Supremely Hungry Bunnies.

[Tate]

 I have posted on the BB forum before, but not on this particular board so I will do somewhat of a recap before I ask my question…

I got Fievel about 2 months ago when he was 7 weeks old (so close to 5 months now) and I’ve had Velvateen since last September so he is now about 9 months old. Velvateen is a netherland dwarf  mix and Fievel is a holland lop. They both went to the vet last week (V for a check up and Fie to get neutered) and they were 2.12 lbs (Fievel) and 2.02 lbs (Velvateen). I took Fievel to the vet the first week I had him for a check up and he weighed 1.2 lbs. Velvateen hadn’t been to the vet since December ’10 and he was 1.3 lbs. 

I noticed quickly with Fievel that he must be some sort of rabbit/pig/something else that eats it’s own body weight daily hybrid. I didn’t think too much of it but asked the vet recommended food quantites and she said limit it to about 2 tbsp a day. He was eating about a cup of pellets a day…

I never had that problem with Velvateen. I could keep his food bowl filled up completely and he still only ate what he wanted, which really wasn’t much. 

But now that I’m feeding only twice a day and about 1 tbsp in the morning and 1 at night, they are both ravengingly hungry. As soon as I take out their bowls, they are in their cages hopping around, nudging me, etc. 

Fievel particularly is very sensitive to pellets (we’ve tried a few different brands). If he gets too many pellets/cookies/whatever, he poops pretty much only cecals. But he would still eat the entire bag of food if I let him. 

I guess I’m just worried that I’m not giving them enough food for their specific needs. They are very active (cages when I’m gone or at night, but usually anywhere from 8-10 hours a day that they are running around the apartment) and even though V is almost 9 months, it could still be considered young and he could still be growing, right? They have hay (orchard grass and timothy from local farmers) at all times neither are into it. I often see Fievel eating some here or there throughout the day, but they don’t seriously sit down and eat it like they do with pellets. Velvateen (who is terribly dramatic) was just eating his Carefresh…

Also, they don’t get veggies regularly. Partly because there has been 3 feet of snow on the ground and I don’t have a car to get to the grocery store which is like a mile away and partly because Fievel especially gets belly problems when he eats his veggies..

So, this is more ranting about my bunnies’ eating habits/asking for advice.. if there is even any to give? I’m concerned they will not get what they need nutritionally with how they are eating now. 

My other issue is that they will not eat timothy pellets. I have them on Oxbow alfalfa pellets and they love them, but I had previously tried the timothy based Oxbow pellets, but they both just picked out the alfalfa for weeks! My vet said that 80-90% of their diet should be hay anyway, so I figure at least I would give them quality alfalfa rather than another alfalfa pellet, but with the way they are eating, I don’t think 80-90% of their diet is hay, even though I’m restricting it. Thoughts?

[Huckleberry]

You do need to give them hay, unlimited hay. If you aren’t sure they are eating it, try giving them a small handful of fresh hay and watch to see how long it takes to disappear. You may try getting a variety of hays like timothy, alfalfa, meadow grass, or oat hay, and then mixing the variety together to encourage them to eat it. I read on the BB section about food that taking older hay, putting it back in the back and mixing it around gives the hay that fresh scent and the buns are more interested in it again.
As for food, alfalfa pellets are fattening. My vet told me that they were to be treated like puppy chow, its great for bunnies under 6 months but after that they need to be a on timothy based pellets, like Oxbow adult-T (I think that was the name) and then to simply follow the feeding directions on the back.
As for veggies, they need around 2 cups of veggies a day. What kind have you tried? Some veggies give buns gas, like broccoli, and others are too high in sugar, like carrots. (Im not 100% on the exact reasons, like too high in sugar or fat, but I know Alfalfa bad for adults, Carrots are to be treated like candy). Have you tried kale, cilantro, parsley, collard greens or mustard greens? My bun is pretty picky but those are her favorites.

Good luck with them!

