blue eyed buns/post pics!

[Deleted User]

I have noticed recently that a few of the new additions to Binky Bunny are rabbits with blue eyes. So, if you have a rabbit with blue eyes post your picture here! I have taken the liberty to put Lintini’s baby bunny as well as new member viologirl’s Kizuna here to start off. And my Neigey, too.

–Bunnytowne: no red squares now! Picture of Cotton showing off his eyes please.

What’s her name now, Lintini? (nice matching rug BTW)

Kizuna (Did I get the name right?)

Neigey

Fluffybunny, what happened to the Blue-Eyed White you saw at the pet store for adoption? I noticed she is no longer listed on Petfinder.

 

 

[megan_ann]

Haha yeah it’s Kizuna…. I see the other bunnies with blue eyes are white… are there not a lot of black bunnies with blue eyes or is this just a coincidence?

Kizuna: “Get off my lawn!!!”

The first bun (Lit something? Wow I forgot her name already!!! ) is absolutely gorgeous!!!!!

[Sarita]

Many Dutch rabbits (like your rabbits marking) have blue eyes.

[kralspace]

My Lola does, I will try and get a photo where you can see them. Seems the only time I don’t get the ‘red eye’ from her is when she’s giving me the ‘stinkeye’

[megan_ann]

So that’s what she is! Dutch! I’m assuming she’s… broken black dutch holland lop? She has 4 colors… on top she’s mostly black with white down her nose and a few stray hairs on her back, and her underside is gray, and her paws are black (one is white) with a dark beige at the tips.
Oh oh oh can I ask one question? I’ve never had a bunny before so I don’t know… the fur at the tips of her paws is a completely different texture than the fur on the rest of her. It’s very bushy and thicker and coarser. Is this the case for all rabbits or just some?
I wanna see more cute rabbit pictures!!!!

[MarkBun]

The blue eye is due to something called the “Vienna Gene”. Like most genes, it is a matter of ‘the mix’ as to whether or not the color comes out. Mostly, the blue eyes were bred into white lionheads in order to produce the Blue-Eyed White (BEW). Due to many ‘rejects’ either not coming out completely white or not coming out with the blue eyes, these ‘rejects’ would be sold and eventually the color began to mix more into the general populace. It is still uncommon for a rabbit to have blue eyes but you can find them in just about every breed – although they tend to be found most often in lionhead or dutch breeds (dutch’s seem to have the Vienna Gene be more dominate than most other breeds).

[Sarita]

That’s interesting Mark! But is it true about Lionheads though – I thought they were a newer breed than most others out there. I know Dutches have been around for a very long time though. Just curious.

[MarkBun]

It’s what my research tells me. Although I think it applied to most of the pure white rabbits as many people find the red eyes somewhat disturbing so they tried to change the color and making them blue is easier than making them brown – also it makes them more unique/colorful.

[Deleted User]

Posted By violagirl23 on 10/30/2009 11:51 AM

 I see the other bunnies with blue eyes are white… are there not a lot of black bunnies with blue eyes or is this just a coincidence?

 

 

Not always white like the others pointed out. I love this dark girl at the Humane Society I browse. — Rabbit color genetics is interesting stuff!

 

[Deleted User]

The blue eyes sometimes turn up in the American Fuzzy Lops also. Maybe they aren’t the same blue color as the Viennas, though, there is another gene, called “ermine”, that can make a rabbit’s eyes blue-gray. (Now that’s really weird. I have an aunt who lives in Vienna and her name is Ermine.)

 

[Deleted User]

Posted By violagirl23 on 10/30/2009 12:09 PM
 the fur at the tips of her paws is a completely different texture than the fur on the rest of her. It’s very bushy and thicker and coarser. Is this the case for all rabbits or just some?

Kizuna looks like her fur is a little longer than regular rabbit fur. In the photo is looks a tad wispy here and there. She could be mixed with a longer-haired rabbit’s genes. Those have the long hairs on the paws. I am wondering if she doesn’t have some American Fuzzy Lop in her. It’s hard to know, but her eyes, markings and the wisps… I think she may.

Here is a pure-bred American Fuzzy Lop. They can have blue eyes, They’re a small rabbit under 4 lbs. I love these guys.

(not mine, this one is a show bun)

[LittlePuffyTail]

Beautiful bunnies!

This reminds me of grade 12 Biology class! We did the whole colour genetics study of a group of guinea pigs (not real ones in the class of course, as I would have stolen them ). Very interesting stuff.

