DAY 1

This will be my bonding journal as I work on bonding Leroy and his new girlfriend (who is currently unnamed, so she's just "new bunny" for now )

Their initial meetings when I took Leroy dating went VERY well.  Leroy groomed her on their first and second meeting and there was no aggression between the two.  So, Leory and I picked her and brought her home last night.  Initiallly I had planned to wait a couple days before bothing the new bunny, but she was so cute, I just had to let her out in a pen to play with her.   She seemed totally at home and comfortable with me and with her new home.

Last night and this morning they showed an incredible ammount of interest in each other  through the cage bars, and given the success of their first meeting, I decided to do a quick bonding session this morning.  I started the bonding in the bathtub becasue it's a neutral area and because it's small so I can watch them and intervene if need be.  Well.... It went ok. They both were initially trying to get out of the tub and then for a while they just sat there, side by side, not moving.  It wasn't a comfortable sit though, they were very tense.  I don't know if it was becasue of the bath tub or becasue of each other.... and then Leroy got a bit more confidence and started getting pretty humpy.  I let him hump her for a few seconds since she let him and wasn't running away, but then I pushed him off.  Should I let him hump her (of course, on the butt, not on the face)?   Then they both sat there some more; Leroy munched some hay, new bunny wouldn't eat anything.  Leroy tried to hump a few more times, but I pushed him off.  And as I was petting both of them, Leroy groomed her a little bit on her side, which I was happy to see after all his humpiness, so I ended it there.

I was expecting the new bunny to be more dominant since she was the one requesting and receiving the groomings on their dates.... so is it ok that Leroy humps her now?  Was the new bunny just too scared to be more dominant; should I wait a little longer before doing any more bonding sessions?

 ETA: "New Bunny" now has a name: Eugénie or Jeannie!

 

DAY 2

I did another quick bonding session this morning. This time I put a towel in the bottom of half of the tub. I know it defeats the purpose of the slick surface, but yesterday New Bunny was so terrified of the floor that I though this might help her be a little more confident. I kept Leroy to the non-towel side since he's got enough confidence already. Leroy tried to hump her once - or it looked like he was going to try, I pushed him off before he got started. Then I think he got a bit frustrated, and he got a little nippy, but I just kept pushing him away and finally he calmed down. When he was sitting still, New Bunny left her towel to approach him and sniff, but then she went away. Then they just sat at opposite ends of the tub for awhile, doing nothing. I was petting them both so this might have contributed to their unwillingness to move. Leroy then decided he wanted to be on the towel too and since he had calmed down and stopped nipping, I let him. She asked him to groom her and he did (he started getting a little rough and he might have slipped a nip in there).   I pushed Leroy away and New Bunny took a hop or two away from him. Leroy tried to follow her and since he approached her from the side (and I think took another nip at her), they had a bit of an altercation - she obviously did not appreciate what he was doing and was bound and determined to tell him so.  I separated them both and after they calmed down we reached a stalemate. They sat facing eachother with their cheeks touching and their chins on the floor, both demanding that the other bunny groom them. They were just like little kids stubbornly fighting over a toy! I could feel them pushing on each others face I knew that at this point it was unlikely that either would give in so I petted them a bit and ended the session there since no one was fighting and they were at least touching.

 

 

I took Leroy to his cage first and then came back for New Bunny (I put her in the tub first too) I'm not sure what order I should put them in/out of the neutral area but I figured that since New Bunny was a little uncomfortable in the tub yesterday, I'd put her in first and leave her in there the longest so she can get more comfortable with the tub and get some of her confidence back. Also, New Bunny is too little to get herself out of the tub... Leroy is tall enough taht he can get his front paws of the edge and pull himself out and I don't want him to hurt himself if he falls. Does it matter what order I put them in/out of the bonding area?

When I came back to get New Bunny, she was fastideously grooming herself... I think she was saying, "Gots ta get da icky boy bunny smell offa me!"

DAY 2

Did another bonding session tonight. More of the same. Leroy was still nippy, though he didn't try to mount her. Though that may have been becasue I was holding him back and trying to keep him from biting her. No more grooming so I cheated and put some applesauce on their heads. Leroy groomed New Bunny, but she didn't reciprocate. I feel bad for him. I think his nippy-ness is because she's not grooming him. They had another little scuffle. It usually happens when one or the other gets too close to the other's butt. I try to keep them positioned so they're not butt to face, but they're so quick. Nothing serious though, just more lunging and a nip or two from both. Didn't break the skin or pull out fur. We ended with them sitting nose to nose like in the above picture, no nipping, and me petting their heads for a minute or two.

They're so cute together!

(((((grooming vibes!!)))))

Aww, what a cute couple!!

Ok, so take this with a grain of salt, since I have zero bonding experience, but something you wrote tipped off part of my brain that thought "What would Petzy do?"

