Stormy is very precious to me and it's really hard seeing him getting pushed around by Bindi. Last night we had an hour bonding session. The plan was to do a few hours but Bindi was especially bossy last night and after an hour Stormy had had enough. He hunched in the corner and wouldn't move so I ended the session. Last night Bindi kept chasing Stormy away from the hay (even though there were several hay spots), from the potty and pulling hunks of fur out. When we started bonding work and Bindi acted like this, Stormy would hold his ground, turn around and bite Bindi. Now he just runs away. Often he will come over to me when Bindi is being a bully. I wish he would stand up for himself a bit more.

It bothers me to see Stormy getting bullied. I love that little guy so much and I want him to be happy. Now I'm really starting to question if bonding is the right thing to do. I don't want Stormy pushed around and unhappy.

What are your thoughts? Do you think that most bunnies would prefer having a bully buddy to no buddy at all?

Bonding is stressful on us too and I think you're feeling that. Totally natural. My advice is try not get caught up on this particular issue as you are sensitive about this. Try be objective and look over the situation since you've been bonding because you're right, you have progressed well with the boys.

Some things to take note are:
-Is Stormys stress only evident in the sessions after Bindi has been bossing? Are you noticing any negative effects on him generally, outside of bonding sessions?
-Is Stormy stressed when putting himself away in the corner or is this his way of showing Bindi "I'm ignoring you and you're behaviour towards me".
-Are they boys showing an interest in one another outside of bonding sessions or is there stress present here too? I recall Jersey and Rumball seemed to individually migrate to my bathroom when they had their separate times out. I always read this as they were curious and perhaps looking for that other bunny despite the sometimes rocky moments during bonding.

What do you do when Bindi begins chasing Stormy off?

 

You may have to stress bond them, if he's bullying too much.

I agree with MB. If you think this won't cause adverse effects on Stormy, I think using something like a ride in a box or basket together before a session could help. Nothing too stressful, just something that causes them to seek comfort in one another. You could even try it when the chasing begins. It doesn't have to be overly stressful. It's more about removing them from an environment where a behaviour is escalating. Sort of "throwing a spanner in the works" so to speak. So if you pop them in a box, basket, Petzy cube (lol) or even on your lap,  then make it  calming, lots of pets, talking to them and reassurances. It helps you become calm too and they may pick on this. So though it's called a "stressing technique" it needn't be overly stressful. It just creates an opportunity for them to positively gravitate toward one another.

 

I am wondering if, in the past when this has happened, have you gone directly to Stormy's aid? If so, Bindi may be exhibiting some jealousy that you are showing Stormy what he perceives as 'more attention', and Stormy, like any bullied child, is going to run to you for help to keep the 'playground bully' away from him, instead of standing up for himself.
Of course that is me anthropomorphizing them, but it's the only answer I can think of given how you described the situation.

I think this is a very valid theory MM! Rabbits are sentinent and it's very possible Bindis behaviour could stem from something like this. Reading Tates thread about animal communication has been useful to me. It does prompt to think about things from a different perspective.

Sorry for the long post LPT. I don't want to say "Yay" or "Nay" either way in whether you should continue or not. I think it's good to give yourself a little break, distance yourself emotionally (but do use your good instincts) and then make a decision. I can certainly see your dilemma but I trust you'll know what to do. Your approach of taking a small break, doing some more work then assessing it from there sounds very good.
I hope you feel at peace in whatever you decide to do.

Thank you all for putting time and effort into giving me all this advice. I feel that I'm not ready to give up yet. I did another session last night but it was the same result: after an hour Stormy just hunched and wouldn't do anything. I didn't have any camera batteries so I couldn't get a video.

-Is Stormys stress only evident in the sessions after Bindi has been bossing? Are you noticing any negative effects on him generally, outside of bonding sessions?

Yes, he only seems stressed after Bindi chases him. Last night I let Stormy out in the living room for some alone time right after bonding and he immediately laid down. I'm not sure if that's just tiredness or stress. He and Bindi did some binkies while in the "bonding room" though. It was really cute.

-Is Stormy stressed when putting himself away in the corner or is this his way of showing Bindi "I'm ignoring you and you're behaviour towards me".

This I'm really not sure about. Either they are totally ignoring each other or Bindi is chasing (which I'm still not convinced whether it's play or bossiness but Stormy doesn't like it, either way.)

-Are they boys showing an interest in one another outside of bonding sessions or is there stress present here too?

They live side by side so they are interested in what the other is doing. Stormy has gotten loose a few times and went to sniff Bindi's cage (there is a gap between the door) and Bindi tried to bite him.

What do you do when Bindi begins chasing Stormy off?

