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Forum THE LOUNGE This is pretty terrible

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    • LittlePuffyTail
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        Warning : Not graphic but still disturbing.

        Source: Yahoo.ca

        Burning bunnies helps keep people warm and cozy

        STOCKHOLM (Reuters) – Forget bunny boiling jealous rages and rapacious butchers. The biggest threats to Peter Rabbit’s Swedish cousins are the cold, the cull and their flammable cadavers.

         The city of Stockholm shoots thousands of wild rabbits spread across the green spaces of the Swedish capital and sends their bodies to be burned as heating fuel, a practice which has enraged animal rights groups.

        City official Mats Freij said Stockholm killed 6,000 wild rabbits last year and has culled 3,000 so far this year, but said a subcontractor decided to use the cadavers as fuel.

        “One should put this in the perspective that we (humans) are actually cremated ourselves and that generates a completely different reaction,” Freij said in response to criticism.

        Animal Rights Sweden spokeswoman Lise-Lott Alsenius questioned whether the practice was humane or ethical and suggested neutering the male rabbits as an alternative method of holding down the population.

        “One at least has to evaluate what the alternatives are to just simply shooting them,” she said.

        Konvex, the company handling the operation, said the rabbits were ground up with the cadavers of other beasts, mainly farm animals such as cows which have been deemed unfit for human consumption, reduced to flammable form and incinerated.

        “Just as with us people … the bodies contain a lot of fat and fat has exactly the same energy content as normal heating oil for instance,” Konvex Chief Executive Leo Virta said.

         

        I figured Peta would be livid and this is what they had to say on their blog:
         

        blog.peta.org/archives/2009/10/sweden_burns_bunnies.php

         


      • Sarita
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          Yes, it’s awful. MarkBun posted about this earlier this week too.


        • Karla
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            I am not going to defend it, but these are actually wild rabbits that are being shot anyway. The number of certain wild animals has to be kept down to keep the wildlife in balance, so even though the thought of “rabbit fuel” is disturbing, they are actually just using the dead bodies, that would otherwise just be wasted…or at least eaten by the hunters.

            So it is not a matter of the Swedish government shooting wild rabbits in search of a new type of fuel, but making use of dead bodies.

            Well, it seemed that I defended it anyhow…


          • LittlePuffyTail
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              Sorry for posting about something MarkBun already brought up. I missed his post. The two of us are often concerned about the same issues.


            • Karla
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                LittlePuffyTail, I like to know why it bothers you…so please don’t give up this thread. I’m just curious.

                Don’t get me wrong ’cause I’m vegetarian and definitely would never associate with hunters…but I do see a point in it as it is vital to keep a balance in nature now that mankind has killed so many of the wild animals that are needed to keep the balance (in Sweden, for instance, the wolf). So please, elaborate, I like to hear other points of views.


              • Furface
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                  I agree that man has fowled up the natural prey/predator world & shooting overly populated animals has to be better than starvation. IMO
                  I also think they should use them for something, if not food for say zoo animals, then why not heat.
                  I think if you are going to kill something, you should use as much of the animal as possible.
                  I don’t agree with killing for fur alone, or meat alone. Use as much as possible, no waste.
                  Such as how we use cows, meat, leather, & I think they make bone meal for gardens out of the bone.

                  Although, I also think that harvesting the heat from human crematoriums is not a bad idea, reuse & recycle.
                  *runs & hides from lynch mob that will surely soon be after me*


                • LittlePuffyTail
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                    Well, according to Peta, not all of these rabbits were wild rabbits. And I think that killing 6000 rabbits in one city seems a bit much. Besides, in my opinion, most animal overpopulation is caused by humans in the first place (taking over most over their territory and destroying their food) and it’s the animals that suffer because there is no room or food for them.

                    I know this is gonna raise some issues but in my opinion, humans should NEVER benefit from the suffering of animals. That’s the whole reason for animal suffering, it’s beneficial to humans and, therefore, humans become blind to it and it becomes “just a way of life”.