For your little girl, you said you were trying to make her more comfortable in the bathtub, but I think you might be better off if she's thrown off balance a little bit. And to extend that, Leroy might be less nippy if he wasn't so confident. Maybe a stress bonding session is in order? From Petzy's advice to others, it seems like the less confident they are in their surroundings, the more they turn to each other.

Good luck! I still can't wait to hear what New Bunny's name is ;-)

Hmmm Elrohwen, I didn't think about it that way. You're right, Leroy could stand to be taken down a notch. It probably doesn't help that he ruled the roost around here so even the bathroom isn't ENTIRELY neutral - the tub is though, he'd never been in it before I got New Bunny.

Now I just have to figure out how/where to do a stress bonding.... I have a carrier but I don't want to put them in it because I need to be able to get my hand in there quickly in case they start going at it.... I don't have a washer/dryer to turn on and put them on top of.... Hmmm, I think tomorrow I'll put them in a laundry basket or cardboard box and kind of just rock it around... could I do that in the living room or bedroom, even though they're not "neutral"? If that doesn't work I can always recruit the BF or my best friend to drive us around in the car.

And I'm close to finally picking her name   I'm spending some more time with her before deciding so I can see which fits the best

Make a grid cube Its great, you can just haul it around the place, shaking it to shake em up

Hahaha I just got a GREAT image of you hauling Monkey and Moose in a little grid cube around your apartment and shaking it to get them to bond I'll try something like that tomorrow!

DAY 3

I tried bonding them in a laundry basket. I held it up, so I think the height and the slippery bottom of the laundry basket worried them enough that neither tried to attack the other. I did shake the basket a bit every now and then. In this setting, Leroy wasn't even nippy or humpy! Though I think they were both too scared for grooming. Leroy didn't groom Jeannie this time. I ended the bonding session after about 15 minutes, put the basket on the floor and kind of shoved them together to sit side by side, and I petted them before getting them out of the basket.

Sounds good to me! I think having positive experiences like that will be good for them. Not that riding in a laundry basket is a good experience, but their interaction together was positive.

Very true. Then they can band together and gang up on me! I can just see it... the two bunnies plotting through their cage bars.

I was thinking about doing another bonding session tonight but I'm tired... so we'll see.

*wistful sigh*

I am so jealous.

Then they can band together and gang up on me! I can just see it...

Careful....this DOES happen! lol

Barbie, I don't know if this'll be worth it but I'm wondering if you could observe them in a similar set up to the shelter. Maybe a pen with a tarp/shower curtain/picnic rug or blanket? So creating a neutral space if you will. You said they did well at the shelter. So I'm kinda curious if what they'd be like in a pen. In the tub, "they" (rabbits in general) can spend more time periscoping and wondering why they're there. If they do well in a pen, you might be able to skip the tub and the other stress bonding. Or keep those aside for if things regress.

Some more familiar, stable ground for these two might be worth a try as they've already shown a liking to each other. I'm sorry , I haven't seen your entire videos as they didn't entirely load for me. I'm having intermittent trouble with this...grrr!

Jersey, I'm going to see if I can con my friend into letting us use her apartment for a little bit this weekend for bonding sessions. That way they'll be in a completely neutral setting. When we went dating, both bunnies were in a neutral space - I brought Leroy and Jeannie's foster mom brought her to the HRS adoption coordinator's house. So it might be good for them to go to a completely neutral space for a few sessions and then try the pen with a blanket down here. In the bonding section of this website, I saw the pictures of the pen set up with the blankets and stuff covering the sides so the bunnies couldn't see out, so I'll try that tomorrow and see what happens.

As for the videos.... yeah sometime I have trouble with youtube too... would going directly to the video be better than the embedded vids? http://www.youtube.com/LeroyTheBunny

Oh my gosh...your buns are so cute together! I am glad things are going well with them! "New Bunny" is such a little doll!!! Leroy seems a lot like Indy!

I love the video! Leroy just wants someone to make out with, apparently :-P He's very groomy!

They look very good together! Leroy is very handsome! Leroy just looks like he is asserting his dominance over Jeannie right now, "OMG a girl bunny!". She obviously is not a push over, since she responded to his advances and resulted in a little scuffle. Leroy will just have to learn his boundaries with her, and she the same with him. Keep up with the sessions, they really are looking good so far!

