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Forum HOUSE RABBIT Q & A Bunnies Suddenly Fighting – HELP!

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    • Buttercup and Scull
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        So yesterday I took my bunnies to be neutered.  Found out after the first one was put under anasthesia that she’s a girl.  Vet did a visual on the second on and she’s a girl too.  Unfortunately the vet sliced into the first one and she ended up with two sutures.  The vet said he recommended NOT spaying two females (I asked questions about prevending disease and improving demeaner and he dismissed those as valid medical reasons to spay the bunnies).  So I went and picked them up.

        I brought them home and put them in their hutch.  The bunnies have been together since birth…sisters, I’m told… and have always gotten along great.  They use each other as pillows, snuggle, play, etc…They were fine last night and today in their hutch and then this afternoon when I let them out to free-range they FOUGHt and it was VICIOUS!  Fur was flying everywhere.  I grabbed one bunny, the one that had the sutures, and the sutures must’ve been chewed off or something because there was a dime sized HOLE in her abdomen and her intestine was poking out.

        I immediatelyl took her to the emergency vet and they put some adhesive and 2 staples in it.   (by the way this vet also dismissed spaying two females).  I brought her home and kept her in her own cage for awhile.  Eventually I put her in the hutch with the other bunny and everything was fine.  I let them out to play and everything was fine.  They went back into the cage and everything was fine then later I let them out again and VICIOUS fighting again.  The one that had the surgery is attacking the other one.  

        I tried spraying water but that didn’t help.  She’d even attack the other bunny through the hutch!  So now I have the injured bunny in the hutch and the other bunny in another cage beside the hutch.

        Do you think the injured bunny is just stressed and in pain and taking it out on the other bunny?  They were so sweet and loving to each other so this is heartbreaking (and quitea pain!).

        So my questions are:

        1.  Why neuter 2 female rabbits?

        2.  Wby are these bunnies suddenly fighting and how can I get them to be friends again?!

         

        Thanks for the support!!


      • FluffyBunny
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          Both females should be spayed. They’re not able to have babies with each other, but it’s really still necessary to spay both. Female bunnies have up to an 80% chance of getting uterine/ovarian cancer if they’re left unspayed. If your vet understands rabbits, I don’t see why he would be saying that there’s no reason to have both spayed.

          It sounds like the one who had the sutures is in pain. Was she given any kind of pain medicine at the vet, or taken home for you to give her?


        • jerseygirl
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            Ditto ^ Has she been given pain meds? So the vet anaesthetised, began incision and did not go ahead and spay her?
            Where is the incision? Abdomen for spay or was he beginning castration procedure?

            I’m truly sorry this has happened to you and the bunnies! I think you may have to keep them separated at least until the sutures have healed. Maybe the larger space has made the one attacking feel vulnerable and I can’t blame her. It’s actually not uncommon for bonded rabbits to have a falling out after vet visit. Sometimes the foreign smells from the clinic can create some turbulence.

            How old are the bunnies?
             

            2.  Wby are these bunnies suddenly fighting and how can I get them to be friends again?!

            If the girls are now pubescent then there may have been fighting anyway. Things change when the hormones arrive and females can be territorial. I do strongly suspect their fighting is due to the one having failed operation though.

            Taking the hormones out of the equation make for a better long term bond. It’s not impossible for them to be friends again, it will just take some time doing a bonding process.


          • LoveChaCha
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              It looks like you need to find another vet – one that specializes in exotic animals and wants to see the best for the two girls. You will want to get your rabbits spayed ASAP!! Seeing a possible false pregnancy is not nice to witness, .. plus if not spayed, the bunny will likely pass of reproductive cancer. Plus, litter habits become nice and you’ll enjoy your bunnies much better!

              Female rabbits will fight No matter if they are litter mates or have been together from the start.

              When you get them fixed, I would suggest waiting a month before bonding! BB has a great bonding section and there are veterans to help


            • Beka27
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                I feel awful that you got such incorrect information from your vet. Female rabbits ESPECIALLY must be spayed. Health reasons aside, if left intact, they are much more territorial and aggressive than male rabbits. It is difficult to bond two SPAYED females, unspayed can be next to impossible. You would never want to have two unspayed females together. Littermates are fine for the first few months, but once they hit puberty, it doesn’t matter if they are related.

