to meet Toshi and Snowy just hid in a corner so that Toshi wouldn’t find him. They had a couple tussles and the shelter tried to tell us that two boys were impossible, but we convinced them to let us take Toshi home for a trial run. I made them cuddle and they just smushed and ground their teeth, so me being the inexperienced bunny bonder that I was decided to just put them in Snowy’s cage right away. Thankfully Snowy didn’t mind that there was suddenly a new bunny on his turf and they never had a fight after that. I would never recommend that bonding process to other bunny owners, but it worked for them.

                                              The 24 hour bond with Toshi and Paige was the result of me throwing up my hands after six months of dates and deciding to take a chance. Now long dates for Toshi and Joshua seem to be working the best, lately they’ve been in the bathroom for five hour stretches. I monitor them to make sure they’re not getting stressed or fighting and by the end of the sessions they’re often flopped out on opposite sides of the pen half asleep.

                                              Sorry for the ramblings


                                            • tanlover14
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                                                I enjoy having someone to talk to about bonding! Especially multiple bunnies. It’s funny because what worked with my trio is turning out to work the LEAST for the four bunnies! It is sooo stressful. I forgot how much so. Until now. Haha! I’m always hoping someone posted on my bonding thread so I can get some more input or advice or anything or even just a positive comment. Makes me feel better about doing all this work. I even posted on BunSpace to look for more comments but no one has replied to that thread. Which is fine as I don’t recommend A LOT of advice people have received on that website.

                                                I’m learning the laundry basket doesn’t do well for Sidney and Simba but is working PERFECTLY for Simba and Fleury and has at least stopped the fighting between Tanger and Simba. The tub hasn’t worked for Tanger but is perfect for Simba and Sidney! It’s so confusing. I wish they could just talk to me and tell me what they want — and then TALK it out instead of duking it out with their teeth and feet! UGH.

                                                So are you going to try the 24-hour bond?!? I think you should just go ahead. Have you thought about putting all three bunnies together for a 24 hour bond to see how it works? The dynamics of the trio are MUCH different than in pairs.


                                              • Snowytoshi
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                                                  I mainly go on Bunspace to talk to bunny people about people related things. They’re all very nice, but some are a little misguided.

                                                  Honestly I have tried the bathtub when I bonded Toshi and Paige and for Joshua and Toshi, unfortunately the bathtub is very short and so they just hop out! They don’t even get scared when in it, if anything they fight more because of how small it is. Sometimes I just want to sit down and have a talk with them about their problems like you do with preschoolers who are fighting!

                                                  I am seriously considering it, it seems worth it, but I will have to move their x-pen into a different space as I have been hogging the bathroom with the buns. It won’t be hard to clean up Joshua’s room though and I can scrub his mats down so he doesn’t know they’re his, then put towels on the pen so they can’t see where they are. I do feel bad for Paige though, as she does get sad when her husbun isn’t with her, but if I do the 24 hour bond I’ll make sure she gets a lot of love from me.

                                                  As to putting them all together I am very uncertain about that because Toshi and Joshua aren’t bonded and Toshi has major territorial issues with unknown bunnies being around his bondmate. I was thinking that it might be better for Toshi to not percieve Joshua as a threat before I put them all together.

                                                  (On a side note, Joshua did a big roll and then straightened to a half asleep flop!)


                                                • tanlover14
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                                                    I know what you mean — the bonding with Simba has created a few fights between my trio so I also am cautious about putting all of mine together right now. As I think either Tanger or Sidney may get VERY defensive. As Tanger showed that aggression when we first brought Simba home and he just looked at him!

                                                    I would do a 24-hour bond with them and spend lots of time with Paige when you know it’s her active time so she doesn’t get too lonely or depressed. I don’t think it can hurt and definitely won’t hurt their bond. My buns kept hopping out of the bath tub too. Not Simba but the other three. We had to close the bath tub door and peek over the top so they couldn’t get out. I feel like it’s always harder to get them to focus on each other when I’m in their view too! They just focus on me! And I’m like NOOOOOOO.


                                                  • Snowytoshi
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                                                      We decided not to do the 24 hour bond unfortunately, we had everything all set up, but when we out them in there Toshi sat in a corner and wouldn’t respond to anything. When he would get up, he’d move very slowly, and he seemed completely miserable! That has never happened before when I have put them together, but it didn’t feel right. He had always been fine in the bathroom, but once I moved him into my room in the neutralized space his whole demeanor changed I will keep doing buny dates with them and I will also look at nearby rescues for potential bondmates for Joshua. I have the space to accomadate a fourth rabbit that is bonded to Joshua it is just the matter of finding one that will bond to him. I still really want a trio, but if that does not work then a fourth bunny is an option

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                                                  Forum BONDING Bonding Two Dominant Rabbits?