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Forum DIET & CARE Not eating cecotropes

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    • nugget
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        I have noticed recently that our rabbit, Oliver, has not been eating his cecotropes. I have found many of them in his cage  over the last couple weeks. I worry he is not getting the vitamins and nutrients he needs (from eating them). I’ve heard this could be a sign of over eating….but I really don’t think he is over fed. And have also heard they can become very ill if they do not eat them. I will call the vet and ask her should I continue to see this over the next couple days, but was wondering if anyone else had some insite to share.

        Thanks much!!


      • Michelle&Lolli
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          I think if they have a well balanced diet, they don’t always need to eat them. Mine don’t always eat theirs. I’ll see them here and there for a couple of days and then won’t see any for a while. So I would just keep an eye on him and I’m sure he’ll go back to eating them.


        • Monkeybun
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            What kind of diet is he on?


          • nugget
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              Timothy pellets….Timothy Hay….parsley and some alfalfa (he is only 9 weeks old)


            • Monkeybun
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                9 weeks old, i’d not give him greens yet. Wait til he is older for the parsley. Stick to pellets and hay for now


              • lashkay
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                  When you see cecotrophes, or cecals, lying around the rabbit’s environment, you’re seeing excessive cecotrophes – more than he can eat.  So he IS eating them, he’s just producing more than he can eat.  From what I understand, this could be because your bunny is feeding on unlimited timothy pellets.  He may be too young for timothy pellets. I fed my 9 week old rabbit an unlimited alfalfa based or standard rabbit pellet (Kaylor Sweet Harvest, a pure pellet feed). My vet advised me to switch to a timothy pellet - whe recommended Oxbow T  (Oxbow timothy pellets) when they’re 5 mos. old.  Hope this helps.  Oliver reminds me of a juvenile haired version of the Tin Man from The Wizard of Oz!  Adorable!

                   


                • lashkay
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                    If you can keep a 24 hour watch on your bunny, you would probably see him reach down and get his cecotrophes followed by chewing them and then going for the next, some time in the early morning hours, maybe before you wake up, although my Dustor eats his at night as well. If you are quite certain your bunny is not doing this at any time of the day, do mention it to your vet and check with him or her whether they think you should switch off of Timothy pellets until the bunny is several months older.


                  • Monkeybun
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                      Not sure about the pellets lashkay, Monkey has been on them since 8 weeks old, and has never had excessive cecals. She despised alfalfa pellets, so my vet said it was fine for her to stay on the timmy ones. In my experience, its the introduction of veggies to early that does it.


                    • lashkay
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                        Thanks, Monkeybun, I appreciate your sharing your perspective. It’s good to know, because if ever I was for some reason limited to feeding timmy pellets to a baby bun, I’d know it would be okay. I don’t know why she feels as she does about it, but my vet was recommended by the HouseRabbit society as rabbit-savvy so I’m just sharing what she recommended. Once in a while I see a “tiny cluster of grapes” – excessive cecals -in my rabbit’s pen but then as bunbuns experienced, I won’t see any for a while. The bottom line I think we agree, is, if you consider your vet rabbit-savvy, mention this conflicting info to them and do as they advise.


                      • jerseygirl
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                          How cute is Oliver!!!! I can’t remember if you posted pics once you got him? Anyway, I peeked at some under your profile..

                          Are you certain it is cecotrophes you’re finding? Not some mushy regular poop? Has Oliver had a vet check yet? Diet is normally the culprit for excess cecals so look at that. Some react to certain pellets, greens etc. However, if he’s got mushy poop from something else you’ll need to get his poop tested.


                          @lashkay
                          , I wonder if your vet recommended alfalfa pellets because you have a more furry breed rabbit? I think they use more protein to produce all that fuzz. The rabbit feeds are market as alfalfa for juniors/lactating Does and timothy for adults but the HRS doesn’t actually specify which type for juniors, it just says unlimited pellets. There’s no defined rule really. It depends on the rabbit, what you have available to you and your vets recommendation as you said.

