Fiver’s right rear hock is now hairless

[MimzMum]

So Fiver has been on his metronidazole for two days now. This morning while giving him his dose, I took a look at his rear feet, which had been a lovely healthy pink the day we went in to the vet and no further damage seemed apparent. In fact the worst spot on the right heel was completely healed up and a beautiful baby powder pink.

Today his right rear hock is bald and darker pink/sore looking. The skin is exposed from the heel to a two inch line up his leg.

He is doing better in his other departments. No messy cecals that I can see, poops returning to normal size, if not volume and he is overall a happier bunny…except when it’s medicine time, of course.

Can metronidazole cause this much (if any) hair loss in two days’ time? I KNOW it wasn’t this bad when we went in on Saturday. How could it have gotten so bare so fast??

I do see him washing more and better. No more poopy butt. Maybe he’s started overgrooming his foot?

I put some HealRx on his feet, even his front toes which also seemed a bit irritated, though not as much as a week ago, and of course he goes and licks it right off after I finally let him go. (I do hold him for awhile after application to keep him from doing that, but he manages to slurp some off anyway.) It won’t affect the other medicine he’s taking, will it? It shouldn’t hurt his insides any?

My poor wee bub. If it’s not one thing it’s another.   However, he IS eating better and I am hearing good tummy gurgles again, something I hadn’t noticed were absent recently. Plus we had some nice one-on-one time yesterday where he came out and felt like tooling around on the bed and cuddling again. Mimz was a little put out that he didn’t get to be right there with him, but I’ll make it up to him. I did notice that Fiver is more likely to eat and drink if I am within sight of him. So I’m spending a little more time with him throughout the day. I sometimes wonder if it’s me he’s bonded to, and so when I’m not there he’s more likely to brood.

I’m probably going to see about a follow-up even if his stomach returns to normal on account of that bare foot, OH…and his ear is acting up again, he kept scratching and shaking it last night…but…does anyone know about a link between fur loss and metronidazole? And is there anything else I can do to pad that foot, besides having the cushiest linens in his habitat? I wish I could wrap it in something that he wouldn’t tear off and eat.

I’m risking putting a little carefresh in his litterbox for a few days, because his YN is awfully hard on his little feet. If someone has an alternative to this (we can’t use feline pine or good mews with him either) please post. Thankies!

 

[Monkeybun]

Maybe try just hay and newspaper? Would that be better on his feet? It wouldn’t be great for odor control, but may be worth a try

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

Awwww {{{Fiver}}}

I was thinkingn while reading-perhaps he’s pulling the fur out-like you said? I really don’t see how the medicine could cause hair loss on one foot but not another-perhaps when he’s grooming the Healrx off, he’s taking some fur out too?

When i put something on Ruperts foot, I wrap it in vet wrap and that will sometimes stay on him for a while…it helps it absorb for a bit anyways. I wonder about putting a cone on Fiver for a bit after you’ve put the topical stuff on? Maybe? I hate putting cones on them, they make you feel so guilty-but it helps.

What is the healrx you said-is that a bunny pressure sore cream?

Might try putting those rubber puzzle peices underneath coroplast or whathave you, and then your regular stuff (linens or blankies)-for more softness. I use cubes under Ruperts spots and it seems to help a bit.

[MimzMum]

Thanks K&K, today was the first day I’d put the HealRx on in a while, so it’s like the fur loss occurred in just the last few days.
He’s been so uncomfortable during the months he’s had cecal dysbiosis that he pretty much gave up washing his bummy area and feet. So perhaps he’s begun to do that again and is getting too aggressive with his fur there. It’s sad because I notice it can be really easy to pull it off, when my daughter and I would wash his rear end and feet for him, we had to be ultra careful not to pull the fur loose instead of just washing it.
So yeah, as long as it isn’t being caused by the metronidazole. We hadn’t planned on stopping the treatment, it does seem to be helping him immensely, I just didn’t want it to be hurting these already sore feet. My vet’s office called today to check on him, and I reported the problem, but she didn’t get back to me.
A cone…*shudder*…jeez he’s been so stressed I’d hate to have to go to that extreme, but I don’t want him to open up that skin. I’ll keep him in my lap for longer to help the stuff sink in, but I’m mostly concerned that he’s lost so much foot fluff. I guess I don’t have any hope of that fur growing back, do I?
Vet wrap? Do you mean, like gauze? I could ask my vet if they have something like that to use on him. I’ll just have to be careful he doesn’t try to pull it off and ingest it.
Too bad there’s no product like New Skin for bunnies…that would be ideal. I wouldn’t have to worry so much about the fur being gone.

