Elrohwen, Thank you for this new info. It is helpful to know that she said phenobarbitol WOULD NOT be the best treatment if EC is found to be the cause. Our vet mentioned that phenobarbitol is one of the meds that she would consider if EC was the cause, so I'm going to need to confirm this with her. In any case, I appreciate your help and information, thanks.

I would trust your vet, since my info is second hand at best. The phenobarbital may still be prescribed for the seizures, but I believe there are meds that would more appropriately deal with EC, if that is what he has. If you could treat the cause of the seizures, that might be better than just treating the seizures. EC is a difficult disease though and I know there can be a lot of components that need to be treated. I'm sure Linda, the rescue owner, could be more helpful than myself since she has experience with medical treatment on many many rabbits (though, of course, your vet should be your best resource).

Thankyou, Elrohwen, that's excellent advice. Our vet mentioned a de-wormer to kill the migratory parasite that strikes the brain, of EC. The thing is, as you know, the de-wormer could have a negative effect on the liver. Another med our vet mentioned was kepra which I believe also can have negative effect on the liver. I will raise all these factors with our vet and also try to contact Linda. Thanks, again.

Did the Vet say how would the liver be damaged? Any % on the risks?

Elrohwen, Thank you for this new info. It is helpful to know that she said phenobarbitol WOULD NOT be the best treatment if EC is found to be the cause. Our vet mentioned that phenobarbitol is one of the meds that she would consider if EC was the cause, so I'm going to need to confirm this with her. In any case, I appreciate your help and information, thanks.

With E.C. the parasite can leave the body but leave damage - often neurological. Perhaps your vet considers using this med(phenobarbital) to treat the after effects of EC? i.e.seizures. The other meds I mentioned are antiparasitic meds. Panacur is common, but there may be other meds now that have proven better in regard to the liver.

I guess I see your vets concern in giving seizure meds. You(vet & you) have to weigh up long term medicating and it's side effects v's not medicating depending on the frequency of the seizures and their effects.  This is on mananging the symptom, hopefully you can discern what is causing him to have them and go from there.

Jers, the last part of your post is very true. The seizure prone bun that I know still has them occasionally even with the meds and I think they were pretty bad before he was medicated. If Buddie only has seizures once in a long while, it might not be worth medicating for them if there are major side effects.

Thank you for this new info, jerseygirl, the more info i have about it, the better off for everyone.. And thanks, Elrohwen, for describing the living situation of the rabbit that is having the seizures. Sounds like the phenobarbitol has helped him and reduced the amount of his seizures. I had wondered about that. Thank you. Once in a long while is relative, as Buddie's second seizure came a few more days than 2 months after the first. Do you know how far apart the occurrence of seizures is in the the seizure prone bun that you were referring to?

Hmm, I really don't know how far apart his seizures are. From Linda's description I would guess once every few months, but she'll be able to tell you how many he was having originally and how many he's having now.

Thanks.

My Bunny really seems that was in a more serious condition (from what i can tell from what u described and what your Vet said). So keep your spirits up, it seems he can and will overcome this and with this much support and care i know he will.

Thank you, Walder, that's very kind of you. I'm without my glasses today and that makes things a little difficult.

Jerseygirl and Elrohwen, our vet confirmed for me today that the test that's hopefully done on Buddie for EC will be one time, not a second time after two weeks as you had mentioned. At least i put the question to her. I'm still waiting to speak to her about the other things you kindly pointed out, after which I will have a talk hopefully with Linda. Thank you.

Good luck with little Buddie! I really hope you at least get a firm diagnosis, so you can plan how to treat him.

Thanks, Elrohwen. The vet said the results of the testing he's hopefully going in for, might be inconclusive. But hopefully if it is a parasite, a de-wormer is available that doesn't pose risk to the liver. The remarkable thing to me is that the bun you referred to is on phenobarbitol and his liver is apparently ok with it. Our vet seems doubtful that it could be used without posing some harmful effect on the liver.

Linda did say that the vet didn't expect Cinnamon to live as long as he has (he's been on the meds for 5 years). So he could have liver damage that he is just living with.

I see. Thank you for pointing that out that possibility, I didn't think of that.

Can bunnies have milk thistle? I know that that helps to cleanse the liver.

Thank you, Carrot Lane Bunny! Certainly is worth asking - I appreciate your input and good thoughts.

Just wondering how you & Buddy are doing?

Thanks for asking - and caring - Sage Cat. I just called Linda today because I had lost my glasses and only just recovered them today. I did as much research as I could and called her and she hasn't called back. Will try again tomorrow. I got Buddie a bunny warren complete with interchange cube (for connecting the 3 tunnels, i.e. bunny warrens, and now he's galloping through those. I like the plastic better than the 3-way nylon tunnel he had, because he was gnawing on the nylon and had chewed parts of it down to the reinforcing wire. The plastic I think/hope he will leave alone and just gallop through. Other than that he's his perky self, inquisitive and curious about everything, every noise, the furniture he can't get at etc. He's eating cilantro, romaine, red leaf lettuce, Italian parsley, hay and pellets with occasional banana, apple one or two cherries, and a small segment of orange. Knock on wood, he's pooping normally. I wonder if he's getting enough water, I had several different waterbottles and he seemed to give up his prior-favorite as well, I have a bowl/fountain for him but he seems to mostly ignore it not to mention i'm always picking the hay out that he deposits in there. I'd hate for him to turn up dehydrated one day, but all I can do is make the water available and hope he's getting enough. He seems healthy as a clam, all in all, except for the water mystery, and you'd never know there might be a parasite lurking that apparently strikes the brain at random, if it is a parasite. I hope I'll get to talk to Linda, and Linda will talk to me, and then talk to our vet and then hopefully bring him in for the parasite test. Thanks...