                          @MB, you’re lucky she took to the tim pellets and hay so readily. Monkey was all grown up before she could thump I reckon.  Mine are on VERY limited alfalfa as it all that’s really available.


                        • Monkeybun
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                            Yes, I’m definitely lucky with my group. All of them are excellent hay eaters, even Smudge, who didn’t know what to do with it at first. Monkey has been a doll the entire time I have had her, litter trained, eating habits, everything has been great. Except the eye issues really She still can’t thump much with her little feet though


                          • lashkay
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                              Jerseygirl, I should clarify something, thanks for reminding me…when I say “alfalfa pellets” I’m referring to just standard rabbit pellets that contain a certain standard percentage, more or less, of alfalfa along with the other ingredients. I don’t mean pellets high in alfalfa, just the typical percentage found in Kaylor Sweet Harvest, Walmart bulk rabbit pellets, Purina, etc. I just today completed transitioning Dustor off his Kaylor Sweet Harvest with some alfalfa he’s been on since 10 weeks old when I got him, over to Oxbow Timothy pellets as he’ll be 6 months old on the 24th of this mo. And yes, it’s possible both Buddie’s and Dustor’s breeders and my vet recommended standard pellets containing some alfalfa the first 5 months because of the excess fur in double-maned lionheads, good point.

                              Monkeybun, I’m glad little Monkey is healthy and I hope her eye issues have cleared up. All your buns are cute but I’m partial to Monkey maybe because I tend to like little ones. I like Nethies, Lash was a sweet Nethie. Did I ever tell you how I fed her her cecotrophes…? lol


                            • Ali925
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                                Is he getting unlimited pellets?

                                Just from my own experience – With both of my bunnies I had to switch to timothy pellets at a young age because the alfalfa was too rich for them (lots of extral cecals)… For my smaller bunny Blu, even after switching to timothy he still had an extra cecal or two a day until I limited the pellets. I did introduce greens early on (vet’s guidelines) and I thought the greens were the problem since he was still young…

                                After some trial and error, I’ve found the culprit was too many pellets…even though he was never given unlimited pellets to start. I supplemented with greens. At first I was concerned it wasn’t enough for him as a growing bunny, but he seems healthy to me. He was never a big pellet eater in the beginning either, so I feel like it’s suitable for him.

                                How big is your bunny? Mine was on the smaller side (~2.5 lbs)… Every bunny has different tolerances for food, but I thought I’d share my experience since it’s not the typical diet for young buns..


                              • Beka27
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                                  Excess cecals are usually an issue with too rich a diet, not from feeding veggies. I believe a rabbit can be slowly introduced to basic veggies right away. In an ideal world, they would have been eating their mother’s veggies as young as 4-5 weeks old. Baby bunnies do not absolutely need alfalfa pellets. You can feed them or you can stick with timothy and just supplement with some alfalfa hay.

                                  In any case, if you haven’t already, it would be beneficial to get him into the vet and have a fecal test done. Just in case. At that point, you can talk with the vet regarding his diet and see what recommendations he/she has.


                                • nugget
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                                    thanks for all the very helpful info!
                                    I do feed Oliver timothy based pellets but also give him fresh alfalfa (and of course timothy hay) We fed our last bunny alfalfa based pellets and she began to develop points on her teeth. Although she was provided unlimited hay….why eat the hay when the alfalfa pellets are so yummy?
                                    I was also advised to feed Oliver greens by his vet….It went against what I had researched when we first became bunny owners, but upon trying to find that information again…I couldn’t. Oliver gets 3 oz. of pellets a day, and I have found he is a hefty hay eater!! He only minimal amounts of alfalfa and only a sprig of parsley at this point.
                                    We had an appointment with the vet before we even brought Oliver home. His fecal test showed he had coccidia….and he has just finished his meds to treat that.
                                    Oliver is a very young bunny and still weighs less than a pound… .85lbs actually. I have noticed him at times appearing to be eating his cecotropes. I will monitor him over the next few days and maybe adjust his diet a tad.