The chasing is usually very brief but at times when he pursues I gently push him away. I'm going to give the laundry basket trick a go tonight.

I just want them to be friends. We've been working on this for so long now and they just haven't warmed up to each other. More or less accepted each other but no affection at all. Is it possible they will never warm up to each other?

My biggest concern is that I bond them and move them in together and Stormy is unhappy. I'm afraid that he will be unhappy and I will be unable to tell or that he's very unhappy and stressed and I have to break up the bond which might cause Bindi to become upset.

I'm also getting frustrated because this bonding work is terribly time-consuming and just seems to be going on forever.

Posted By LittlePuffyTail on 08/01/2011 05:21 AM

They live side by side so they are interested in what the other is doing. Stormy has gotten loose a few times and went to sniff Bindi's cage (there is a gap between the door) and Bindi tried to bite him.

                This is something that if it doesn't stop, or it becomes more frequent, that I would back off from. Too easy for an older Stormy to get injured by a younger, quicker and obviously angrier Bindi. But that's just me.

I just want them to be friends. We've been working on this for so long now and they just haven't warmed up to each other. More or less accepted each other but no affection at all. Is it possible they will never warm up to each other?
                       

                    I'm sure I've asked this before but, is there no chance of eventually adding Olivia to the mix? Perhaps the offset of the odd bun (not saying she's odd, just that she's the third one...lol) might help balance the relationship of the boys?

My biggest concern is that I bond them and move them in together and Stormy is unhappy. I'm afraid that he will be unhappy and I will be unable to tell or that he's very unhappy and stressed and I have to break up the bond which might cause Bindi to become upset.

I'm also getting frustrated because this bonding work is terribly time-consuming and just seems to be going on forever.

                      That's understandable. We've had quite a few folks on the board have some relatively easy bonds of late (giving you all the evil eye...lol) and it's so disparaging when it doesn't work that way for us.

                       Reading your posts, the similarities between our bunnies, their current living conditions and the way we want to improve/change them continue with mind-boggling consistency. I am just about ready to being my own bonding challenge, as soon as I can figure out what is now going on with Pip and her 'stinky' problem. I would be thrilled to see us both get our trios together soon.

                       But if for some reason it doesn't work out as either of us are expecting, well, at least we tried and we both want to do what is best for our little fuzzbutts.

                     

Thanks for your reply, Mimz. Yes, it still astounds me too...our similarities.

When I first began bonding work with my buns the plan was ambitious: I was hoping for a trio. But I did some thinking and I strongly feel that Olivia is better off as a single bun. She is super nervous and insanely territorial. I really think trying to bond her would put her and the boys over the edge and result in at least one bun getting injured.. She's been either terrified and shaking or super aggressive in any situation I've tried (sitting them side by side mostly). Seeing as though the boys are taking so very long to warm up to each other I think adding Olivia will just complicate and confuse them even more.

I would be happy with only my boys bonded. That way I could possibly work something out like the boys get the rabbit room free-range and Olivia gets the living room free-range. That would be perfect for us all I think.

I wasn't able to do any work with the boys yesterday as we were outside building our storage shed till like 10. You know one of those projects that takes like 5 hours longer than planned?

Jersey- I don't understand why buns get so stressed out/cranky when they are molting. It's like bunny PMS. I can understand being cranky right after being groomed but I never do bonding then.

Lintini- That's sort of the situation with the "toy room" where I'm doing my sessions. I put all kinds of strange stuff in there to climb on and stuff. Bindi's having fun knocking all Ricky's toys off the lower shelves and then chinning them. That makes Daddy nervous.

So, basically, is the plan to wait until they are best buds before moving to semi-neutral?

I wish Petzy was here.

Me too. I just wish she would stop in to tell how she and the bunnies are making out.

But I'm very appreciative of all of your help.

Did an hour session last night. Bindi's pretty much done his big shed. They completely ignored each other the entire time. Going to let them spend most of the evening together tonight and see how that goes.

My latest problem with the boys is that they are spending more time together (we're in the kitchen now which is a bit smaller) but the only thing they do together is lay down with their faces smooshed together. They don't do anything else together and there still hasn't been any grooming. The last 2 days, immediately after snuggling, Bindi grabs a huge hunk of fur off Stormy's rump (thankfully Stormy has very thick fur so there hasn't been any injuries) and Stormy takes off. I feel so bad for the little guy.

Why is Bindi doing this? They seem all snuggly and lovey and then he snaps. It's really adding to Stormy's mistrust of Bindi. Most of the time when Bindi approaches, Stormy stomps hard and runs away. Advice needed!

Bindi has a vet appointment Friday evening. Should I bring Stormy a long to help the trust issue?