                  • Karla
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                      Posted By Furface on 10/16/2009 11:31 AM
                      I agree that man has fowled up the natural prey/predator world & shooting overly populated animals has to be better than starvation. IMO
                      I also think they should use them for something, if not food for say zoo animals, then why not heat.
                      I think if you are going to kill something, you should use as much of the animal as possible.
                      I don’t agree with killing for fur alone, or meat alone. Use as much as possible, no waste.
                      Such as how we use cows, meat, leather, & I think they make bone meal for gardens out of the bone.

                      Although, I also think that harvesting the heat from human crematoriums is not a bad idea, reuse & recycle.
                      *runs & hides from lynch mob that will surely soon be after me*

                      I won’t lynch you ’cause that is exactly how I feel. Killing animals just for the fur or the meat and that is it, is absolutely pointless and just arrogant. But since the wild rabbits have to be killed anyhow, I’m glad to know that their bodies are not wasted, but that they are helping to make Sweden more CO2-friendly at least.  
                       

                      Although I don’t eat meat, I always tell my boyfriend (who loves meat) that he should buy meat from hunters as these animals at least have lived in the wild and have had a good life unlike industrial farm animals. He doesn’t buy from hunters though, but at least it is from organic farms where the animals have better conditions.

                      But I would really like to hear the opinons of people who think using the dead bodies for fuel is distusting and why. It would just be interesting.


                    • Karla
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                        Posted By LittlePuffyTail on 10/16/2009 11:48 AM

                        Well, according to Peta, not all of these rabbits were wild rabbits. And I think that killing 6000 rabbits in one city seems a bit much. Besides, in my opinion, most animal overpopulation is caused by humans in the first place (taking over most over their territory and destroying their food) and it’s the animals that suffer because there is no room or food for them.

                        I know this is gonna raise some issues but in my opinion, humans should NEVER benefit from the suffering of animals. That’s the whole reason for animal suffering, it’s beneficial to humans and, therefore, humans become blind to it and it becomes “just a way of life”.

                         

                        Thank you  PETA are right…in Sweden they shoot rabbits that run wild in the city. Which means it might be a house rabbit on the run that is shot. But other than that, they are in fact wild rabbits.

                        I agree completely with your opinion! But if the wild rabbits are not killed (because the predators have been killed, because it didn’t fit with city life), the balance of nature is completely turned around and other animals will die. It is a loose-loose situation, unfortunately.

                        You know, in Sweden they use dead bodies (people) for compost as well…they have a new way of cremating people, which is quite interesting and unlike ordinary cremation, but which turns the body into soil within ½-1 year. They are very environmental.

                         


                      • MarkBun
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                          The thing that is suprising to me is the sheer volume that is being destroyed. Believe it or not, rabbits actually have a built in population control system when resources are low. There are medical reports of rabbits actually reabsorbing embryos when food sources are too low to support their population. The fact that there are this many animals a year needing destruction, to me, means that it isn’t a matter of starvation for the animals but that they are destroying the resources of humans.

                          I would need to see the actual rabbits that are being destroyed to tell if they are indeed wild or feral. The difference being that feral rabbits were once house rabbits that people just let go. I can’t believe that PETA would suggest sterilization of wild rabbit males – but feral ones, sure. It is the same thing they do to feral cat populations.

                          As for using bodies for other means, I have no issue with this. In fact, I even have a hard time with denouncing cannibalization as an alternative food source depending upon the cadaver. However, social taboos and all of that.


                        • Karla
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                            Posted By MarkBun on 10/16/2009 12:34 PM
                            The thing that is suprising to me is the sheer volume that is being destroyed. Believe it or not, rabbits actually have a built in population control system when resources are low. There are medical reports of rabbits actually reabsorbing embryos when food sources are too low to support their population. The fact that there are this many animals a year needing destruction, to me, means that it isn’t a matter of starvation for the animals but that they are destroying the resources of humans.

