Forum

OUR FORUM IS UP BUT WE ARE STILL IN THE MIDDLE OF UPDATING AND FIXING THINGS.  SOME THINGS WILL LOOK WEIRD AND/OR NOT BE CORRECT. YOUR PATIENCE IS APPRECIATED.  We are not fully ready to answer questions in a timely manner as we are not officially open, but we will do our best. 

You may have received a 2-factor authentication (2FA) email from us on 4/21/2020. That was from us, but was premature as the login was not working at that time. 

BUNNY 911 – If your rabbit hasn’t eaten or pooped in 12-24 hours, call a vet immediately! Don’t have a vet? Check out VET RESOURCES

The subject of intentional breeding or meat rabbits is prohibited. The answers provided on this board are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet. It is your responsibility to assess the information being given and seek professional advice/second opinion from your veterinarian and/or qualified behaviorist.

What are we about?  Please read about our Forum Culture and check out the Rules

BUNNY 911 – If your rabbit hasn’t eaten or pooped in 12-24 hours, call a vet immediately!  Don’t have a vet? Check out VET RESOURCES 

The subject of intentional breeding or meat rabbits is prohibited. The answers provided on this board are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet.  It is your responsibility to assess the information being given and seek professional advice/second opinion from your veterinarian and/or qualified behaviorist.

BINKYBUNNY FORUMS

Forum DIET & CARE Interesting Study on Domesticated Rabbits and Diet

Viewing 22 reply threads
  • Author
    Messages

    • KelseyCupcakes
      Participant
      110 posts Send Private Message

        Ralphy’s doctor told me something very interesting about rabbits and their diets and why domesticated rabbits have teeth problems. I thought you guys would like to have this information. Unfortunately, I don’t have the link but I remember everything that was said.

        So there was a study done on wild rabbits. One group of wild rabbits they fed hay, dirt, and pellets, while the other group was fed hay, pellets, and vegetables (veggies incorporated in daily diet). They watched these rabbits for about 5 years then they studied the rabbits teeth and jaws post mortem to see which one of the groups were the “healthiest”.

        Can you guess which one of the groups were the healthiest rabbits? The vegetable diet ones right? Wrong! O= !!

        The ones that ate vegetables had overgrown jaw bones and teeth which caused the rabbits pain because (by what he was saying) the nutrients in the veggies were too much on a little bunnies body and should not be fed as a diet but more of a treat. Now, the other group that ate hay, pellets, and dirt, NONE of the rabbits had the same problems as the ladder. Their jaws and teeth were perfect.

        I was gonna feed my bunny veggies as part of a diet till he told me that, so I’m just gonna give a little as a treat once in a while.

        What do you guys think? Did you know of this already cuz it’s new info to me.


      • Monkeybun
        Participant
        10479 posts Send Private Message

          I think that one 5 year study won’t cut it. Who knows what kind of rabbits they were, how much of each food they got, if they had pre-existign conditions. My bunnies get veggies daily, and thats how it will always be.


        • LBJ10
          Moderator
          16869 posts Send Private Message

            I have never heard of such a study. I looked around and couldn’t find anything that looked like it. There is actually concern with rabbits eating only pellets. Rabbits evolved to eat grass and leafy vegetation. Therefore, they chew in a lateral figure-8 pattern. When they only eat pellets, they tend to chew in a more vertical fashion. This leads to an unnatural wear pattern in their teeth and can lead to tooth alignment problems.


          • bunnyfriend
            Participant
            2368 posts Send Private Message

              Hmmm I’ve never heard of this. From everywhere I’ve heard from vegetables are a very important part of a rabbit’s diet. Eating only pellets, like LBJ10 said, is said to not be good, healthy, or natural. More veggies gives them a more natural diet. If it were me I wouldn’t go on just what one vet said. It is confusing to me why nutrients would affect the teeth with in big of a way… Did you see the study yourself? I will always feed my bunnies veggies from personal experience.