[BunnyBuns7]

I agree with livingonfath854. They need lots of hay. Honestly, what you described is what my rabbit does every single day. She is a netherland dwarf. She gets two tablespoons of pellets, unlimited hay and a small cup a veggies per day. She is always eager to eat. I wouldn’t really worry about it unless they are losing weight. They also need to be switched to the timothy based pellets. The alfalfa is too high in protein once they’re adults. Have you mixed the timothy pellets with the alfalfa? They can be picky and not want to, but you just need to be consistent. Slowly mix the two.

[Sarita]

I have a netherland and he hardly touches his pellets at all. He’s not a big eater at all. He’ll eat his hay and some veggies but he doesn’t seem like he’s starving. As for the way they are acting, the ravishing hunger, is more of a response – you feed them, they eat it when you feed them.

Definitely do not restrict hay. They should always be allowed to have it and eat it at their will.

[LoveChaCha]

My Netherland scarfs up her tablespoon of breakfast pellets. I treat pellets as a vitamin supplement. Rabbits, if given, will eat a bunch of pellets if allowed, but we all know all pellets will do is make them fat if given too much.

I feed my rabbit Orchard grass. She loves it.. but yes, monitoring hay intake is a good indication of how much your bun is eating.

[Tate]

They do have hay at all times, but they aren’t into it. I’ve tried a few different kinds of hay as well as getting it from local farmers to just buy a name brand at a pet store. I’m glad to know that other buns are like this too, but still worries me. Velvateen eats paper over his hay! I will keep at it and especially start to add in Timothy hay pellets. :\

[Monkeybun]

If they really do NOT want to eat hay, you may have to restrict them to ONLY hay. Sometimes it is the only thing that works to get them eating it. And they MUST eat it.

[Tate]

Monkeybun, do you think it is really safe to do this? And could I ever begin to incorporate pellets again as a supplement like LoveChaCha does? And about how long would that be? Days, weeks, months? Thanks!

[jerseygirl]

I’ve read before some picky hay eaters came to love hay after being restricted to only hay. But I’m not sure it would work for every bun. I have a non-hay eater and it’s been very sporadic with her. When she did eat hay she didn’t chew it and it caused problems. I now have her on hay cubes (sort of a large hard pellet but made of hay) and it has been the one thing that has her producing normal looking droppings.

I’m sort of a fence-sitter on the timothy v’s alfalfa pellet thing especially when given in limited quantities. That could be because alfalfa pellets are the only type made here in Australia – it’s known as lucerne here. Quality is a must though. I’ve found some alfalfa based pellets can match some tim based ones in protein and fibre. There are also alfafa and tim based pellets on the market that are equally dismal on balanced nutrition. It’s all the other things, grain middlings, soy, corn, wheat, oats etc that can up the carbs in pellets.

Which ever you feed, it’s likely they’ll behave like it’s a treat and get excited. What times do you feed them? Maybe you could try once a day and a bit less then what they currently get. Twice a day might sustain them too long so they don’t go looking for the hay. I tend to see mine go for hay later at night. Also, veggies seem to stimulate their appetite for hay a little so even if you gave a small amount of greens (even dandelions or fresh grasses) as their meal later in the day, it might encourage them to seek out the hay.

How do you provide the hay? In a rack? In the litter box? Sometimes a switch up or even serving in on a plate (lol) can get some interested.

[peppypoo]

If you don’t want to limit to ONLY hay, I’ve heard it suggested before that you might want to try feeding pellets in the morning and only hay at night, so that he still has the nutrients of pellets but has to fill his tummy with hay for the rest of the day/during the night.

[Tate]

Jerseygirl- I have been wondering too about alfalfa vs. timothy. Since they get less than two tbsp/day, and it is a higher quality food, how bad could it be? Also, I checked the protein percentages.. the Oxbow alfalfa has 15.0% protein whereas the Oxbow timothy has 14.0%. Does anyone know how big of a difference this really is?
I had hay in a hay rack, but both of them threw it down so I’m not doing that anymore They have a smaller litterbox filled with only hay and a large one that is actually their “litterbox” with some hay in the corner.
I have been feeding them around 8:00am and 8:00pm but I’m thinking that I will go to once a day. I just hate seeing hungry bunnies! I’m a sucker, I know.
One more question, while I have you guys here! How bad is it to switch hays? As in, going from timothy to orchard grass to timothy again to whatever. I only ask because I know that they get belly aches when their pellets are switched, so I was wondering if this happened with hay too? I feel like they are especially interested in “new” hays. When I first got the orchard grass, they were all over it but now it’s old hat to them.