                My thought on these types of situations is that if a vet doesn’t recommend spaying a female rabbit, he is either not educated on rabbits (or was but has not kept up-to-date on rabbit health, just like in human medicine, things are changing constantly). Or… he is not comfortable doing the procedure. In either case, I would suggest that you start looking for a new exotics vet who is experienced and confident working with, medicating, and operating on rabbits.

                In the meantime, they need to be kept separate and will have to be rebonded post spay.


              • Buttercup and Scull
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                  Thanks for the info and support. The girls are about 3 months old. It’s just heartbreaking that a few days ago they were best friends and snuggling and now the one is attacking the other. I wonder if she’s in pain, too. No, she was not given pain medicine. The incision is just above her girlie parts. The vet said that the staples pinch for a second and shouldn’t hurt. She didn’t make a peep while being stapled.

                  I live in rural North Carolina and the only vet that specializes in rabbits here is VERY expensive. Wants over $300 to spay EACH rabbit (+exam fee, + this fee, + that fee). I took them to a vet an hour away in South Carolina…a vet that spayed a friend’s rabbit four years ago. It stunned me that they said not to spay. I asked specifically if spaying reduces the chances of rabbits developing cancer or being aggressive/territorial and he said no. The vet I saw at the emergency hospital last night said the ‘new science’ leads her to believe he was right.

                  Clearly I’m going to have to take them to the only vet in town but I absolutely don’t have what will amount to about a grand to spay these rabbits right now. I’ve already spent a grand in the hutch, bunny proofing and all the paraphernalia/food/litter/chew sticks, etc…in the last month. I want to do what’s right for my girls but I can’t go broke doing it either…this is all so unexpected, shocking, confusing and heartbreaking. Thanks again for the words of wisdom.


                • jerseygirl
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                    I’m very interested what this “new science” is that the e-vet referred to.

                    If they are just 3 months then you have some time yet. Most vets won’t do a spay that young. Sometimes they will at 4 months but most prefer at least 6 months of age. For a male neuter, 3 months would have been correct.

                    There was a likelihood the pair would have had a falling out. regardless They are very definately becoming teen buns now.

                    There are low cost spay/neuter programs around and some do cover rabbits. So as you have a bit more time you might be able to find something like that to help ease the financial burden.


                  • jerseygirl
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                      These are some I’ve been able to find. I have no clue where this is in relation to you!

                      http://www.catawbahumane.org/spay_neuter.php

                      http://snipclinicnc.com/how-it-works


                    • Buttercup and Scull
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                        Wow, that’s really nice of you, thanks! It’s 1 1/2 hours away (I’m in Asheville). There’s one in Spartanburg, SC (1 hour away) that’s $65 but they only do one rabbit a day so I’d have to go twice which is a challenge. I’ll call the Catawba one on Monday…thanks so much…that was really nice of you to take the time to look that up for me


                      • Monkeybun
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                          You could always get one done one day, then next time you are able to, whether its a week or 2 or a month later, get the other done. Doesn’t have to be immediately after


                        • Beka27
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                            $300 for a spay is the average price. The cheapest in my area (as of about a year ago) was $280, so this is not outside the ballpark. But you also have to keep in mind, you get what you pay for. So if this exotics vet is truly experienced and educated, I would feel comfortable paying $300 for an invasive surgery. But I know when you times this by 2 bunnies, it’s a whole lot of money.

                            As Jersey said, most vets won’t spay females until 6 months, so you have time to see another vet, have exams for them both, get some money saved up, and schedule the surgeries for a future date.


                          • Buttercup and Scull
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                              True, but I’m a single mom that works full time and has two young kids so being efficient with my time is important (since I’d have to be there before 8am and then wait around all day til I can pick them up…which probably means using a vacation day) …I also have a company car and get charged 60 cents a personal mile so the trip alone will cost me over $120 so I’d rather only do it once!

                              As for waiting until they are 6 months, that makes me worried about having to keep them separate for so long! I’ll take the injured one to the expensive exotic vet on Monday to get checked out and get more advice and then probably do the spaying at the Humane Society where it’s only $45 ea.

                              Thanks again for all the advice.


