Monkeybun 
Hillsboro, Oregon
Posts: 8883
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| 12/26/2009 05:16 PM |
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Day 1: Ooooh boy, they don't like each other right now. They are fine separated int heir pens where they can see each other and smell each other, but not touch each other, but man oh man, put the 2 together in the kitchen and the fur started flying.
Monkey, of course, wants to be the dominant one. But now that Moose has settled in, he isn't sure about that. He kept whirling around when Monkey shoved her face into his side to get ready to mount,a nd nipped at her, which made her nip back, and so on. I made sure to be wearing a pair of mittens so I could separate em. Good thing too! I only had them in the kitchen for about 2 minutes before I had to separate them again and put them back in their pens... this isn't gonna be an instant bond! My hubby is discouraged, but I'm sure they will sort it out, I switched their bears, so they have each others bears and scent to deal with. Moose has already licked Monkey's bear, he's a grooming machine when he's in his pen.
Tomorrow, will be Day 2 of the Adventures of Monkey and Moose! |
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Monkeybun
Hillsboro, Oregon
Posts: 8883
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| 12/26/2009 11:17 PM |
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They ahve both groomed the bears now, so thats a good sign! Hopefully they'll play nice tomorrow  |
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jerseygirl
Australia
Posts: 11348
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| 12/26/2009 11:45 PM |
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Let's hope. Have you tried them together in one of the pens? I realise that isn't neutral, it's just that I can imagine Monkey looking about in Mooses pen then plonking herself down and that's that.\
Edit to add: This isn't "bonding advice" I'm just curious to know if you've done something like that with them is all. |
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Monkeybun
Hillsboro, Oregon
Posts: 8883
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| 12/26/2009 11:58 PM |
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Nope, haven't tried either of the pens, just the kitchen so far  |
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Lintini
Bay Area, California
Posts: 3329
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| 12/27/2009 01:50 AM |
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Ah Les, I know everything will work out, I mean sheesh this is a hard thing but I know only the best things will come of this! She adored him before, give her time again! Well, maybe I should tell this to your hubby!!! Keep those updates coming, even though I can't help much since my 2 are separate, but I'll keep cheering you on. POM POMS READY!!! |
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Monkeybun
Hillsboro, Oregon
Posts: 8883
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| 12/27/2009 02:41 AM |
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We'll keep at it every day, try a couple different things to see what works with them. I'm thinking that the neutral area might not be the best idea, as Monkey instantly wants every area to be hers, so maybe if its familiar she'll be more relaxed... who knows. |
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RabbitPam
 Forum Leader
Florida
Posts: 8555
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| 12/27/2009 04:46 AM |
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MonkeyBun, be sure to read up on some of the bonding posts to get a really good list of options and what to expect at what stage.
I was particularly impressed by Beka's bonding process with Meadow and Max. She'd had Meadow (Queen of her roost) for a year before bringing home Max. The most ingenious and successful technique she used was putting them in a basket on her dryer to simulate car rides. I urge you to find her post in the Bonding section and just read her saga. It was amazing. And even with that very successful bond, it took several weeks, so day two is just the very beginning.
No one tried harder than Markus with Maryanne and Dono. He finally used a bonding expert but even those two eventually bonded, so it is rarely hopeless.
Read his too. (Although his saga can get discouraging. Maybe read it in a couple of months if you're having problems.)
Mittens are good. Also keep a water squirt bottle with you. And a mesh strainer is good to put between their faces if they get biting to break it up.
I've refrained from giving much advice in bonding since I have only read about it, not done it. But I managed to learn a few tips here. Mostly, I've learned that if I ever try it I'm going to reread everything on the subject all over again and pray a lot!
