ah, holes in the plastic makes sense!  no haha it does not gross me out at all.  i've been touching his poop with my bare hands at some points lol (i wash them of course!!!!) i was just thinking it's sad to have to throw some of it away when he needs to eat it so badly and has none at the moment...thanks for finding that info out for me, i could def spare four bucks...only probably is of course it is short term - the actual owners would have to start buying it at some point, but maybe if they knew how affordable it could be they'd be more apt to do so.

 

i'll have to look up farms nearby - can you just go to a local farm?  there sure are plenty around upstate, and i do live about 20-25 minutes from saratoga, so that's close.

 

ps. i don't know what kind of rabbit bun bun is...he's about medium sized, black, with hanging ears!  and possibly a girl, i don't know!

Look in the local paper in the classfieds for ads regarding "hay for sale" etc - or if you have a Tractor Supply store nearby, they can probably tell you where to buy some. Or if you know anyone who has a farm? They would probably sell you some or even give you some. I'm lucky, my boss has a small hobby farm, and he keeps me supplied with hay at no charge. He gave me a small square bale about a month ago, and I'm only half way through it - though that may change as my bun gets older and eats less pellets and more hay....

I do supplement with Timothy hay that I bought at our Theisens, which is our version of Tractor Supply... I hope it works out, Rebecca, for this bun and the family. It's a big responsibility for a child that age if the mom isn't that involved in the process. I had a guinea pig when I was her age, and I know NOW that there were things I should have done differently that would have made his life a lot better.

i had a guinea too, and let me tell you, my parents did A LOT of work cleaning his cage every week. i played with him a lot and fed him, but they did all the truly hard work (which was probably a mistake my dad admits.)

so sorry to keep blabbing and bugging you guys, but i was just chopping a watermelon and was about to throw away the rind, when it crossed my mind to give it to bun to chew...? watermelon/rind is not on the good or bad fruit/veg list... would that be a good idea? or a very bad one?

Becca -- YOU LIVE IN UPSTATE NY?! I'm from Upstate NY! I'm sure you can find some good quality hay being from around Saratoga! Horses, horses, galore!

I'm so happy you are attempting to give this bunbun a better life!! As for the watermelon, correct me if I'm wrong guys, but I THINK watermelon is safe but isn't one of those things you really want to give them much at all of because it's considered a "treat". I haven't really heard much concerning watermelon though so I could possibly be wrong? What do the rest of you think? I wouldn't really advise giving it to him since you're not there really to supervise whether he reacts poorly or fine to treats. I also worry that if the little girl sees you giving the bun watermelon, she may decide she should do it too... and all I can imagine is her giving him too much and his poor tummy not being able to handle it and god forbid, if you're not there to help him!

I would suggest only giving him veggies that have some nutritional value for him -- like herbs or cheap lettuce. Kale should be pretty cheap also, even if you only have a dollar to spend! I can get it for $87/pound for a whole head and I know the prices in Upstate NY aren't that different from Pittsburgh (where I live now).

Hi Beca, If you give him lettuce make sure it is not iceberg or any of the pale leafe lettuces.... Also do you have a garden, check out the BB diet list as you may have plants on hand that are approved and free, like Nasturtiums, Parsley and mint. Always introduce new foods slowly and one at a time as diarrhea is a problem for bunnies and can lead to dehydration, stasis and death. Bok choy is also good for them and usually very cheap to buy, lush grass is free if you have it in your garden just make sure it is washed really well first like all vege's. Rose petals and some other flowers also make a nice treat. Do not feed potato, avocado or pale lettuce its really bad for them.
When you say Winter cold are we talking snow or just really low temps ?

Roberta -- Upstate NY has really low temps -- ranging from 30's to around 0 and lots of snow!

Being from Upstate, I definitely do not think it's safe for the bun to be left outside all winter. It gets really cold and windy.

Thanks TL, Makes it easier to understand.... I have the Gibson desert to the East of me here so Winters whilst wet and chilly are general pretty moderate. (I still wouldn't leave a bun out in it though.)

haha yep, lived here my whole life!  i went to college at suny geneseo and darn guys, tanlover's not joking, it gets COLD here... my boyfriend's pal went to college in pittsburgh!

