Phonebooks are great! Buns have a lot of fun tearing them apart. My little girl loves to go after a dictionary too. =p I would just be careful giving BB the dictionary because the ink used to print the words may be toxic.

hi again, everyone, bad news.... today i was over letting BB run around and play. he was being a really good boy, letting me brush him and pet him. he was running around a lot then he'd lay down and be really mellow. i was sitting on the couch and he was hopping around on there and all of a sudden he backed his butt up, stuck it out and shot a huge stream of urine down INTO their couch cushions... i was devastated! i've been watching him for a whole month play inside and on that couch and he's NEVER done anything like it before. he's started leaving little poops on there too. i guess we can all safely assume he's marking, right? i mean, he's smart and knows better. he uses his box just fine in his enclosure, and until now had pretty much peed perfectly on the newspaper for me. ugh, i thought we were doing so well... it was soaked, even dripped down into the crevice between couch sections, so it probably soaked into the carpet, which i couldn't get to. i texted the mom letting her know. i told her i cleaned it and that he was prob marking and would stop if they fixed him. i also took teh opportunity to mention "if you ever want/need to get rid of him let me know, i may know someone who'd take him." she wrote back "take the bunny." looks like i'll need to hope my source works out for finding him a new home i had asked a HS friend who has owned rabbits and she said one of her housemates might be interestesd but needed to check with her parents. i hope thisi works out. he needs to get out of there. if the mom isn't ever going to embrace him he doesn't stand a chance of getting all he needs, which she mostly is in control of. i just feel so bad! he seems so happy and comfortable being there and he likes all the other animals... it's his home

Once they start to mark you know they have become comfortable in their environment and reached that age where is time to be neutered. Keeping my fingers crossed your friends friend can take him and give him a loving home. Whilst he may be comfortable there now if he keeps spraying it won't be long before the Mum decides enough is enough and gives him to anybody who will take him or worse drop him off at a shelter. Far better to find him a good home now he will settle in again.

thanks roberta, you're right he'll be better off.  apparently she already has decided enough is enough!  in fact, i think she wanted me to take him all along, even before any peeing happened.  what you wrote weren't even some of my "worst case scenarios."  i could imagine them just leaving him somewhere, maybe outside or something.  i'm glad i made it clear that i'd help them so they don't do anything drastic like that.

You're doing a great job Becca, hang in there. I would get him out as fast as possible even if its to a temporary interim home. Would your Dad let you take him just for a few days or would it cause too much grief between you?

Smallish update: My friend's rommate is making a final decision with her mom this weekend, so I should know by Monday. Parents can be tough to convince, as I expertly know, so I am a little worried.

I also think that because they are now in the mindset of getting rid of him, they have gotten really lax about feeding him... ugh. I really can't get ahead with this situation. They ran out of his inappropriate "wildlife" food, and now he's just getting however much carrots/lettuce/celery they're giving him. I didn't know they were giving him anything so brought over several cups of red lettuce from my dad's fridge and a bunch of carrots. I mentioned buying pellets to Bella and she acted like "why would we do that, he HAS food, it's in the fridge." I even texted mom and said I was going to buy him a bag myself and if I could stop over to drop it off. Same apathetic, moronic answer "I can grab him something. He's fine. We're giving him veggies." It makes me wanna pull my hair out. Just wanted to double check with you all that he will survive the weekend on this minimal fare? Is that enough calories for him? I don't know why she's punishing BB further by refusing to let me spend my OWN money and take up my OWN time getting him stuff? Makes no sense. Also if I got him real pellets, would his digestive system be ok, since he's been used to the crappy seed stuff that isn't even for rabbits? When I was bent over his floor in the bathroom cleaning up a potty, he was pawing at me. I'm pretty sure he wanted food, he ate all my lettuce (Which was about two cups) all at once. Then he kept running back to his food bowl and he even started biting my hoodie sleeve while sitting on my lap, which really scared me! I'm chalking it up to the fact he wanted someone to give him food.

This poor bun -- it's such a heart breaking story. Getting greens like that MAY be sufficient but only if he also has an unlimited supply of hay, which I don't think he has. Quite frankly, without hay they are pretty much starving the little guy.