[LittlePuffyTail]

I know how frustrating sore hocks can be, Mimz. I deal with them on and off with Bindi. Nothing I do makes them stop flaring up. Just hang in there!  It’s so frustrating how one day they look fine and the next they are all red. I deal with this almost weekly.

Perhaps all the washing and having his feet wet caused the loss of fur? Having the hocks wet is really bad for sore hocks. Make sure to keep his feet really clean and dry and if you wash his bum make sure to dry his feet off really well. Is his sore flat or more blister like? My vet said when it gets puffy it can progress rapidly and open up and at that point can get infected and would need oral antibiotics just in case.

When Olivia’s feet got really bad and bleeding/scabbed. I put a TON of hay in her cage. Extremely thick hay is the absolute best thing to get the weight off their feet. It made a huge mess all over my rabbit room floor but in a couple of days she really improved.

You can use New Skin for bunnies. It’s reccommended on a lot of rabbit sites and in the book “When your Rabbit Needs Special Care”. They say to use the paint on kind though, not the spray. I’ve never used it. I mentioned it to my vet and she gave me DermaGel which is specifically made for animals and it soothes and coats. It helped Olivia’s feet.

Vet wrap is a self-adhesive gauze used for animals. You can buy it at the vet’s office or online at horse supply stores. Comes in lots of funky colours and it’s only a couple of bucks. I’ve never tried bandaging because I know it would just get torn off.

[MimzMum]

LPT and MB, thanks for the hay idea. So far, when there’s been hay in his litterbox, he won’t enjoy pottying in there, and he gets mad and begins to pull the hay out piece by piece..you know how they do it when they’re frustrated with you? But I went ahead and used the carefresh again last night and put his fleece blankie in for him too. He was really lounging on the blanket till I had to pull him out for his night dose…then he was all agitated after that. >.<

I brought him out and had my daughter look at his feet last night because, oh dear, the left foot looks like the hair is stripped off an inch long there as well! ~_~ So when I showed her (since she’s the one who always did the washing-and drying, we never put him away otherwise-she claimed his feet have always looked like that! Huh?? Now I know I have bad eyesight, but I don’t recall his feet being this bare, so I think she’s mistaken. She reminded me though that the fur on the sides of his feet grow a little longer and almost cover the bottoms like a bald man’s comb-over…but still…not enough cushion for that bare skin.

There don’t appear to be any open sores as of yet, that’s what I’m trying to avoid with the HealRx. But I have to admit I am discouraged.
I’m floored that New Skin is used for bunnies! Wait, now that I think of it, my other vet gave me some kind of sealant for the feet that was used for sled dogs, but I could never manage it because it was like petromalt and it would get so sticky all over everything and take too long to dry. (at that time, Fiver was not happy about being held) She also told me I couldn’t let him lick it off, it wouldn’t be good for his tummy. *sigh* I’m trying everything I can to keep these feet from getting worse, all he needs is another medicine that he hates having shoved in his mouth. (Definitely have to have his molars looked at, he’s really sensitive any time you touch his face now. More than usual, it seems to me.)

This morning there’s some evidence of spotting from his bum on the blanket. I don’t know what’s causing that, perhaps just the lotion he licked off his feet. He did have an apple twig yesterday, the only other new thing in his diet besides the willow treats, which he tolerates well now. It’s not terrible, but we had dry, clean bedding the last few days, now this. I hope he’s not relapsing or becoming immune to the effects of the metronidazole.

My internet died last night before I could get back in here to thank you all for your replies. We’ve got -40’s temps for another few days and for some reason when the weather goes to extremes our phone line and our internet line die on us. It’s a very unsettling feeling. Thank God we have cell phones or we’d have no way of communication with the outside world. Even the glorious DTV was out! >.< (No surprise there, it hasn't been as reliable as it was pumped up to be at all.)

I’ll try to get a picture of Fiver’s feet tonight. I hate even posting it, it looks so awful and makes me feel like a terrible bunny mum.