[Elrohwen]

Posted By MarkBun on 10/30/2009 12:11 PM
The blue eye is due to something called the “Vienna Gene”. Like most genes, it is a matter of ‘the mix’ as to whether or not the color comes out. Mostly, the blue eyes were bred into white lionheads in order to produce the Blue-Eyed White (BEW). Due to many ‘rejects’ either not coming out completely white or not coming out with the blue eyes, these ‘rejects’ would be sold and eventually the color began to mix more into the general populace. It is still uncommon for a rabbit to have blue eyes but you can find them in just about every breed – although they tend to be found most often in lionhead or dutch breeds (dutch’s seem to have the Vienna Gene be more dominate than most other breeds).

 

I just wanted to add a bit to Mark’s awesome explanation! From what I’ve read, if a bunny has two copies of the Vienna gene, it is a blue eyed white. If it only has one copy of the gene, it ends up looking like Kizuna – a solid color with white markings (usually on the nose, chest, and feet) and blue eyes. So in a BEW breeding program, there are definitely going to be a lot of Vienna marked buns in order to get the all white ones and a lot of those end up as pets. However, the Vienna marks are still useful as breeding animals because you can breen two of them together and get a BEW.

I’ve also read that that Dutch markings of the true Dutch breed were developed indpendently of the Vienna marking gene. So, a Vienna marked bunny looks a lot like a Dutch, but may actually have no Dutch in their background at all. Kizuna is possibly a purebred Holland Lop that was a result of someone breeding blue eyed whites (I’ve seen quite a few Vienna marked lops out there since BEW is becoming so popular). That doesn’t explain why some Dutches have blue eyes, but from what I’ve read it’s not related to the Vienna gene and is just a coincidence. Breeding two Dutches together won’t give you a BEW, so it must be genetically different.

http://www.freewebs.com/olddixierabbitry/viennagene.htm

http://www.debmark.com/rabbits/genetics.htm (if you scroll down a bit in this article it shows the difference between the Dutch gene Du and the Vienna gene V.)

Sorry for rambling! I love blue eyed bunnies and I think genetics are fascinating.

[Deleted User]

Posted By Elrohwen on 10/31/2009 02:04 PM

 

Sorry for rambling! I love blue eyed bunnies and I think genetics are fascinating.

 

No rambling at all. I am very interested and the links are great. Thank you for posting. I am reading them now…

I know Neigey’s parents are both BEW’s so I figured the BEW to be totally recessive. Haha, if Neigey went to a family reunion you couldn’t tell who’s who!

[bunnytowne]

Here comes Mr Blue eyes        Yes the Dutch carry the vienna gene.    I know there are some people out there specializing in BEW  angora’s.   Here’s Mr. Boo playing peeky boo

 

This is b4 Cottons lip got sick   Isn’t he cute.  Here ye Here ye may the blue eyed buns meeting come to order

[Desma]

I HAVE NEVER SEEN A FUZZY LOP BEFORE!!!!!!! That sweet bunny is adorable!! Actually, all your bunnies are so sweet and cute and loved so much that it is a true pleasure for me to see others that love their pets as passionately as I do. I don’t have a blue eyed bunny–yet. The picture of the bunny sitting up at the table is fantastic too!! Reminds me of my pet oppossum, Ziggy Piggy did that! Thank you so much for sharing such gorgeous pictures of all your bunnies. It tickles me to death!

[Deleted User]

Bunnytowne, Cotton is Mr Blue Eyes — hehe! He’s got it all going on: the brown patches that I love (I love brown buns) the Dutch markings everyone swoons over, the blue eyes — he is a star! I wonder why they call it Dutch, btw, these Dutch buns were bred in England first. Weird.

Oh, that American Fuzzy Lop isn’t mine, I wish to have one one day, but I am a rex lover in the first place. in the meantime, I found a photo of an AFL that is blue-eyed and not white.

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

SO CUTE!!

The blue eye is due to something called the “Vienna Gene”. 

VERY true-Kahlua’s mom and dad were both blue eyed whites, and her little white patch on her nose shows she carries the vienna gene. I think it’s neat she’s so dark but has the gene and came from both white parents with blue eyes!

Here’s her ‘vienna’ mark-can you see the white-it’s right on the tip of her nose

[

[jerseygirl]

K&K, that’s amazing! I would never have guessed it. Do you have pics of her parents? So they were BEW double maned lionheads?

[FluffyBunny]

Posted By Petzy on 10/30/2009 07:19 AM

 

Fluffybunny, what happened to the Blue-Eyed White you saw at the pet store for adoption? I noticed she is no longer listed on Petfinder.

