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Forum THE LOUNGE Need help with finding a new bunny

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    • Karla
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        I really want a trio again at some point, but I’m not sure what to go for.

        I have no experience with babies, so I have to ask: are they easier to turn into snuggle-loving bunnies?  I would really think so, but then again,  you never know what you get personality-wise, when you pick animal babies. The downside is also, if I go for a baby, I will have to buy it from a professional breeder , which is a bit against my principles.
         
        I know, that a senior bunny will be more relaxed and perhaps more likely to enjoy the pets, however, I won’t know its personality either, as I will have to trust the owners wanting to sell it.
         
        What is your experience?
         
        The only shelter, I know of is a couple of hours from here and they don’t have a website. I got Karl from this shelter, and although they at least take in bunnies, they have no knowledge about them. I was told Karl was a female, and I am not interested in another sex mix-up, so I am a bit wary. Karl spent the first 5 months of his life at this shelter in a small hutch without being handled or seeing other rabbits…I love the little guy, but I do think that it has impacted him. He is much more skittish than Molly, it took a very long time to teach him that we had no intentions of eating him, and now that Jack is gone, he has gone back to his old ways and keeps his distance to me.  
         
        Share your thoughts and comments – I just want some input really. Senior? baby? shelter? breeder? private ad?


      • Beka27
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          Posted By Karla on 05/05/2010 02:22 AM

           

          I have no experience with babies, so I have to ask: are they easier to turn into snuggle-loving bunnies?  I would really think so, but then again,  you never know what you get personality-wise, when you pick animal babies. The downside is also, if I go for a baby, I will have to buy it from a professional breeder , which is a bit against my principles.
           

           

          No.  Absolutely not.  I’ve always compared it to a human toddler and an adult.  You’d be a fool to try and determine what an adult will be like, based on their behavior as a toddler.  If that were the case, we’d all be throwing temper tantrums in the store and eating dirt.  Definitely go with an adult, especially since your desire is to have a trio.  If you got a baby, you’d have to wait months to begin bonding anyways, and there is no guarantee it would be any more successful, or that the baby would prefer being held.  Rabbits, as a general rule, just don’t like to be held.  There are exceptions of course, but if you want a cuddly animal, that’s not going to be a rabbit.

          Edited to add: if you were having issues finding rescue bunnies in your area, another option you might consider is “adopting” a retired breeding rabbit.  You’d have to deal with a breeder, which is less than ideal, but you’d be giving an older bunny a second chance at a good life.  And I think breeders don’t use buns past a couple years old.  Of course, you’d have to neuter yourself, but it’s an option.  It’s an idea since I know rescues are not as plentiful where you are.


        • Karla
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            Karl is actually the youngest pet, I have had (5 months), as I prefer to know the personality of my pets. The reason I then consider adopting a baby is the fact that it took so much work to get him accustomed to pets because he wasn’t handled properly as a baby, and he is still a strange bunny. Molly was properly handled by her previous owners, and she is much more calm and trusts us. She prefers sleeping in the doorways and even strangers can step over her, clearly she has been socialised well.

            So, it is not that I expect that the cuddly baby will not grow up and be way too busy for cuddles and prefer doing things on its own, but more the fact, that you can teach it at an early stage to sit on your lap, to know that a hand that pets you won’t kill you et.c. If you know what I mean?


          • Karla
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              Edited to add: if you were having issues finding rescue bunnies in your area, another option you might consider is “adopting” a retired breeding rabbit.  You’d have to deal with a breeder, which is less than ideal, but you’d be giving an older bunny a second chance at a good life.  And I think breeders don’t use buns past a couple years old.  Of course, you’d have to neuter yourself, but it’s an option.  It’s an idea since I know rescues are not as plentiful where you are.

              Ah, good point! I did actually see one ad today for a Flemish giant (haha, no way, my boyfriend will say yes), but I didn’t consider this idea at all.


            • Beka27
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                I understand what you mean, and this reasoning is correct for dogs, but in my experience, not so much for bunnies. Two buns can be socialized the exact same but have entirely different adult personalities. By all means, you can give it a try and get a baby bunny and see how things progress, but I just don’t want you to be overly disappointed if things don’t end up working out as planned.


              • Sarita
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                  I have never gotten a rabbit from a breeder but obviously some of my rabbits had to have come from a breeder at some time – some I believe have come from backyard breeding or accidental litters. I’m lucky in that there are rabbits in shelters ALL the time where I live and if I chose to get another rabbit, that’s always my choice.

