mrmac  San Diego, CA
 Posts: 2167


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| 06/28/2010 04:13 PM |
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Today is not a good day...This morning I woke up to find Dennis sitting on the couch eating hay, covered in tufts! I went over to the pen and Delilah is sitting in his side of the pen! I have no idea how she got in, she had to have jumped the 30 inch x-pen! They have been housed next to each other with a sheet covering the shared barrier so they cannot see each other but get used to the smells for bonding. I was soooo mad at Delilah! Their earlier meetings were not terrible, but weren't great either and they had some nipping and tiffs before. Well they got into a fight and Dennis now has two big chunks of skin missing. I think he was getting so beat up that he had to escape by jumping the 30 inch fence! They are just surface wounds, like the fur got ripped off and the skin just came with it , but they are a decent size. I cleaned them with some diluted peroxide and put neosporin on them, is there anything else I can do?! Poor little guy, I feel so awful! I called the vet to see what they said and they told me to use the peroxide and neosporin, clean it a couple times a day, and really watch them. Dennis still ate his veggies and hay and is pottying normally. The boo boo's are tender though, he doesn't like me messing with them, but is isn't acting uncomfortable. My other problem now is that I tried to put Dennis back into his side of the pen adn he clawed and jumped at me to have me pick him up and hold him. He is now mortified of being in his pen because he thinks she is still in there and will attack him. I set him back down and he jumped over the pen side again to get away. it is so sad...I don't know how I did not hear it happen, I was asleep. I just feel like SUCH a bad bunny mom! I was so upset this morning. I just feel like I let Dennis get hurt, if I had just gotten up this morning, like I thought about doing, instead of going back to bed it would have never happened! Now what?! I don't trust leaving him next to Delilah, it was very weird that she went into HIS pen anyway (on a side note, this may have worked out some of the dominance issues they were having during sessions...it didn't happen in a good way, but a thought maybe...)...Trying not to cry about it all... |
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Monkeybun  Hillsboro, Oregon
 Posts: 8883


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| 06/28/2010 04:19 PM |
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Oh no! Poor little man  Bad Delilah! Maybe you should move his pen and totally rearrange it, to make him more comfortable. Healing vibes for Dennis! |
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mrmac  San Diego, CA
 Posts: 2167


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| 06/28/2010 04:22 PM |
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I yelled at Delilah when I saw her in the pen. She knew instantly that she did something wrong and put her head down. She is just so nasty sometimes...He has been in the bredroom the rest of the day today. He was actually living in the bedroom and we moved him next to their pen. I think he will have to go back into the bedroom, he is just too nervous to be near the trio's pen. |
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jerseygirl  Australia Posts: 11348


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| 06/28/2010 06:26 PM |
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I think he will have to go back into the bedroom, he is just too nervous to be near the trio's pen.
That's a good idea. Keep them well separated for a week or so. It'll give him a chance to heal up nice also.
Did Delilah get any injuries also?
This morning I woke up to find Dennis sitting on the couch eating hay, covered in tufts!
For what it's worth, it sounds like Dennis is coping with it. Not a nice thing to discover for you. But it appears he's getting on. Don't blame yourself. When rabbits have an intention they just find a way I'm sure! |
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bunnytowne  florida
 Posts: 6780


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| 06/28/2010 06:46 PM |
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Oh poor little bunny. They can be terrors sometimes. |
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Cotton Boo McChew
Princess Ruby Ravishing |
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mrmac  San Diego, CA
 Posts: 2167


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| 06/28/2010 07:33 PM |
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Delilah's fur is so thick that she didn't get hurt at all though I know Dennis fought her back. Rex hair is just not good for bunny fights! Dennis is dealing, I am sure the boo boo's hurt a little. He is still eating, drinking, and pottying. He is just such a good bunny, it sucks he had to get hurt. |
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MimzMum  Interior Alaska
 Posts: 7127


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| 06/28/2010 07:49 PM |
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Poor Dennis! ((((((((((((((((((snuggles)))))))))))))))) How scary for both of you! Quick healing vibes to him! ((((((((((((((Dennis)))))))))))))))))) |
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Mimzy, Pip & Fiver...yup...my day is all about them. :)
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Petzy 
Forum Leader Northern AB Canada
 Posts: 5938


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| 06/29/2010 11:13 AM |
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This was an accident. They need time off from each other now. Dennis will calm down and you can then start fresh with a new game plan. Your female rabbit Delilah is the resident queen of your warren (also known as your apartment). She will not let up in her surroundings. She must be taken outside of her turf for bonding. Take a whole month off from trying anything with Delilah and Dennis. Bond Davey with Dennis instead because Delilah is in love with Davey. Concurrently, deepen the bond between Dexter and Delilah. Cement thise two pairs respectively but allow visits, daily, between Davey (with Dennis' scent on him) and Dexter/Delilah. If you don't move residences in the near future, start up with Delilah and Dennis in car rides after the moth is up, and wet-feet sessions in the bathtub. Te beginning of any bond can be extremely negative but it can still work out with patience and sessions in the right place! |
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"what happened?
did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?" |
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mrmac  San Diego, CA
 Posts: 2167