{{{{{{{{{cupid's arrows for Monkey and Moose}}}}}}}}} |
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| Pamburger with a Little Sammykins on the Side. |
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Monkeybun
Hillsboro, Oregon
Posts: 8883
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| 12/28/2009 01:25 AM |
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Day 2: Today we tried having a meeting in Monkey's pen.. where she is most comfortable, and we didn't have to aggravate her by picking her up. Moose was fine, was curious about everything, but made no move to mark anything. Monkey was fine at first... and then lunged and started attacking poor Moosie. We scooted Monkey into her cage after that, and Moose wandered her pen for a minute or 2 before going to sniff Monkey through her bars. THAT she was totally fine with! She sniffed back, and didn't make a move to attack him at all. Just hopped along the cage wall as Moose hopped along the outside of it.
Me and the hubby are totally convinced that Monkey is completely insane, thats all there is to it. She's nuts I tell ya. She's fine with Moose as long as there is a few bars in between them. Moose wants to be friends with her, she has forgotten she was the one that picked him to begin with. Ahh well. Tomorrow we'll try in Moose's pen just for the heck of it.
I have no intention of rushing the bond, thus why we keep trying new things.. we never know what Monkey may decide she likes, little nutter! |
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Lintini
Bay Area, California
Posts: 3329
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| 12/28/2009 01:37 AM |
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Let's just tie a carrot to Moose and see how it goes :p |
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Monkeybun
Hillsboro, Oregon
Posts: 8883
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bunnymum
PA
Posts: 592
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| 12/28/2009 02:35 PM |
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Good luck, Leslie! I think things will work out. I was really nervous about putting CoCo in with Valen - so I cleaned the cage from top to bottom and put CoCo in first to let her mark things. Next Valen and he hopped right up to her and groomed her. Keep trying - Monkey will hopefully cave and give in soon to Moose's cuteness |
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| BuNnY cRaZy |
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Monkeybun
Hillsboro, Oregon
Posts: 8883
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| 12/28/2009 10:17 PM |
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Day 3: Well, Moose's pen didn't turn out any better. Within 10 seconds Monkey was going all Bunnicula on him, so she went into her own pen immediately. It was worth a try anyway. Tomorrow we'll try one of the bathrooms, and perhaps I'll have the hubby stay near the door with the vacuum cleaner... Monkey is terrified of it. |
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Lintini
Bay Area, California
Posts: 3329
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| 12/28/2009 10:22 PM |
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Bunnicula!!! LOL!! Oh dear dear Monkey loo ... |
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Beka27
Forum Leader
Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
Posts: 12942
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| 12/29/2009 08:44 AM |
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Did you read the House Rabbit Network article yet? Or if you have... did you reread it, print it out, laminate it, hang it on the wall? I love that article. I swear I read it over and over and over when I was bonding. http://www.rabbitnetwork.org/articl...bond.shtml There are amazing tips in here. I just reread a few parts right now when I was finding the link, and there are some things even I have forgotten since I bonded MY M&M... For example, don't put them back in their cages after they fight. Separate them, let them settle down for a moment, and then put them together again. Putting them in their cages if giving them what they want, their own space. It is normal in the beginning to feel like they will NEVER bond, but the best thing you can do is KEEP AT IT. And start SMALL. Do you have a bathtub or small, neutral laundry room you can use for sessions? The first couple sessions I'd recommend that you only do car (or dryer) rides. Stress them out and see how they react when they are together. So much of bonding is "wearing them down", where you don't give them the option to get along or not... they MUST get along. Remember when you bond, neither are "top bun". Nope... not even Monkey. You need to be in charge, you need to be confident. You are going to tick them both off during bonding b/c they will not get their way... BUT you do it for the FINAL OUTCOME. A peaceful, harmonious home and a happy pair. |
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Meadow.....
...... Max |
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Monkeybun
Hillsboro, Oregon
Posts: 8883
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| 12/29/2009 04:08 PM |
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I HAD to separate them them yesterday, otherwise one or both would have gotten injured... they were not impressed. The other 2 times I put thm together I 'd just push them apart if they got mean, but yesterday I had to put Monkey back in her pen. She got scary O.o
We have a few places in the apartment neither have been, the bathroom is where we're trying today. |
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Petzy
Forum Leader
Northern AB Canada
Posts: 5938
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| 12/29/2009 05:39 PM |
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Posted By Monkeybun on 12/29/2009 04:08 PM
I HAD to separate them them yesterday, otherwise one or both would have gotten injured... they were not impressed. The other 2 times I put thm together I 'd just push them apart if they got mean, but yesterday I had to put Monkey back in her pen. She got scary O.o
We have a few places in the apartment neither have been, the bathroom is where we're trying today.