 

 

 

I’m honestly not sure. When I stopped at the petstore, there was a cage with her info and pics on it, but a REW inside.   Definitely not the gorgeous young BEW I was expecting to see. Both her and the REW were adopted, though.

[bunnytowne]

as for Cotton  he has gray  but in the summer his gray pants get a bit brown.   HE is shedding now and will turn gray again.

Dutch’s from England  humpf.   Shoudl have called them tux bunnies instead.   With their tuxedo markings.

[Lintini]

Baby bunny still doesn’t have a name since I don’t exactly know what sex he/she is. You should see all the binkies tho…good grief! I’m thinking of Egyptian names but I can’t pronounce half of them lol. All of his/her brothers and sisters had blue eyes except for 2 solid black ones. Interesting info Markbun!

[jerseygirl]

Posted By Lintini on 11/01/2009 04:45 PM
Baby bunny still doesn’t have a name since I don’t exactly know what sex he/she is. You should see all the binkies tho…good grief! I’m thinking of Egyptian names but I can’t pronounce half of them lol. All of his/her brothers and sisters had blue eyes except for 2 solid black ones. Interesting info Markbun!

I came across the name Sakkara. An Egyptian scribe who supposedly had blue eyes. A Male, though I think the name has a feminine sound to it also.  Could put emphasis on the Sakk (like Zach) or on the Kara.
 

[Monkeybun]

Could go Nile for a boy, or Nila for a girl. <3 the name Nila.

[Deleted User]

Posted By Elrohwen on 10/31/2009 02:04 PM

From what I’ve read, if a bunny has two copies of the Vienna gene, it is a blue eyed white. If it only has one copy of the gene, it ends up looking like Kizuna – a solid color with white markings (usually on the nose, chest, and feet) and blue eyes. So in a BEW breeding program, there are definitely going to be a lot of Vienna marked buns in order to get the all white ones and a lot of those end up as pets. However, the Vienna marks are still useful as breeding animals because you can breen two of them together and get a BEW.

Sorry for rambling! I love blue eyed bunnies and I think genetics are fascinating.

Elrohwen, this has kept me intrigued over the weekend. I remember someone suggesting in another discussion about BEW’s that they might be blind. This was dismissed as a a myth. However, I found this info about BEW genetics and it mentions that these rabbits’ eyes blind easily and I have noticed this in Neigey. I call him a vampire-bunny because he shuns the sun. The link also talks about BEW’s suffering deafness or seizures if continuously bred to BEW’s. I suppose profit-seeking breeders may engage in this practice since breeding BEW to BEW ensures litters of all BEW’s. 

http://www.freewebs.com/talisienlionheads/bewlionheads.htm

(thanks, KK, for posting about Kahkua, I didn’t even know about BEW lionheads)

 

 

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

K&K, that’s amazing! I would never have guessed it. Do you have pics of her parents? So they were BEW double maned lionheads

Yes-they were both double maned as well. Umn…I don’t have pics…but I have her site and I think she has pics.
I met both when I bought her, and I’ve seen her dad at shows since (mom was retired after Kahlua-it was her fourth litter with only one baby…) She’s Mary x Orion…

Here’s Hoppy’s Orion-her dad
http://www.hoppyacresrabbitry.ca/lionheads.htm

I can’t find pics of her mom…she should be in the ‘already sold’ section but It won’t load for me. Basically she looked the same as dad

[Elrohwen]

Posted By Petzy on 11/02/2009 09:41 AM

Posted By Elrohwen on 10/31/2009 02:04 PM

From what I’ve read, if a bunny has two copies of the Vienna gene, it is a blue eyed white. If it only has one copy of the gene, it ends up looking like Kizuna – a solid color with white markings (usually on the nose, chest, and feet) and blue eyes. So in a BEW breeding program, there are definitely going to be a lot of Vienna marked buns in order to get the all white ones and a lot of those end up as pets. However, the Vienna marks are still useful as breeding animals because you can breen two of them together and get a BEW.

Sorry for rambling! I love blue eyed bunnies and I think genetics are fascinating.