 

in terms of watermelon i was planning on not feeding him the fruit but allowing him something to gnaw on with the rind.  the only issue is...how do you prevent an animal like that from swallowing something??  i don't know rabbits or this particular animal well, but i imagine they might bite you if you forcibly tried to remove something from their mouths.  my dog/cats will let me do that, but even then it's hard.  especially if he chewed it for awhile!  i'd have to keep reaching in his mouth. another problem we had today was that he snuck behind the couch and was digging up the carpet attempting to burrow...  anyone have ideas on a makeshift burrowing apparatus?  like a box o' dirt or something?   he also got startled whilst urinating on his paper and jumped, unfortunately causing the urine to splatter on the wall... the little girl kept wanting to put a harness on him and i was like "nooooooooooooo leave him alone."  the rabbit is easier than the child, for sure !

 

even if winter here wouldn't make him sick, it's pretty effective in rousing the kid into action i'd say.  it's really ultimatum time.  the other day i told her it was not good that he didn't have a bed and she said "why does he need a bed?"  of course i responded "why do YOU need a bed"  jeesh, some people.

Really? I went to SUNY Brockport!

I would find some good untreated wood for him to gnaw on -- it'll help him keep his teeth trimmed so he (hopefully) doesn't develop any dental issues. Watermelon rind won't really do anything for him and I think he'd just end up eating it anyways. Could you find an old or new phone book to give him? It does wonders for allowing them to burrow and they LOVE tearing them to shreds. I haven't seen a bun that didn't love it! Also, I've had this same issue with my buns and I solved the problem by simply giving him an old towel to dig the crap out of. All 3 of mine go BONKERS over towels to dig into!

Goodness, I really wish this mother would do something! Ugh -- her child is going to grow up to be just as irresponsible and ignorant with animals as her! Drives me insane!

suny brockport, that is awesome!  yay suny!  my bofriend and i met at Geneseo .

 

 

i was just talking with him on the phone last night about how strange it is to be in charge of babysitting this girl.  and i've been instinctually attempting to basically "raise" and mother her, by instilling all the important things i've learned through my life - and take care of her.  but it is a strange juxtaposition because, though she is only a child, she just happens to embody all the foolish ideas and instincts that are everything i most despise about the world.  i know none of you know me well, but if you did you'd know that the issue of pet overpopulation/spay-neuter education/pet abandonment/abuse/neglect as well as environmental/wildlife conservation AND the improvement of the meat animal industry are all things that are the most important to my heart!!!!  animals are my number one cause.  so you can imagine how totally disgusting and frustrating this situation is!  i told her about his binkying to cheer her up and now she thinks that means he loves it there and is totally happy the way he is...i already tried to explain to her about pet overpopulation and why it's bad for people to breed animals.  then yesterday she tells me this (paraphrasing):

 

"reese (her older cat-sweetest cat in the world) is going to die soon, because she's old now.  then i wanna get a girl dog for Bailey" me: "what's bailey need a girl dog for?" her:"to have puppies (sheepish grin)" me:"Bailey is fixed, he can't have puppies." her:"ok so then i'll wait for all my pets to die and then get a boy AND girl dog unfixed so they can have puppies!"  me:   i literally made her pinky promise she would not do that.  my mom said i should (go the PETA route) take her to a shelter so she can see all the sad, caged animals who already exist and need homes.  i actually did explain to her about how many shelter animals are euthanized yearly.  maybe i shouldn't?  but she is so desensitized and oblivious...i think i could maybe make her care!  turn her into an activist!

 

it IS frustrating because the problems run so deep here.  she's already ten and these things have been conditioned into her.  and it sickens me and breaks my heart that this poor kid is just going to become another ignorant, irresponsible adult, when the world is chock full of them.

 

i can't remember if i told you all this bit yet, but the kid didn't even ASK for a pet rabbit.  and the mom got him for free from a friend... who is apparently going to take the rabbit back briefly to get him fixed.  hopefully by a VET   again, thanks for listening everybody.  i'm mostly venting a lot so feel free to just stop responding at this point lol, sorry to talk your ears off but it feels good!

Wow... that little girl... it's so frustrating! Whyyyyy do people instill this stuff in their kids? I don't understand. Everyone wants their kids to grow up to be good people but it's like they expect it to happen without any sort of guidance. She sounds so negligent in everything in her life!

This poor bunbun. Sometimes the hard reality is what kids/even adults need to finally understand. I don't think it's a bad idea at all. She sounds like she just THINKS the world works how she wants it to and doesn't think about consequences of anything -- since her mother has obviously never taught her. This is so disturbing. Pets are such a perfect way to teach your children responsibility and caring about animals, ect. And this mother takes both pets and daughter like it's a joke or something.

I'm trying to think of ways to help her understand. I feel like if her rabbit dies, the mother will just get a new one or blow the whole situation off... and then the daughter will never even learn that the animal died because of how little she cared about him! UGH.

