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BINKYBUNNY FORUMS > DIET & CARE > Please HELP: GI stasis treatment and aftermath
Last Post by LittlePuffyTail at 09/09/2012 03:19 AM (49 Replies)
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User is Offline TBpony414
Washington, DC
155 posts Send Private Message
08/08/2012 04:10 PM
So glad to hear Tuxy is continuing on the road to recovery! Keep us updated. ((continued healing vibes))

Sarita, you might find my personal experience regarding the usefulness of simethicone interesting. I have a bunny with megacolon (cowpile) syndrome and he gets cisapride twice a day. I always give him simethicone with it too. However, few times I have either run out of simethicone or just been lazy and didn't give it - and Willy always had gurgles and/or an upset tummy those days. Otherwise he is totally fine. I wouldn't have believed it could have made a difference if it wouldn't have happened to my own rabbit. Bunnies are finicky little fellows!

User is Offline Nova
218 posts Send Private Message
08/08/2012 08:16 PM
I only read the first post here so sorry if this is echoed advice. I have a bun who deals with chronic slow gut motility and full blown Stasis at least once a month or 2.

Make sure your pellets are by Oxbow. They have the highest fiber content.

The antibiotics were likely prescribed to kill off any build up of bad bacteria in the gut which can happen when stagnant contents just lay in there (hence the stink that comes out when the gut gets moving again). The Baytril is fine but you should never give a bunny any type of cillin or cephalosporin antibiotic because it can throw off their gut flora. I have heard it can be safe when injected so it bypasses the gut flora, but double check with a rabbit wise vet. I would take him off the Penicillin ASAP.

Cecal dysbiosis, that nasty, goupy, yellow mucus that starts to come out after a bout of bloat/stasis - is the build up of bad bacteria and the key to getting bunny through it is hydration and Bene-Bac, works better than throwing them on antibiotics which is quite stressful to them. Go to any local pet store, buy the 4 little tubes (make sure they are not expired). Give 1 tube twice, 3 days apart. I've also noticed that when my bun is *starting* to get constipated or lose his appetite, Bene-Bac sometimes prevents a full-blown attack. Bene-bac is probiotics, "good" bacteria for the gut.


The key to getting a bun through stasis is keeping him hydrated and not in pain - and when you have to force-feed, do it with small amounts at a time because too much can just make them more in pain. simethicone (in infant drops, 0.3ml) can help break up gas buildup and the metacam is also a good idea.

The motility meds should only be used for a week, maybe 2 weeks at most, but in my experience, any longer than that and your bun can become dependent on it and the bun can have rebound stasis when you stop giving it to him after such longterm use and he gets dependent on it. To help combat this I use motility meds as a last resort, with extreme caution, and I switch between Cisapride and Metoclopromide interchangably when I do have to use them.


when I HAVE to resort to motility meds, I try to figure out if he is stopped up in the upper GI tract or the lower GI tract. If upper, Reglan (metoclopromide) helps, but I am careful to only use it for a few days to a week or 2, and if he is constipated in the colon with poops, I would reach for the Cisapride and again, no more than a week or 2.


But I usually try other ways first - removal of pellets for the first day, enticing with more varieties of hays (oat is very tasty to buns and great in stasis) and WET leafy greens, sub-Q fluids (or syringe feeding him pedialyte) (I have had to learn to administer subQ fluids myself due to the frequency of my bun going through this), simethicone, metacam, Critical Care, and gentle but aggressive belly rubs. Make sure bun is also allowed to get a lot of exercise - it can promote motility in his gut and make him work up an appetite.


When this slowdown happens (and sometimes before resorting to risky motility meds) I have given 1-2mL of medical grade Mineral Oil laxative by mouth, only once per bout of stasis. you don't want to give him diarrhea. You can get it at any pharmacy. If your bun is bigger than 3lbs, 2mL would probably be more appropriate. It takes a day to work, but it usually does.


Finally, when I am desperate, I administer about 3mL of medical grade Mineral Oil laxative as an enema into my bun's colon with a small syringe - administered through his anus. You can also use an infant's ear dropper bulb and mix 3mL of the mineral oil with about 5mL room temperature (lukewarm) water and shake up into the infant bulb syringe (or ear bulb syringe). to administer, all you do is get bun on his back, find the anus (it's the hole that winks back at you), insert, and gently and slowly administer..... then keep bun on his back for a few minutes, grab him by the hind quarters and lift them up a bit so as to get all of the enema to travel as far up the lower GI tract as possible, keep it there for a few more minutes, rub his belly and then set him down in his litterbox. If successfull....He should produce poops by then. The lukewarm water itself will help stimulate the GI tract and hydrate the dried up compaction inside and the mineral oil, as a laxative will ease the fecal matter out.