                            I would need to see the actual rabbits that are being destroyed to tell if they are indeed wild or feral. The difference being that feral rabbits were once house rabbits that people just let go. I can’t believe that PETA would suggest sterilization of wild rabbit males – but feral ones, sure. It is the same thing they do to feral cat populations.

                            As for using bodies for other means, I have no issue with this. In fact, I even have a hard time with denouncing cannibalization as an alternative food source depending upon the cadaver. However, social taboos and all of that.

                            Not sure I  could eat another human being  But only because I would be thinking of diseases and that the person might have used creams, perfumes, et.c with ingredients known to cause hormonal changes. Haha, I’m a freak

                            I read that a Swedish animal welfare head person said that the wild rabbits should be fixed as well. It would be so stressful for these animals, and how would they even catch them and bring them to a vet?

                            I have read the same as you about rabbits having this population control system. Maybe I should look into it regarding the Swedish rabbits. I am sure the Swedish articles are more fully elaborate than the international. (I just found a Swedish article on problems with feral rabbits…be a moment. I am translating it right now)


                          • Karla
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                              So here is the thing. The rabbits that are being shot are from Stockholm…and here is an article I found on the rabbit problem in Stockholm (from 2003, so the number has probably grown). Apparently, a huge number of them are pets…not that it changes my view on it. Now I just have a new opinon: that Swedish rabbit owners should be more responsible!

                              The article (http://www.dn.se/sthlm/innerstaden-…r-1.222096):

                              Rabbits in Stockholm

                              More than 2,000 feral domestic rabbits have been shot this year alone in central Stockholm. But at least as many are still alive and live on food that animal lovers throw at them.

                              Rabbits, which live even in the most inhospitable places, have now become the object of study. High school teacher Volker Petersen has for the past six years, studied the feral domestic rabbits, which spread throughout central Stockholm, especially on Kungsholmen.

                              The first rabbits are said to have been come from Jungfrudansen in Solna in the mid 80’s and today they live at City Hall in Stockholm. “Rabbit population is biologically very interesting. For instance. how can they survive in the middle of the traffic jungle?”, wonders Volker Petersen.

                              This Thursday, he brought his class to Klarastrandsleden for an on-site study of the city’s new dwellers who have settled on a strip of land, surrounded by roaring traffic. Here 70 rabbits have found their perfect location: “No dogs or foxes can access them without the risk of being hit by a car. The ground is covered with vegetables and fruit that rabbit lovers throw out the car window. Someone has even passed by and thrown a load of straw that has rotten away in the autumn rain.”

                              Not far from here a colony of 15 rabbits live on a tiny piece of grass. Here the young scientists equipped with binoculars and rabbit food – from school catering – study the natural behaviors that still live on in animals that have spent generations in cages. “The number of rabbits have exploded this year and we do not know why. Maybe because more people started to feed them, “says Volker Petersen.

                              Kungsholmens District paid last year over 80,000 SEK for the hunting of rabbits, who like to eat the newly planted hedges and flowers. “We have a standing order for the shooting. But they are difficult to get rid off and they cope surprisingly well in the harsh road environment, “said Jan Sunström, park engineer Kungsholmens District.

                              Tommy Tuvunger, a member of pests group has killed rabbits for several years but finds, not surprisingly, that they are good at reproducation: “The goal is to get rid of them them, but it is almost impossible. If we shoot one, the others disappears down their burrows. It is best to shoot them in those early summer mornings. You have to do it nicely, otherwise people are protesting loudly, “says Tommy Tuvunger.


                            • MarkBun
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                                Posted By Karla on 10/16/2009 12:52 PM

                                I read that a Swedish animal welfare head person said that the wild rabbits should be fixed as well. It would be so stressful for these animals, and how would they even catch them and bring them to a vet?