Thanks for the encouragement guys! *Runs off to start bonding, day 4*

DAY 4

Things did not go so well this time around. I have the holes in my hand to prove it. I tried putting them in a pen.... It was ovbiously too early for that. They would sniff around and then get close to each other, looking as if everything was fine. And even though I was RIGHT THERE, all of a sudden they started going at it. I separated them, and they'd be ok for a bit and then something would set one or the other off again. Putting my hands in the middle of their fight probably wasn't the smartest thing to do, but I was more concerned about their safety and making sure that no one got hurt and that no one had such a bad experience that it ruined the bonding. I BOUGHT gloves for the bonding, but silly me, I didn't think to wear them... Both Leroy and Jeannie got me pretty badly. At one point, I was pulling away from Jeannie's bite, but she had clamped down, and for just a second, she was literally dangling from my finger. I tried to put some mashed banana on Jeannie's head but both were too worked up and excited to even think about grooming.

After about three scuffles, I called it quits and went back to the laundry basket. I shook them around a bit and then they settled down. No grooming though, but no nipping or humping either.

I always try to end the sessions on a positive note. So even if they aren't voluntarily sitting together, I've been shoving them together to sit side by side or head to head and then I pet them for a bit before ending the bonding session. Is this a good thing to do?

The whole session was only 15 minutes.

DAY 4

We just had a MAJOR breakthrough!!! I'm so happy!

I did another bonding session tonight. This time in the tub. Initially, some grunting and lunging from Jeannie when I first put the two together, but no big scuffles like earlier. And I didn't get bitten again! I did wear my gloves at first because I feared that they had regressed to step negative ten and that we'd have another fight, but turns out I didn't need them They did a lot of exploring the tub and just sitting and ignoring each other at first. When one would walk behind the other there was no nipping (this had been the cause of the couple scuffles we had in the tub earlier this week). And Jeannie approached/followed Leroy a few times to sit next to him. Things were going well so I got a book and just read, sitting next to them and watching the activities out of the corner of my eye.

All of a sudden we had a breakthrough, Jeannie came right up beside Leroy and he turned to her and without any mooshed banana or apple sauce on her head, he started grooming her! Ok, so there was some dried banana on her head that I couldn't get off from earlier, so that might have helped, but he continued grooming her for a long time (or what seemed like a long time when you're sitting on a cold hard bathroom floor). Leroy groomed her, off and on, for I would guess 7-10 minutes total! It might have continued, but I ended the bonding session while we were ahead and put both of them to bed.

Still no grooming from Jeannie though, so I think tomorrow I'll try the banana on Leroy's head to trick Jeannie into giving him a couple licks. I'm confident that early on in the session tonight I saw her swipe him once with her tongue on his shoulder, but that hardly counts as grooming. Leroy obviously wants to be groomed by her, after licking her head/ears for a bit, he'd put his head down as if saying "ok, my turn now please". Twice, when she didn't reciprocate, Leroy gave her a bit of a nip, but nothing came of it, they didn't start fighting. When he put his head down, I'd pet him for a bit and then when I removed my hand, he'd resume grooming Jeannie.

They were in the bathtub for 45 minutes with no real incidents.  (Up until now, the sessions have been 15-20 minutes)

I have videos from tonight which I'll post this weekend. No videos from earlier though when we had that fight in the pen - was too busy trying to keep them from attacking each other and/or from being devoured in the "cross bite"

Bathtub Buddies!

Leroy's head looks misshapen here beacsue he was turning his head right as I took the picture, but they were snuggled up this close all on their own!  This was right before Leroy started grooming Jeannie for the first time in the session.

 

They look so innocent sitting there looking at you... how looks can be decieving.. hehe

DAY 5

Did another bonding session in the tub this morning. Things went well. Leroy started grooming Jeannie as soon as I put him in the tub, without any banana. I put banana on Leroy's head to try to get Jeannie to groom him. Jeannie LOVES nanners but she was so stubborn that she wouldn't even eat it off his head! Poor Leroy After I gave up on her grooming him, I offered her some banana from my hand, and she took it, so I know it's not that she was too scared to eat. Any other suggestions to get her to groom Leroy? Leroy grooms Jeannie a lot, but he's getting frustrated that she doesn't groom him. It goes like this lick lick lick lick... head down... waiting... nip!... lick lick lick.... head down... sigh. Poor Leroy. And poor Jeannie for getting nipped, but at least she gets groomings!

Anyway, we sat for about 20 minutes and then Leroy had an oops and peed in the tub. Poor guy. He just couldn't hold it any longer. All of the sessions I've done so far have been without a litter box because they've been short and because Jeannie and Leroy got a little territorial over the litter box when we went dating. But since Leroy obviously had to pee and since they were doing well, I put the common litter box in the tub with them. They get play time in the apartment separately, but they use the same litter box and toys in the living room without problems - no poop wars or anything -  (they each have their own stuff in their crates), so I know there was poop from both of them i there. Anyway, they had a little scuffle over the litter box, but after they calmed down, Leroy groomed Jeannie again and they sat there calmly, so I ended the session.