[jerseygirl]

I think rabbits naturally graze on different vegetation over time so I don’t think hay switch ups aren’t a big deal. To play it safe, just provide a bit of the old with the new at first. There’s a lot of variety in hay anyway, depending on the season, cut, region it’s grown, how old it is. So the rabbits may be used to some change in the hay already.  If you can get hay from a farm, see if you can get it in smaller amounts (like a flake) and it might stay fresher and more appealing.

I don’t use a rack either. I found it put my boy Rumball off and he’s the hay eater around here.

I believe HRS recommends pellets 18% or more in fibre, 12-14% protein, less than 3% fat. It doesn’t specify alfalfa or tim. I think at the time there were really Tim pellets available. So while yours at 15% protein is a little higher, so long as the fibre is higher then 18% and you feed in very limited amount, I think you can get away with it (my opinion). The fibre regulates how long the food will travel thru their systems. Rabbits are meant to have it pass thru quickly so the higher the fibre, the quicker it will move thru. Apparently.

The frustrating thing with pellets is there is not always a minimum AND maximum listed. That really annoys me. I guess the percentages can vary depending on the hays they use but surely they can give an estimate. With oxbow Bunny Basics T for example it lists minimum 14% protein, min 2% fat but no max for either. Doesn’t that mean it could be upward of 14% protein, 2% fat? They do however give a min/max for fibre which is good. Plus it’s the better pecentage around then most pellets.

[BunnyBuns7]

I can’t say I know for a fact, but I’ve never heard of any problems switching hays, and I personally haven’t had any issues with it. I like to switch it up for my bun. 😀

[Monkeybun]

Posted By Tate on 03/23/2011 04:28 PM
Monkeybun, do you think it is really safe to do this? And could I ever begin to incorporate pellets again as a supplement like LoveChaCha does? And about how long would that be? Days, weeks, months? Thanks!

 

Sure is. Hay should be about 90% of their diet, really. So if they arenn’t eating any, and you’ve tried everythign else, it’s a last resort thing to cut out everything else. Sometimes it’s them just needing to learn that it’s food too. Or, sometimes theya re super picky and you just need to find a hay they like

 

But yes, it IS safe to do if needed.

[Otti]

It sounds like Fievel is the one with the more delicate stomach while Velveteen doesn’t have digestion issues and is a bit older right?

The real issue is that they’re not eating hay. Don’t let them boycott you by making you feel like you’re starving them. Make sure they eat their hay because that’s the most important thing.

I think the idea someone mentioned of only giving them pellets once a day (combining the dose you usually split between morning and night) would maybe be helpful, so eventually they’d get hungry enough at night to eat hay.

You should also keep trying different varieties of hay. It can get expensive to explore different hay options but it’s important that you try all you can to make sure you see if there is any hay your rabbits will eat more readily. So within your financial possibilities, keep trying. You might want to try oat hay (which they sell in mini bales on the binkybunny store) or third cut timothy (which lots of pick hay eaters like and is sold at http://www.kmshayloft.com).

My rabbit loves the binkybunny golden oat mini bale and the three hay blend mini bale (timothy, orchard, blue grass).

[Tate]

Thanks for all of the advice!
I am going to start feeding them once/day and see if that helps and perhaps taper them off of pellets all together.

Otti, Fievel does have a sensitive belly, but I’m more concerned with Velvateen. Fievel does eat hay, just not very much but Velvateen will eat his carefresh before touching hay… :\
I have switched up the hay a few times and they are always interested in it at first and then it goes by the wayside. I am definitely going to try the oat hay from BB and possibly the 3rd cut timothy! Thanks for the recommendations!!

[Otti]

Oh, if Velvateen is eating a significant amount of Carefresh, you have to switch litter. That would be if he’s eating more than just a couple pieces a day. The carefresh can lead to stomach blockages if he’s eating more than just a bit.