                            • Buttercup and Scull
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                                This might be some good news…I don’t think Buttercup is in much pain…she’s racing around the living room and even doing some binkies and jumping on the furniture. I doubt she’d be moving like her good ‘ole self if she was in a lot of pain. I hope that’s the case, anyway. I just wish I could let Scull out at the same time. I don’t think she likes being banished to the carrier/cage while Buttercup gets the luxury hutch. Boy I wish I could go back in time about 3 days!


                              • jerseygirl
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                                  That is good to hear. I hope she continues to mend well. Well, a belated welcome to Binky Bunny!

                                  I’m sort of confused that the vet discovered the sex after anaesthesia and cutting. If he was doing a castration, wouldn’t the abscence of testicals been a clue? Some rabbits do have undescended testicals and require special surgery for that but I doubt he was performing that procedure on a 3 month old rabbit!  If thought male, it would just been a case of waiting another month to see if the testiclas decended.

                                  If you go to the exotics vet Monday, find out beforehand if you could bring in both and have them sexed again. They might not charge you for that since you’d already be there checking Buttercup.

                                   


                                • Buttercup and Scull
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                                    Thank you! I’m confused too! I can’t believe he didn’t check their sex before anesthesia and cutting…even then he said he’s only 95% sure they’re girls because they’re so immature. The pet store told me they were two 5 months old boys a month ago so I thought I was right on track with the timing but this vet said they were about 3 months old. He did say he cut to look for undescended testicles but when he didn’t see any he just stitched her up and called me to come and get them.

                                    Great suggestion about getting them both sexed again by the exotic vet on Monday. Clearly the first dude doesn’t know anything so I shouldn’t trust even the most basic info about their sex! Starting over

                                    Thanks so much


                                  • Beka27
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                                      Rabbits are expensive to keep and provide vet care for. Had this been a month earlier when you were first getting them, I would have recommended you just get one to start. But you have them already and are no doubt attached, so right off the bat, everything is going to be doubled. If you can spay for $45, that is an unheard of price, and definitely worth it as long as the vets doing the surgeries are experienced. Check to see that this price includes anesthesia and what the cost of pain meds are because they are necessary with invasive spays, and might not be included in that price.

                                      What sexes did you think they were initially, two boys? Did the vet sex them during a previous exam or were they sexed by a breeder or petstore?

                                       

                                      Edit:  I see you answered those questions in the next post.  Petstores are AWFUL at sexing anything.  Half the time they’re wrong… lol (and it’s only a 50/50 shot anyways!)


                                    • Buttercup and Scull
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                                        Thanks…I’ll see what’s included. probably end up using the expensive local guy who is supposed to be “the man” for rabbits. He uses lasers and has all the latest technology and his very highly regarded. I’ve already spent $300 on Buttercup from dealing with the debacle so if I’d gone to the good vet in the first place she’d be spayed…now I’m out of pocket more because I tried to save money! Argh!!


                                      • LoveChaCha
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                                          Before you take the bunnies in to this guy, I would suggest making a call and asking questions to the vet. I don’t want to scare you, but asking questions like
                                          “How many rabbits does the office see?” “How many spays/neuters are done?” “Has a rabbit been lost during a spay / neuter?”

                                          That is very important.

                                          I have not heard of using lasers during a surgery o_O Perhaps this is new?
                                          I hope the injured girl is alright. Rabbits tend to hide their pain. *hugs and vibes to bunny*
                                          I wish you luck and healing vibes to the girls.


                                        • KatnipCrzy
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                                            It is fine to use a laser for surgery- it is a good option as long as the vet is comfortable using it- and they should be if they have it and use it.


                                          • bunnytowne
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                                              Yes there is a vet I know who now uses laser.   She is an exotics rabbit specialist.  

                                              Vets and Dr’s are supposed to keep updated on stuff and go to a couple of seminars a year and put in a certain amount of hours in seminars.  They get to choose what subjects they are interested in so not all vets have chosen laser. 