Elrohwen, this has kept me intrigued over the weekend. I remember someone suggesting in another discussion about BEW’s that they might be blind. This was dismissed as a a myth. However, I found this info about BEW genetics and it mentions that these rabbits’ eyes blind easily and I have noticed this in Neigey. I call him a vampire-bunny because he shuns the sun. The link also talks about BEW’s suffering deafness or seizures if continuously bred to BEW’s. I suppose profit-seeking breeders may engage in this practice since breeding BEW to BEW ensures litters of all BEW’s. 

http://www.freewebs.com/talisienlionheads/bewlionheads.htm

(thanks, KK, for posting about Kahkua, I didn’t even know about BEW lionheads)

 

 

Petzy, that’s really interesting! I know there’s a higher incidence of blindness and deafness in general with white animals and those with light colored eyes, so it really makes sense that it might occur in bunnies too. I find linking in genetics to be extremely interesting – that seemingly unrelated conditions can occur together; especially that so many seem to occur with totally white animals. There also seems to be a link to a lack of eye pigment (like the light blue eyes) and light sensitivity, so I wouldn’t be surprised if Neigey suffered from an oversensitivity. Have you asked your vet about it? Is there any test they could do just to confirm you suspicions? I’m going to have to read up more now! Let me know any more research you turn up and I’ll let you know if I find any more interesting BEW information.

(This discussion reminded me of merle Australian Shepherds – breading a merle and a solid gives you merle, but breeding two merles together gives you a deaf dog. Or in bunnies, one copy of the dwarfing gene gives a “normal” small bun, but two copies gives a peanut which isn’t viable.)
 

[Elrohwen]

 So, K&K and Petzy, answer me this question. How do Kahlua’s genetics work if both of her parents were BEW? I thought BEW + BEW was always BEW, but it sounds like there’s some other factor here. Petzy, has your researched turned this up yet? 

[Elrohwen]

Something else that I find very interesting: most white rabbits, including REWs, Dutch, and normal broken patterns, are white because the pigment in their fur lacks and enzyme that gives it color. So they have color pigment, it just isn’t expressed, I guess you could say.

In the BEW, there is actually no pigment in the fur at all. This is what differentiates BEW and Vienna marked from all other types of buns that have white fur (it explains why Vienna and Dutch are different, unrelated genes that just happen to look similar much of the time). This lack of pigment seems, to me, to be a bigger mutation than just a lack of an enzyme, so this could be the reason why breeding too many BEWs to BEWs can cause other recessive seizure disorders to show up – something might be linked there. People breed REWs to each other all the time and they don’t have the same issues.

Also, while some Dutch do have blue eyes, the only ones that should, according to the breed standard, are the blue colored ones; all others should have dark eyes. I’m still trying to figure this one out. You could assume that the dilution gene causing the rabbit to be blue (as opposed to black) would dilute the eye pigment, but there are plenty of blue colored rabbits of other breeds that don’t have blue eyes. So there’s another blue eyed mystery! Hopefully someone can find a genetic reason for this.

[Deleted User]

 

Petzy, (…)There also seems to be a link to a lack of eye pigment (like the light blue eyes) and light sensitivity, so I wouldn’t be surprised if Neigey suffered from an oversensitivity. Have you asked your vet about it? Is there any test they could do just to confirm you suspicions? I’m going to have to read up more now! Let me know any more research you turn up and I’ll let you know if I find any more interesting BEW information.

 

you and I need to meet up for our own color genetics discussion forum somewhere some time! This thread is going in my direction!

Neigey will be at the vet’s tomorrow but I may have to wait until the veterinary ophthalmologist pays my little town’s vet clinic her annual visit.

–Apparently, the REW’s process light differently as well and posture in a unique way to adjust to lighting. They, too, are sensitive to light as it floods their eyes quickly. A while back I saw an REW rainbow bridge bunny on BunSpace that had her eyes blinded by being stuck in sunlight outdoors in a previous ‘home’. Makes me think of all those many REW lab bunnies caged in large halls with fluorescent lighting. It can’t be good.

 

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

So, K&K and Petzy, answer me this question. How do Kahlua’s genetics work if both of her parents were BEW? I thought BEW + BEW was always BEW, but it sounds like there’s some other factor here. Petzy, has your researched turned this up yet?

I have absolutely NO idea. I know they had to be her parents, as far as I know, not only did she show the parents, they were on the pedigree, and they were the only doe/buck she had at the time. BUT who knows right…lemmie look into it.

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

I know the tendancy is to think blue is recessive, like we do in people but I’m not sure that’s the case.

Anyways heres some articles…I’ll pull out the salient bits here
—————–
http://www.lonestarrabbitry.com/BEWs.htm

“The BEW genes differ from the other genes and I still have a lot to learn about how this gene works. In my opinion the gene is neither dominant nor recessive, because sometimes it lies hidden but sometimes not. I’ll try to explain this further”

“When you breed a BEW to a BEW statistically you’ll get 100% chance of BEW. But, there are some exceptions: For instance when Himmie or RE lies hidden you could get phenotype RE. If sable lies behind the BEW you can get BEW’s with a ruby cast pupil, and these offspring are not showable. ”

———————-This one looks good

http://www.freewebs.com/talisienlionheads/bewlionheads.htm

 

 

“The vienna gene, which is not one of the five major colour genes, acts completely independantly of these 5 genes.

