I decided to take last night off with the girls. I want to give poor Dexter a break from the humping to make sure she is not too stressed. She really has been fine with it but mom's heart strings are being tugged and I want to make sure she is ok with it all.

We should be back on tonight.

Important Question:
Should I use the spray bottle when I see Riley gearing up to hump Dexter OR should I just let it happen for a while? My fear is that eventually Dexter will snap and attack Riley which I feel could be a real setback in the progress. I need some expert opinions here! Pretty please? Help.

Thanks!

Jackie

Bonding Session #9:
Last night my husband and I decided to do another session outside in the xpen which I feel is the most neutral place we have going for us right now.
There does appear to be a level of tension in the air coming from Riley (the humper) as both buns get more used to these bonding sessions. Up until recently they were both pretty nervous which helped everybody stay calm and friendly.

The tension is really only coming from Riley as she did a tiny thump and growl right at the beginning of this session. Dexter happily hopped right over to her though and groomed her while Riley's head was bowed down. Again this session there was a lot of Riley demanding to be groomed and Dexter happily obliging.

Greg (my husband) and I feel bad for Dex though because she is always putting her head down and pushing it under Riley's face asking to be groomed back but Riley just wont do it

Everything is pretty cool with them together, hopping around, exploring except that whenever Dexter's back side ends up anywhere near Riley's face, Riley quickly gets ready to hump. I did not yet buy a 'humping double' but plan to! Dexter is really over submitting to the humping and now is running away quickly when Riley tries. This makes me nervous because I don't want Dex to say "I've had enough!" and start a fight. So far though, no problem.

Also, for those of you paying attention, you should know that in general Dexter is MUCH smarter than Riley. Dexter knows her name, she is inquisitive and appropriately cautious while Riley is much more impulsive. Both of my girls are VERY bonded to me and full of love and kisses in general.

So.. Here is where I am at and what I am thinking:
I think we have had 9 fantastic bonding sessions. Not a SINGLE fight!! Right now I feel like these short (hour or so) sessions are more of maintenance right now as we appear to be in a pretty steady situation.

After reading back through the 'Boogercj' bonding story I feel like we need to set up to do some marathon sessions - maybe 4 or 5 hours in a row. I think I will try to do this in the outside pen as it is nice for me to sit outside and so different for the buns.

What do you guys think?

You all rock!
-Jackie
 

I'm back!!  So sorry for my lack of posts but I had gone away for a few days and fell out of our bonding session routine! They have still been staying in pens right next to each other but our sessions had stopped for a few days.

Two days ago I got back on track!

Bonding Session #10:
Let me get right to it. We set up in our neutral space in the kitchen. The girls were the same as they have been, curious, hoppy, not fighting BUT I am realizing that the evolution of Riley's need to hump Dexter is really a problem.

Once Riley gets it in her head that she want to hump Dexter she gets crazy, possessed. It's all she wants to do. Her heart starts pounding, her eyes get focused and she is on a mission! Dexter is tolerating it, not running away, just submitting but I know that wont be too long lived so I am very careful to work with Dexter to keep her feeling calm and safe will crazy eyes does her thing!

Anyway this is what happens. Riley mounts Dexter from behind, grips Dexter's fur and humps like crazy. Dexter stays flat on the ground while I pet her. I count to about 30 seconds, trying to let Riley get bored. Riley will eventually stop the humping, but she wont move or let go of her grip on Dexter. This happens every time and eventually I just peel Riley off. She immediately will do everything she can to get back into position. Like I said, once she is on a tear, it is really hard to shift her focus.

One of the times I peeled her off I held her tightly and close to calm her down and did something I have never really done to any of buns - I leaned her back to hypnotize her! I've done it before but it's not really my thing and I have never done it to her. Anyway, she completely spaced out on her back in my arms and I kept here like that for about 30 seconds hoping to calm her and shift her focus.

When I put her back down she groomed herself like crazy and actually sort of ignored Dexter which I saw as a huge positive!

Then, to quickly end things on a good note, I crumpled their yogurt treat back and they both raced over, got their treats and that was the end of the session.

