I feel quite disappointed with myself tonight and hope I haven't rushed them too much and caused a bigger set back!

Could it be Miranda wants Ariel to groom her and got annoyed when she didn't, so gave her a "hint"?

Posted By boogercj on 04/15/2010 02:12 PM
 (...) Over the last few weeks the nipping has subsided and has become slower and more predictable, rather than nipping they have been sort of nudging. Miranda was doing a lot of this today and Ariel just turned around and started grooming her!

Should we keep up what we've been doing so far or would it be a good idea to try a long session?(...)

Yes, try longer and longer. Predictability of actions is a very promising sign, because not only can you predict these nips/nudges, but also the other rabbit.

Thanks Petzy. We did a longer session tonight in the same box and guess what? Miranda was demanding grooming and grooming is what she got. It seems like our earlier suspicions have been confirmed, in that the overtly aggressive nipping has given way to a kind of "give me what I want now" nip/nudge combo.  It's taken a lot of trust on our part to allow them to do this, as it's been hard not to interviene when they edge towards each other and it looks like things could go either way.

Anyway, it's the same thing I get when I'm sitting on the floor and happen to get in Miranda's way. She gives me a nudge and then a nip to tell me to get out of her way, and it's exactly the same. Funny thing is Ariel acqiecsed and groomed Miranda for a good 10 minutes. She also nudged her head under Miranda's, clearly asking her to repay the favour but to no avail. It seems Miranda has somehow managed to assert her dominance and is enjoying Lording (well, Ladying really)  it up. She gave Ariel a token lick on the nose, but that's it! So rude! I guess that's bunnies though, and it warms our hearts that they may have finally sorted out some kind of agreement and hierarchy.

So, we've had 2 sessions in the box full of hay now where there's been no signs off aggression, just assertion of dominance and grooming. We've definitely turned a corner and it looks like we may be able to move them in together soon

So, what's made them suddenly decide they want to be friends? Well, in the last 2 weeks we have:

Taken them for a trip to Devon for Easter weekend, where they spent 3 hours each way in a box together, in the car.

Moved bonding sessions from the bathroom floor, into a storage box filled with hay.

Swapped pens every other night (only for the last week).

Been much more consistent, doing bonding most nights, with the occasional break.

I guess this might be useful information to anyone in the process of bonding 2 bunnies. We were definitely at the stage where we were wondering if they were ever going to be friends and it just seemed liek we were wasting our time. But I think perseverence and using things we'd learned from the excellent people on this forum have paid off and we're well on the way to having bunnies that will live and thrive together.

Sorry if reading this has been a mission, but I've had a couple glasses of wine and it's been a week of triumphs (Don;t worry, I won't go into all of it!) , and it's great to be able to share postitive experiences

Ok so we tried them in the hallway, big mistake! As soon as we put them down they decided to totally ninja each other! We think the prob is the hallway is semi neutral as both buns go there seperately for playtime and may be still willing to fight over it territorially?! We put them back in their bonding box and they were parfect Miranda even groomed Ariel for a bit! looks like we're still going to have to take it slow. They are fine in a cofined neutral space but how do we get rid of this territoriallity?

Also, I don't think they've quite sorted out who's boss yet. Ariel is definitely more inclined to groom Miranda, but they often have these moments where they are both demanding grooming at the same time. Ariel will usually acquiesce, but I think it might be a litlle begrudgingly, and she always wants to be groomed back in return, usually to no avail.

I see, so really not a good idea to use the exercise space until they are fully bonded then?

Niether of them have been into the spare room and we've used the bedroom just for bonding before. Might try a long session in the spare room this weekend, in between having barbecues and soaking up the sun .

barbecues and soaking up the sun .

Hehe! We live in Portsmouth, on the south coast and as the temperature goes above double figures and the sun comes out, everyone goes nuts!  We've had 2 barbecues already this year! To be fair, it's been an especially long, cold winter for us so I think everyone's just stoked that it's getting nice and "warm" again

Update.

We've been using the "bonding box" now for what seems like 3 weeks with only a couple of days off. Things have reached a really interesting stage.

As soon as they got in the box, Ariel started grooming Miranda for a couple of minutes. Miranda has become really demanding and pretty much wants to be groomed all the time. We did a 45 minute session today and Miranda didn't groom herself, eat hay or anything. She seemed completely focussed on being groomed! A couple of times she decided she'd give Ariel a token lick for about  15 seconds but only after being really pushed by Ariel. I know that Miranda is gaining the upper hand as top bunny, but Ariel just isn't quite ready to relinquish all the power it seems .

Miranda also tried to hump Ariel's face about 3 times as well. All 3 times we stopped her and only once did Ariel try to chase her away (it's a small box so it's not really chasing, but you know what I mean!). So, I gather we have to let the humping continue, as long as it's not in the face, and as long as Ariel doesn't get upset and start nipping. Having had a good read of Elrohwen's thread it seems we should maybe let it go on for 20 seconds or so and then calm each bunny down by stroking.

As you may be able to tell, we're a little reluctant to move on from the box, as we've had the most success with it, but we're going to move onto the bathtub I think. A small step, but it will give them about 5 times more space and should give Ariel a bit more breathing room away from her demanding sis! . It's been about 4 months now but I feel we're finally getting there, slowly but surely.

Cheers!

Hey folks, been a while but we finally managed to get a video of box-bonding! Enjoy

One question, is it perfectly acceptible to cement in a neutral space? Then deep clean the area where they both normally live (their pens are next to each other and we swap them every other night) and move them into that area?

Yes. In fact, I think this would be the ideal scenario. I seem to remember Petzy saying this was important so hopefully she or others will check in and confirm. So when you set up the new neutral area for the 3 days, keep in mind it may become the cementing pen. So you'll want it somewhere you can keep an ear out for them. I don't know if this would help or not, but try covering some sides of the pen so it feels a little like the bonding box that they do well in. Just a thought.

Wossnames? ?? lol

Thanks for replying Petzy!

Well we've added willow mats, which seem to work fine. They're being sooooo cute right now and sitting right next to each other, having a go at the mat , and they really seem to be enjoying sitting together.

We're (well, I say "we", this is the bunnies' Daddy posting now, and Mummy has sat with them almost the whole time whilst I've been at work) now into hour 36   of this epic session and it looks like we might just have this thing sorted. I think Anita is going to go shopping for a couple of hours tomorrow afternoon, which will be a few hours after the 48 hour mark. Fingers crossed they're going to be cool.