My rabbit Sammy started eating his Carefresh when he was having teeth/jaw issues because of an abscess. I think he couldn’t eat his hay because it was too hard to chew, so he tried to fill up on the Carefresh. The vet told me to immediately remove all Carefresh from his habitat and now he only has safe paper (from the yellow pages or newspaper) in his litter box with hay on top of it. I might try switching to wood stove pellets but just haven’t gotten around to it. I can no longer use the Carefresh though because he still eats it, even though his medical issues are resolved thankfully.

Velvateen might possibly be having teeth issues, but if so he would probably also stop eating his pellets… which you’re saying he’s eating greedily. It might be worth a vet visit if he hasn’t had his teeth checked recently, but that depends on whether you think he’s having trouble eating other stuff too…

Also, in terms of them getting ‘tired’ of their hay, it might help to ‘fluff’ it once a day (just move it around, mix it up) and/or change it once a day even if they didn’t eat it.

[Tate]

I don’t think he’s eating too much of it, but I’m definitely going to switch over to litter anyways. I’ve been thinking about more and more and now that they are in an Xpen and use litter boxes, I’m thinking of getting the Yesterday’s News.
I would do paper but Velvateen is a MASSIVE paper eater. I think he eats the Carefresh when he runs out of paper. Haha.
Both were at the vet last month, V for a check up and Fievel to get neutered. They said teeth and everything else looked fine! I’m generally on their case about checking teeth because I’m terribly paranoid when it comes to their health.

[mocha200]

You could buy one bag of oat and one bag of 3 cut timothy ( or box) and feed oat hay for one or two days, and then feed the timothy hay for one or two days so that they don’t get tired of it.

[Otti]

If he’s eating carefresh and paper, he might still eat the Yesterday’s News.

Teeth problem can be hard to see unless the rabbit is asleep, so make sure you still monitor their eating for patterns/changes and see what they will eat and what they are refusing. If they stop eating their veggies as well, or their pellets I’d worry more.

Sammy’s teeth checked out ‘fine’ a week before his eating started to go down hill. Initially he was just sniffling and we thought it was just a respiratory infection so not tooth-related but once he started to get more and more selective in his eating and eventually stopped eating altogether they knew it was tooth-related. They still had to put him to sleep to really get a good look though.

[Monkeybun]

If litter eating is an issue, you may want to invest in a grate to go over the litter in the box

[Jenna, Chubs & Comet]

I think some bunnies act hungry all the time…My boys get 1/4 cup of pellets to share in the morning and 1/4 cup at night. They also get around 5 or 6 cups of veggies a night and have unlimted hay. Despite that, they ALWAYS act starving when it’s time for pellets or veggies. You would think I never feed them anything! I have one bun who would eat and eat and eat too and one who eats when he is hungry. It’s actually why I switched to giving the smaller amount of pellets twice a day. Comet would eat and eat the pellets and Chubs would eat a little and be done. So…Comet was getting extra and Chubs was getting less. Now they get about even amounts! They go through phases with how much hay they eat too…sometimes I feel like I’m filling their hay net constantly and sometimes it lasts a couple of days. My one will occasionally eat a a bit of his Carefresh too…it worried me at first but it doesn’t seem to effect him or his poo so I figure as long as it’s not excessive…Oh and I had to try a few different kinds of timothy pellets before I found a kind they both really liked. Neither one of them would touch ox-bow! Good luck, this can be frustrating!

[Tate]

Just an update..
They are both eating their hay again!! I have cut back on pellets. They each get maybe a tbsp or less every morning and that is it. No other snacks during the day other than hay. I haven’t ever seen them eat this much! I just ordered oat hay from BB and also papaya tablets… hoping that they might get some special snack during the day and I heard papaya is good for digestion issues.
Thank you so much for the replies! I am glad that seem fine, although I’m still keeping an eye on them.

[LoveChaCha]

Haha Im glad to hear Tate : )
Good bunnies!!!!

[Malp_15]

My vet the other day said that alfalfa has too much calcium to be fed over a long period of time. She said it can lead to a number of calcium related problems.

[Author]

Messages