                                I have read the same as you about rabbits having this population control system. Maybe I should look into it regarding the Swedish rabbits. I am sure the Swedish articles are more fully elaborate than the international. (I just found a Swedish article on problems with feral rabbits…be a moment. I am translating it right now)

                                 

                                The way it works in major situations like this is that they bring a mobile vet clinic to the site.  They trap the males, anestitize them, snip them, sew them up and put them back out all in 10-15 minutes.  It’s literally like an assembly line – or in this case a disassembly line.  With four vets and as many techs, plus people capturing and sorting the male rabbits, they can do anywhere from 100-150 a day. 


                              • Kokaneeandkahlua
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                                  I thought this was a joke when I first saw it. I was hoping no one on the forum would find it. SO sad


                                • angelicvampyre
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                                    just wanted to add that the nuter and release programs DO NOT work. they have the same issue with feral cats in park in the sates and they started a program of trapping them desexing and re releasing and guess what? the population is still growing in fact for some reason it seems to be growing faster now then it was 5 years ago BEFORE they put the program into place. i don’t know what the answer is but coming from the farm i know what it is like to have to walk around a paddock with a shot gun and shoot dying rabbits, roos and cows as they just can’t feed or water themselves. If you have ever seen an amimal starve itself to death it is a HORRIBLE way to go so i can understand the reason behind culling wild amimals that get into plage numbers, jsut for the record I understand why they do it i don’t always agree.


                                  • Kokaneeandkahlua
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                                      ^^ I have to jump in and say desexed animals are NOT reproducing…what’s likely happening in that situation is people are like ‘oh I’ll dump my —-insert species—-there because they wil fix them and look after them rather then paying a surrender fee at a shelter or rehoming myself’

                                      People see a group of dumped animals -often rabbits or cats-and dump their inconvenient charges there as well.


                                    • angelicvampyre
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                                        Kokaneeandkahlua – I agree desexed animals are not reproducing just the program is not working. I am sure part of it is more people are dumping the animals there now or maybe the cats are working out what is going on either way the put this program in place and now have a larger population growth then before the program was there. I was just putting forward the point that may people say they should do a catch spay and release program but the past has shown this does not help the larger issue


                                      • Kokaneeandkahlua
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                                          Totally agree with you

                                          Some cat colonies it does work, but I can definitely see that in urban situations it wouldn’t …people see dumped animasl and jump on the bandwagon…I’m sure in some situations they even think their cat/rabbit whatever will be happier with this bunch of pets free, then at home (not that a GOOD home would do that, but probably not all dumpers are maliscious)

                                          Out of curiosity-what cities/colonies did you read about? I know there is a feral colony of cats in AB that has been maintained and almost completely tapered out due to neuter and release


                                        • angelicvampyre
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                                            I would have to find the article/video that I saw about a year ago where there was a lady who had flipped from being a HUGE supporter of the programs to coming out and saying that they don’t work and we have to find another solution. Will see if I can track down the link for you


                                          • Adalaide
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                                              Posted By MarkBun on 10/16/2009 01:24 PM

                                               

                                              The way it works in major situations like this is that they bring a mobile vet clinic to the site.  They trap the males, anestitize them, snip them, sew them up and put them back out all in 10-15 minutes.  It’s literally like an assembly line – or in this case a disassembly line.  With four vets and as many techs, plus people capturing and sorting the male rabbits, they can do anywhere from 100-150 a day. 

                                              With the rate at which rabbits reproduce along with the likelyhood of more people releasing rabbits this idea simply could never work. Assuming that there are only 1000 adult rabbits and half are male they’d be done in 5 days. There would without a doubt though be countless litters they wouldn’t be able to find. Half of those rabbits would be male. Heck, all it would take is 1 person releasing a male rabbit and the whole thing is undone. He could impregnate countless females in days. In an ideal world this would work, but in an ideal world this wouldn’t have become a problem in the first place. Better a rabbit dead in a moment than dead when it starves to death.

                                               

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                                          Forum THE LOUNGE This is pretty terrible