                  However, I realize that not everyone is lucky enough to be able to adopt a rabbit from a shelter…which is why I do like Beka’s idea about giving a retired breeding rabbit a second chance. I have no idea how you would go about finding a rabbit that way however…I suppose in ad’s.

                  In any event, you may not really know their personality if the rabbit is from a shelter, a breeder or an individual. Shelters don’t normally really know the rabbits personality and their behavior usually changes (for the better) once they are in a home environment. With an individual you risk them not revealing all their (bad) personality traits and with a breeder the same thing as all their rabbits are basically living like shelter rabbits, in cages.


                • Elrohwen
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                    I agree that socializing baby buns doesn’t always work. I think it’s more nature than nuture. We socialized the heck out of Otto, but he’s still aloof. He’s not really skittish (though he has his neuroses) but he usually hops away when I try to pet him.

                    I think getting a retired breeder bun would be a good idea. Even they haven’t been a house pet, hopefully they’re used to being around people and being handled. And you could meet them and experience their personality for yourself. I would call up some local breeders and tell them what you’re interested in and then wait and see. I believe males can breed for many years, but females are generally retired by 3 years old. And even males are retired when the breeder doesn’t need them anymore.


                  • Karla
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                      Okay, if you and Beka say so, I believe you. It is so much easier not to get an adult, so if that is not the case of socialising them properly when they are young, then no need to look for a baby really.

                      I found a retired male today. I think he was actually only 2-3 years old, but I only found this ad, so I don’t know if he was just retired at a very early age.

                      I could contact some breeders, although to be honest, I actually think they eat the retired bunnies? But worth a go, anyhow.


                    • Karla
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                        I’ve been looking at various breeder websites, and I have to admit, that I cannot support these people by buying a retired rabbit from them. Not at all. What I read is so far from my beliefs on how we should treat animals, and just reading about it gives me chills. Maybe I’ve been unlucky and just found the really bad breedes, but hmm…doubt it.

                        It was a great idea though. I do think though that if I come across an ad by coincidence, I might contact the breeder, as the breeders that actually try to find a new home for their retired rabbits on various websites are less “professional” in their outlook on rabbits and care for them.

                        But I think we will visit the shelter. It is a 3-hour ride from here with different trains and busses, which makes it complicated. Mostly because they have initiated a new great concept that they will neuter the males for just $40 (!!) if you ask for it, an offer I will accept of course, but it means I have to go there again a few days later. Before I go though, I have to read up on how to figure out the sex on rabbits who haven’t sexually matured yet. Don’t trust them again.


                      • Minty
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                          I have to admit that I did get my Sully from a breeder. However, I did visit her rabbitry several times before making a decision and she treated all of her rabbits very well and genuinely cared for their health and wellbeing. They were just as much pets to her as Sully is a pet to me. I’m not sure if it was just the Holland Lop breed but all of her rabbits were very sociable and they weren’t skittish. I saw Sully and fell in love with him! I also liked that I was able to meet his parents and see their personality traits. A good breeder will usually only choose the calmest/friendliest bunnies to use in their breeding program, as traits like aggression and skittishness are often things that are passed on to offspring.

                          I do agree with the ‘nature vs. nurture’ idea, as she told me Sully was the cuddliest bunny in the litter. Sully is still relatively young at 7 months but I’m not sure if it was because she raised him well or because he just has a good disposition – he is good to pick up and once you have him in your arms he will let you do whatever you want with him and will sit with me on the sofa, hop around on my lap, etc. I know many of you don’t agree with buying from breeders, but I did have a good experience with the lady I got Sully from. He is in perfect health. She also encouraged me to neuter him, I did have to pay for the neuter myself however. She also does not over breed her rabbits and has a very small rabbitry of about 10 Hollands. I know I may get bashed for supporting this breeder, but I really do believe she does a great job raising her buns. I do know there are lots of irresponsible breeders out there as well. I think it is a lot like pure bred dogs. My dog is a pure bred and I got him from a breeder. I showed him to his Canadian Championship title and then neutered him because I did not want to breed him. However, I know his breeder is dedicated to the breed and improving upon it, and does not pump out litters of puppies just to make money. A lot of people tell me that a mix would be the same as my dog, but I do believe that certain desirable personality traits and qualities are carried in a breed through responsible breeding.