The vienna gene has 3 forms (4 if you count non influencing). And they will be noted as follows:

VV – Vienna Gene does not influence genetics

Vvc – Vienna Carrier – The gene is carried by the rabbit but there is no effect on the appearance of the rabbit. Vienna gene can be passed down to offspring. Offspring may have vienna markings. Or the gene may continue to be passed and show up many generations later. Some breeders do beleive that if you look closely at rabbits who appear to be carriers you will find a white marking somewhere often on a toe nail or maybe a white patch close to the vent area. I beleive in the co-dominance of this gene, where you have equal chance of it showing or being hidden. Vienna carriers may be a perfectly showable variety, but the breeder needs to be aware of the presence of the Vienna gene. These outcrossed offspring should only be used in a BEW program.

Vvm – Vienna Marked – Vienna markings are present. Vienna marked is also called Sport, Parti-colored, Mismarked, or Dutch-marked. The white markings often resemble Dutch rabbits, but the markings vary widely. There may just be a blaze down the face or a white nose, splashes on shoulders or toes, heavy scattered white hairs. The eyes are sometimes partially or totally blue. Please be aware that these are NOT Broken patterned rabbits, and cannot be shown or bred as such.

vv – BEW – Blue Eyed White rabbits are created from the presence of two recessive vienna genes. This means that both parents would have to be either vienna carriers or vienna marked rabbits. A cross between a BEW and a BEW will always 100% produce BEWs.

The vienna gene is a co-dominant gene and it may show up as a white marked bunny or it may not show up at all. Each of my rabbits have the vienna series of genes marked on their genotype. You will see the following notations, Vvm(vienna marked), Vvc(vienna carrier), and vv refers to a BEW. VV indicates a rabbit with no vienna influence. Sometimes it is not possible to tell if a bunny is Vvc or VV because both rabbits have the same appearance (i.e. no white markings), if this is the case I will describe the bunny as V_.”

 

 

 

[Deleted User]

Posted By Kokaneeandkahlua on 10/31/2009 07:15 PM

 

Kahlua’s mom and dad were both blue eyed whites, and her little white patch on her nose shows she carries the vienna gene. I think it’s neat she’s so dark but has the gene and came from both white parents with blue eyes!

 

 

Is Kahlua considered Vienna-marked or vienna-carrier according to her breeder?

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

Hahah See I don’t know…she is Vienna marked-because she has that spot…I think? But carrier-I guess she would be since both parents apparently are BEW…but I can’t totally say for sure

[Deleted User]

I suppose, any vienna-marked bun would automatocally be a carrier also but not vice versa.

[Elrohwen]

I’m still so confused about Kahlua, K&K! The articles seem to point at 100% BEW from two BEW parents, but it seems like the breeder would know who she bred, right? Unless somehow her doe had also bred to another, non BEW, male without her knowing … but that seems unlikely. I found some of the same articles you did and they all seemed clear that BEW is recessive, but one copy of the gene can be partially expressed with the blue eyes and some white markings (some buns even get partial blue eyes! that would be cool to see). The only theory I can come up with is that one of her buns was actually Vv, but instead of just some white markings, it was totally covered in white markings. Does that make sense? So it would look like a BEW, but genetically be a Vienna mark. But I don’t know if it’s possible for the Vienna markings to cover the whole body like that. I would think there would be some colored spot still that would make the bun not-showable. That was all I could think of to explain your bun though.

Petzy, from my understanding, a Vienna carrier is totally solid and doesn’t express the vienna gene, but that bun’s offspring could express the vienna gene. A bunny that is Vienna marked technically has the same genotype as the carrier, but the white markings are actually expressed (different phenotype). So yeah, a marked bunny would be a carrier, but a carrier wouldn’t be marked because you can’t see the white.

And I’m still trying to figure out why blue Dutch bunnies have blue eyes! I can find things on fur color, but eye color (when it’s not linked to REW or BEW) seems to have less information out there. In the case of REW and BEW, the eye color is directly related to how the genes influence fur color too: whatever process makes the fur white also influences the eye colors. But the Dutch bunny thing has me confused because it seems like it’s just the standard Du gene (to get the Dutch pattern) with a dilution to turn the black to blue … happens in all breeds but they don’t get blue eyes from it.