I really hope the friend can take him. This bun desperately needs to be cared for properly before it's too late.

oh my gosh, that's bad news... so even if i could get him a good kind of pellets, he'd still be essentially starving without hay? i might be able to swing one of the tiny packages they sell at petco, i think it's about 7$ for a tiny square - it's just such a huge ripoff, but it doesn't make sense to get him a 50lb bale at this point. it would be much more manageable in many ways... is it ok to just give it to him, or does it need to be introduced slowly? In case my one lead doesn't work out, does anyone have any ideas as to where I might look for a new home for him? my dad suggested fliers around town, but i don't want to give him away to anyone...especially since he would be free of charge and all, no way to prove they're committed or not psychotic.

ok so, i figure if i go to tractor supply co. i can get a ten pound bag of feed for 5 dollars, and they sell a 3 pound bag of hay for 6.99... i know if he needs 1/2 cup a day of pellets, a ten pound bag is gonna last over a month. how long do you all suppose 3 lbs of hay will last? it's a better deal than the petco hay. does he really need pellets and hay both at this point in time, or is the hay the essential thing and pellets he could do without? i don't mind buying both if he needs it, especially if it'll last a month or so and that should be enough time to get him out of there. i called a low cost neuter/spay program, but i'm waiting to hear back if they'll make an exception for a rabbit. normally cats n dogs. i also called 4H camp to see if they could somehow help as my dad recommended it.

OK, This is an outside chance but one more place to go. You can put buns up for adoption on Bunspace. www.bunspace.com enter a profile and put the word adoption in the title or create a rescue profile and list him for adoption. It's worth a shot. They also list shelters in all areas and may have some that aren't listed on BB. What state are you in ?

thanks, roberta.  i live in new york state.

Hi Becca, I know New Jersey is near New York so you might want to contact Little Miracles for advice or they may have a foster near you http://www.facebook.com/LittleMirac...bbitRescue
It must be more than a coincidence that I have been in contact with them recently. I saw a petition against them by some people but the petition lacked substance so I decided to dig deeper rather than sign it mindlessly like some people have. Turns out the claims in the petition are pretty spurious (petty and without grounds) and the shelter is actually excellent and currently in the process of upgrading and putting in a surgical facility (that is still under construction)
They are a great group of people and do amazing work. Several of my fellow advocates are staunch supporters including some who live in the area and have seen the facilities first hand.

This is incredibly sad. Especially since in many areas low-cost neuters can be had for under $100 and that would (most likely) solve the marking problem. It sounds like that little girl is growing attached to him and is willing to learn, but the mom is just not giving him a chance.

thank you for your empathy, beka... i feel like the weight of all this is crushing me literally. i was crying earlier when i called my sis at work and asked her to ask the mom (who she works with) again if i could get some food and hay for him. she flat out said no. not even no, thank you. it's like she resents me for getting involved, even though i'm stressing out working my butt off trying to find someone responsible to take him off her hands. just last weekend too, while visiting my mom's my boyfriend and i happened upon two amazingly affectionate, sweet cats who we later found out had been flat out abandoned three weeks ago... i swear it's unbearable. we set em' up in my mom's garage then found a good shelter to take them (good adoption rates!) for a 50$ fee. i don't mind helping out these animals, honestly if i can help it makes me happy to do so, but it sucks to have to go around cleaning up after other people's awful "messes," (esp when i can't help immediately, as in this case) and it's traumatizing too to have to witness this cruelty first hand. i'm not only sad, but angry with frustration at this point. i've never been so mad at someone in my life. i feel like after neglecting him his entire short existence, now that she's giving him up entirely, the LEAST she could do is let someone ELSE pay for some basic stuff for him in the meanwhile. i made it clear i am eager and willing to do so. my sis told me the mom said she would pick him up food later, lord knows what she's going to bring back... i asked my sis "and hay?" she repeated my question to her and i heard her say in the background "TAKE THE BUNNY, JUST TAKE HIM!" in apparent exasperation. perhaps she's misinterpreting my desire and sense of obligation to help him as me wanting to own him - not at all the same. i really think she may be insane at this point. what a terrible inconvenience i've caused her making her face up to her abuse and actually spend money and time to take care of a pet she got in the first place.

Thank you Roberta, if I don't hear back from those I've already contacted, I will look into them. I contacted several local rescues on facebook and at least one said she would spread the word.

If you can't find a permanent home maybe a friend or neighbour can take him short term especially if you offer to help with the food. I think you need to get him out of there ASAP.

What about your boyfirend, could he take him for a week or his parents if they knew how drastic things are ? Anything to get the bun out before this woman decides to do something.

i'm looking into fostering too. the only problem is he needs a cage and everything... my boyfriend lives 4 hours away unfortunately. i think my dad might have been willing to hold him for awhile if he wasn't aware of the fact that he's currently peeing on things. my dad surprised the heck out of me and actually told me he'd pay to have bun neutered...until he found out our vet would want 190 dollars to do it. so far can't find a low cost spay/neuter in our area that's willing to do a rabbit.

also would have to somehow get the mom to agree to apply for one, since my dad probably makes too much money to qualify for a service like that.