                          Anyways, I am not saying you should go to a breeder and totally agree with your decision to go to a shelter. Just in my opinion, not all breeders are ‘bad’ and not all are breeding to make money. Especially in bunny breeding, unless you are mass breeding bunnies like a puppy mill, there isn’t much money to be made and most of the money goes right back into your rabbitry to keep your animals healthy and happy.

                           

                          Phew, sorry that was so long, I think I was rambling a bit 


                        • Karla
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                            SullysMum, I do understand what you mean. And I do think we need professional breeders as well – they should in fact be the only one to breed rabbits, and where we should get our rabbits from if it was a perfect world. Not pet shops or from website ads.

                            I think your breeder sounds nice. The ones I looked at was all about how easy it was to have a rabbit, and that they didn’t need time outside their cages, and if you got bored of them, you could always bring them back to the breeder who will kill them for you. And they would happily sell the rabbits to people who needed to teach their dogs to hunt et.c. It was just all of it that got too much for me.

                            But I do believe that not all breeders are like this, and if I didn’t think that there were way too many abandonded pet animals in this world, I wouldn’t feel so bad about encouring their work.

                            As for dogs, I’ve bought a mix now from a shelter. But in all honesty, that wasn’t really the plan. The plan was a purebreed from an estimeed breeder, and actually the breed we were planning to get, does require that you breed it as the number of dogs is too small. I still want this breed, and I still want to be foolish and go to competions with it and win awards which I cannot do with our mix.


                          • Elrohwen
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                              Sullysmom, in general I agree with you. I got Otto from a breeder and he was very well taken care of.

                              My only problem with bunnies from breeders, even the really good breeders, is that they aren’t breeding for temperament. As long as a bunny isn’t a biter, they generally use it if it has nice type. They might not have mean psycho bunnies, but they can have every other temperament including aloof or nervous. But that’s why it’s important to meet the parents if you can! I think that tells you more than anything on a baby bun. Dogs are bred more for a specific temperament characteristic of the breed.

                              There are also way more lousy breeders than good ones and it sounds like Karla has only been finding the lousy ones 🙁 I totally support you in not supporting the lousy breeders! Even if it’s just to take a retired bun off of their hands.


                            • Sarita
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                                Well, I guess I want to know what breeders do with those animals that they don’t feel are friendly. I know that in shelter situations these animals who have “behavior” problems are generally not adopted out and put to sleep due to space so what do the breeders do with those rabbits…just curious.


                              • Deleted User
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                                  Posted By Sarita on 05/05/2010 12:13 PM
                                  Well, I guess I want to know what breeders do with those animals that they don’t feel are friendly.

                                   

                                  Some breeders also supply people with meat rabbits.
                                   


                                • Elrohwen
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                                    And I imagine they would put some of them down 🙁 Though hopefully (wishfully thinking) they just wouldn’t buy them in the first place and wouldn’t have a problem they need to get rid of.


                                  • Minty
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                                      I know many breeders ‘cull’ their herds by simply selling stock they do not want, not necessarily killing them. I do know of breeders who eat their buns too though… (I don’t think I could EVER do that.) However, I think the objective is to not introduce the skittish or aggressive buns into their herds in the first place, so they would not have to deal with culling out these rabbits down the line. I do know breeders who breed simply for type, which is where you get the mean and neurotic animals. These breeders are often not very responsible either so you will see the bunnies they don’t want sold in pet shops, etc.

                                      I have come across many problems with back yard bred animals, not just bunnies. Someone I know bought a puppy off CL from a supposedly ‘reputable’ breeder and it is the most neurotic thing I have ever seen… So really, I think it is up to the buyer to make an informed decision and use some discretion. If pet stores and individuals weren’t supporting the poor breeders and were only supporting the responsible ones then there would be a lot less homeless animals on this earth. Also, most responsible breeders will always ask you to bring the animal back if you feel you can’t care for it anymore, but not so they can kill it, so they can rehome it to someone they approve of. I actually co-own my dog with my breeder (she does this with all her dogs) so if anything were to happen to me and I could not keep him, she would be the first person who could rightfully take him. (Which I am okay with because I TRUST her as a breeder and a dog owner.) I also know Sully’s breeder would take him back in an instant if for some reason I could not care for him anymore. She really loved him and wanted to keep him, she just didn’t have room in her rabbitry. I also email her regularly and she enjoys hearing about how he is doing and seeing pictures of him. 

