red lump beneath chin (update: bottom incisors removed)

[equalsign]

Well, it would seem my rabbits (and I) cannot catch a break. We went to syringe feed our other rabbit a little baby food (to get her used to the idea of being syringe fed) and we discovered a red lump (or two?) on her jaw. It just seems to have come out of nowhere. If it had been there long I would have noticed it before. I’m always up close and personal with my buns. We just took her to a (not very good) vet LAST MONDAY!

 

I’d guess this is one of those abscesses I hear about. I’m taking her in Monday or Tuesday of next week. I know you aren’t veterinarians, but what do you think this means for her? Do you think this is an abscess? Would jaw abscesses mean her teeth need to be removed? What is the cost of these sort of things? I would never consider NOT getting this taken care of, I would just like a guestimate. What are some payment options you have used to help with these sort of things? Is she in pain? Thank you.

 

Sorry about the terrible image. Cell phone. 

[jerseygirl]

Oh you poor thing! You’ve not had a good time lately.

It could be things other then abscess. Even just a swelling from chinning too much or inflammation from a foreign body like a hay splinter.

With abscesses, it would need to be determined if it actually is caused by the tooth root first. Positioned where it is, I’m betting it’s not a root abscess but I am by no means familiar with them!   I imagine treatment would involve incision & draining it, treating the site and course of oral antibiotics before tooth removal was considered.

Care Credit is something often recommended on the forums to help ease the financial pressure with vet bills. http://www.carecredit.com/vetmed/

[equalsign]

 It looks like my vet accepts CareCredit. Thank goodness for that if this turns out to be something big. Thank you.

[BinkyBunny]

ohhh….grrrr. I just posted a whole thingamajig and I got an error message and it all was erased. Got to love these glitches!

Thanks to Jerseygirl, I don’t have to repeat myself as some off the things she mentioned are what I posted.

One thing I wanted to say is that when Rucy had her abscesses, they were more along the side of her jaw where her molar roots would be. However, before I adopted Rucy, she supposedly did have a huge abscess on her chin and it was due to one of the bottom incisors being infected. That tooth was removed.

Rucy had several abscesses over the years, some would go away with meds, while other times surgery was needed. I was lucky because Rucy always did so well and recovered quickly. I don’t remember how much it cost but somewhere around $300 – $550.

I also used Care Credit IF the vet clinic accepted that (not all do) and when my vet moved to another clinic (that didn’t take carecredit) she allowed me to set up a payment plan when things got too tight.

[jerseygirl]

Sorry BB. That was probably due to me going in to edit my post. Chronic habit. :/

[BinkyBunny]

No worries Jersey! I do the same thing. But our forum shouldn’t cause that error anyway…glitchy thing.

[equalsign]

It’s gotten bigger and redder since I posted this. We’ve been feeding her Baytril since Sunday morning. Just took her to the vet today. He thinks it’s an abscess. We’re taking her in tomorrow morning for surgery to get it lanced and cleaned. The rabbit savvy older vet will be in tomorrow and will be performing the operation. The vet I’ve been seeing won’t be in tomorrow, but considering he’s learned everything he knows about rabbits from this other vet I feel pretty comfortable with this.

 

They’ll give me a call if it turns out to be a tumor, or if there are any other complications.

 

They use isofluorene gas. She’ll be under for 15 minutes or so. I believe they’ll leave the wound open to heal and will be sending her home with baytril. I think I’ve heard this to be standard operating procedure with this sort of thing. I asked about antibiotic beads. He said he had seen them in school and that they were nice because they could close the wound, but that he hadn’t seen a lesser rate of reccurence with them. Is there anything else I should ask about tomorrow? Is there anything I should know about this procedure? Thanks all. 

 

I don’t remember them talking about a culture/sensitivity test to pick the correct antibiotic. Should I ask about this?

 

Should I ask for pain meds?

[jerseygirl]

I don’t remember them talking about a culture/sensitivity test to pick the correct antibiotic. Should I ask about this?

Personally I would. Since they’ll have the abscess material there, might as well check what bacteria is present.
I *think* it’s standard to leave it open so you can continually remove the dead tissue and re pack the site. Doing so, there’s probably opportunity to use a topical antibiotic along with an oral one. I’m a little sketchy on details but had been reading about rabbit abscesses for a friend recently. I’ve actually read great stuff about manuka honey (surgical kind) and it’s used a lot in the UK for rabbit abscesses. Not so sure about the States though. You use guaze soaked in the honey to pack the wound and it has great antibacterial properties.