                                  • Beka27
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                                      Some meds can also cause runny stools too. I’m not sure about what meds he was on, but different ones may affect different bunnies in this way. It’s great your conscious of what he’s eating and what’s normal for him so far. I would keep at it and see how he does.


                                    • lashkay
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                                        I remember reading that coccidia can interfere with a baby bunny’s normal consumption of its mother’s cecotrophes when it’s still with her (and nursing?) such that the baby doesn’t get any of its mother’s cecotrophes and then can have difficulty consuming its own cecotrophes when it no longer has access to its mother’s. I’m going by memory of what I read and there may be inaccuracies in what I remember or the validity of the article. You might want to find out from your vet about it.


                                      • lashkay
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                                          I don’t mean to alarm you or worry you about the coccidia interference with cecotrophes in babies info, and I don’t even know if I have the facts straight as I am just going by memory of what I read, but from my point of view, it would be something worth running past your vet.  He or she might have something valuable they could say about that.  Healing vibes to Oliver and here’s to many many years of happiness with him.  He’s a real sweetie and I know and he knows you’re giving him the best of care!!


                                        • nugget
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                                            Thanks Kay!
                                            I will be running it past my vet. I am trying to get a good idea of how many I find in a day. I cleaned his cage out last night….and found one cluster in the litterbox this morning. I will see if there are more when I get home from work this afternoon. I have taken the alfalfa out of his diet and I think I am going to go get some alfalfa based pellets and mix them in with his current food, eventually making it 50/50. (Or maybe I should be a little heavier on the alfalfa pellets??????
                                            Anyway…I will be calling our vet this evening to see what she thinks.


                                          • lashkay
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                                              When I had a baby bun, I was encouraged to give him alfalfa hay as well as timothy, so I gave him about 50/50 alfalfa & timothy hay in unlimited amounts until he was several months old, then switched to all timothy, and occasionally oat hay, because it’s good for the longer haired lionhead breed (as well as for angoras, jersey woolies, etc.) You might want to see how he does on the 50/50 alfalfa pellets/current food keeping your vet informed also. If he doesn’t seem to like the alfalfa as Monkeybun’s bunny didn’t, you can just feed him all timmy pellets if your vet agrees with it.
                                              Glad you are keeping closely in touch with your vet and folllowing what she thinks. How long does Oliver need to be on the medication for the coccidia? (((More healing vibes to Oliver to get over it quickly.)))


                                            • Rippy
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                                                I remember I had a similar situation with Pika when she was that age (and she was never on unlimited pellets but a large amount non the less). We gave her antibiotics but that did not help because there was nothing wrong with her but with the way I fed her.

                                                So my guess is that it has 90% to do with how much you are feeding him. There is also a chance that he needs to adjust to new feeding times as he might be producing cecotropes just as he gets food and it is more tasty. But what did remove the problem with Pika is that I kept reducing the pellets till the problem went away. Some rabbits are just love there hay and eat so much of it that even when they are still small they do not need unlimited pellets to be healthy and develop.

                                                So my recommendation is that you still consult your vet but remove the greens for now and keep reducing the pellets till he manages to eat all of his cecotropes. And if he does eat a lot of hay when he grows older you might have to keep an eye on his diet so you don’t have a fat bunny .


                                              • lashkay
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                                                  Rippy’s recommendation sounds right. I just want to add this one paragraph I found under: Precious Pet Rabbits. You can take it with a grain of salt, Note that in this article, it is recommended that the alfalfa hay not be given. Again, something to bring to the attention of your vet. Sorry for this conflicting info but thought it was worth a mention. Your vet I’m sure will know how to proceed.:

                                                  Excessive Cecal Matter
                                                  Your rabbit’s normal solid waste is small round droppings that have little odor. If you should start to see soft, smelly clusters like little grapes, you are seeing excessive cecal matter. Normally, your rabbit produces a small amount of this matter and consumes it, directly from the anus and thankfully usually in the wee hours of the morning. The rabbit’s body has manufactured nutrients that the rabbit consumes to stay healthy.