Questions/Comments:

1) I did not have a 'hump double' at the time of this session but I have since bought a stuffed animal that is black and white like Dexter and about the same size. I have been grooming Dexter and spreading all of her hair all over the stuffed animal and have had the stuffed animal shadow all of Dexter's favorite places for the last few days to pick up her scent. Riley has not yet been introduced to 'Humpy' (the stuffed animal) I do intend to use Humpy in our next session

2) The hypnotizing - is this safe? Does this cause extra stress to the rabbit when they wake up? It appeared to have worked well and I would like to use the technique again if needed but don't want to do anything that would put my girl in physical or emotional jeopardy.

3) Humping - please please. Does anybody know of any humping stories that have been resolved? This seems to be the only thing that stands in the way of their friendship and I feel a bit disheartened that Riley does not ever seem to get tired of it. We can't seem to get 'over the hump' so to speak Please - any guidance aside from the 'hump double' would be hugely appreciated.

Tonight I plan to do a 2 hour session. Any feedback before then would be great!

-Jackie

The humping isn't necessarily a bad thing. My Max humps Meadow everyday, sometimes several times a day and they've been bonded for well over 2 years. What's important is how each rabbit deals with it. If Dexter is allowing it, will Riley eventually stop if you don't intervene?

Bonding Sessions 11 & 12:

Hi everyone! It has been a while since I have posted but work has been busy!

Anyway, quick update:
We have done 2 dates since my last post. Both have been full of excessive humping! Riley just will not stop on Dexter. Dexter is continuing to be a team player and only scoots away when she has had enough. There is still tension in the air however BUT there is definitely real progress here when I look at the big (slow moving) picture.

We did use a 'hump double' which has been a bit of a relief for Dex although Riley figures it out eventually and wants the real thing!

Here is a video of one of our sessions to get a better sense of the dynamic between the two of them - the humping, the forced snuggling and the grooming.

PLEASE let me know if anybody has any epiphanies when you watch this! Let me know what you think.

I am still waiting for a good day to do a marathon session as I feel it is very important to get us to the next level. Right now I feel like we are in a maintenance pattern, but not making the leaps of progress I would like.

Until next time!

-Jackie (Riley and Dexter)

I'm wondering about you introducing an escape hidey box for Dex but a bit wary as this it the sort of thing that caused issues in the past. It can be a good way for Dex to let Riley know "I prefer you didn't do this". Yet this could have been behind the fighting or chasing out of the box you mentioned would happen before you started bonding again.

She does need some sort of diversion from the behaviour. If you can encourage the snuggles and possibly her grooming Dex then she might learn some other forms of interaction that are more appropriate and peacable. We had a discussion in one of the other forums recently about humping and dominance. It's not always dominance that is behind it. What ever it is with Riley, I believe having the stunt double and also diverting her to other activities could be beneficial. I don't know really... be interested in others input also.
 

It's tricky. Is it that Riley is a tough cookie to crumble or is there something else behind it all? I'm reminded a little of Binky Bunny's Jack when she was bonding him to Vivian. Jack was always a tad 'humpy' but BB reported he became obsessively so during that pairing. It turned out he had a health issue that needed attention. After he'd recovered she was able to bond them. He's still 'humpy' and dominant but it toned down. I know it may seem like comparing apples with oranges with Riley being a female. Just thought I'd mention it.

How has Riley been toward the stunt double? Does she ignore it if theres a chance to get to Dexter instead? You've mentioned both girls being very bonded to you. I'm wondering if this could be about you. How present are you in the bonding sessions? Are you always right in there with them? If so, is there a way you can discourage Riley from mounting from a distance? In a less hands on way? Or do you physically have to remove her?

Edit to add: My saying "this could be about you" I'm meaning jealousy over you.

One more thing...lol

Have you done much work with them completely out of your home in an unfamiliar place? Petzy mentioned this earlier in your bonding thread. It might give you a real clue to observe them in a sessions out of the home to see what sort of role Territoriality is playing in this.