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BINKYBUNNY FORUMS > BONDING > From Trio to Quartet
Last Post by Petzy at 02/22/2010 12:07 PM (35 Replies)
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User is Offline Petzy
Northern AB Canada
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01/27/2010 01:17 PM

For reference I link the bonding of my trio here: www.binkybunny.com/FORUM/tabid/54/a...fault.aspx

Neigey's bonding to my trio was fun for me. It was refreshing to meet a little rabbit that is somewhat flexible, enough so to bounce back after a negative encounter.  This is why it didn't take as long as it might have. It took about 6 weeks until I could move them in together for cementing. Neigey had to meet each of my trio's members individually since together the trio was a united front against him.  I held a few dates between Neigey and each rabbit from my trio to determine who I would pair him up with first. edit: I had Neigey meet each one of my trio when he was a 3-month old kit but my three were not at all fond of him.

Mops only had attacking in mind when seeing Neigey, while Lint turned completely stoic in his presence, so to boykot the entire process once more, and I ended up selecting Deirdra.

I used the bathtub for their first meetings. Deirdra was very clear on who she was toward Neigey: she was not interested in him but kept him at bay whenever his initial curiosity made him advance toward her. They fought in the tub briefly which left young Neigey in shock.

Deirdra was busy eating, grooming, pottying, sleeping but would not allow Neigey anywhere close to her. Deirdra did never try to mount Neigey which is odd for her, she mounts everybunny else.

Neigey was terrified of her. This was the best hiding spot he could come up with: 

Deirdra was very pleased she scared the curiosity out of him.

Because of Neigey's fear he became very stressed, and he would growl at me when I would come and get him out of his cage for bonding time. So I held a few sessions with him huddled up on my lap and Deirdra flopped out beside me munching treats. It seemed to make him calmer as he was bonded to me and liked the comfort.

They didn't fight again. Neigey understood that she was the boss and luckily he is faster than her. He would just run off from then on in, and so I was able to move them to a larger space where they spent long daily sessions with each other.

I confined them together in the beginning of each sessions for about 20 minutes inside an NIC cube to force them to be touching one another. This was helpful to me too because the cube is easy to take on a car ride, or around the house. it sort of became my portable bonding unit.

They hated it but it helped get them closer.

As the sessions in the room became longer and longer and they were able to stay in that space without chasing each other, I started small sessions between Lint and Neigey...

I will post more of that.

Photobucket "what happened? did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?"

User is Online Sarita
(Dallas)
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01/27/2010 01:34 PM
Poor little dude. That's sad that he growled at you but I'm glad you were persistent, not many people would be. I'll be looking forward to reading more.

User is Offline mrmac
San Diego, CA
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01/27/2010 01:34 PM
Neigey is so little! I love that picture of Neigey on your lap and Deirdra laying next to you!
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User is Offline rosalie68
Iowa, USA
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01/27/2010 02:42 PM
thank u so much petzy! i was wondering.... how much do they both weigh? looks like a big size difference. i know size doesnt matter but some people think that since one of the girls is 9 lbs and my boys are 4 lbs that this will be hard on the little guys. im so excited to read all about your bonding. you have given me hope and reassurance! thank u for taking time to help me and share your experience!

kim
Kim ---> Charlie & Jack, Julia, Zoey, & Ross

User is Offline MarkBun
Richmond, CA
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01/27/2010 02:57 PM
Okey, I know it's sad but it is so cute/funny seeing Neigy trying to hide from Deidre by hiding behind the drain fop.
My bonding quest with Maryann - Read about a less than easy bonding with two buns - but they did bond!

User is Online Monkeybun
Hillsboro, Oregon
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01/27/2010 03:35 PM
I like the cube idea, I've been hunting for a better carrier for my 2 to be in for car rides, but the ones at the pet store are usually in bad shape from people playing around with them. I have some leftover grids and connectors, so maybe I'll build a cube thing too Thanks for the idea!

And I agree with MarkBun.. Neigey hiding there is kinda funny Poor little dude!

User is Offline Petzy
Northern AB Canada
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01/28/2010 10:23 AM

A larger rabbit is harder to stop in an attack. They are more powerful. Before each session make a plan as to how you are going to stop the rabbits if they want to fight.

Deirdra and Neigey didn't cement a bond as a pair but they came to an understanding. Deirdra called the shots. She got first dibs on everything and secondly Neigey was not supposed to get too close. Neigey's curiosity got him in trouble with the second rule but he kept coming back like a bouncy ball. In the beginning Deirdra chased him but she gave it up over time.

www.youtube.com/watch

www.youtube.com/watch

Neigey whinced and thumped a lot during this phase

www.youtube.com/watch

www.youtube.com/watch

Neigey is the first bunny I bonded that binkied in the sesions

www.youtube.com/watch

I started Neigey with Lint. Lint played plushy in a corner while Neigey hopped about in a spacey manner wondering what to do.