Re. pain relief….I’m not certain. I was always under impression abscess was not generally painful as long as not directly involved with the nerves. But when I asked my vet recently she said they are. Dental ones that is. I might have been confused with other soft tissue abscesses. (???) I think once the vet determines what it is they’ll be able to give you an idea in regards for pain relief. Always worth asking.

Goodluck!

[equalsign]

 Don’t have time for a full update. The older vet was very good. Unfortunately we had to have her bottom incisor teeth removed. One of them was infected and had degraded about 5 mm (I think that’s what he said). I feel incredibly guilty, even though I know we did the right thing. She doesn’t hate us, but I really wish that I could communicate what happened to her more clearly. I just feel like those teeth were so important for her. Like a human losing a hand or something. I wish there was another way.

 

I ordered the bacterial test. I think he wanted it too. I mentioned it to the vet tech and when the doctor came in it was the first thing we talked about. Results in Saturday or Monday (more likely). She’s on Baytril until then. Like me he figured it was a tooth infection and it was. The other tooth was not infected as far as he could see, but he said it was so extremely close to the infection and so likely to become infected or a problem that he just removed both. She was under for 30 minutes and on an IV during and after the procedure I believe.

 

He brought up pain meds before I could in our initial talk and we got 5 days of Medicam. He took an x-ray of her skull at some point to make sure there were not any other bad teeth, and thankfully he didn’t see any. I asked for something to flush out her wound with and he gave me some dilute nolvasan (~150mL) and a syringe free of charge, so that was really nice. Between this and my other rabbit’s stasis I have accumulated a very nice assortment of syringes at least. 

 

He said she probably wouldn’t eat right away and maybe not even today. I told him that was very unlikely. The first thing she did when she got home from her spay was bury her head in a pile of herbs. Today the first thing she did when we got home was bury her face in her pellets. She didn’t eat a ton, but she’s been picking at them throughout the day. We also set out some diced cilantro that she’s been eating. I imagine it’s pretty uncomfortable to eat right now. I’m very grateful that I don’t have to worry about that though.

 

She’s on orchard grass right now, so at least that will be easier to chew.

 

At the very least this explains why her teeth were uneven. She was probably focusing her food onto one side. We’ve been noticing it for a while now. At least a month or two. We brought it up in her last two vet visits.

 

He recommended we take her to a vet to have her top incisors filed down, rather than try to use nail clippers or wire cutters. He said he’s seen them fracture the teeth. I think he said the other option was a nail filer, and that just seems bad for everyone invloved. With their high speed/power machine at least it will be over faster. 

 

She’s still recovering, but at least she’s not totally withdrawn. She’ll poke her head out for pets and come out of the maze haven from time to time. She’s definately the tougher of our two bunnies, so I’m not worried about her making a full recovery.

 

Questions:

Does anyone have any tips for any special needs my rabbit may now have?

Do I need to cut any of her veggies?

How will this affect her hay intake/ability to eat it? Is orchard grass going to be best from now on?

Anyone have tips for flushing out her wound?

Any tips for how to prevent this in the future, especially for my other bunny?

 

I think I’ve asked the vet some of these questions, but to be honest I can’t remember. We probably spent 30 minutes talking today. I only got 4 hours of sleep last night so my mind really isn’t where it should be. I’ll probably call him with more questions tomorrow. Thank you all.

 

This post ended up being very long. Homework time. 

 

 

[Sarita]

Vibes to your bunny. Your vet sounds very competent and that’s so important with dental issues!

I would cut her veggies up for her for now – did the vet say if that bottom incisor is going to grow back or is it gone for good?

I would stick with the orchard grass or a second or third cut timothy which has smaller softer pieces as well.

I imagine this was a genetic problem and not a diet or environmental problem so it may very likely not be a problem at all for your other rabbit.

Definitely write down your questions for the vet and for heaven’s sake, get some sleep :~)

[equalsign]

 Those bottom incisors are gone for good. I just got off the phone with the other vet (who spoke with the vet who did the surgery). I had forgotten this, but part of the purpose of the x-ray was to make sure he had removed all of them. He said it shouldn’t have been genetic and was caused by something external, but that they didn’t know what. She could have banged her teeth on something, had them fracture, and then had bacteria find their way down. She could have poked herself on something, though on what I couldn’t know. My place is bunny safe. Dunno.