That said, the following I am going to write to you for FUTURe reference..............It sounds like your bun is very young and for him to be experiencing stasis issues already is kind of a bad sign - my bun is not even a year old yet and has been in stasis at least 5 times. The key to keeping it under control is lots of hay (oat hay is GREAT for stasis buns because rabbits love the taste and it is nutritionally similar to timothy, so mix that with the timothy!), keep them on Oxbow pellets and only give those in tiny amounts through-out the day so they don't load up on the pellets and make themselves constipated. With these kinds of buns, daily greens is also a must....and usually herbs like cilantro and basil combined with endive, carrot TOPS (not the orange carrot part) and escarole are the least risky (some greens can have side effects if given regularly...these greens I've found to be very safe to use on a longterm basis). My bun also has to have at least a few hours of exercise, so you might need to figure out a place where he can run, binky, jump and hop around for a few hours a day.

Because my bun nearly became dependent on the motility meds (which is BAD because it will stop working after a while and you are then unable to take them off due to dependency) I give him 1 small tube of Bene-Bac every other day. (the small tubes that come in the packages of 4). So, diet, benebac and exercise so far has been my routine, and when he shows signs of slowdown, I start with 2 tubes of the Benebac, a belly rub, simethicone and fluids/remove pellets/add more hay and veggies, let him run around and get moving..... if no better despite that, I administer the 1-2mL oral Mineral Oil laxative and metacam with small amounts of Critical Care through out the day, keeping him warm and hydrated (again, I do subQ fluids) if he still then gets worse just keep him hydrated and keep rubbing his belly and when all else fails...... the motility meds. WHen THOSE fail (in my bun's case it was because he was on them too long- I feel that 2 weeks is the max for those drugs) that's when it's enema time. It'd also be a good idea to ask the vet to have motility meds available for recurring bouts of bloat, I have done this. So if it's a weekend and all else is failing, they are there in my cupboard for him. But again, after he started to get dependent on them I use them with extreme caution these days.

I hope your bun gets better soon----and remember, once he gets the yuck out it's BeneBac time! Feel free to PM me if you need any help, and contact any local rabbit rescues for their advice as they often deal with their buns going into stasis on the weekends when vets are often unavailable.

User is Offline Nova
218 posts Send Private Message
08/08/2012 08:21 PM
Posted By TuxDraper on 08/08/2012 01:43 PM
Well we are back from the vet, and 200 something dollars later we have a script for 30-days of Metoclopromide (1.1 ml, 3 times a day). The vet confirmed that Tuxy had a small bout of cecal dysbiosis, but the good news is that his temp was perfect (102, and he was obviously a little stressed so this is great!), and that he will no longer need any antibiotics (which caused this condition). She felt that he still is dealing with some GI Stasis, so the Metoclopromide should help with this.

They also took his blood, and the initial test came back all normal and actually much better than the blood work that was taken 10 days ago. We will get the CBC results tomorrow so fingers crossed for that.

While we were there, Tuxy got some SQ fluids, but the vet did not feel that he would need these on a daily basis as long as I was able to keep up with critical care routine that I have been doing, and also offering him plenty of fresh green veggies and unlimited hay.

So for now folks, we sit tight and keep on doing what we have been doing. Please keep sending me and Tuxy positive vibes for a full and awesome recovery! I can't tell you how much I miss seeing him binkie around the house - he would literally do this 10-15 times a day!! Happy little dude!

xoxo

Okay just read this.


Please consider what I mentioned above^^^^ in my previous post here on this page about long term use of motility meds. If your bun must be on them long term, ask your vet if you can use Cisapride and Metoclopromide interchangeably every other week for a month instead of just one med straight through the month so that your bun doesn't become dependent on it and resistant to its effects. Glad to hear the vet was wise enough to know that the antibiotics could have caused the Stasis to be worse but Baytril should not worsen stasis as it does not affect gut flora so it was likely the Penicillin that upset his his balance. Please do try the Benebac once you know he is well hydrated and passing stool; it will greatly help the cecal dysbiosis.




User is Offline LittlePuffyTail
New Brunswick, Canada
Forum Leader
9685 posts Send Private Message
08/09/2012 02:17 AM
((((Tuxy)))))) Feel better buddy!

Bunnies should be called the pets of kings! I can certainly relate with bunnies costing a small fortune. I have 3 and they always seem to have some sort of expensive health problem.
Proud to be a Bunny Hugger and a voice for the voiceless
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User is Offline TuxDraper
16 posts Send Private Message
08/09/2012 02:31 AM
His new nickname is 'baby g' ! Hahahaaa! My husband calls him this as well as introduces him as our 'prized bunny'.

User is Offline TH004
261 posts Send Private Message
08/09/2012 02:47 AM
That's awesome! My hubby said we would never spend much on any animal, especially a rabbit. Then, my beloved buns got sick. He was the one telling the vet to spare no expense. It adds up fast!