[Monkeybun]

Oh like you could be a bad bunny mum. *bonk*

Fiver just likes being difficult You’ll find something that will work for his feetsies, may just take a bit of time and trial and error.

Fiver, stop being difficult, mister bun!

[MimzMum]

He just got his first dose of the day, and is summarily shooting stinkeye now. ~_~
Anyway, will have to wait until my daughter can help with the pix. His feet don’t look any worse than yesterday, but I can’t see them real well close up. My eyes are so bad now it’s scary.
I just hate having to remove him from his habitat to dose him, because unlike Mimzy, he will not hold still and let you squirt the meds in. He runs and thumps all around his pen (although NOT out the open door) so I can’t get the dose done. Then when I’m holding him he’s fussing and pulling his head away and pursing his lips more than a little kid with cough syrup. Only my daughter was this difficult with medicines when she was little. (remembers the horrors)

[LittlePuffyTail]

I would like to see the pics of his feet.

If YOUR a bad bunny mommy then I’M a bad bunny mommy (and I am not!!!!! ) because I’ve had and am still having sore hocks issues despite all the care, time and money I have put into their feet. So don’t feel bad.

[MimzMum]

*gurgle* Forgot to get the pic again! *groan-headdesk*
I’ll have my daughter help me with it tonight. Hopefully Fiver won’t be in as much of a lousy mood as he was for this morning’s dose. >.< I've got his tire tracks all over me.

[jerseygirl]

I brought him out and had my daughter look at his feet last night because, oh dear, the left foot looks like the hair is stripped off an inch long there as well! ~_~ So when I showed her (since she’s the one who always did the washing-and drying, we never put him away otherwise-she claimed his feet have always looked like that! Huh?? Now I know I have bad eyesight, but I don’t recall his feet being this bare, so I think she’s mistaken. She reminded me though that the fur on the sides of his feet grow a little longer and almost cover the bottoms like a bald man’s comb-over…but still…not enough cushion for that bare skin.

Are you talking about along the hock? From the “heel” toward the toes? I see that bare area and understand that is normal wearing of the fur.
I was thinking you are seeing the fur loss up the back of his leg, is that right?
So you see him grooming that area a lot?

[MimzMum]

No it’s up the leg towards the toes. That’s normal??
The poor thing, I cringe every time he thumps (which he’s doing a lot lately because of the medicine dosing) because I figure that’s only making it worse.
He’s definitely grooming it more regularly than he was before, and keeping himself cleaner. It’s good to see him doing that, but I don’t want him to overdo it.

[jerseygirl]

I think so…
Probably much more noticeable in a rex. Your mention of a comb over reminded me of a post by Andi. She posted concerns about her jersey wooly Baby’s feet. Anyway, her vet told her this was normal wear.
Here’s the thread if you wanted to take a look. The pics that were in it now aren’t active unfortunately.
https://binkybunny.com/FORUM/tabid/54/aft/111885/Default.aspx

[MimzMum]

I remember that thread. Dang, I wish the pix were still up.
Anyway, I’ll do my best to snap some this evening when I dose him and put some of the HealRx on him. Hopefully the salve isn’t causing him to have more trouble with his tummy.
He’s been snuggled in his last clean cuddly cup all day. I had to wash three this morning because each time he’d sit in one he’d have a mushy cecal. I don’t know why he’s relapsed. But I don’t want those bare feet getting all poopy again. >_<
Maybe I should have LizzieKnittyBun make him some booties? ^_^

[Dee]

Aw Mimz, I’m sorry you’re having such a difficult time with poor Fiver. Sometimes it seems like one health issue triggers a bunch of other in these little animals- it’s so nervewracking. I’m gonna goback to school to work fulltime and I keep thinking “How will I do it if my bunnies ever get sick”? It really takes over your life- constant worrying and vet visits and of course the medicine .. I hated giving Bun his meds, I felt SO guilty cuz he struggled frantically and got all terrified every time. The worst is when they are hanging out looking comfy and happy and you have to grab them up and dose em. But it’s the right thing to do. And btw- you are an amazing bunny mom! Nobody who wasn’t completely dedicated would put so much care and effort into nursing their bunny back to health. I hope things start going more smoothly for you.
{{{{{{healing vibes for Fiver}}}}}}

[MimzMum]

Thanks Dee. We actually got a call back from the vet’s office (not the vet who saw him, unfortunately) and she said if I’m really concerned to bring another sample in for them to test. He’s had a little loose stool earlier today, but it’s not as bad as yesterday, so I’m guessing it may be the benebac.