The hay is essential beyond anything else. If they are giving him veggies, then the pellets could possibly be done without but having not had a lot of them and not being introduced to them properly I worry all these new things would upset his tummy. Hay is essential though. With the hay and veggies, he won't starve or anything though. But they should ALWAYS be allowed hay. So I would definitely suggest hay over anything else.

thank you tan, that's exactly what i was looking to find out. i can definitely spring for a packet of hay for him. even if i tell her he needs this or that, she refuses to believe it! i am astounded by this bun's extraordinary resilience. you'd think he'd be showing signs of being unhealthy (the only thing i maaay have spotted is that the hair on his ears looks like it's thinning a bit?) by now. he has not had hay since a long time ago. i have been giving him 5-6 mini carrots a day and he eats them up greedily, it' s his favorite. he also has been eating a lot of romaine and red lettuce. his poops seem normal to me, although they seem to have doubled in size and become oval shaped?? is that a thing?

OK... So Dad is open to temp care if you can get a reasonable priced spay and a cage. Would the Mother let you take the dog cage she was going to use? Especially if it means her being rid of the rabbit. Contact Little Miracles and advise the situation and that if you can get a subsidized spay you can get him a temp home. They will have some contacts and can possibly arrange it for you.. If your Dad is willing to put up with his nasty habits for a day or two you can keep him in an area where he can't do much damage and just put down some plastic around the cage.

Sounds to me like your Dad is seeing the distress this is causing you and because he loves you is willing to try to help in stages. Why not sit down with him and just say "Dad, I am desperate, this is where it currently stands. The rabbit is starving and I am afraid the woman will dump him. I need some suggestions and advice and I am willing to listen to what ever you have but I can't walk away and leave this bun to die or be dumped, it would break my heart even more." You never know if he is completely focused on you and the problem he may think of friends or family that you had not considered approaching to take the rabbit, he may even say just bring him home and we'll work out the details but he has to live in the garage/shed/bathroom/broom cupboard.

Also one of the rescues or shelters may be able to lend you a cage.

Oh, and in the interim take a small baggy of hay in your purse each time you go over. The Mothers objection to the hay may stem from finding a place to store it and the mess it makes.

Posted By Roberta on 11/09/2012 08:58 PM

OK... So Dad is open to temp care if you can get a reasonable priced spay and a cage. Would the Mother let you take the dog cage she was going to use? Especially if it means her being rid of the rabbit. Contact Little Miracles and advise the situation and that if you can get a subsidized spay you can get him a temp home. They will have some contacts and can possibly arrange it for you.. If your Dad is willing to put up with his nasty habits for a day or two you can keep him in an area where he can't do much damage and just put down some plastic around the cage.

Sounds to me like your Dad is seeing the distress this is causing you and because he loves you is willing to try to help in stages. Why not sit down with him and just say "Dad, I am desperate, this is where it currently stands. The rabbit is starving and I am afraid the woman will dump him. I need some suggestions and advice and I am willing to listen to what ever you have but I can't walk away and leave this bun to die or be dumped, it would break my heart even more." You never know if he is completely focused on you and the problem he may think of friends or family that you had not considered approaching to take the rabbit, he may even say just bring him home and we'll work out the details but he has to live in the garage/shed/bathroom/broom cupboard.

This is where I'm at.  A temp solution until you can get him placed somewhere would be best at this point.

In general, people don't like being told what they're doing wrong.  She thought she's just getting a rabbit, throw it some food, and whatever.  Now you're making her have to face the type of care he's getting, and she just does not care.  

I wouldn't say anything else about the rabbit until you are ready to take him that day.  I think your dad may be your best option.  You can tell your dad that you KNOW he will need to be caged until he's neutered to minimize marking.  A few weeks of limited exercise isn't IDEAL, but sometimes you have to make sacrifices for the long-term goal.

thanks guys, i never would have dreamt of even broaching the subject with him - i know him too well. as per the stray cats i did, in typical me fashion, ask for his help and he said he'd pay the drop off fee if there was one, but "you know i can't house them, right?" i also tried feebley to get him to take the little female and he said no. i can imagine his thought process would be A: considering the damage he might do. as i never imagined trying to get him to take bun as a possibility EVER, i have been sharing with him all the difficulties i've had with him, including the spraying, how much work it his to clean up his newspaper area etc. how he went behind the couch and dug up carpet... then there's the issue i believe he's MOST concerned about: getting stuck with this rabbit as his own responsibility. and if he doesn't even want to add a cat? cat's are the easiest animals in the world. i love this bunny, and this whole thing has made me consider rescuing one or two when i am older and settled, but even i can admit taking care of him is hard work. i like to compare it to running around after a toddler or a puppy or something. he did offer advise of putting up posters/calling 4H etc. the shelter annex people suggested i just bring him to their main shelter "the important thing is to get him out asap. at the shelter he'll be warm and fed." well that idea frightens me horribly and i'd rather do anything else. i know both my parents, and even when they are leaning towards something like this it's a VERY hard sell. i think it plays to my favor though that it's been months and i've taken it all on my own and not asked him for anything. i can at least ask. we are technically supposed to pay "pet rent" which is basically stealing from people who love their animals on each one... my sis says she would take him but she's flat out not allowed any in her apt. and she's afraid of getting kicked out. you're right tan, i've really backed off atm as i can sense the mom is becoming impatient and frustrated and i don't want to push her over - she could just say "you're fired. don't come around the rabbit or my kid." then i won't be able to help him at all. berta, certainly i shall be sneaking him food. i don't give a bleep about this woman's pride. i don't care about what she thinks, i only care about BB. she can take that how she will. i'm not generally an extremist, but this situation is making me feel like breaking some rules...