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| 06/29/2010 12:19 PM |
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Yes it will just be a matter of time now. Dennis needs to heal and hubby needs time to cool off over the whole thing! He was so mad (at the bunnies) that this happened! Delilah is the queen *shutter* but she needs to get off her high horse at least a little bit!  |
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Petzy 
Forum Leader Northern AB Canada
 Posts: 5938


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| 06/29/2010 04:28 PM |
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Mac, I reread what you wrote and I see a positive to this. Delilah did not send Dennis to the vet and what is most important: Dennis got ouf the pen, HIS place, to get away. It means he was backing down. You will definitely need an NIC bonding cube. In it you can take them for sessions anywhere: the car, the petstore possibly for a cart ride (if there are no dogs in the store), the bathtub with simulated 'rain' from your shower... your laundromat... yes, I think there is a positive in finding Dennis on your couch rather than slaughtered in his pen! but work on the Dennis/Dexter/Davey-trio bond and the Dennis/Davey cement (living together). I also hope you are feeling better. |
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"what happened?
did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?" |
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mrmac  San Diego, CA
 Posts: 2167


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| 06/29/2010 04:36 PM |
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Yes I am feeling better. I do see it too as a positive thing that Dennis jumped out. He is a little scrapper and will stand up for himself, which I think he did, but it got too intense for him. He does not like to fight, he will run away to avoid confrontation. He showed this in a bathroom session earlier. Getting Davey over on Dennis will be important. Davey right now will let Delilah know, with a nip, when she is behaving unacceptably towards Dexter or in general. He is the only one that can keep her under control! Davey where were you in all of this!  |
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Petzy 
Forum Leader Northern AB Canada
 Posts: 5938


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| 06/29/2010 05:22 PM |
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Yes, what was Davey doing when this went down? I'm guessing he was in a sleep wobble! LOL |
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"what happened?
did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?" |
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Petzy 
Forum Leader Northern AB Canada
 Posts: 5938


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| 06/29/2010 05:23 PM |
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oh, also it reminds me of my all-male quartet: Roger would not tolerate Valmore's aggressive advances on Clifford and this was what made their bond possible! |
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"what happened?
did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?" |
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Petzy 
Forum Leader Northern AB Canada
 Posts: 5938


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| 06/29/2010 05:26 PM |
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may I move your thread here into the bonding section? |
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"what happened?
did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?" |
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mrmac  San Diego, CA
 Posts: 2167


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| 06/29/2010 06:56 PM |
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Yes I was just going to ask if someone could move it there! I don't know what Davey was doing! Had he been there he would have jumped in. I think once she got over there she got into a panic too because she was stuck adn couldn't get back. |
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mrmac  San Diego, CA
 Posts: 2167


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| 06/29/2010 07:42 PM |
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Petzy, could you change the title of this to something a little better sounding that "Wounds"! It is sounding a little dramatic now!  |
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Petzy 
Forum Leader Northern AB Canada
 Posts: 5938


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| 06/29/2010 08:08 PM |
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you can do it, mac: go into edit in your very first post and it should allow you to change it. |
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"what happened?
did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?" |
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Petzy 
Forum Leader Northern AB Canada
 Posts: 5938


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| 06/29/2010 08:29 PM |
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how about 'Quartet with Nasty Female' |
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"what happened?
did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?" |
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mrmac  San Diego, CA
 Posts: 2167


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| 06/29/2010 09:03 PM |
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Here is a little info about the small sessions we have had so far: (all sessions have been on the bathroom floor, blocked into a smaller area)
First Meeting of Dexter and Dennis:
Dexter likes him, no aggression. Both thumped at first, Dexter groomed Dennis, Dennis flopped. Dex made one little nip at Dennis which set Dennis off into a little nipping thing. Turned the blow dryer on, stopped them in their tracks. When they first approach each other is when Dexter gets nervous and will thump or give him a little nip. They have had a couple other small sessions that have all been ok, Dexter grooms him, Dennis bit raisins off Dexter's head. Only one sessions hasn't worked out with them, and Dexter was in a weird mood that day and was not acting himself so we ended it on a good note. They both sit next to eachother for mutual pets, and will both take treats.
Davey and Dennis:
Davey likes him. No aggression at all, Davey even gave him a couple licks which is big for Davey! It took him weeks to groom Dexter, even just one little lick, and we had to use food on his face to get him to start. I think it was very positive. They sat next to each other for mutual pets. Davey's first meeting with him he was too nervous to eat a treat, but after that he would eat them.
Delilah and Dennis:
Read the first post. She is interested in him and would go visit him in the bedroom (this was before the fight). They had a couple little tiffs through the pen bars, but nothing like she was when we were bonding with Dexter. She seemed like she was much better with him than she was with Dexter, but I guess not! Hopefully taking some time off from Delilah and Dennis bonding will help, although they probably have worked out most of their bonding issues, albeit not in the most ideal way.
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Petzy 
Forum Leader Northern AB Canada
 Posts: 5938