Hey there! I'm sure Linda will get back to you at some point. I saw her yesterday and meant to tell her to look for your call, but she was with some potential adopters and by the time I left she had gone to run errands. Unfortunately, her own seizure bun passed away just a few days ago :-(

A lot of the seizure meds can cause liver problems, but you can also minimize it by careful dosing. My son takes 2, depakote and lamictal and we keep a close watch on his weight. Our neurologist worked to get a dose that was just enough to control the seizures, but not excessive so it wouldn't build up to much iin his liver. He does a blood test every 6 months so we know if it's staying withing a safe range. You can have a moderate level without it causing damage.

But if Michael's weight goes up or down 10 lbs it does have an effect on how much is being stored in the liver and we shave or increase the amounts just a bit to compensate.

I know it's a terrible condition to deal with, hang in there. ((((((anti seizure vibes)))))))

Linda called yesterday and as you know, Elrohwen, she's very nice. Yes, Cinnamon passsed away a few days ago, but Linda said it might have been a heart attack, she's not sure what it was from. She advised not giving Buddie Phenobarbitol because the two seizures he's had were about two months apart. Linda said Cinnamon was having 2-3 seizures daily so he warranted the use of the Phenobarbitol. She did recommend giving Buddie fenbendazole. She said Cinnamon is not a lionhead but doubts Buddie's being a Lionhead has much to do with causing the seizures. Linda is quite sure Cinnamon's seizures were caused by E. Cunniculi. She also doesn't believe fenbendazole having caused bone marrow damage in some rabbits outweighs the benefit of giving it. Thank you, Elrohwen.

Thank you, kralspace for your information, it is very beneficial to me. This is the first it's been brought to my attention that the drugs are stored in the liver and that's how they effect it, I appreciate your letting me know that. Our vet mentioned giving any anti-seizure medications in small doses also and keeping an eye on the liver. I also believe there is a test that can be done to monitor the liver for rabbits. Thanks for the anti-seizure vibes. I wish the best to you and Michael, will say some prayers for the good health of both of you.

I wish the best of health...and happiness, to everyone who has written in or checked in, and to their bunnies and pets!

((((((((((more vibes!!)))))))))))))

Thank you, Monkeybun, keep'em comin.' I just spoke to our vet. Buddie had another 3rd seizure 2/28 1:30 am. We're starting Panacur treatment. The vet said the testing for parasite is often inconclusive and the expense of it doesn't seem to be justified to her. So we're just starting the Panacur without testing. Our vet also is going to try to come up with a dosage in rabbits for milk thistle. She confirmed that milk thistle is beneficial to keeping the liver normal. Thanks again, Carrot Lane Bunny! And blood tests can be done to monitor the liver. Thank you again Elrohwen and Jerseygirl for pointing me to the right questions to ask. Thank you Elrohwen, again for putting me in contact with Linda. Thank you everyone else for your input and being there.

I wish all the best of health for Buddie and that he is cured of his illness quickly! ((((((healing vibes))))))))

Oh poor Buddie. I hope something works for him soon!

WOW I don't know how I missed this!! I'm so sorry-but sounds like your vet is great and open to suggestions {{{{{{{{{{Buddie}}}}}}}}}}}

Thank you, MimzMum, Monkeybun, and Kokaneeandkahlua for your vibes...I've been down myself with the stomach flu the past couple days and am picking up the Panacur tomorrow. Hope Buddie takes the stuff squirted into a bit of banana-- that's the hope. He's a beastie about having stuff squirted into his mouth. Otherwise, he seems to be okay, knock on wood. Barreling through his tunnels at all hours of the day, munching cilantro, romaine lettuce, hay and pellets. Thanks...good health vibes to you and your bunnies and pets, everyone.

Day 1 with Panacur: I made more than one small hole in the bit of banana, I did it in two bits of banana with the tine of a fork to make the holes, then I squirted the Panacur which looks like milk, and filled up the holes, then replaced a bit of banana over it to cover up the hole. He took it right off and I heard him smacking his lips over it and munching it and I thought I was in the free and clear. Then I discovered that he hadn't eaten all of it, so apparently he did spit it out, but a few minutes later, i saw him seem to pick up what was on the floor and he munched that down I guess. So I guess, all in all, he got his dosage, unless it squirted out onto the floor which it doesn't look like, but I didn't look that close. SIGH I HOPE he got his dosage. I have 29 more tries to perfect my technique with the banana - he needs to take it once a day for 30 days. I hope I have enough, it's an awfully tiny bottle. Well, I'll just hope for the best. Tomorrow, I'll try three holes in three bits of banana. I'll just have to become a master of disguise... Disguising the taste, that is!