So here are quite  a few videos to enjoy - hey, if you are into it, you can even watch a bunny fight! 

So, first session in the garden. The first 20 minutes were more or less small tiffs. I don't remember the number of times, I was bit. And yeah, we had another one of those moments with Karl sqeeuking and screaming, because Freddie was biting him  I went away to get dinner and had Karl caged within the pen. Next session I was back with the camera, and here is how it went. This is the longest session, I've ever done. I think, it's been 1½ hour or so.

1. Freddie digs and watches Karl

Look how tense Karl is. He was like that throughout the whole session...

2. Close to each other, but no fight!

Yeeeah, no fighting. Karl just moves away quickly. This is the one of the best moments during the session, so please enjoy!

3. Karl snaps at Molly

So, Karl is stressed and Molly is right there, so he takes it out on her. He is so stressed, he tries to get behind the cage.

4. Karl is getting a bit aggressive in his behaviour

Karl runs after Freddie who is inside the box; Freddie comes right after him and it does not look friendly! I think it is Karl, who bites me as I put my hand between them. And Freddie just digs and digs right in Karl's spot. It most be a dominance thing as JerseyGirl mentioned earlier in this thread. The way that Karl comes back right at the end of the video supports this.

5. Best session moment

Karl is grooming Molly when Freddie decides to join the party. He shows no aggression or interest in Karl. When Karl moves quickly towards him and withpulls, I'm not interfering although it looks like it. I think it is more of a "fake attack" on his part. And in the end, everybody seems friendly.

Look at poor Molly just trying to get a groom

6. Bunny fight!

And well, pardon my language if anyone understands what I'm shouting. Karl bit me trying to get to Freddie.

I finished it off with them both in the container and petting them for a minute or so.

 I have lots of other videos and also another one of me getting caught in a tiff. But this is just so you can see what the session was like.

In general, I was quite positive about it. At least, it wasn't one big fight as I had feared it might have been. There was fighting, but now at least they had the room to escape each other. I will do another session tomorrow morning! And yes, Petzy, I have a bicycle trailer. We actually talked about using that one today, but I didn't want to because I cannot control them then. Once they fight, they don't seem to stop and I won't have easy access to them, but I'm willing to give it a go, if you think it might be a good idea?

Posted By Karla on 07/17/2010 12:22 AM
By the way, are you suggesting I don't do any more sessions in the outdoor pen now?

Not at all!  I think the pen is a good space for you to work in.   No, I was just commenting on how the bun buns seemed.  Karl is just being a stress head then. That's ok. It's temporary and will get better.  I'm kinda more worried about your stress levels!  It's good to read you've just had a fairly calm session. When things go awry I think it's good to go back to a thing that is working (like the pets side by side).

With the outdoor pen, you could hang sheets or something on some sides to make it feel more confined.   See if it makes any difference.

 

Just to show you something nice in between all these frustrating updates:

Now, Freddie and Molly was an easy bond. As easy as all the previous ones have been. They took a liking to each other instantly.

It actually came as a big surprise to me that Molly welcomed him straight away since she was not as welcoming towards Jack when he moved in for the first 3 days.  But perhaps that was due to his illness

Although I love the fact that Molly and Freddie both groom each other, it kind of breaks my heart knowing that Molly never grooms Karl...

But I guess it is a bunny thing, and that Karl doesn't feel as bad about it as I do  

Man, I hope Karl and  Freddie bond very soon, so all three can lie together.

I have lost track of how many sessions, I've done. I've think I have reached session #56 just now. We don't seem to go anywhere, so I just now tried putting them in the container to see if they would still be friendly towards each other. Nope. Freddie bit me the second I put Karl down in the container to him. So I moved them back to my lap, where Karl tried biting Freddie. But they calmed down and stayed on my lap for 15 minutes or more.

Freddie seems very relaxed on my lap and actually cuddles up close to Karl. Karl is a bit more tense, and his eyes look like they are popping out, but at least he is not showing any aggressive signs. Both try to avoid me and hide when I enter the room, because they know I am there to lift them. We are making NO progress at all. None whatsoever.

By the way, Karl has a nasty bite on his back...presumedly from their fight last week, so it wasn't as innocent as I wrote.

 

I’m putting the bonding sessions on pause. I don’t like the way this is affecting Karl and making a previously skittish, but curious and funny bunny into an aggressive, nervous bunny who will growl and lunge at me, if I get too close to him on our bonding days. He is so easily stressed that this is taking its toll on him, so I need the zylkene to work on him for a while, before we start up again.

Also, yesterday there was a fight unfortunately. I put Freddie in a different cage than usual, which I thought was 100% bunny proof as not even Molly has been able to escape it. I went on an hour walk with the dog and when I was home, I just wanted to get something from the bunny room. I noticed the horrible smell (that always comes when they fight) and saw fur on the floor. Then I saw that the cage was empty! I finally found Freddie hiding behind the bin. Both seem to have a tiny bite mark on their back, but that’s it. Phew! At least, they have given up the fight, which I find positive. I really hope we can move to a house soon, so I have more room and can separate them! I miss having bunnies roam my apartment freely and when I didn’t have to feel bad constantly about one of them being caged. 

Another thing is that I was thinking that using stress techniques or having them on my lap maybe not be the way to go. If they were dogs, the Stillwell approach would be to let them slowly meet while making them associate each other with treats. If only I could find a way of doing this. Like this video here:

http://animal.discovery.com/videos/...ydney.html
 

First of all I want to let you know I'm sending (((peace vibes))) your way.

Now, can I ask a favour? Would you go back to having them in separate rooms for a bit and think about this again (rehoming) when you're not feeling so upset? You've gone to a lot of trouble with Freddie's health and I know you love him. Please look at this again when some days have passed. These latest bonding sessions could have been highly charged because the boys accidently got together and fought so recently. Hang in there!