User is Offline TuxDraper
16 posts Send Private Message
08/09/2012 08:24 AM
Totally reliant on metoclopromide? That would not be good at all. He was on it for 7 days and then off it. The following day is when he got sick again. I wonder if his body was feeling withdrawl? That is so scary and I do not like that, BUT I also want to keep Tuxy alive!

Today is a little more playful. I set up a fort for him to investigate and he is very entertained and for the most part interested. He climbed to the very top and made a cozy place to lay out long. I love when he does this. He gets so comfy and cozy.

I hve only given him one does of metaclopeonide and he ate about 6 large danilion leaves and a bushy carrot top. I was so thrilled to see him really excited to eat again. He is absolutely not back to normal yet, my cute 12 binkies a day boy, but at least he isn't just laying around limp like yesterday.

Thank you all for the advice and support. Keep it coming, as I have a feeling this is going to be a long road...

Xoxo
Tuxy's mommy

User is Offline TuxDraper
16 posts Send Private Message
08/09/2012 08:41 AM

Just as I was typing the above message, Tuxy had took a big poop of mixed pellets and very soft stool and ate it.  UGH.


User is Offline Sarita
(Dallas)
Forum Leader
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08/09/2012 08:53 AM
Definitely follow the advice of your vet. I would call her and ask if you need to continue the reglan for the month. I'm not sure if they actually feel withdrawal - really the vet is the best person to ask for instructions and advice on medication that is prescribed for your rabbit. One person's experience is just that - their experience. What worked for my rabbit may not work for yours - the idea is to give you some talking points with your vet. I have found that every vet has a different protocol for slowdown of the gut in rabbits - it's basically the same but some vets do things in a different way. I have found that my vets are very open to discussing treatment for my rabbits and are open to my suggestions or if they aren't, they always will tell me why they don't feel it's a good idea.

The thing with stasis is that it is a condition and not an illness. It seems to me just based on your posts that Tux may have had an infection because you mention the high temperature and that could have caused the stasis.

User is Offline TuxDraper
16 posts Send Private Message
08/09/2012 09:05 AM
I spoke to her and she said to def continue at least until he is back to 100%. The eating of the sludge poo, I think is actually just him trying to get back into the routine of eating his cecateopes. I'm not
Overly concerned about that. It's all critical care, hay and veggies anyway!

User is Offline Sarita
(Dallas)
Forum Leader
15114 posts Send Private Message
08/09/2012 09:14 AM
Glad he is recovering :~)

User is Offline Nova
218 posts Send Private Message
08/10/2012 09:17 AM
I was only trying to be informative because dependency/tolerance and resultant rebound problems *can* occur with these medications. It doesn't mean it *will*. I was concerned because your bun is very young and still developing---not good to get a dependency right off the bat which is what happened to my bun (but I helped him get thru it - weaned him off the meds and got serious about his diet).
Ask any vet about dependency on motility meds - they should acknowledge it exists - but different vets have varying opinions on just how long a bun can be on the meds without developing dependency. Plenty of vets have had buns on motility meds for a month or more without problems, others developed a dependency much quicker than that, and it is usually remedied by weaning them off the meds once their motility is back to normal.
If your vet feels that he will not develop a tolerance or dependency after a month, then he likely won't; I've heard of rabbits being on themfor 6 weeks without incident.....but that it CAN happen, and sometimes sooner, so be careful. my primary point I was trying to make was do not jump for the motility meds if this turns out to be a lifelong thing. You may end up shooting yourself in the foot. (which is what happened to me). Every 2 weeks Boon was on motility meds from the tender age of 3 months old. He's about a year now and it has turned into a lifelong problem and I use the motility meds as an abolsute last resort because half the time they don't work anymore, and when I take him off them things get pretty bad, so I have to wean him off them over a week. I also switch between Reglan and Cisapride, usually depends on where his blockage is (higher up = Reglan, lower colon = Cisapride). This is all information I learned from not one, but two exotic pet specialists plus a local rabbit wise vet. It's not just "my opinion." It's what my bunny's doctors told me. BUT. Please do not worry. He hasn't been on these types of meds a million times before and it seems like he really needs them right now and probably does need them for a month.

Your bun obviously needs motility meds for this severe bout of stasis! His case seems to be quite stubborn, and I hope it clears. When he becomes regular again for a nice amount of time, perhaps ask your vet about weaning him off the motility meds so as to not develop a dependency at such a young age. And I'd also ask to have both kinds of meds on hand just in case for the future.

(Weaning meaning removing 0.1cc from his regime each day until off. ) example if bun is on 0.9cc a day, just remove 0.1 from each everyday. That's usually what I do instead of just taking him off abruptly - it helps to prevent my bun from having rebound stasis when I take him off.

You might also want to ask Dana Krempels what her thoughts are - she is a Ph.D rabbit specialist - you can write her by Googling her name and asking her the question in the AllExperts community.