Monkey is OK with the bars between them because she knows Moose cannot invade her territory. Since you are dealing with a bit of aggression from your resident bunny right now, I would use forced closeness between them; meaning no room to run or chase. Have them on your lap and induce a forced snuggle as described in the house rabbit network article Beka posted. Car rides are also indicated at this stage, I would hold off with the bathroom right now. |
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 "what happened?
did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?" |
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Monkeybun
Hillsboro, Oregon
Posts: 8883
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| 12/29/2009 05:50 PM |
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Hmmm good point Petzy. Car rides aren't an option right now, with our cars being kinda worked on, and the snow that just decided to stop in, but the dryer is certainly available as a replacement. I'll see if I can't find a box aroudn big enough for the 2 of them. |
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Cassi&Charlie
Canberra
Posts: 1232
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| 12/29/2009 09:32 PM |
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I'm not really qualified to give much advice cause my buns bonded in a bit over two weeks so it wasn't a difficult bond (although I truly felt like it was at the time!) but I found myself spending very long hours in the shower with the two buns. It can get a bit cramped with one human and two feisty buns but everntually Charlie and Layla seemed to get bored with hating each other.
But don't forget, they can act entirely dfferent in neutral and semi-neutral territory! Charlie managed to get Layla in his territory (they're both escape artists) and pulled out a heck of a lot of hair, even though in neutral territory they were completely fine with each other.
Good luck, don't give up hope and print out that article Beka suggested, make it your bonding bible
ps - remember also that you know these bunnies really well so go with your instinct as well!
FYI - here are my two bonding posts. They're not very informative and are mostly me panicking but you may find something in there lol
binkybunny.com/FORUM/tabid/54/aff/1...fault.aspx
binkybunny.com/FORUM/tabid/54/aff/1...fault.aspx |
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| If computers get too powerful, we can organize them into a committee -- that will do them in.
Bradley's Bromide
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Beka27
Forum Leader
Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
Posts: 12942
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| 12/30/2009 09:29 AM |
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Markus also had success with just shaking the bunnies around in a box or carrier. The car is good b/c of the movement and noise, but the same can be accomplished with a dryer (noise and movement) or some have had success with running a vacuum the next room over... |
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| Meadow.....
...... Max |
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Monkeybun
Hillsboro, Oregon
Posts: 8883
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| 12/30/2009 03:09 PM |
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Well, last night we were gonna try the bathtub, as its a small area to keep the buns in and not as much room to try and run away. Moose is TERRIFIED of the bathtub. We ahd him in it for maybe 10 seconds before he started freaking out and trying his damndest to get out, which he couldn't cuz its so slippery, I was scared to death he'd hut himself, he was so scared. We hadn't even gotten Monkey in it yet. So bathtubs are a no go. I don't want to traumatize my poor guy, with the way he was scrambling, I was sure he'd snap a leg or his back he was so scared. So, we let him be for the rest of the evening. Today we're gonna move Monkey's pen to the living room or bathroom, and try a meeting in the pen made smaller, with me in the middle of it to make sure they behave. Then we'll put Monkey's pen back |
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jerseygirl
Australia
Posts: 11348
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| 12/30/2009 10:49 PM |
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Oh don't give up on the tub just yet - it's such a convenient space. Did you put a mat or towel down on the bottom? I didn't use one but I found being able to scoot them away on the slippery surface suited me. Also, when there was peeing, it was easy to clean up. Jersey made it super easy by just peeing straight down the drain - hehe.
