Hello again.

I'm starting a new thread because we're in a new stage and I'm no longer losing my mind.

Quincy and Beulah no longer fight and I can let them have play time together now.  I don't think they're friends yet, though.  Quincy still chases Beulah and I'm not sure what his intentions are.  Rarely, Beulah seems to treat it as a game, but mostly she just tries to get away from him.  If Quincy follows Beulah into her cage she lets him, and that's when he tries to mount her.  She's let him a few times, but lately when she submits he bites her rump, which just annoys her and drives her off.  I have no idea what the point of this is for him, since it obviously is not endearing to her.

What can I do now to help them be friends?  Is this kind of a hands-off stage, or is there more I can do to hlep them along?

Thanks!

I don't think they are hard nips, more slow and deliberate, if that makes sense... I'm sure they would break my skin, but through the fur it doesn't look like it would hurt much.

I'm sure it's at least partly territorial, but he doesn't get mad if she's in his cage. They both chin each other's stuff. I hope I'm not doing the wrong thing by allowing them in each other's space, but it seems better than shutting the doors while they're out (they both get panicky if they can't go "home" when they want) and as long as they're not fighting over cages I thought it might be good for them if they got their scents mixed together.

I took them on a very long car ride today. For most of it they were very still. Quincy was facing me but squished up the side of the carrier by Beulah, who faced the opposite direction. There was no fighting and maybe just a few "words" exchanged during the first few minutes. When I got home I put the carrier on the floor and opened the door, but they stayed squished together for a few minutes before realizing they were free.

It know I was in trouble with them, but it was still funny to see them both come out of the cage flicking their feet. After being rejected a few times by Beulah, Quincy behaved very oddly by loafing up in a corner instead of romping around. He even let me pick him up to put him in the cage, giving me several seconds before struggling! Before I went out I swapped cages so Beulah is in Quincy's and vice versa.

Hopefully if I keep doing this it will help. I've been having to ask the tough question of whether we can all live together like this if they don't bond. Truly I haven't given up, but not only has this situation created a ton of stress for me, but I think it's unfair to Beulah because as long as she dislikes Quincy she can't really feel free to roam around. I feel horrible for even thinking of it, but it's been a good eight months and I told the shelter when we began that this would not work if they don't bond. Has anyone had to deal with something like that? :-(

Edit:  Oh, this was cute.  Beulah has mostly been running away as usually, but they were both flopped about three feet from each other for a while.  Beulah slowly got up, approached Quincy, just barely touched his nose, and then turned around and bounded off before he could react.

I do want to do that!  I thought it might be too soon to count on them share, though, so  I'm looking at my floor space to see how I can make something big enough that they both have room if I have to stick a divider in there sometimes (so 4 to 5 cubes wide would be fair, I guess).  I'm definitely building a little condo for Beulah tonight though.  She's been staying in my travel cage, but it's got a plastic tray over the metal cage base, which makes an explosive sound when she stomps.  Woke me up out of a dead sleep last night. :-/

Posted By Battie on 03/08/2010 11:12 AM

 I'm looking at my floor space to see how I can make something big enough that they both have room if I have to stick a divider in there sometimes  I'm definitely building a little condo for Beulah tonight though. 

no. this will make the territory wars start all over. You need to take the plunge to make them share a space completely without ever giving one of them the opportunity to claim it individually. If you think it's too soon, then wait and keep up the sessions. If they don't fight now you should move them in together but without dividers. You could try it at night when you're home and then put them back into their respective cages for the day while you're out.

Ah, okay.  I think I can make room for all that... Wish me luck!

Here's a rough picture of the new cage.  I'd show more but I haven't really cleaned up after the construction.   Beulah is the white and grey one and Quincy is the brown one.  I'm not so sure the hammock instead of a shelf was a good idea yet.  I'm watching it for safety issues.  Light jumps are fine but panicky jumps show potential for tangling.

I bought a new box of NICs to expand what I had.  Boy was I annoyed to open it up and find that FIFTEEN of the 23 pieces were those useless ones with the wide grids.  Had I looked at the box more carefully I'd have seen it, but in the store looked like only six were like that. :-/ 

Battie, that Qunicy is one beautiful rabbit! What nice coloring he is.

The cage size you chose will force them to interact, the initial move-in is stressful and can create a small panic. It is very important that you interpret the activities: if they seem to be in a state of mutual freeze-out, just rigid staring, it is likely a fight will ensue. If they just ignore one another and occasionally scurry away from each other, even with a tuft of fur flyimg -- it is fine, keep them together. In the photo you posted I can see they are uncomfortable with the new situation and, like you said, keeping a distance. However, the good news is that they are turned toward one another and this gives me much hope that it will work out.

Well, obviously you made a decision last night to leave them together or not... how did it go?

How many litterboxes are in there?

--I wish I could get those wide square grids, I have not seen them to buy here. I kind of like them. They would make a nice top for a cage and also great hay racks... Or, you can use them to build a play tunnel in the shape of an inverted V.

Awww, he says thank you!

There's just one big litterbox. I thought two might take too much space. I went to bed with them together, but woke up around 2 to the sound of a scuffle that seemed to be escalating. I moved them to separate cages, but maybe I shouldn't have (it was a decision made half awake). But they are back together now and not doing badly.

Edit:  Food seems to be a good motivator tonight.  Earlier they were eating from the rack together.  Now Quincy is sprawled in the same position as in the photo, but Beulah is standing over him eating.  If she puts her paws down she'll step on his head!

There's still some nipping every now and then, but it's much calmer and I'm feeling hopeful!

:-D

After I get things cleaned up before the weekend I'll be sure to post some. I hope this holds together!

Edit:  I hope I didn't sound reckless by leaving them alone today.  I wouldn't have done it if I hadn't seem them acting so well, really!

Oh my gosh!  I know I said I didn't want to take photos till I had a chance to clean (you can see below I didn't even get to sweep up today) but I was so shocked I had to snap this!

Quincy was flopped over first (he really likes that corner).  Beulah came up to him and settled  down right there.  I couldn't believe it, considering she usually treats him like he has bunny cooties!  She got up to eat while I was loading the picture but then she did it again.