I'm sure everyone agrees that they are happy you are spending so much time talking about everything -- I'm KNOW I'm not the only one on this forum worried about this little guy and if you disappeared we would ALL wonder about him. So keep the info coming!

You're probably instilling more values in her than you know. I'm sure if you keep with this little girl you will make more of an impact than you think.

I think taking her to the shelter is a great idea. She can see where puppies go when they're no longer wanted. I've been thinking about stuff like this a lot lately and I think I'd be ashamed of myself if I ever got a puppy/kitten instead of a pet in need. I always go to petsmart when they have the shelters there and every one is fawning over the teeny puppies and the playful kittens, but the dogs and cats who REALLY need homes are overlooked. Our rescue here is giving away dogs to good homes, and I've seen the same one at petsmart for the past month probably because he only has 3 legs and he's not "perfect". Another instance is this cat a family is giving away because they're moving. A friend posted a picture on facebook, her friend commented that it was a cute cat. My friend asked if she wanted her since she needs a home and her friend responded "nah, too grown". I almost went off on her.

Lol, there's my vent

I hope you keep us updated!

i agree, zoo.  my whole childhood, we always bought our dogs from breeders.  the only animal we rescued was my sister's shelter cat.  i still don't really know why - i don't know if my parents weren't aware or if they just didn't think about it.  i have to admit it was fun having a purebred when i didn't know any better... to this day i like studying dog breeds and profiles and origins simply as a hobby.  but i'll always adopt from now on as an adult, and my parents will too.  when i was 19 i convinced them to look into a shelter dog.  result:  my best dog Dani.  she came from a high kill shelter in Kentucky, where she was found wandering the streets at about 6 or 7 months old.  when we got her home she didn't know how to climb stairs, and never had seen her own reflection!  my dad kept her after the divorce and he's obsessed with her.  it is true, as an abandoned animal she has some neuroses, but i can't imagine not having her!

 

my mom bought two purebred ragdoll kittens awhile ago...the first is my cat mischa (i wanted a cat so badly and my mom talked me into a ragdoll, which i regret, though of course i love mischa with all my heart.)  the second was shiloh.  i hate my mom a bit for that because shiloh was completely her idea, and isnce he turned out sooooooooooo different than his breed profile my mom regrets getting him and always talks about giving him away.  it's true, he's not the nicest cat, he is grumpy, doesn't like to be touched much, and he bites esp. when we do his nails.  but i love him anyway!!!!  plus he's a huge clown.  my mom's other two cats are shelter cats that i begged her to get and they ended up being the most sweet and affectionate cats of the bunch, jack and tiny.

 

personally, i prefer adopting grown up cats!  it's easier to tell what their personalities will be like.

 

RE: bun bun (that's actually his name lol) is doing well for the time being.  i brought tons of newspaper from the store and he's been peeing on it like such a good boy (btw y'all, i THINK i spotted testes on him while he was hopping) just need more paper towels to sop it up before it goes all over.  also, he gets it all over him since he is just sitting and peeing and it pools around his butt and feet.  i told B i was proud of her for taking better care of him - i think a little positive reinforcements are needed too.  he was reallu burrowing hard into the couch,, which was fine but then he started chewing on the blanket i used to stuff between couch and wall...it has fleecey material on it so he def shouldn't do that.  how would i stop him though?  B says he freaks if you pick him up (what if he jumped out of arms and broke something?  part of him?)  and i'd be scared to put my hands in front of him that he might bite me.  b used a broom once to guide him out of the couch/wall area and he attacked and bit it!

You could try coaxing him with a piece of his food or a little bit of herb that is nice and fragrant like basil. By the sounds of things they won't have any herbs in the house so his normal feed would be the best idea in that case.

Definitely do not pick him and teach the little girl that picking him up is very dangerous -- for him and her. Rabbits can kick hard enough to break their spines and kill them. And dropping a kicking rabbit is very easy if you don't know how to properly pick one up (and hold one) as he finds you like a wild animal. Hahah. Most buns HATE being picked up and from the sounds of his situation, I'm pretty positive this bun does too. It's very important not to pick him up.