You can also use the shower alcove (could get a bit cramped in there) or just bathroom or laundry with the door shut. |
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Monkeybun
Hillsboro, Oregon
Posts: 8883
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| 12/30/2009 10:58 PM |
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No, we didn't put a towel down at all. And we don't havea seperate shower stall, its all built into the tub |
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Beka27
Forum Leader
Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
Posts: 12942
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| 12/31/2009 09:00 AM |
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Try the tub again but put towels or a blanket down. Did you stress them beforehand? That was helpful for me... do a dryer ride and then put them in the tub when they're still disoriented.
You want to do at least 15-20 minutes a day, longer if possible, and do two sessions on your days off. With Max and Meadow, I did no less than one hour bonding sessions every single day. It's a major time commitment, but if you don't make it your main priority the weeks will stretch into months, and that's no fun for anybun. |
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| Meadow.....
...... Max |
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Monkeybun
Hillsboro, Oregon
Posts: 8883
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| 01/01/2010 01:29 AM |
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Yay! We had a non-nipping session today! We spent a good 15 minutes in a corner of the bathroom we blocked off with a baby gate, just me and M&M with my hubby standing by with the dustbuster for stress. Made the 2 of them snuggle on my lap, and no nipping happened! Once we get more into the swing of it, I'll get my hubby to video the sessions in small bits, so everyone can see the snuggles  We only had to turn on the dustbuster twice, once right at the beginning to shake them up a bit, and once halfway through when Monkey did a half hearted lunge. I'm so proud of my babies! Tomorrow, we'll do it again |
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Monkeybun
Hillsboro, Oregon
Posts: 8883
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| 01/02/2010 01:56 AM |
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Another successful session! We spent a good half hour in the bathroom with M&M tonite, with only 1 or 2 little mishaps, just tiny little reminders to Monkey from Moose that he has sharp things on his front. Nothign major tho, it went very well. Monkey did a little humping which Moose took, there was alot of face to face staring going on, we did get a bit of a video, I'll post it after its done uploading.
3 cheers to another good night! |
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Monkeybun
Hillsboro, Oregon
Posts: 8883
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| 01/02/2010 04:07 AM |
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Here's the video, sorry its kinda long, and not much happens, but they're not killing each other hehe. My hubby would have taped more, but my camera ran out of space.. bad me for clearing it off first....
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boogercj
Hampshire, UK
Posts: 118
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| 01/02/2010 01:46 PM |
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Cool, sounds like your making some progress. I'm checking your thread out every few days now to see how they're getting on. They seem to have reached a nice stalemate in your video. It makes me laugh when they just sit there and kind of stare each other out. It's damn nerve-wracking though; makes me really tense!  |
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| Bonding Ariel & Miranda - A daily diary
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Monkeybun
Hillsboro, Oregon
Posts: 8883
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| 01/02/2010 02:19 PM |
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Hehe yeah me too, I was so tense sitting there, was ready to pull them apart at any cranky move. I'm very proud of my bunnies tho, they were so good |
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Lintini
Bay Area, California
Posts: 3329
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| 01/04/2010 11:37 AM |
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I think we need to make some "bunny love potion" and put it all over MONKEY!!! What a little bratty girl! Look at those pinned back little dwarf ears!! When Bun makes those I get the heck out of her cage! They are really cute together though. I am glad there isn't any fighting I think she's saying "Mooooooom stop grooming me in front of the cute boy!!!. Ughhhhh!!" You know how your mom dropped you off at school in the morning and gives you a kiss in front of all your friends...yuck! At around 6min is that Moose trying to get her to groom him? Don't think monk monk is going for it...hehe. |
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Monkeybun
Hillsboro, Oregon
Posts: 8883
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| 01/04/2010 12:47 PM |
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Hehe yeah, Moose lets her hump the heck out of him, but he demands grooming himself. He has yet to groom Monkey... I have another video or 2 from last night's sessions, gonna upload them after I rest my knee from the latest attack by the doctor... lol. hate it when you go to a doc for pain, and they hurt it more |
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