At any rate, here’s the pix of his heels. Right one first. Unfortunately the left foot doesn’t show up the skin well, but you can see how the fur covers the bare patch.

Heelllpp meee! 0_o

You can maybe see his toes on his front foot here too…they’re a little pink. I know his nails look long, but we just cut them. The quicks are protruding pretty far.

You can barely see the left heel peeking from under the fur.

Plus a few just for fun. He’s really getting into licking my skin right under my collar after his medicine. I think he uses the salty taste of my skin to help mask the nasty tasting meds! (Of course we couldn’t get one with his tongue out!)

 

D’awes!

[lashkay]

I only have a little to offer – for the sore hocks. If you put some kind of salve or ointment on it – that the vet approves of, you can secure it on the foot with baby socks. Also, I’ve heard application of damp tea leaves are soothing on sore hocks – steep the tea til strong, drain the tea leaves, squeeze, cool to room temp and bathe the foot in the tealeaves. Carefresh stays dry to the touch even when soaked up with urine, and I’ve used nothing but carefresh (ultra, now) for all my 4 rabbits I’ve had over the years. My first bunny Lash lost all the hair on the bottoms of her hind feet. I used a tarp to cover the carpet where she had free run. While eating at her dish, she would urinate and sit in it, and this and the surface of the tarp, maybe, I attributed to the hairless condition of her feet – urine scald and the surface of the tarp. Over the years she would infrequently develop sores like Fivers and the vet would apply medication and bandage the foot – to no avail, she would just chew the bandage off. This was before I ever knew the tip about a baby sock on the treated foot. To make a long story short, she lived seven and a half years, exceeding her projected life span of five years (she was a Netherland Dwarf) by two and a half years and didn’t seem to be too bothered by her feet, wasn’t mincing, or hopping in a way to avoid putting pressure on her feet. I never did pinpoint why her feet were hairless all over, and none of my other bunnies have had this problem. Buddie, Dustor and Petie had and have healthy fully furred feet, don’t stand in urine and stand on the carefresh which I change ever 3-4 days. I would never use a tarp again for bunnies’ feet. They have linoleum sheeting as their pen floors. They also have soft fleece baby blankets they can lay on when they so choose. Hope this may help to share my experience.

[jerseygirl]

Hi Fiver! He’s so cute!!!

To me, the skin looks in good nick (but I don’t know what;s normal for a rex).  The skin is nice & pink, no sores or inflamed areas from what I can see. It sort of shows that his weight is being evenly distributed along the hock rather then just the heel.  I can see how it would take much for them to get sores without that extra fur so what you do to avoid that is currently working I reckon.

What do you use on his cage floor? Some materials like carpets and towels can actually abrade the fur despite looking soft and cushy.

Re: teabags, I’ve heard of that also. I think LPT mentioned doing it too. Might be something you could do while Fiver is out having his medicine.

Imagining Fiver in knitted booties gave me a giggle. Some angora rabbit wool ones. Can you imagine?

[LittlePuffyTail]

I agree with Jersey. The colour of his hocks is not that bad compared to how Olivia’s and Bindi’s have been. They have had like cherry-red sores. Those look pretty pink. Bindi also has that long naked strip going towards his toes too. It’s sort of covered with a bit of fur like a combover. When his hocks flare up that whole area often gets red. Bindi has the same type of nails. They look very long but they are clipped to the quick. He has a super long quick which really doesn’t help his foot situation because I can’t clip them as short as I would like.

I’d say for right now, just maintenance to keep them from getting worse. Dry thick as possible bedding, short nails and daily feet checks.

Love that last pic. Makes me want to go grab and snuggle my rex! 

[RabbitPam]

Awwwww. Love the pix.

Spockie had smaller pink hairless spots on his hocks, that were very similar. I don’t think any of the fur grew back completely. I believe it is looking pretty normal for a Rex foot that has been sore at least once. Spockie’s happened mostly in the car ride from MA to FL when he was standing in sloshed water too long, but he was always prone to little pink areas. So common with rexes, that Fiver’s look quite average to me, not any worse certainly.