I would suggest anything you can herd him with if you don't have any food. If he is young and on unlimited pellets than pellets probably won't work. My buns were like "Really? That's what you're going to try and convince me with?" when I did that to them.. but he might! Anything that you can use to herd him where he won't herd himself is probably your best bet. A cardboard box that's been taken apart on the top and bottom so you can just put it around his butt and nudge him forward.... we had a small tiny fence that we got from petco to do that with (about $10) so anything that can be shaped and made to look like that's structure really! I would suggest teaching the little girl to use THIS safe way of moving him also.... so he doesn't get terrified and become scared of humans. Rabbits just take so much work and one step backward can be permanent if it's instilled in their minds as a very bad experience.

those are both great pieces of advice, thanks guys! tan - yeah i wouldn't DREAM of picking him up after reading how easy it is to damage them. jeesh, no thanks! i think she's picked him up in the past (otherwise how would she know he hates it!) but every time i've mentioned it she just says "no, he hates that" so i think they don't ever do it. i just see that in some people's pictures (like isabella) people holding their buns and the bun seems happy...but bun bun seems very uncuddly... he clearly likes to be in the room with us, but like some cats he doesn't seek us out for petting or anything. yesterday we set up a lot more newspaper and he spent the last half hour just sitting on the paper and chewing on/eating it, which i also hope is ok btw.

tan- he actually does not even eat pellets...for the time being and lord knows how long he is/has been receiving a wildlife mixture, intended for small wild animals like squirrels and rabbits... it even says on the bag "YO this is for WILDLIFE NOT PETS!!!" i saw two empty adult rabbit food bags which had a mix of pellets/tim hay/and nuts/seeds. i remember reading something that said to avoid rabbit food that includes nuts/seeds, so...i guess she must have seen the wildlife food, briefly noticed the word "RABBITS" out of context, and said "hey this is cheaper, let's just get this." B was on the phone with her mom and asked if they could visit the grocery store for bun. the mom said she'd pick up some lettuce for him maybe. i said "tell her to make sure it's a dark leafy green, like romaine, spinach, kale!" she repeated after me word for word lol. i think good things are happening. i'm just afraid for bun down the line if their financial sitch gets worse...or if bun lives until the girl is 18-20 and she moves out what will happen to him. i have nightmares of them releasing him into the wild or some such nonsense. once i'm not there to light a fire under her butt and provide support and guidance the way a mother would/should, i also don't know if B will have the will to continue our good work on her own. as some have said it's a huge responsibility for a child to bear alone, plus i sense the issue of laziness. even if you depend on your kid to be responsible for all the rabbit's maintenance and care, you surely can't expect them to be fronting money for vets/meds/food/litter etc. not a ten yr old!

I'm glad to hear the little girl is starting to become more interested in her buns needs... that's a really good sign for a child who's never been brought up to be like that! I really hope she keeps it up.

As for a lot of pictures of buns being held -- it's because these humans have established a good relationship with their buns. To do things like this takes much time and patience. It's definitely hard work to get your bun to trust you enough to realize you're not going to hurt them. And usually even these buns still fight when you first pick them up and only get comfortable when you situate them into a position where they feel very comfortable.

Good news everyone! well, sort of... i spoke with my sister last night and i mentioned bun again and she was like "that's all you guys talk about! just take him already!" i was like "what? she would let me do that?" sis said "yeah, she said she's going to look for someone to take him since YOU told her kid 'you have to either bring him in for the winter or find someone to take him'" !! HA! i guess i have an enormous amount of clout with these people or she just was looking for an excuse to give him up and i gave it to her. i guess that means she won't budge on bringing him inside then. the trick now is making sure she CAN find someone and that they actually know this time what they're in for. preferably someone who's owned rabbits before...also one who is willing to accept him unfixed. i feel really happy this might happen and also horribly sad... figures, now that i've done so much work to make B so much more INTO her rabbit and caring of him, now she's going to be forced to give him up! it'll be for the best, but still sad... hopefully she will not somehow end up blaming ME. i will also miss bun bun. i find i look forward to seeing him every day and getting to know him better. it's weird i won't see him ever again. i think we've sort of bonded a tiny bit, he likes to convene around my feet lol. i like him a lot.

BTW i posted a picture of him on my profile page, if you all want to see him! i think he's very cute. i was trying to decide if it was right of me to post someone else's rabbit but... given the situation as we all know, i doubt the mother would care at all. enjoy his cuteness!

Awww...he is really cute!

The poor little bun. I really hope she can find someone who will give him the love and care he deserves.

He's such a cutie. I'm glad that the woman is willing to give him to a better home finally. Too bad no one from BB could take him in and keep him/foster him.

Can your sister take him or convince your dad to let you take him? Part of me thinks you want this bunny, but part of me thinks you just want him to be happy. But if your sister is even telling you to take him because you talk about him so much maybe she could help you out in the daddy department???

