UTI Symptoms

[MissKris&Koji]

So, Koji was under the bed today just hanging out. He does that a lot. Curiously, ran over to me where I was sitting in my chair at the desk doing homework. Sat next to the wall under the desk, next to my subwoofer, looking up at me, just hanging out. I reached down and gave him a quick pet on his nose, and tried to lure him out from the wall a bit closer to me so I could give him pets while continuing to read. He didn’t follow my hand, and stayed sitting on the wall. About 10 seconds later I saw him lift his tail.

I immediately scooped him up, put him in his cage, and shut the door. No accident.

But this got me thinking, along with a small pee spot I found on my floor in the corner by his cage. Perhaps the bed pee problems were not territorial marking, nor the “soft surface” factor. Obviously my hardwood is not soft, and yet we seem to be having problems there now.

I am continuing with the limiting time out and keeping an eye on him, and then pen will be here soon so I can have him in a small contained space for his play time. But I’m wondering if I should ask the vet to do urinalysis? I looked up symptoms and I know litter habits changing can be a symptom, but I haven’t noticed anything else really suspicious.

Has anyone heard of subtle UTI case with just litter box habit changes? Or is it generally accompanied by straining, etc? He is going back to the vets in 2 weeks for a third visit just to swab for mites and make sure the 2nd shot of ivermectin cleared his ears. I think I may call the vet this week to see how they like to collect the urine, and what doing a test will run me.

Obviously I don’t want him to have more health problems, but I wouldn’t be too upset if this was the problem – at least antibiotics are an easier solution for loss of litter habits than simple… poor behavior.

[Sarita]

Well, reading your other post, I wouldn’t rule out a UTI especially if he was once very good at using the litter box and now he’s not.

UTI’s can be many things though like bladder stones or sludge or kidney stones. Trying to get a urinalysis done is a wise thing – if the urine is cloudy or sludgy they would be able to see that. If it’s sludgy they may want to do x-rays. So it may or may not be such an easy problem….

[MissKris&Koji]

I have observed the urine – especially since he has peed in the plastic pan in the corner of his cage he’s never peed in, and on the floor, I did observe for color and sludge. I have not seen any. There was a small pee spot once which I didn’t even notice except that there was a 1.5cm wide flaky white spot on the plastic pan of the crate, which I had to assume was a small spot of dried pee. So that may suggest dribbles.

I have decided to do the urinalysis. Unfortunately, the front desk girls at my vet… well, they have never been particularly helpful when I need something. She did tell me the urinalysis itself is $34. No problem. She suggested that I try to collect at home to keep the cost down, though. Also sounds like to collect there they do catheters, rather than needle extraction, which I read requires anesthesia. She mentioned catheters, anyways, but then again – as I mentioned, she didn’t seem to know much. She estimated another 20-30 for them to get the sample there, but I’m not trusting of an estimate, nor do I want him anesthetized or a catheter used. I’d much rather the needle through the belly method, and I don’t see why they wouldn’t be able to do that. Should I be pushy and call back tomorrow and insist that someone ask the vet? I did call close to closing time, I think, so I have some forgiveness but I would like more information and felt that she was very unhelpful and a bit rude.

She also did not know how long the sample would keep for. It seems that Koji only pees maybe 2 times per day, so this home collection is sounding a bit tricky to manage.

Does anyone have advice for how to try to collect at home? I read online that you can juse use an empty clean litter pan with no litter and do it that way, but that poops in the box may contaminate. With a UTI I would be concerned as it is bacteria that they test for, and obviously poops can have some bacteria. Ugh – I’d rather not stress him with a needle and have to pay more, but I want to results to be accurate and not messed up by contamination or a sample going bad because I got it the day before. The website I read said up to 8 hours in the fridge – we have a 10.30 AM appointment and I’m not sure I can get a sample within 8 hours.

Really wishing I had a litter box screen to keep the poops out of the pee. :/

[Sarita]

Well, usually if my vet cannot collect any urine, he/she may go ahead and give me medication as a precaution. Of course the vet will only do that if they can do a physical exam.

I have never collected urine because I just drop my rabbit off and hope they can get samples and have the vet do a physical exam.

[Sarita]

Also sometimes the vet can express the bladder to get some urine out.

[Andi]

You know those styrofoam ‘beans’ used for packing? I’ve heard of people putting that in litter boxes to collect urine. They clean the box put the foam in and then watch to see when the animals has urinated. The foam won’t hold the urine, it just goes straight down into the box, and then u can remove the foam and collect the urine.
I’ve not tried it myself.

I am actually looking to take one of my bunnies in to get a urinalysis done, she’s healthy, eating, running around, but she seems to pretend pee.

[MissKris&Koji]

Yes, he is getting an exam anyways. I bumped the date back a few days – the place is an hour away so I don’t want to make 2 trips but if there is infection I didn’t want to wait another week and a half until the previously scheduled exam appointment.

I guess I will call back and hope for a different receptionist to give me exact details of how they may try to get a sample, and what they will charge. My previous vet front desks have always been so good about asking the vet any questions I had and getting back to me within a day – this place is kind of culture shock for me. I guess if push comes to shove I certainly know how to be demanding enough to get it done, the girls just seemed certain I should try to do it myself because other people have opted to do it that way before. Unless someone has done this and can reassure me of how to approach it, I may not bother.

The beans is an interesting thought. Perhaps substantial enough to keep poops at the top but let the urine down. Hmm.

[Sarita]

The beans are interesting…I just wonder if he would actually use the box with the beans in them.

[MissKris&Koji]

I’m not sure, I’m not sure where to buy them either.

Another thought: is there any particular foods I should limit this week in case he is having problems? I have been feeding mostly carrot greens and celery lately as his vegetables, as we’ve been harvesting boatloads of carrots from the garden and had to do something with the tops. He was getting more parsley and romaine before. I don’t recall having read that carrot greens or celery are high calcium and urinary trouble foods, but I just wanted to check to be sure I’m not contributing to any possible issues until we get this checked.

[Sarita]

No, what you are serving is fine. Don’t change his diet unless the vet recommends it.

[jerseygirl]

You might be able to pick times when he’s more likely to toilet. I’ve noticed mine do later in the evenings after greens. Some have suggested using an empty carrier to collect a sample. Putting the rabbit in and waiting until the business is done.

I did want to mention that since you’re doing some toilet training with Koji do take care about the sort of attention you give him. From my experience (ongoing) Jersey will pee for attention good or bad.

[MissKris&Koji]

Well, we’re having progress on the bed and the pen isn’t even here yet. He seemed to quickly learn that I don’t want him up there, and mostly doesn’t try. BF did say that when I left the room while he was out this weekend, bun would try to get up there some. But he’s obviously learned quick, and at least the hardwood and the cage pan are much easier to clean than a mattress. I have been trying to be very careful about it, though, if I see him tail lift I just put him right in his cage next to the litter box, and shut him in. I don’t say anything, no petting, just a swift put him away.

The good news is, if it is UTI he must not be feeling TOO bad. We saw our first real binky tonight. He’s been doing a sprint across the rugs in the room the last couple days, but added in some serious series of binkies. We’d seen some very low small ones before, but not with running like that, or so high. He also flopped when I reached out and started to pet his nose. Obviously feeling pretty good.

We’ll see. Hopefully between litter training and the vet we can get this sorted soon. Thank you all for the input. I may try the carrier, actually, because mine has a sort of “moat” around the rim of it, so pee should settle into that and hopefully poops not roll into it. Make the process a bit more sanitary. If he just won’t go they’ll have to do whatever it is they do to get a sample, or else just give me the meds and we’ll see if it helps.

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