i'm not generally an extremist, but this situation is making me feel like breaking some rules...

I feel the exact same way when it comes to the welfare of an animal. But sometimes you have to realize your limits. I want to thank you again for all you are doing to help this little bun.

Thank you LittlePuffy, that means a lot. I don't expect to be thanks, but it's always nice to hear.

I haven't had a chance to talk to my dad as he's been away for the weekend, so the jury's still out on that. No word yet from my friend's roommate though the weekend is long one this time...

Learned a small tidbit and I had to share it with you all, since you've basically all been through this with me, I knew you'd all be equally repulsed. I was on a cartrip with my sister yesterday and we were talking about BB and Bella. I brought up how strange I thought it was that Bella was all "did you hear back from your friend?" "your mom told you about that, you're not upset?" "Nope." Completely unfazed, unbothered, not at all what I expected. I thought she'd at least be a little upset, i know i would be. My sis confessed she'd kept the reason for this from me so as not to upset me but... Bella's mom told her that if they got rid of BB she'd get her a hamster. Can you believe that? Sick minded and very callous. I feel for that future hamster... I told my sister we should give all the pet stores in the area the mom's picture and name and tell them not to sell any hamsters to her.

That's awful. I feel your frustration. A barn I used to keep my horse at had a little hutch rabbit. It was totally neglected, I was the only one to ever care for him and show him attention. The little girl got "bored of it" so they stuck him behind the barn and bought her a hamster! What is wrong with people????? I was, luckily, able to find a nice home for the bunny and Cuddles is now a house rabbit living with my friend.

This isn't surprising. The mom probably felt that a "replacement" was in order to appease her daughter. Rabbits are often gotten as "easy, starter pets for kids", but then when they realize the work involved, they feel a "downgrade" is necessary.

I will say that a hamster is an easier pet. A rabbit has similar care requires as a dog or cat... a hamster does not. They need food, water, and a clean cage. I think a hamster should have been the original pet choice in this situation. Pretty much everyone I knew growing up (myself included) started out with a hamster. Unfortunately, I think that she'll be relatively bored with a nocturnal pet after having a more interactive pet like the rabbit. But... who knows?

my friend's roommate option fell through. this weekend i've been calling everyone i know, rescues 2 hours away i'd be willing to drive to for him, shelters. i've been driving myself nuts with worry. so i text the mom a few minutes ago telling her the sitch and she tells me she found him a home... wow. thanks for letting me know. i've only been killing myself trying to find someone to take him and worrying about it, because she TOLD ME TO FIND SOMEONE. when she said that my stomach just dropped. here is a woman who was previously abusing her rabbit and considering keeping him outdoors all winter until i came along, being responsible for finding someone else to take him for her. that doesn't seem like a very productive situation to me. this is one of the things i was worried about. all she'll tell me is that it's "someone my mom knows." i didn't know how to ask her if she had informed them of his urination habits or that he's not neutered. i can totally see this new person getting him home, finding out he pees all over their stuff and shutting him outdoors, keeping him in a cage permanently, or dumping him. i told her that if it doesn't work out with them i'd take him. i doubt she'll tell them that. i also told her a vet that'll do a bunny neuter for 65$, no prerequisites. i was considering taking him to get neutered myself if he didn't find a home soon. i don't trust this new person one second. but how can i ask laci (the mom) if the new person knows all the things a bunny needs/how much investment is involved? she doesn't care in the first place!!!! that's why i wanted to be in charge of finding him a new home. i bet she purposefully didn't tell them he's been marking. why not just bring him to a shelter rather than send him into someone's home and not prepare them for the inevitability that he'll pee on their stuff. they're just going to dump him again! i should have just taken him in like everyone said no matter what when she was still willing to give him over to me directly, now it's too late and who knows where he's going. i don't know how to deal with this, it's just heartbreaking. after everything i've been through with this rabbit, to think about him going somewhere laci has chosen... somewhere worse. it almost feels like she's doing this (or at least keeping me out of the loop) to spite me. maybe i'm just over-worrying this and he'll be ok - but i'd hate to think what will happen if laci didn't tell them about the marking thing. they'll be so angry.