I switched them to confined sessions. The cube...

suspended

nippy....

 

on top of the washer during a spin cycle

After daily sessions like these I tried them out in the big room.

Neigey plucked Lint and growled, chased, and generally disrespected him. Lint really disliked Neigey by then.

 

Lint designated for himself a time-out zone on the bed where he would not permit Neigey.

See the tense body language even in a flop on the bed.

I went back to confined sessions. I held several meetings between them in a puppy crate not expecting too much but bonding is always a surprise...

It was a breakthrough.

www.youtube.com/watch

www.youtube.com/watch

Lint tolerated Neigey's dominance.

Photobucket "what happened? did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?"

User is Offline Petzy
Northern AB Canada
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01/28/2010 11:30 AM

This is a video of Lint and Neigey on top of my washing machine during the spin cycle. This is really stressful for rabbits, more than car rides, I found.

www.youtube.com/watch

Photobucket "what happened? did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?"

User is Online Sarita
(Dallas)
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01/28/2010 11:36 AM
So, how many hours a day did you spend on bonding them?

User is Offline Petzy
Northern AB Canada
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01/28/2010 11:47 AM

I would start at 4 in the afternoon and go sometimes to midnight.

Here is a clip of Lint and Neigey in a new pen I had put up for them in the corner of the room so that Lint would not be able to avoid Neigey any longer, but still have some space to run off. Lint was really trying to get away from this little white nuisance that Neigey was during his overexcitement period.

www.youtube.com/watch

Photobucket "what happened? did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?"

User is Online Sarita
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01/28/2010 11:51 AM
For how many weeks?

User is Offline Petzy
Northern AB Canada
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01/28/2010 11:55 AM
For 6 weeks until I built a new pen for the four to cement in.
Photobucket "what happened? did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?"

User is Online Sarita
(Dallas)
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01/28/2010 11:57 AM
You have alot more stamina that I do :~)

User is Online Monkeybun
Hillsboro, Oregon
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01/28/2010 12:04 PM
Heh in that last video Neigey is following Lint with an expression like "What did I do? I just wanna be friends!"

User is Offline Petzy
Northern AB Canada
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01/29/2010 08:53 AM

I don't know if Neigey knew what he wanted. He was so excited over Lint that invariably if Lint didn't run off, Neigey would pinch Lint all over and poke him with his nose and teeth.

He got angry at me in this video because I wouldn't let him bite Lint over and over.

I joined Deirdra in with them at that point. I cut the size of the pen in half so they had to share a small space without forming 'camps'.

Neigey stopped the incessant advances towards Lint and spent the sessions dashing back and forth between him and Deirdra. Lint and Deirdra ignored him.

During the sessions of Neigey, Lint & Deirdra I kept Mops in Neigey's cage.

Mops was shocked at first when smelling Neigey on Lint and Deirdra when they were reunited in their condo after the sessions, and Neigey appeared frightened going into his cage to find long angora hairs from Mops.

I started Neigey with Mops then. Mops lunged at Neigey in the bathtub repeatedly even if Neigey played plushy. -- I switched them to the dry sink (drain closed so no feet can get caught).

I moved from sink sessions to motion stress on top of my running dryer...

Mops nippy on car rides, too...

I set them up eventually in my deck corner to see where they were at. Mops was unchanged, ramming Neigey.

Plus, the arctic cold snap hiit us and it was too cold to be outside at all. So I moved the snow into my tub hoping it would break the ice between them... Mops loves snow more than anything. I thought it would be a positive distraction. See how incredibly scared Neigey was by then.

I thought things were picking up but I was wrong. Mops had fooled me.

So it was back to more close sessions in the cube sitting on my lap with lots of stroking and calming down. During this time I focused solely on those two because their relationship was so problematic.

I needed a larger space where they hadn't been before to test if Mops' attitude was changing with time and sessions. Here they are in my dogs' cage and this was when I knew they were on their way to bonding!

Notice how close they get wiithout Mops attacking.

 

 

Photobucket "what happened? did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?"

User is Offline Petzy
Northern AB Canada
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01/29/2010 09:05 AM
*I should add that I let Mops 'loose' on Neigey knowing that his attacks always resulted in plucking some fur off Neigey as you can see in the Winterpatio clip. He actually ate Neigey's fur. He never broke the skin on Neigey because his ram-into attacks were enough to scare Neigey off.
Photobucket "what happened? did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?"

User is Offline MirBear
Kitchener, Ont. Ca.
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01/29/2010 09:27 AM
he actually ATE neigey's fur????
My Siamese Sweethearts, Hershey & Twix........... <3 And In My Attempted Un-selfish Thoughts I Find Myself Thinking... If This Is The Best I Can Do With Just My Thoughts, Than What Is The Best That Can Be Done By Someone Who Has Not Only my Thoughts But The Chance To Make Them A Reality?