 

He said she shouldn’t need any food cut except for apples, carrots, things like that. I’ll probably skip the carrots and keep some carrot baby food on hand for when I want to give her a little treat. I’ve heard in general rabbits missing incisors don’t do well with carrots, even chopped. I’ll have to see how she does with fruit, as I could imagine those getting stuck in her teeth really easily.

 

Taking her in two weeks from now for a post-op check and to get the sutures removed.

 

Anybody with rabbit that have had their incisors removed have any general tips?

 

[equalsign]

 It seems like she isn’t really eating her hay and is way hungry because of it. I cannot resist her begging right now after what she’s been through. Will her appetite for hay return once she figures out how to eat it well?

 

Also, should I be giving the medicam in multiple small doses throughout the day or just all at once? Each syringe contains .15 mL. It seems to suggest all at once on the package. Does it really last 24 hours? I’ll be calling the pet hospital tomorrow morning to confirm either way, but if anyone knows or has an idea that’d be great!

[BinkyBunny]

 As far as the medicam, I have always just followed the instructions.  It should say a certain dosage every so many hours or so many times per day.   If I remember right though my instructions were more like twice a day — but this is something you will need to check with your vet. 

 

Did the vet suggest giving critical care if she doesn’t eat right away on her own?

 

My bunny had her bottom incisor and several molars removed (over time). I have also volunteered at a rescue where I have seen several bunnies who had all of their incisors removed (due to severe malloclusions).  They did very well and just used their lips to pick up food and then they used their molars normally. 

 

In the beginning, you may want to cut up her veggies, but not too small — HRS suggest 2 inch pieces. But as your bunny gets used to this, you may not need to cut up leafy greens later — well, except wide leafy ones like Romaine lettuce.  When I adopted Rucy, (who was missing a bottom incisor), they suggested that I cut up her leafy greens into 1inch pieces, but actually, she did just fine as she never really used her incisors to cut most of the greens, she just used her lips to guide them back to her molars no problem. (however she did have a bottom incisor—though I never saw her use it.  

 

How will this affect her hay intake/ability to eat it?  It will take her time, but soon she will find her way. 

 

Is orchard grass going to be best from now on? I know that for my bunny, softer grass is what she preferred

 

Any tips for how to prevent this in the future, especially for my other bunny?   I never had this be something that was “preventable”.  Either I had a bunny that was more susceptible or not.  HOWEVER, before Rucy passed away we finally did get a culture done so that a med could be prescribed for her that would help prevent a reoccurance of the type of bacteria was found.    

 

I don’t know why some bunny’s have these issues and others don’t.  Sometimes it’s related to a malloclusion and even if there is a slight malloclusion it is best to keep a close eye and get teeth spurs and incisors trimmed when needed.   For Rucy, sometimes the spurs would capture extra food and it could get stuck in the side of her mouth, so I can imagine that could contribute to bacteria.  But I don’t know for sure.  She just always had a problem and nothing was different in her environment than my other bunnies who didn’t have the problem.   I don’t know if something in her past (being that she was a rescue) could have caused this or not.   

 

I think that if just keep a close eye on any new bumps (as it is not uncommon for them to reoccur in jaw area), and try to beat it when it’s smaller with meds.  Also, do regular oral check-up to prevent spurs and incisors from causing problems.   It will depend on your bunny’s tooth growth — you should have them checked often for the first year until you get an idea of how fast her incisors grow. Also, due to the fact she only has one set of incisors now, she may start getting spurs on her molars if her chewing changes a bit.  So have the molar checked too. 

 

Here is an article by the HRS that has some further tips http://www.rabbit.org/journal/2-6/tusks.html  (it’s focused on malloclusion and tooth removal, but if you scroll down to “after operation”, that may be helpful. 

[blueberry1233]

Hello could you check the picture on the forum https://binkybunny.com/tabid/54/aft/127595/Default.aspx and tell me if it became like this?

[Sarita]

blueberry this is a very old post and we ask members not to reply to old posts…also as mentioned before we recommend you have a vet look at it and you said you would.

[Sarita]

Also I am going to lock this thread.

[Author]

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