                                              I have heard of humane societies doing rabbits for 40.00       Don’t know if they give pain meds or if that is extra


                                            • RabbitPam
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                                                I’m so sorry this has been happening. I would suggest taking Buttercup in to the experienced (ie. expensive) local exotics vet to be examined right away. You might want to ask if the procedure she has been subjected to so far was botched at all. It’s possible that the vet you took them to did a really bad job of it and the new vet can help her. If it was a serious problem where the vet was at fault, you may want to contest the bill. Otherwise, a good new vet will certainly make sure she heals well without infection, give you pain meds for her if still needed, and see to it that the staples are removed properly. If you like this new vet, then plan for the second spay for your other girl (once she’s been properly sexed!) in another 3 months. She will become hormonal and very moody, so you will want to keep them separated until Buttercup is completely healed, then follow the others’ advice and begin a real bonding of the two of them.

                                                You may not realize, but we could have gotten a frantic post from you saying “they were snuggling one minute, then had a big fight. What happened???” without any of the procedures being done to set them off. It was just going to happen once hormones kicked in. At least this way, before a lot of bonding work, you will definitely have Buttercup done and well again. She was in pain and uncomfortable and just acted out. I would be surprised if they don’t end up being bonded well, but it’s going to be a complicated few months as you work with them while arranging for the spay. We’re here for you!


                                              • Beka27
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                                                  For the lost-cost vet, is the only issue how far away it is? If you can manage the distance, I would recommend you consider going the low-cost route. Humane societies and low-cost programs do SO MANY surgeries, so with this experience, the success rate is typically very, very high. Many people have chosen to use these programs for spay/neuter and then they use their local vet for emergency situations and routine annual check-ups. The money you would save could then be put away as a small emergency fund for later use. Just another alternative ;o)

                                                  I’m not sure if pictures are working again, but I know I’d love to see your babies when you get a chance!


                                                • jerseygirl
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                                                    I just wanted to add that in the case of the low cost programs, the cheaper fee does not necessary reflect the quality of the vet. (i.e cheap= bleow par standards). This may be exotics experienced vet volunteering their skills and time. Regardless, it’s always wise to ask questions about the vet performing the operation.


                                                  • Buttercup and Scull
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                                                      Hi everyone, thanks for all of the helpful advice! Fortunately I have a positive update.

                                                      On Monday I took both Buttercup and Scull (in separate carriers) to the expensive vet for a checkup and general consultation and he said they’re in excellent health and agreed they do need to be spayed. He also said all of the advice you wonderful people gave me was bang on and I’ve been doing a good job in terms of handling their health, habitat and behavior regarding their fighting.

                                                      I continued to keep them separate but let them out at the same time in the evenings (Buttercup can outrun Scull and go upstairs…Scull can’t go up the stairs). Scull went from trying to attack Buttercup, to just running her off, to just sniffing her out. Then last night they actually re-bonded! They slept in the hutch together, grooming each other and using each other as pillows. They’ve been ‘back to normal’ all day today too – woo hoo, success!

                                                      I have to take Buttercup to have her staples removed tomorrow so I’m taking BOTH bunnies so that they can be exposed to the same smells, etc…and HOPEFULLY they won’t have to go through the same thing again. i will get them spayed in the next month, at a place where they can go at the same time.

                                                      Thanks everyone for your advice and support!!
                                                      Love, Karen, Buttercup and Scull


                                                    • Beka27
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                                                        That’s fantastic!!! I’m happy they are getting along again and that you had a positive experience with the rabbit-savvy vet!


                                                      • jennie20
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                                                          Need some advice please! We have 2 mini lops male and female who are both 8 months old. They were both spayed/neutured in Aug and after a brief period apart they have been great since, very loving. Tonight however, I catch them fighting, fur everywhere. They stopped for a bit and gave each other kisses them started it again. Had to separate them as they seemed to get very distressed and one has now lodged herself under the sofa. What the hell do i do?! So I separate them? Do I leave them to it? Help!


                                                        • BB & Tiny
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                                                            Yes, separate them before serious damage occurs.

                                                            This happened to us about three weeks into living together and I separated them, but continued dates, until it appeared they had resolved their issues. I still have no idea what set them off. I came home from work to fur everywhere, very distressing for all involved !


                                                          • BB & Tiny
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                                                              Oh my old thread !

                                                              You should perhaps begin your own

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                                                          Forum HOUSE RABBIT Q & A Bunnies Suddenly Fighting – HELP!