[Deleted User]

Posted By Elrohwen on 11/03/2009 03:06 PM

And I’m still trying to figure out why blue Dutch bunnies have blue eyes! I can find things on fur color, but eye color (when it’s not linked to REW or BEW) seems to have less information out there. In the case of REW and BEW, the eye color is directly related to how the genes influence fur color too: whatever process makes the fur white also influences the eye colors. But the Dutch bunny thing has me confused because it seems like it’s just the standard Du gene (to get the Dutch pattern) with a dilution to turn the black to blue … happens in all breeds but they don’t get blue eyes from it.

 

Isn’t the dutch blue eye a different blue than the BEW’s blue? Bunnytowne mentions Cotton’s eyes to be grayish blue, too. BEW’s blue eyes are supposed clear brilliant blue. Since the Du and the V gene are dsitinct from one another these two blues could have evolved separately, no?

 

[Deleted User]

Posted By Elrohwen on 11/03/2009 03:06 PM
I’m still so confused about Kahlua, K&K! The articles seem to point at 100% BEW from two BEW parents,

I guess it is possible that since lionheads are still being developed especially in that BEW range that Kahlua’s is the odd one out of the stats; a throw-back genetically.

[Elrohwen]

Posted By Petzy on 11/03/2009 03:38 PM

Posted By Elrohwen on 11/03/2009 03:06 PM

And I’m still trying to figure out why blue Dutch bunnies have blue eyes! I can find things on fur color, but eye color (when it’s not linked to REW or BEW) seems to have less information out there. In the case of REW and BEW, the eye color is directly related to how the genes influence fur color too: whatever process makes the fur white also influences the eye colors. But the Dutch bunny thing has me confused because it seems like it’s just the standard Du gene (to get the Dutch pattern) with a dilution to turn the black to blue … happens in all breeds but they don’t get blue eyes from it.

 

Isn’t the dutch blue eye a different blue than the BEW’s blue? Bunnytowne mentions Cotton’s eyes to be grayish blue, too. BEW’s blue eyes are supposed clear brilliant blue. Since the Du and the V gene are dsitinct from one another these two blues could have evolved separately, no?

 

Yeah, I would assume the Dutch blue is different than the BEW blue. I don’t think they’re linked at all. So I’m trying to figure out why only blue Dutches have blue eyes, but no luck! I can’t seem to find any articles on genetics for eye color except BEW and REW articles which aren’t what I’m looking for.

I was thining about Cotton … since he’s a lionhead, couldn’t he just be a Vienna marked with blue eyes? I think Vienna marks often don’t have the bright blue eyes – they can have have blue half brown, different shades of blue, etc. So that could explain why his eyes are greyish blue.

[Elrohwen]

Petzy, I just found a fun new site! http://www.rabbitcolors.info/int/en/index.html

[Deleted User]

I agree about Cotton being vienna-marked. I thought the same thing last night after I had already shut down the computer. Now I am checking that site you posted…

[Deleted User]

Posted By Elrohwen on 11/04/2009 08:24 AM

Petzy, I just found a fun new site! http://www.rabbitcolors.info/int/en/index.html

oh, wow, that link will keep me busy for a while!

Have you come across any info about the color ermine? It says in this link that sometimes an assumed BEW is really ermine.

http://www.psci.net/haencaoo/bew.html

[Elrohwen]

Posted By Petzy on 11/04/2009 11:44 AM

Posted By Elrohwen on 11/04/2009 08:24 AM

Petzy, I just found a fun new site! http://www.rabbitcolors.info/int/en/index.html

oh, wow, that link will keep me busy for a while!

Have you come across any info about the color ermine? It says in this link that sometimes an assumed BEW is really ermine.

http://www.psci.net/haencaoo/bew.html

 

Interesting! Myabe one of Kahlua’s parents was actually an ermine that looked exactly like a BEW. That would explain how they could have a baby that wasn’t BEW. Good dectective work

[sgregory]

I have an all-white flemish giant with blue eyes. they arent brilliantly blue though, in the dark they look like a dark green, but in the light they are definitely blue.

the people who bred her had bred the same two buns three or four other times, each with litters of about 6, so she was the only bew out of maybe 18 babies. the dad was a brown eyed brown bun and the mom was a rew. both parents were purebred flemishes.

her eyes in the sun

 

not in the sun

[Elrohwen]

Sgregory, very cool! She’s gorgeous. And you’ve given Petzy and me a new color genetic puzzle to solve 😉

[bunnytowne]

Yes viola girl   their feet hair and on their legs near their foot may be different texture

[Kokaneeandkahlua]

Interesting! Myabe one of Kahlua’s parents was actually an ermine that looked exactly like a BEW. That would explain how they could have a baby that wasn’t BEW. Good dectective work

That would make sense-I’m still not clear, and to be honest color genetics give me a headache!! But she probably woudn’t have bothered saying ermine to a noob like me, and just said blue eyed white?