            • Sarita
              Participant
              18851 posts Send Private Message

                I suspect this study was done by a company that produces pellets…those studies are very one-sided as you can expect.  Even Oxbow, whom makes very good pellets, says this based on their studies…obviously this is in their best interest.


              • LBJ10
                Moderator
                16869 posts Send Private Message

                  Bunnyfriend – I have heard that a vitamin A deficiency during pregnancy can lead to teeth development issues in the babies. I haven’t heard of nutrients that an adult rabbit is or is not consuming causing dental problems. Well, except for a severe calcium deficiency, that might make the teeth weak.


                • Mandyyy
                  Participant
                  376 posts Send Private Message

                    I’m sorry, but the description of the test (cutting their heads open) will forever haunt me… I didn’t even finish reading what you said because that turned my stomach…


                  • Kokaneeandkahlua
                    Participant
                    12067 posts Send Private Message

                      My opinion is this

                      1) the vet should give you the article-or at least the authors names and the title of the study, year etc. He could be remembering it incorrectly, it could be full of issues, it could be 30 years old…it could be perfectly valid but who knows when he just passed on his take on one paper. If you could ask for the title, author, year and journal next time your in, we could get the article, read it and give a better opinion

                      2) I think there could be some majo issues-one that there are different genetics in the two groups-how did they control for any differences? how did they control all other aspects during the study? Did they really feed dirt? Did they ensure they had equal amounts of hay. What type of wild rabbits (North American/European) as domestic rabbits aren’t the same ANIMAL as a north american rabbit! The difference was not just vegetables, they also fed the other group dirt…perhaps it’s not te absence of veggies but the presence of dirt (nutrients/minerals) that caused the teeth to be better. Even as quoted this study seems full of problems that would indicate further research and mean that it is not something to draw conclusions from

                      At any rate, it’s hard to draw any conclusions without the info and reading the article. Given that there was only ever one large study on canine nutrition that they base all feeding requirements on for dogs, I doubt this was a large scale study-from which you could draw any conclusions-as there just isn’t a lot of money/funding for nutrition research in any animal currently. Sooo I would continue feeding veggies as part of a balanced diet (hay and pellets) but that’s me


                    • Beka27
                      Participant
                      16016 posts Send Private Message

                        I’d also like more info on this study. From what you’ve shared, it doesn’t seem like a good study. Reading the article would explain more on how the animals were picked and what controls were used.

                        I feed veggies, not for dental health solely, but for digestive health. Even if your rabbit WERE to develop misalignment later in life, it isn’t the end of the world. You would have those molars filed occasionally and your bun would be just fine. I don’t agree with testing out theories on personal pets. I believe that your rabbit’s quality of life increases with the quality of his diet.

                        Each rabbit has characteristics, genetics, and individual rate of hay consumption that play a role in dental health. A rabbit who is fed veggies as a large part of the diet is all-around more healthy than one that is not. Weight control is better maintained, digestion is more regular, and “poopy butt” is reduced. Coat quality is better, and I would assume immune system is better for handling harmless pathogens that sneak in on (even well-washed) vegetation.

                        If for 8 years, your rabbit does not get veggies AND does not develop molar spurs does that conclusively mean that the veggies CAUSE molar spurs? No.
                        If for 8 years, your rabbit gets veggies AND develops molar spurs does that conclusively mean that veggies CAUSE molar spurs? No.

                        Also, what about the cases where there are two rabbits in a household? Each get identical diets, maybe the two bunnies are even siblings. But eventually one develops dental issues and the other does not. We see this from time to time. It’s not worth jeopardizing their immediate health on the off-chance that someday, they might develop molar spurs.

                        You haven’t commented since your original post. I’m interested to hear what other research you’ve done and what your thoughts are currently.


                      • jerseygirl
                        Moderator
                        22338 posts Send Private Message

                          KelseyCupcakes, could you ask your vet more details so you can find the actual article?

                          I wonder if the rabbits in the study were young and still developing or it was adult group of rabbits. Also, what veggies were fed? If the vegetable component did not provide a correct balance of calcium & phosphorus then yes, that could cause some problems but we don’t have the details.