                                      I just wish bunnies would gain more respect as indoor house pets instead of $10.00 pets that people throw away when they get bored  With all this being said, I support rescues as well, and really appreciate the work they do.


                                    • Deleted User
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                                        Karla, I recommend a young rabbit to you after finding out about your toller pooch. It will be much easier to socialize a young rabbit with the dog. Once you have one bunny used to your dog, you are well on your way with the others.


                                      • Minty
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                                          Here’s an article I found interesting regarding Holland Lop personalities and what breeders look for. However, I think it could relate to any rabbit. Sorry, I had to copy and paste it since it wasn’t linking properly…

                                          Holland Lop Personality

                                          by Sylvia Hess

                                          During my years of raising my own Hollands and clerking behind the show tables, I have noticed that they seem to have about three different types of personalities. For this article I am going to give them fictional names of Twang, Cuddles, and Boring. Some Hollands have multiple personalities depending on their environment and will show traits of all three.

                                          Twang is hyperactive or high strung. This rabbit forms an image in my mind of a tightly strung line that goes twang if you tug on it. At home they pace constantly, even when they are in over-sized cages. The buck tends to take great delight in urinating on anyone and anything and some breeders feel that these are more sexually aggressive males. As for myself, I find no correlation between sex and going to the “bathroom”. On the show table they tend to be difficult to contain in the showing coop. They escape often and race up and down the table like they had a greyhound after them. Judges must spend much more time attempting to pose them. Some do have very fine type and can be used in a well-planned breeding program. I feel they should not go to pet homes however as they are the ones who could become biters if not properly cared for.

                                          Cuddles is in my opinion the ideal Holland Lop personality. Most of us think of our Hollands as cute and cuddly. This is an alert animal, aware of, and interested in all that is going on around it. Cuddles would rather be petted then fed and comes eagerly to you when you open the cage door. They like to be held and give rabbit kisses and cuddle under your chin. They make the ideal pet rabbit. The Cuddles doe generally makes a good mother and does not get upset when you tend to her and the babies. The bucks have a lovingly aggressive method of breeding rather than a “wham, bam, thank you ma’am” approach. On the show table they will sometimes take a stroll, or attempt to influence the judge by stretching up and trying to kiss them. They will stay in a show pose for a limited amount of time but then are overcome by curiosity regarding the rabbit next to them etc. They have a friendly extroverted personality.

                                          Boring does not need to much explanation for the name. Boring does not need a large cage as they hardly ever move. Boring does however have the best personality for showing as they can maintain a show pose forever. A nicer name would be Laid Back, but they are boring. They do not stress out as much as Twang or even Cuddles can during a show, but if they do, they do it quietly. Some breed rapidly enough and others (especially does) never breed. Boring bucks usually rouse themselves enough just for breeding. These Borings often become Champions and I have a few of my own breeding.

                                          By now you have probably figured out that I believe Twangs should be bred to Borings in hopes of Cuddles with a dash of Boring on the show tables! Twangs make me nervous though and I don’t keep the few I get. Any rabbit can become a biter of course if it is raised in a poor environment or mistreated, aside from the hereditary factor.

                                          This has been MY experiences and opinion on Holland Lop personalities. I would like to see more emphases put on how the rabbit conducts itself on the show table and I feel that the majority of Holland breeders prefer the Cuddles personality, I know the pet buyer would!


                                        • Minty
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                                            Karla, are you taking your bunnies for bunny dates at the shelter? Let us know how it goes if you do!


                                          • Moonlight_Wolf
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                                              OK I am sorry to say, but I think I do prefer buying animals as babies…
                                              I know that it is better to buy from a shelter and that you are saving an amimal, but I just would rather buy a baby and bond with him/her from a young age.
                                              The breeder I bought Fern from was actually a really nice breeder. All her rabbits were well cared for and loved and she was breeding them for pets rather than shows. Some breeders are good and some I admit are bad, but I liked the one I bought fern from.
                                              I just like having animals from when they are babies, I like going through the bad “‘teenage stage” with them, it makes me feel like I know them better.


                                            • MarkBun
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                                                My girlfriend is like this too – prefers the babies. I prefer ones that have already gone through alteration and have had time to calm down. At SaveABunny, each rabbit’s temperment and personality is evaluated so that we can match rabbits with the owners. So if you want a lap bunny, we can give you one, whereas if you’d prefer one that keeps himself entertained with exploration, we can do that too.