[Deleted User]

I do believe you would have been able to spot the ermine though… they have a sort of ticking or lacing to their white.
–I wasn’t going to suggest it, but could Kahlua’s parents have been siblings, BEW siblings? It’s not at all uncommon practice especially when trying to improve good wool in angoras and I imagine the same would go for the manes in the lionheads. If they were siblings, their hidden colors (BEW and REW have colors hidden in their genotypes) could have materialized in Kahlua’s phenotype with greater likelihood.
KK, I wonder how much genetics they teach at vet school… you may have to pick up some headache meds along with your textbook when you get there!

I suppose sgregory’s flemmie shows how unlikely the vienna whites are if not targeted by a breeding program. The blue-eyed flemmie suggests there were vienna carriers in her lines. I wonder if many BEW aren’t heavily inbred by irresponsible breeders to get the 100% BEW litters fast for shows and such… this would then explain the hgher incidence of deafness and seizures. It is possible that the eyes in a first BEW, such as sgregory’s, of a line would have an off-tinging to them that the breeders then try to brighten by refined mating choices. (I wonder if BB is going to make my thread disappear for all this talk of breeding)

Elrohwen, another fact I came across in this context is the texture of white fur on rabbits. It said in one of the articles I read that white fur is softer than colored fur and also a little longer. I wonder if this is even true for the rex fur?

[Elrohwen]

Posted By Petzy on 11/04/2009 01:28 PM

I do believe you would have been able to spot the ermine though… they have a sort of ticking or lacing to their white.
–I wasn’t going to suggest it, but could Kahlua’s parents have been siblings, BEW siblings? It’s not at all uncommon practice especially when trying to improve good wool in angoras and I imagine the same would go for the manes in the lionheads. If they were siblings, their hidden colors (BEW and REW have colors hidden in their genotypes) could have materialized in Kahlua’s phenotype with greater likelihood.
KK, I wonder how much genetics they teach at vet school… you may have to pick up some headache meds along with your textbook when you get there!

I suppose sgregory’s flemmie shows how unlikely the vienna whites are if not targeted by a breeding program. The blue-eyed flemmie suggests there were vienna carriers in her lines. I wonder if many BEW aren’t heavily inbred by irresponsible breeders to get the 100% BEW litters fast for shows and such… this would then explain the hgher incidence of deafness and seizures. It is possible that the eyes in a first BEW, such as sgregory’s, of a line would have an off-tinging to them that the breeders then try to brighten by refined mating choices. (I wonder if BB is going to make my thread disappear for all this talk of breeding)

Elrohwen, another fact I came across in this context is the texture of white fur on rabbits. It said in one of the articles I read that white fur is softer than colored fur and also a little longer. I wonder if this is even true for the rex fur?

 

But even if Kahlua’s parents had other genes hiding behind the BEW, since the BEW is recessive they should’ve still had BEW babies. From what I understand, the bun can be any genetic type under the BEW, but as long as they have two v genes, they’ll be BEW (with maybe some redness in the eye color due to some other “hiding” genes like the REW or himi genes). The hidden colors should’ve only been able to come out if one of the BEW whites was mated with a rabbit of a different color.

On my theory on the last page: is it possible that one of the parents was only Vv but just had white “markings” all over? So they would look BEW, but genetically be Vienna marked. It sounds very unlikely that a Vienna marked bun would be totally white with absolutely no colored areas though.

I guess you’re right that ermine usually has other ticking … though lionheads are weird with all that mane, so maybe it looks pure white in a lionhead? I would think you would not bread an ermine to a BEW if you knew what they were, but if you thought they were both BEW, because they looked just like it, you could breed them without knowing.

And Petzy, I read the same thing about white fur! Haha. I thought that was very interesting. Now I’m petting Otto’s white spots vs his black spots to see if I can feel a difference. Lol. He thinks I’m looney.

And for breeding, I’ve heard that most BEWs have very poor type because other breeds are often crossed in to get the color. So to get BEW Hollands, people probably bred some BEW Nethies into the line. So there’s a lot of outbreeding and then breeding back to solid color buns to get better type. For that reason I could see BEWs as not very inbred, but since the population is small, once people are breeding BEW to BEW all the time, I think inbreeding would be rampant. Definitely could be the cause of seizures and stuff, especially if they’re somehow linked to the genes that create white fur.

I am far too interested in this topic. Lol

[Deleted User]

Posted By Elrohwen on 11/04/2009 02:04 PM

Now I’m petting Otto’s white spots vs his black spots to see if I can feel a difference. Lol. He thinks I’m looney.