                          Did you vet recommend you don’t feed vegetables or were they just sharing something they’d read?
                          If Ralphy is very young, limited veg is recommended by the house rabbit society and that can be increased as they get older.

                          @Mandyyyy, I found that off putting also.
                          Could the original post be edited to read “the rabbits teeth & jaws were studied post mortem” or something?


                        • Silly Sungura
                          Participant
                          451 posts Send Private Message

                            To ensure that you don’t have problems with Ralphy’s teeth the best thing you can do is give him unlimited access to hay, as well as healthy stuff to chew on (willow or unsprayed fruit branches, for example). And do not feed too many pellets. They don’t have the long fiber your bunny needs, and too many can lead to other health issues as well.

                            I agree with Beka. One of the main reasons veggies are important, besides the nutrients, is because they help keep your bunny’s intestinal tract hydrated so he can keep things moving. Pellets are fine, but they don’t have the water content that a natural diet has. If Ralphy only gets veggies as an occasional treat his GI tract will be more prone to problems.


                          • KelseyCupcakes
                            Participant
                            110 posts Send Private Message

                              I changed the wording to the sentence jerseygirl gave me (that is much better thank you). Sorry about offending y’all. : (

                              And, yes, I’ll bring that up to my vet next time I see him. And yes, the vet told me to NEVER ever feed him veggies, fruit, lettuce as a diet but treat only. I WANT to feed him romaine lettuce and spinach and all that stuff so I concluded what all of you have been stating. The study I have not seen and do not know if it was just one study or what type of rabbit it was. And yes, he did say they fed them dirt.


                            • LoveChaCha
                              Participant
                              6634 posts Send Private Message

                                Oh my… o_O I’m so sorry you are having problems!! would you consider looking for another vet? The part about dirt really freaked me out!! I have never heard of any rabbit consuming dirt as a part of their diet O_O

                                My rabbit has been getting a nightly feast of romaine, italian parsley, and cilantro since she was about 6 months of age. I don’t know why people say that lettuce is bad, or any kind of fruit or veggie. Fruit should be given in very very tiny pieces.


                              • KelseyCupcakes
                                Participant
                                110 posts Send Private Message

                                   @LovechaCha: Well, I looked all over online before I took my baby to the vet because I wanted him to go to an expierenced doctor and I checked all the rabbit doctors in california and he is one of them. Besides the study he said and picking up Ralphy by the neck (which I thought you couldn’t and shouldn’t do!) he did everything right medicine wise.


                                • bunnyfriend
                                  Participant
                                  2368 posts Send Private Message

                                    Oh I don’t think you offended anyone! I think people are just interested by this


                                  • jerseygirl
                                    Moderator
                                    22338 posts Send Private Message

                                      Posted By KelseyCupcakes on 11/24/2011 11:55 AM
                                      I changed the wording to the sentence jerseygirl gave me (that is much better thank you). Sorry about offending y’all. : ( 

                                      No offence taken. It just when you’re slave to these furballs one can be extra sensitive when reading some things. Thanks for adding in the alternative line. psst; you might want to delete the original line though.


                                    • Stickerbunny
                                      Participant
                                      4128 posts Send Private Message

                                        Ehhh. Picked your rabbit up by the neck and said NOT to feed veggies? I would be looking for another vet, personally. A lot of vets and other people are paid by the pellet companies to push their products, also a lot of the “studies” are done by the companies themselves. Harrisons bird pellets for example, does studies and has concluded birds should ONLY be fed their pellets, with the occasional veggie treat and no seeds at all. But, everyone not on the payroll of a pellet company concluded that birds on that diet would develop kidney/liver issues more often. Same for rabbits. If say for example Oxbow gets a study out to vets that says you have to feed 50/50 hay and pellets and you feed oxbow brand because it’s a good brand… you go through a lot more of their hay and pellets, so more money for them.