User is Offline Kokaneeandkahlua
Edmonton, Alberta; Canada
Forum Leader
11149 posts Send Private Message
08/10/2012 10:28 AM
WOW Just got through this whole post! I can't believe what a long arduous ride it's been! I'm so glad it sounds like Tux is on the mend I think his new name is cute, baby g the prized bunny Most definitely!
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User is Offline TuxDraper
16 posts Send Private Message
08/10/2012 02:09 PM
Thank you all so much for your feedback and the information. I am somewhat nervous now about the reglan for 30 days. Today I have given it to him two times, and he is due for another does in a few hours. He stool is still SUPER tiny and somewhat sticky, but he is producing a TON of it. I am hoping that this is just going to take some time for him to get back to regular stools. His green veggie and hay intake has been great yesterday and today, and has been downing tons of water (and pedialite) with a few drops of baby apple juice mixed into it. I know that the apple juice isn't ideal, but it is really interesting him in the water and his intake is terrific.

He has had decent energy today as well. At this point, I am just really concerned about two things:

1. His return to normal stools
2. He has completely abandoned his litter box training and is pooing and peeing everywhere. I am not getting mad at him about this because I am just so happy that he is going, but I am curious (asking the group) if I will have to retrain him on this? That is understandable, but I really hope that he will return to his awesome litter box rituals that he once had.


User is Offline kamdynandsunshinesmom
799 posts Send Private Message
08/10/2012 04:40 PM
My rabbit just went into that a week ago. My vet gave her subq fluids then put her on reglan 1.3ml 3 times a day till she is 100% better. Then put on Bene Bac once a day. Then I was force feeding her critical care 3 times a day. This happened on a friday started force feeding her on saturday. By saturday she was only eating parsley. By sunday she was eating a little more, Monday she was eating a little more hay. Now a week later eating lots of hay, and veggies. She hasn't touched her pellets yet. The vet said it will take time. I can say from expereince keep calm. Try giving parsley cilantro and other type of herbs the bunny likes. Stay away from fruits. This was my first dealing with GI Stasis. My rabbits stasis was caused because it was so hot outside and humid she got dehydrated which led to stasis. Every day she is getting a little bit stronger. Hang in there things will get better. Healing vibes and prayers for you and your bunny.

User is Offline TH004
261 posts Send Private Message
08/11/2012 01:28 AM
I am actually pregnant and was given Reglan for way more than a month to help severe acid reflux issues. 1. I think it is safe for a buns to use for a month, IMO. That is because doctors believed it was safe to give a pregnant woman in her first and most delicate trimester. 2. Being on meds for my acid reflux, for a human, causes me to have to run to the restroom sometimes. I don't have a lot of warning (sorry for the TMI). I'm pointing that out, because it may be working well on your buns, so he can't make it to the litterbox on time. I know rabbits are different, but I thought a human/baby trial may help show you similar issues

Oh, and I wasn't weaned off of Reglan. I stopped taking it cold. I had no dependency issues.

User is Offline LittlePuffyTail
New Brunswick, Canada
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08/11/2012 01:29 AM
Glad Tuxy is feeling better.

[quote I am hoping that this is just going to take some time for him to get back to regular stools.] This is the case in my experience. It takes their system time to recover from a bad bout of stasis or GI upset. The fact that he is pooping lots of little poops is good. They will most likely gradually get larger. Just keep the hay bin full and make sure he's drinking.
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User is Offline TuxDraper
16 posts Send Private Message
09/08/2012 11:46 AM
Hey everyone! I wanted to give you an update on Mr. Tux...

He is doing AWESOME!! I weened him off the reglan about a week ago - just shy of 30 days. He was much better about 2 weeks ago as far as eating and pooping, but to be safe, I slowly reduced the amount and frequency of his meds.

He has managed to plumped right back up (and some!), is binkying like normal, and is just the sweetest little guy ever. Even though he's such a teenager right now (7month old), he loves to cuddle and have nose and ear scratches. I think he knows how much love and care we provided and is thankful. Is this possible?

I also wanted to ask the group if you think bunnies know when you are sick or sleepy, etc. I think he does bc he will lay down while I watch a movie or
Something. I could also just be crazy. Thoughts on this?

User is Offline Skipper's Mama
Florida
1121 posts Send Private Message
09/08/2012 12:40 PM
Buns can sense when we're in moods. When I'm crying or upset my bun will come up and cuddle with me. =]

User is Offline LittlePuffyTail
New Brunswick, Canada
Forum Leader
9685 posts Send Private Message
09/09/2012 03:19 AM
I'm glad Mr. Tux is doing so well. I ditto that buns are very in tune to our feelings. If you're sick and not your usual self, they will sense that.
Proud to be a Bunny Hugger and a voice for the voiceless
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