I dunno, maybe I'm spoiled but I usually have to bat my eyes and say "daddy, please?" and I get what I want. Actually, that's a lie. My dad made me keep my ferrets outside when I visited for christmas. I need to start working on him now to have him let me bring Finn home, lol...

i think he's cute too! he's starting to get pretty aggressive though with them testicles still intact and all... not with people but in general behavior.

i think my sis was exaggerating how much i have invested in him when she said "why don't you just take him already!" i actually told my dad she said that and he got that really pissed off expression and said "jeez thanks a lot, Ab." the truth is zoo, i care about every animal i've ever met or seen. i love them all and i get invested in each and every one. that doesn't mean i'm able personally or financially to adopt and care for them all, unfortunately. i do kind of wish i could in the sense of being able to oversee his care and KNOW things were happening properly. but on the other hand, i'm trying to save up money right now - i'm looking into grad school for the very near future. my current life situation is completely in a state of flux and i am not in a stable position to really consider adopting any pet. as i said, it might actually strain my relationship with my dad to the breaking point of him kicking me out. my sister probably would take him if her apartment allowed animals, which it doesn't. but i will continue to monitor his care while i am able and will definitely be in communicaiton with her about who she might get to take him. i know of two very nice, sweet little girls that B is friends with - they are nuts for animals. the only issue is they kind of already have a cat and two hamsters, but you never know. i think that would be a great middle ground! as i said, my dad kind of already IS spoiling me a lot- he doesn't make me pay rent, even though i am very much an adult, he pays for all the groceries, he offers to buy me things like hiking boots so i can exercise better... the last thing i want is to take advantage of his kindness and leniency and to press his patience.

I understand your position Becca. It's great that you respect your father and don't want to strain your relationship.

oh. my goodness. mama, your rabbit is so CUTE and chubby looking lol. he's got a much fuller coat than bun! probably because bun is still in puberty. thank you, i hope everyone understands that i would take bun if i could. i did not bring him into the world or into my home and though i want to help, it is not my burden to carry alone. i can't possibly feel completely responsible for every idiot's neglected or abandoned animals, i'd go insane! one thing i've gained from all this is that i now know A LOT about rabbits and their care/personalities. i didn't even know if they were intelligent creatures or not, and now i am a fan of the rabbit! (my chinese zodiac sign is also, coincidentally, the rabbit ) i also now dream exclusively about rabbits.

About the puppies thing. I have kids tell me every day how their dog had puppies and their cat had kittens and blah blah blah. I wouldn't blame this girl for being excited about the idea of having puppies. Heck, I probably would have been excited for that when I was a kid too. Thankfully my parents weren't like that. All of our dogs/cats were fixed. This isn't to say that I am not frustrated when I hear this. What infuriates me though is when they talk about someone in their family abusing a pet or harming a wild animal. That makes me really sad because a lot of the time these kids have no idea that it is a bad thing to have happened. Kids just don't understand. They can't really until they reach a certain age. Their mind has to develop more for them to fully be able to sympathize/empathize with another person or creature.

Thanks Becca. =] Skipper says thanks for the compliments. She's actually not chubby. Since she's (as of right now, it will be fixed on the 20th of Nov.) an unspayed bun she has this massive fuzzy dewlap that is just all hair. She's mainly just all hair. xD

Posted By LBJ10 on 10/14/2012 07:26 PM
About the puppies thing. I have kids tell me every day how their dog had puppies and their cat had kittens and blah blah blah. I wouldn't blame this girl for being excited about the idea of having puppies. Heck, I probably would have been excited for that when I was a kid too. Thankfully my parents weren't like that. All of our dogs/cats were fixed. This isn't to say that I am not frustrated when I hear this. What infuriates me though is when they talk about someone in their family abusing a pet or harming a wild animal. That makes me really sad because a lot of the time these kids have no idea that it is a bad thing to have happened. Kids just don't understand. They can't really until they reach a certain age. Their mind has to develop more for them to fully be able to sympathize/empathize with another person or creature.

My grandparents bred their Schnauzer (a sickly little dog) once when I was young, maybe ten or eleven years old.  To tell you the absolute honest truth... I loved every one of those puppies.  WHO doesn't love puppies?!  I spent summer days at my grandparents' house while my parents worked, and those puppies were my best friends for two months.  I cried horribly when it came time for them to leave for new homes.  So I do think some of that is just her age.  All she can think of is how cute puppies and kittens are, not the horrible fate of unwanted pets in this country.  She's a kid still, after all.

you're welcome skipper!  yeah...as soon as i read "chubby" in my comment i was praying you wouldn't take offense at that lol .  she's only chubby "looking" of course (in the very best, most adorable way!) but in reality she's just a fluffy gal !  i don't doubt you take awesome care of her!  my cat mischa looks like a bigger gal but she's all hair too