User is Offline Petzy
Northern AB Canada
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01/29/2010 09:31 AM

Mops was chewing something every time he nipped at Neigey. He never spit it out and there were holes in Neigey's coat -- so, yes, he ate his fur. Mops chews hair in general, could be because he has angora furnishings.

But it's all good now.

Photobucket "what happened? did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?"

User is Online Monkeybun
Hillsboro, Oregon
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01/29/2010 01:44 PM
I have hope now that my 2 will give in. I'm going to build me a grid cube and tell the hubby to get to it. I'm tired of my babies not getting along.

User is Offline jerseygirl
Australia
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01/29/2010 08:00 PM

So far I have only read/viewed the D&N and L&N sessions.   I just wanted to make one comment on what I've seen so far...

Neigey is such a teenager!

I survived the BB site update 2012

User is Offline Petzy
Northern AB Canada
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02/01/2010 08:28 AM

Once Mops had quit charging at Neigey, I had Neigey meet my old trio of Deirdra, Lint and Mops together.

It was a freeze-out. Neigey stuck at the sidelines.

I continued the paired sessions, especially between Mops and Neigey for another week. I had them on the couch with me at night, in the NIC cube with me in my office, and pretty much anywhere around the house. Neigey was afraid of Mops and wouldn't be able to mingle with the trio until he overcame this fear.

I held stress sessions on my stairs that had helped me in the past with Clifford and Valmore because of the steps functioning as levels of escape. The stairs are only safe to use once a hierarchy has been worked out. If your rabbits are still wanting to fight the stairs are a bad idea.

Eventually, I was able to graduate Neigey to being in a pen with the trio. It had to be smalll enough for him to blend with them, but big enough for him to get away if he panicked.

The trio let him be.

I made the pen smaller. Neigey was still shaking in his boots when Mops came close.

It was time to cement them; they had to be left together to really bond. I took down my trio's condo and put up another pen in a different spot in my basement.

Mops and Neigey never had problems again which really surprised me.

Neigey was fully integrated with everybunny.

Poowars are ongoing....

 in closing I will link the bonding of a different quartet here that was harder to do.

www.binkybunny.com/FORUM/tabid/54/a...fault.aspx

 

Photobucket "what happened? did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?"

User is Offline Petzy
Northern AB Canada
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02/01/2010 08:55 AM
Posted By jerseygirl on 01/29/2010 09:00 PM

So far I have only read/viewed the D&N and L&N sessions.  

 

Jersey, I took your advice and avoided using initials this time for my write-up. It was confusing the last time around.... so why are you starting it now??

Photobucket "what happened? did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?"

User is Offline katiep
Ohio
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02/01/2010 10:14 AM

I just wanted to write in and tell you that I REALLY enjoyed reading your bonding process!  It was really great seeing the videos and the interactions between different types of bun personalities and that they CAN bond and get along!  I am having a hard time with a few buns who have big personalities and trying to let them interact worries me a bit because i'm afraid they will hurt each other!  It was reassuring to watch how long you let your buns circle or nip and to see with my own eyes that they are just fine and I know that the bunnies can pick up on my feelings.  It was also very helpful to see the different techniques you used and I am going to try a few myself!  I think my biggest problems are I am afriad of bunny fights, I "baby" them too much by breaking up fights too early and not letting them work things out, and i'm not being as consistant with bonding time, I only do every few days for like an hour....any other tips you have would be very helpful as it seems like you are a pro!!!  Thanks again for posting this!!!!


User is Online Monkeybun
Hillsboro, Oregon
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02/01/2010 03:03 PM
BRB, taking M&M up to canada for Petzy to bond them

User is Offline katiep
Ohio
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02/01/2010 03:08 PM

OOOO We want to come too!!  all 4 of us who need bonding here!!!!  Dont forget to bring the hay and raisins!!!


User is Online Monkeybun
Hillsboro, Oregon
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02/01/2010 03:26 PM
I think Monkey would kill me in my sleep if I forgot the raisins. She must be related to Maryanne somewhere down the line...

User is Offline Petzy
Northern AB Canada
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02/01/2010 03:28 PM
Monkey can eat Lint's raisins. he is dieting, remember?
Photobucket "what happened? did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?"

User is Online Monkeybun
Hillsboro, Oregon
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02/01/2010 03:32 PM
She will be pleased... I may live another day.

User is Offline jerseygirl
Australia
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02/01/2010 04:05 PM

Jersey, I took your advice and avoided using initials this time for my write-up. It was confusing the last time around.... so why are you starting it now??

Because I'm lazy.    Did I tell you not to do that?  Geez, I'm bossy!

 

I survived the BB site update 2012

User is Online Monkeybun
Hillsboro, Oregon
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02/02/2010 01:38 AM
Petzy, who went into the cube first, Mops or Neigey? I'm unsure whether to put Monkey or Moose into the cube first... Monkey can be feisty, but it seems that Moose is the more aggressive of the 2 during sessions, even though Monkey has definitely expressed wanting to be dominant.
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