I like the socks idea. Also, have we suggested (or ruled out) Bag Balm?

[jerseygirl]

I detect RP is a big fan now of the ol’ Bag Balm. : P

Regarding feet being wet, Mimz do you have to wipe his feet a bit when he has his butt washes or could you cover them so as not to get wet?
He has that little bit of staining just in front of the bald patch. Was the fur where the patch is stained or typically wet before. That might have speed up some of the fur loss. His feet are lovely and clean by the way. You, your daugther and Fiver do a good job.

@ LPT, I don’t know if it would be effective but if you do little tip trims all the time on Bindi’s nails, the quick might begin to recede. Hopefully then you could get them permanently shorter.

[MimzMum]

Brief update:
So we’re about done with the metronidazole, but there’s no consistent improvement in Fiver’s cecals. I’m disappointed, but at least he’s gotten a little better than he was. Probably going to get another round (oh he’s going to be T-H-R-I-L-L-E-D!) and my regular vet (who saw my two cats on Saturday) said we’d try a bit of TMS/TMP (?) as well…whatever that triple antibiotic is called, I can never remember the lettering in the name.
I had a bad dream about Fiver passing away last night, so I’m a little glum.
On another note, I think perhaps his bedding may be the problem with his feet after all, simply because I had a non-fluffy dishtowel on his ramp last night for him to climb over and he sat on it for most of the evening, even tried biting it a few times…I wonder if the fluffy mattresses are just making him too warm and that may be why his fur is coming off him so far? Heat/friction or the like? He seems to want a cool place to lie down at any rate. I’ll have to try something next that is padded, and yet doesn’t have a fluffy outer layer and see what happens.
BTW, Jerz, those stains you mentioned, they are simply what we cannot get out of his fur after he’s gotten poopy butt. Those will probably be with him for life unless we can get this dysbiosis nipped up.

He was tooling around enough today that he accidentally jumped on Jenna while she was lying belly up near my pillow. Poor thing, scared the heck out of her. I think Fiver was like: “Oh *bleep!* That plushie MOVED!” and he zoomed back into his pen. Neither was hurt, but definitely startled. Fiver’s nails are about ready for cutting, so that can’t have felt good on her bare tum. She was so good with him though, they sniffed each other quite a bit today and no aggression from either of them. I guess he’s so used to seeing her on the bed now, it’s no big deal for him. I still keep a close watch though, you never know.

Oh, and OT: both my cats are well, my older girl needed her anal glands expressed (hm, where have we seen that before?) and my 10 year old tom gets to have his teeth cleaned on the 28th…so we’re having a busy pet month. >.< I'm so stressed I can't see straight.

[Monkeybun]

Awww MM> Sit back, relax, play some pokemon. you need a break from stress

[jerseygirl]

Ditto that!

btw, I’m getting cute mental picture of Fiver and Jenna. : )

[MimzMum]

* is tapping foot waiting for the US release of Black & White *
Oh yes, don’t you know I wish I’d had a camera out, but of course, never at the right moment. >.< Fiver usually jumps up on my pillow to sniff around, but Jenna was in that spot and her stomach completely exposed, plus her head was under the cover, so she never saw it coming. Her eyes were as big as saucers by the time Fiver was back in his cuddly cup. The leap and the surprised look he made when he realized there was a warm body where the cool pillow was supposed to be was classic AFV material. Poor Jenna just curled into a ball and looked at me like, "What was THAT for?" Yup…bunny does the dirty deed and mum gets the blame!
Now Jenna knows how I feel when she comes and jumps up on my gut at a full run and knocks the wind out of me for a few beats. xD

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

Awwww so cute!!! He doesn’t look like he’s holding much grudge from the meds I’ll agree with the others, his hocks don’t look too bad at all!! Your obviously keeping a ver close eye so you’ll know quick if more fur is lost but they look very good!

Mimz if you sew even reasonaby well (Re: non fuzzy bedding like a towel)-you could take an old towel or two and sew them into a bed using a pillow insert or a foam peice or something!! I’ve done that before with towels or faux lambskin with soft inserts and they worked great -you can just plop them in the washer and drier like normal too!

[Author]

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