                                                  If your rabbit’s diet gets out of balance – or if your rabbit becomes stressed – he or she will produce more than can be consumed. Your rabbit is not sick, but you have been given a strong warning that your rabbit will become sick if something doesn’t change.

                                                  Remove your rabbit’s pellets and other feed. Replace it with straw or hay (not alfalfa). Once the excessive cecal matter is gone, add back pellets slowing, making sure that you are not providing more than he or she needs. If you were feeding other fruits and vegetables, add back one at a time, watching for excessive cecal matter. If you see it, back off again. You’ve exceeded your rabbit’s limit.

                                                  A healthy rabbit can stay on hay and water for two weeks, if needed.


                                                • nugget
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                                                    Very helpful, thank you.

                                                    Olivers last day of the meds was 5 days ago. I did find little bits of cecotropes in the cage yesterday….so it appears they either were broken up and carried around the cage or he ate parts????


                                                  • nugget
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                                                      Oliver has an appointment with the vet at noon today, by the way…..


                                                    • Ali925
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                                                        I know I posted already about Blu having similar issues…but I also wanted to add that there are times (even now) that Blu seems to forget to eat them? This only happens every once in a while, He’ll get up from wherever he was napping and I’ll see cecals left behind. I tap the floor and he immediately goes and eats them up. Other times in the past he wouldn’t…and of course if they were sitting there all smooshed he wouldn’t bother..and that was back when he was overproducing. Now he is much better just from reducing his pellets. It’s such a small difference in pellets that made him better…very odd…it was only maybe a quarter tablespoon less and he’s so much better… Such peculiar animals sometimes…they keep us on our toes. Healing vibes to your little one as well…the young ones can be so sensitive to everything too..


                                                      • lashkay
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                                                          Ali, that’s so great that all you need do is tap the floor and Blu will go and eat them. One of the more unusual rabbit tricks. (: It’s good to know the pellets just need to be cut back a little in order to eliminate the excessive cecotropes.

                                                          Nugget, how is Oliver? How does your vet feel he’s coming along? Was she able to give you some good advisory and sort out some good recommendations from the ones posted? I’ve been praying that Oliver will get well soon. More healing vibes…


                                                        • nugget
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                                                            I swear I’ve tried to post this 3 times…..lets see if this works today.

                                                            The vet had agreed that it was likely diet related and suggested eliminating the oats from his diet. I think I neglected to mention that the breeder had mixed a small amount of oats in with her pellets. So, having the oats in the transition food, I had asked if we could continue to do that….and we had.
                                                            Oliver has continued to gain weight at a healthy rate…a little on the high average side. He went from .85 pounds to 1.08 pounds at his visit.
                                                            I haven’t noticed the excess clusters as regularly as I had been. I might notice a portion of one every few days. I do not like the fact that he would rather eat hay all day and leave his pellets be. I have to remove the hay when I offer him pellets, otherwise he turns his nose up to them.


                                                          • Sarita
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                                                              Oh yeah, oats – those are carbohydrates and that definitely could cause excess cecals. I think eating hay all day is a good thing – that is the number one thing rabbits should be eating.


                                                            • nugget
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                                                                Maybe I should take that back…..Last night I pulled 3 cecals and some little bits out of his cage. He has been on strickly hay and pellets this last week. Someone had suggested just offering hay and water and starting with a minimal amount of pellets and gradually increasing them. I think I will try that.


                                                              • farida
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                                                                  hi all…my bunny Sinbad isnt eating his cecal as well….and he has been sneezing too…the doc has given a 5 day antibiotic but he still continues. to sneeze. I recently got him neutered and the surgery went well…can sumone advice me what can I do and if he will be okay?? thanks..


                                                                • Sarita
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                                                                    Hi farida – we ask that members do not pull up old threads and reply – this thread is 4 years old – you need to start your own thread.

                                                                    In answer though to your question, not eating all their cecotropes is not a concern. I would though have the vet do a culture and sensitivity test for the sneezing.

                                                                    I am going to lock this thread and ask that you start a new thread.

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                                                                Forum DIET & CARE Not eating cecotropes