                                        I would be interested in reading the study though, if you could get the name of it.

                                        Here is a study they recently did on the benefits of leafy greens, which our artificial supplements fail to replicate properly:

                                        “Now, from UK scientists, comes a study (press release here; abstract here) suggesting that green vegetables may have even more dietary importance than we previously thought. (Hat tip Atlantic Life.) The researchers subjected mice to a diet stripped of vegetables and found that after just three weeks, the mice lost 70 to 80 percent of a kind of white blood cell called intraepithelial lymphocytes, which, the press release states, “play a critical role in monitoring the large number of micro-organisms present in the intestine, keeping infections at bay and maintaining a healthy gut.
                                        The researchers posit that a substance known as indole-3-carbinol, prominent in leafy greens, is responsible for maintaining these white blood cells. Take it out of the diet, apparently, and the cells die. Here’s a graphical depiction of their findings:
                                        One of the researchers, Marc Veldhoen, remarked that, “since the new diet contained all other known essential ingredients such as minerals and vitamins,” the results surprised him.”

                                        http://www.babraham.ac.uk/news2011/oct-13.html

                                        Plus, vitamins and minerals absorb better from a natural source, than from supplements and chemically made sources. Key is balance, just like with every animals diet.

                                        So, I am still in favor of veggies, though I feed pellets too.


                                      • KelseyCupcakes
                                        Participant
                                        110 posts Send Private Message

                                          Posted By jerseygirl on 11/24/2011 04:45 PM

                                          Posted By KelseyCupcakes on 11/24/2011 11:55 AM

                                          I changed the wording to the sentence jerseygirl gave me (that is much better thank you). Sorry about offending y’all. : ( 

                                          No offence taken. It just when you’re slave to these furballs one can be extra sensitive when reading some things. Thanks for adding in the alternative line. psst; you might want to delete the original line though.

                                          Whoops, thought I deleted that line. Okay it’s gone now thanks.


                                        • LBJ10
                                          Moderator
                                          16869 posts Send Private Message

                                            Posted By LoveChaCha on 11/24/2011 11:59 AM
                                            Oh my… o_O I’m so sorry you are having problems!! would you consider looking for another vet? The part about dirt really freaked me out!! I have never heard of any rabbit consuming dirt as a part of their diet O_O

                                            My rabbit has been getting a nightly feast of romaine, italian parsley, and cilantro since she was about 6 months of age. I don’t know why people say that lettuce is bad, or any kind of fruit or veggie. Fruit should be given in very very tiny pieces.

                                            I looked it up. Apparently it is more common in certain rabbit species than others. It is believed to help mineral deficiencies in harsh climates. Other animals do it too like birds, larger ungulates, and even people.


                                          • Sarita
                                            Participant
                                            18851 posts Send Private Message

                                              Dirt for wild rabbits is very common, apparently it is full of minerals and it is sometimes all they can get. That being said, our domestics can get those vitamins and minerals from their veggies and hay.

                                              Also I wouldn’t want my rabbit outside eating dirt, too many things like botflies and pesticides in the dirt.


                                            • KelseyCupcakes
                                              Participant
                                              110 posts Send Private Message

                                                 Sarita: Agreed! Which is why I don’t want my bun in the backyard. There’s no pesticides but the dog pees and poops on the grass. Doctor said it was perfectly fine to eat the grass, I was like, are you sure? O_o

                                                Is it really okay or better not chance it? Because he loves the sun but our house doesn’t really have direct sunlight you need to go outside to get it.


                                              • Sarita
                                                Participant
                                                18851 posts Send Private Message

                                                  Really, in my own personal opinion, it’s better not to chance it.


                                                • Stickerbunny
                                                  Participant
                                                  4128 posts Send Private Message

                                                    I wouldn’t want him eating something the dog messes, personally. You could get some wheat grass or something for him in little pots though and feed that to him as it grows.

                                                Viewing 22 reply threads
                                                • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

                                                Forum DIET & CARE Interesting Study on Domesticated Rabbits and Diet