 

Otto thinks your looney ! I think he just enjoys the extra white-fur pettings!! I wonder if white fur is softer on any animal. My bristly-brindle dog has one white star on his chest and it is soft. The only soft fur on him. 

Neigey home from the vet’s today.  I asked about the eyes. The vet said that any blue or light eye is more sensitive to bright light, this includes people’s eyes and cows’ eyes. Neigey’s eyes checked out fine.

Now I wonder if Neigey is inbred because he has two recessive traits, rex and BEW… well, I love him. He isn’t deaf or blind and made it through his surgery fine. He was eating within four hours after waking up, none of my other rabbits did that. The only thing the vet noted was that he was incredibly busy and comfortable at the office. — typically rex. I wonder now  if personality is more linked to fur-types than to pigmentation. Angoras seem to share certain characteristics as do the rexes.

 

 

 

[Elrohwen]

Posted By Petzy on 11/05/2009 09:53 AM

Posted By Elrohwen on 11/04/2009 02:04 PM

Now I’m petting Otto’s white spots vs his black spots to see if I can feel a difference. Lol. He thinks I’m looney.

 

Otto thinks your looney ! I think he just enjoys the extra white-fur pettings!! I wonder if white fur is softer on any animal. My bristly-brindle dog has one white star on his chest and it is soft. The only soft fur on him. 

Neigey home from the vet’s today.  I asked about the eyes. The vet said that any blue or light eye is more sensitive to bright light, this includes people’s eyes and cows’ eyes. Neigey’s eyes checked out fine.

Now I wonder if Neigey is inbred because he has two recessive traits, rex and BEW… well, I love him. He isn’t deaf or blind and made it through his surgery fine. He was eating within four hours after waking up, none of my other rabbits did that. The only thing the vet noted was that he was incredibly busy and comfortable at the office. — typically rex. I wonder now  if personality is more linked to fur-types than to pigmentation. Angoras seem to share certain characteristics as do the rexes.

 

 

Since Neigey is a BEW and a rex, I imagine someone bred him on purpose, so there probably was some form of inbreeding or line breeding  But I’m sure it’s no big deal to him  I’m glad he came out of his surgery ok! Otto decided he didn’t want to eat much until the next day, but the vet was holding him for observation that whole time so I knew they’d take care of him. And who know, part of the not eating might have been the stress of being at the vet more than anything else.

I think personalities definitely are fairly breed related! Less so than in dogs though, because you can’t cross a purebred dog with another purebred dog and still be able to register them. With rabbits, it’s fine to outcross now and then, so I think there’s a lot of mix in personality even within breeds. But I think there are still definitely some distinctive personalities among the breeds. Nethies, Dutch, and Rex all seem to have fairly consistent personality traits from what I hear.

[sammyp]

baby blues

[sgregory]

what an adorable bun!!

[mrmac]

How adorable!

[Deleted User]

I love your rabbit, too, sammyp, what a beauty.

[Lintini]

I know most of you have seen in updated threads, this little one turned out to be male, unlike the first post from Petzy I thought it was a girl still and “she” didn’t have a name yet. And his name is now Indiana Jones, “Indy”

[LizzieKnittyBun]

Well Indy is beautiful!

[Kafrn]

I dont understand how to use the website above! Every time I click on a rabbit it comes up with 10 more!

[Monkeybun]

…is it a bad thing to see that many bunnies Kafrn? lol

[Lintini]

Thank you, that is very sweet Lizzie <3

[LizzieKnittyBun]

: D

[megan_ann]

Hey all! I haven’t posted here in a while, so I thought I’d drop an update. My blue-eyed bun (Kizuna) is doing well… we actually think now that Kizuna is probably a boy! My roommate said she thought she saw testicles… we’re still not sure 100% but just going with that… so we’ve started to try calling him “he” instead of “she” (which is actually pretty hard after using “she” for 6 weeks!) and I can no longer use my favorite nickname for him (which was Girly), but besides that… we’re going to keep the name the same. He’s grown some, and he’s getting more comfortable around us. He’ll hop out of his cage in no time if we open the door, and he likes to run around. If I put my head down in front of him, he’ll bite my hair at the part, or lick my forehead (I don’t want him ingesting my hair and having problems though, so I usually try to have my head high enough so he’ll lick my forehead instead) and when I’m petting him he’ll often nip my fingers in turn (which hurts a little bit, but I don’t want to offend him…)… so I THINK he likes me. I love cuddling with him. ^_^ Just thought I’d leave an update!

[Author]

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