DAY 6

More bonding today. This session was an hour and 15 minutes in the tub. No major issues. For the first half hour I left the litter box out and then for the last 45 minutes, I put the litter box in. Things were just basically more of the same... Leroy groomed and groomed and groomed Jeannie, but Jeannie still didn't groom him, so he'd get frustrated and nip her. He got a bit humpy too since she wasn't grooming him. It's strange because she refuses to groom him and always puts her head down to demand grooming, but she lets him mount her. I kept Leroy from mounting her too much. They both groomed them selves, ate cecals, walked around and periscoped, and sat next to each other. No flops yet though. They shared a large piece of lettuce (I cut it into pieces) and they even used the litter box together without any nipping/fighting.

DAY 6

We had another break though!!!! Actually... several in this bonding session.

It was an hour and a half long. I started out with the litter boxes (2 this time) in the tub. Leroy was so interested in the new hay that I had put in that he could care less about Jeannie, so she was able to jump in the same box with him and they munched away together. So CUTE! After awhile I took the litter boxes away because no bonding was going on... Leroy was too engrossed in his hay - he's always been a bit of a glutton

After I took the litter boxes away it was more of the same, some grooming from Leroy and then nipping when he wasn't being groomed. He tried to mount a couple times, but a stern "no" stopped him. And then I guess he just got bored because he flopped!!!! Leroy doesn't flop too often as it is - he usually just lays on his tummy (like my current avatar pic). I was THRILLED to see this. It didn't even last long enough for me to get my camera out though He got up as soon as I moved (which he usually does when he's flopped and I'm trying to sneak a picture). And then just more of the same for awhile, but then Jeannie must have gotten bored because she decided to lay down in a loaf! When she's out to play she rarely stops moving, and until now, neither of them have been any more relaxed than an upright sit in the bonding sessions (unless I'm petting them and squishing them out flat, lol). I got pix of this. She looks so adorable - like an ittly bitty jelly bean (which is one of the nick names my boyfriend coined for her! well... his exact words were "like a jelly bean with rotten spots" referring to her black markings )

After awhile, I went to get a little bit of banana to encourage more grooming and so that I could end the session on a good note. Well... both are absolutely nutty over bananas (I don't know why, but Leroy used to refuse bananas and now he goes crazy over them) but I still couldn't convince Jeannie to groom Leroy. Leroy, like the good, sweet boy that he is, of course groomed her some more. I was just about to end the session there, but I decided to give them just a few more minutes, so I turned back to my text book and out of the corner of my eye saw movement.... It was Jeannie... grooming LEROY!!!  I'm sure she was just licking the banana off his head because it only lasted about 20 seconds, but man am I excited about this! So hopefully in the future she'll continue to eat off his head and then will groom him w no prompting at all Leroy looked surprised when she was licking his head. He actually pulled away for a second as if saying "wait, what is going on?!" and then stuck his head back down saying "more please." She complied. I'll post that video soon.

And I had to post this picture... I had my laptop with me in the bathroom and it was making noise - I think they look hilarious both periscoping like that

 

yay!!!

lol! A new olympic sport: synchronized periscoping

Sounds like your bonding is going great! Just the fact that they aren't fighting means they like each other at least a little bit :-P I bet you'll have a full bond pretty soon at the rate you're going.

Aww...compact little bunny loaf! She looks like a black-eyed pea. Barbie, you could have named her Fergie!
I can totally see the olympic pool before them in that periscope pic too. It's like "On your marks..."
Adorable!

Lintini, Elrohwen - I'm hoping to get them completely bonded soon! I hope things continue this well!

Jersey, MB - hahaha, i didn't even think of it that way, but now that you point it out, it does look like they're in some sort of synchronized sport or getting ready to dive into the pool

Jersey, Fergie is a cute name too! She does look like a Fergie. Shesh. Jeannie may go through several names with me

DAY 7

We did another bonding session this afternoon. 2.5 hours long. Same as usual. Lots of grooming from Leroy, minimal grooming from Jeannie (still had to be prompted by bananas).  Leroy flopped again! I let them out in the bathroom rather than in the tub for about 15 minutes part way though the bonding session, and it was going ok -minor scuffles - but I ended up just putting them back in the tub because I was distracted by a phone call. I felt comfortable enough to leave them and I was cleaning around my apartment but when I came back not even 5 minutes later, they were having a tiff! Sigh. Like little kids that act like angels in front of mommy, but get into it as soon as her back is turned That was the only time that happened though. I was able to come and go and they were ok in the tub alone. I think we'll try the bathroom floor again tomorrow and/or progress to a pen!

i don't know if anyone has said this, but it is a possibilty that leroy may be frustrated-flopping. sometimes when one bun is upset with the other, he will flop to out-relax the other. like "ha! see, i don't care about you, look how relaxed i am!" max and penny do this after they get annoyed with each other... its quite funny.