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| 07/01/2010 07:11 PM |
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well, out of three buns looks like two are going to bond to Dennis with the proper sessions. So that's an upside! I would not let up at all, but make the Davey/Dennis bond happen now. what space ar you using? |
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"what happened?
did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?" |
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mrmac  San Diego, CA
 Posts: 2167


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| 07/01/2010 07:34 PM |
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We are using the bathroom/bath tub. |
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Petzy 
Forum Leader Northern AB Canada
 Posts: 5938


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| 07/02/2010 05:29 PM |
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Do you have a bonding cube or similar? A thing that you can carry and take on trips? I'm asking because you will want some sessions outside the bathroom at some point (not now where Dennis is healing), and I would recommend to play it very safe so Dennis will not experience any territorially motivated dominances again from either Davey or Dexter even. I would take them shopping with you but you need more than a box for that, a cube or a top-loading carrier. Another thing that came into my mind, Mac, is your HRS chapter. Let's say you get your three boys bonded, and want to look at bonding with Delilah again. I would most derfinitely take Dennis and Delilah on a trip to the HRS store where they wouldn't mind. It would be so neutral. I have a good feeling about this!  |
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"what happened?
did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?" |
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Petzy 
Forum Leader Northern AB Canada
 Posts: 5938


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| 07/02/2010 05:38 PM |
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I should add, I don't mean for the HRS to bond them for you, I just mean for you to lug them around while you shop there anyways. |
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"what happened?
did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?" |
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mrmac  San Diego, CA
 Posts: 2167


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| 07/02/2010 08:12 PM |
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Yes he is very sensitive to bunnies approaching him now, he gets very scared and leaps over. His boldness has left him around other rabbits. I am going to try and get a pack of the grids or fashion something similar. Dex and Dennis have gone on one car ride together around the complex. Dennis tries to leap out of the box so we have to keep the top shut, so the cube would defintely be better for him. I think for now we will end up with two working trios, one with Delilah, Davey and Dex; and one with the boys. Even if they stay like that at least they can be interchanged between everybun. The boys will be great together- Dennis has already been seriously groomed by Dex and Davey a little bit. They will be lugged around a lot in the next few months. Anytime we go on a quick errand they will, most of the time, come with us. |
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Petzy 
Forum Leader Northern AB Canada
 Posts: 5938


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| 07/02/2010 08:19 PM |
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and remember even iif there iis no grooming, it can still be a bond. Did I tell you that Neigey has never groomed anybun to this day? |
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"what happened?
did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?" |
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mrmac  San Diego, CA
 Posts: 2167


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| 07/02/2010 08:59 PM |
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That is different. I have never heard of a bunny not grooming! I do worry though about it a little though because some of them are very demanding of grooms... |
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Petzy 
Forum Leader Northern AB Canada
 Posts: 5938


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| 07/02/2010 09:06 PM |
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Most bunnies will groom but not all. If you do stress bonding they can overcome the frustration from unfulfilled grooming demands. |
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"what happened?
did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?" |
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mrmac  San Diego, CA
 Posts: 2167


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| 07/02/2010 09:30 PM |
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Yes we will definitely be using the stress bonding with them. |
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mrmac  San Diego, CA
 Posts: 2167


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| 07/06/2010 01:19 PM |
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Well last night we moved Davey into the bedroom, sharing Dennis' pen that I divided up. He will spend the nights in there with Dennis, but return to the trio's pen during the day and for play times. I will just say that Davey was not thrilled about being stuck in that little space but he will get used to it. He was driving me crazy trying to fall asleep last night; chewing the wire, digging, all the noisy things that keep you up! I had to create my own divider. I used the top wire part of the pet store cages with one of the larger flaps opened up. The pen is made around our dresser. Dennis I do not have to worry about chewing the front of the drawers off but Davey is a nibbler so I had to "heavy duty" his side. Hubby suggested that Dennis wear a little doggy sweater to protect his boo boos, what a sight that would be! I told him, maybe just a little t-shirt instead!
Please excuse the mess on the dresser. Most of it is Dennis' boo boo cleaning stuff

I put hay on either side to encourage them to eat together. Dennis didn't care and ran right up and started chowing down, but Davey was still nervous.

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Petzy 
Forum Leader Northern AB Canada
 Posts: 5938


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| 07/07/2010 11:51 AM |
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How is Davey liking it today? You had to move him there to start him off with Dennis. How is Delilah reacting to Davey when he comes back to her? Neat setup! A bedroom bunny ranch  ! |
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"what happened?
did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?" |
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