                                              • Sarita
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                                                  Hmmm…I think you can bond as easily with an adult as with a baby. I don’t age has a thing to do with bonding at all. I’ve bonded quite well with all my rabbits who came to me as adults. I think alot has to do with what your expectations are about what you feel a bond is with your rabbit.

                                                  I’ve had a few rabbits from babies too that weren’t cuddle buns and were quite independent and just wanted to be left alone – kind of the extrovert time – I can respect that too :~)


                                                • Beka27
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                                                    And as far as breeders, they are all going to appear “nice” and “caring”. What kind of advertisement would that be if they answered the door wearing a rabbit fur coat? But when it comes right down to it, they want to sell you a bunny. If not you, someone else.


                                                  • Moonlight_Wolf
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                                                      Hmm you may speak the truth, it might just be Thistle that is the non-snuggle bun. I’m not saying I don’t like Thistle, I do, it’s just I prefer my bunnies to not shy away from my pets, I don’t need them to want to be held, even Fern hates that, it’s just I would really like to pet Thistle but when I do he just gets annoyed and hops away. The next bun I get I might end up fostering first just to get the feel for his/her personality, but that’s going to be a while down the line.
                                                      That is cool how SaveABunny “categorizes” the bunnies there, if I end up in California someday, I will have to check it out. My local shelter does not have a huge selection of bunnies, it is a fairly small shelter with not that many bunnies. I went there before I got thistle and all the bunnies seemed to be female! I lucked out with thistle.

                                                      It’s so bad, I see bunnies at the garden shop, the stores and the shelter when I visit and I just would so much like to get another bunny, and I would but I don’t think it would be fair to my mom if I got a third and she had to care for it when I went off to college. I probably could convince her, but I don’t think that now is the right time for another bun for me.


                                                    • Elrohwen
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                                                        I’ll admit that part of me likes getting babies too. We got Otto as a baby, and I wouldn’t hesitate to do it again. Maybe we’ll even keep up our pattern of getting a baby, then get an already fixed adult companion later. I’m not a motivated bonder, so I can’t imagine getting a baby and hoping it bonds with my adult at some point.

                                                        Otto’s not very cuddly, and doesn’t like pets all the time, but I adore him and he’s my baby. If I had adopted him as an adult, I can’t say I’d feel the same for some reason. Though I might feel that way about any bunny that I have as an only bun, because I think it’s so much easier to bond with them. Hannah is very sweet, but I don’t feel like I get the one-on-one time I got with Otto.


                                                      • Sarita
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                                                          Boy you guys are hard on the seniors around here LOL. I do see the appeal of a baby because well, heck they are so cute but you do know that you can get babies from shelters and rescues as well. I have gotten many a baby from a shelter – it may be more difficult to adopt a baby from a rescue where they usually require the rabbit be altered first but that would not be a requirement at a shelter. Heck rabbits of all ages end up in shelters.


                                                        • kralspace
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                                                            After going through puberty with Pringles, I’ll take a senior any day. There were times when she was in that terrible pre-spay/full hormone stage I feared for my life 😉

                                                            Now she is just the sweetest mellow girl that it’s hard to realize it’s the same bunny.


                                                          • Deleted User
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                                                              Yes, shelters sometimes have entire litters of kits, and also bunnies who just hit puberty and were no longer wanted because of the accompanying behaviors.


                                                            • Elrohwen
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                                                                I’m all for rescuing babies from shelters! The rescues around here let babies go out pre-spay and neuter, but require you to do it later. I would absolutely look into that for my next baby bunny.

                                                                I don’t think I’d ever get a female baby bunny though. Too many horror stories!


                                                              • Monkeybun
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                                                                  Monkey wasn’t THAT bad as a baby. She just doesn’t like being touched And she only growls at my hubby, she likes me


                                                                • Beka27
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                                                                    My girl either came into the shelter EITHER with a litter or the mother was brought in pregnant (I was never able to get a straight answer as to how she came about). But I got her at about 4 months, so she was still young, but not a wee little baby. I had to spay her myself (received a small break on the cost, but it would have been much cheaper had she been a few months older). And honestly, the sweet babyness only lasted another month and a half, so was it worth it? I don’t know. Of course, I wouldn’t change a thing in retrospect, but I think generally babies are overrated.

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                                                                Forum THE LOUNGE Need help with finding a new bunny