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BINKYBUNNY FORUMS > BONDING > All Male-Neutered Quartett with picture recap
Last Post by mrmac at 01/18/2011 12:03 PM (278 Replies)
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User is Offline Petzy
Northern AB Canada
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07/30/2009 03:08 PM

A friend of mine has a male-male bonded pair and was fostering a number of rescued rabbits as well. Two of which she wanted to bond to her pair and had them neutered. Her existing pair's dominant rabbit, Roger, began attacking his bonded buddy at the scent or sight of the new rabbits from across their barrier.  We agreed to try bonding the quartett at my house to start off fresh on neutral grounds.

I will post a concise summary so far as the process is still ongoing.  I just finished my own mixed trio bonding process coverage not long ago, but many members have wondered about neutered male multiples, so here it is .

Here are the 'subjects'

Roger, dominant, humpy bunny. Not abusive, though. Just likes to be the top bunny.

Bugs, Himalayan, tiny little bunny, probably the sweetest bun I have ever met. He seems to bond instantly to any creature including rabbits.

He is Roger's long-time bonded friend.

Valmore. A 5-month-old, medium sized agouti rabbit with a cottontail look. He is originally out of a rescued feral litter. He is shy, having had little handling. Very powerful hindlegs... truthfully, my favorite bunny ever.

 

 

Clifford, 2 year-old (like Roger and Bugs), gentle, friendly, three-and-a-half pound rabbit, life-of-the-party personality. He humps everything, including cats. Easy to handle, curious, loves people, dogs, but very humpy with other rabbits.

 

I started with Roger and Valmore as I figured Bugs would make for a quick bond (I tested with my own rabbit Mops who is non-aggressive).

I didn't capture the first bath tub intro on tape because it was very beligerent and I needed my hands free. They fought and I separated them using fine mist from my shower head. This is why they look damp in this video.

 

I repeated bath tub sessions every night for five days, sometimes with the tap running as a stressor. They didn't fight again but Valmore seemed scared/guarded and Roger didn't want to risk getting in a quarrel so nobunny really made any advances.

I transferred them into a small section of my patio corner (my own rabbits were in the basement, nowhere near these guys) and started sessions with Roger and Valmore providing them with two neutral litter boxes, and treats. I had a long-handled broom ready in case of a scuffle.

They relaxed as they explored and I felt  that stress-bonding was not indicated for these two at that point.

I repeated these sessions for about two hours on five consecutive days.

...to be continued.

(is 5 photo attachments the limit per post?)

Photobucket "what happened? did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?"

User is Offline mrmac
San Diego, CA
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07/30/2009 03:29 PM
I havnt 'seen' you around in a while! I tried to post pics the other day and it would only let me do 5 per post too. Ooh boy, 4 boys! In the tub they both look very frozen, in 'I have to watch you' mode. Is Valmore in the tub with Roger or Clifford, I thought he looked darker than Roger? They seemed to be more relaxed outside.
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User is Offline Petzy
Northern AB Canada
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07/30/2009 03:36 PM

Then, as the novelty of Roger and Valmore had worn off between them which didn't take a week even, I added Bugs, caged, into their space to check for signs of aggression in Roger (this was my friend's concern, that Roger's bond to Bugs would disintegrate ).

 

Everybunny was calm. The next day, I put the three together on top of my running dryer inside this tiny cage that Bugs is shown inside of here.

From the moment I brought in Bugs it was a matter of instant-trio bond. (who knew such a thing existed??)

Then, I took it a step further, not wanting to let the trio cement their triangle permanently, knowing they are meant to become a quartett.

I presented Clifford to them in their space but caged.

But my streak ended when I did a bath tub intro between Valmore and Clifford. Valmore, once more scared and tense, but Clifford more determined to hump than Roger. Valmore bit at Clifford.  I settled them down with running water noise from the tap, petted them calm and separated them. I tried Clifford with Bugs the next day and it was another intant bond as seems to be the magic of Bugs... magical enough I was able to add Roger to them in the small cage but petting them lots all the while. Roger will sit as long as I keep stroking his head.  I continue working on Valmore and Clifford separately. My plan is to keep doing tri-bun sessions between Clifford, Bugs and Roger until I get Valmore and Clifford beginning to act friendly and curious about one another in the bathroom.

I did, however,  allow the new trio be together 24/7 from here on in.

 

(Bugs is love: he tolerates and gives.  If the world was more like this little Himalayan rabbit, there would be peace and friendship as a matter of course!)

Photobucket "what happened? did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?"

User is Offline Petzy
Northern AB Canada
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07/30/2009 03:41 PM
Hey mrmac! yes, I was busy. but I had to drop in to show you these guys. Valmore is in the tub with Roger. They got a little wet and it made their coloring change hue. This bonding got me thinking how important the neutral space is, even for bonds that seem bad from the beginning. My friend was really not sure if Roger would take it well, he's been paired wiith Bugs for most of his 2-year life.
Photobucket "what happened? did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?"

User is Offline mrmac
San Diego, CA
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07/30/2009 04:01 PM

""From the moment I brought in Bugs it was a matter of instant-trio bond. (who knew such a thing existed??)""

I couldn't even imagine!  There's always two that have to have some little issue! The three look so good together though! They are all sooooo adorable!

 

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User is Offline jerseygirl
Australia
11414 posts Send Private Message
07/30/2009 04:16 PM

Petzy! If you pull this off, you're a bloody legend!

Are you going to become a professional bonder?

I survived the BB site update 2012

User is Offline Lintini
Bay Area, California
3329 posts Send Private Message
07/30/2009 04:20 PM
Hey!! Look over there!! *points* *runs off with Valmore* Bwahahha!!!
Photobucket

User is Offline Petzy
Northern AB Canada
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07/31/2009 01:59 PM

To sort everybody for name reference, here is the new trio, from left to right:

Valmore (uppy-eared, agouti bun), little Bugs (Himalayan), and Roger (lop).

and here is the problem. Clifford. A.k.a. 'Superhump',  an icon of masculinity.

Clifford has a stuffed toy to love but it doesn't interest him as much as the real thing.

*Clifford has bald spots on his ears and above his nose from mosquito bites. He came to us like that. He has been treated and it has healed but the hairs are still growing back.

I did a bath tub session between Valmore and Clifford today.

you can see here it started out rough.

I ran the water and my dog barked at the commotion which halted the combat.

Valmore looking for a way out...

Photobucket "what happened? did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?"

User is Offline Petzy
Northern AB Canada
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07/31/2009 02:09 PM

Then they settled down and I ended on a reasonably calm note.

I also did a session between Clifford and Roger, in a small sink. Roger is not nearly as nervous and jumpy  when meeting Clifford as is Valmore. Roger tolerated Clifford.

I then transferred all 4 rabbits into a neutral cage, where Clifford humped Bugs while Roger ate noms. Valmore was the only rabbit upset by this situation. I had them together for a matter of 5 minutes before I separated Valmore and Clifford out and into a basket. I carried the two around in this basket for about ten mnutes, causing jerky motion and then sat  with them to pet them for 15 minutes. Clifford didn't try anything, his strength was running low from the different scenarios. Valmore not too happy, but a lot of it is me; he's scared of people still.

to be continued.

 

Photobucket "what happened? did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?"

User is Offline Petzy
Northern AB Canada
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07/31/2009 02:27 PM

I wanted to add that even though it seems stressful, the new trio's bond has been unaffected by the intro sessions to Clifford.

Photobucket "what happened? did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?"

User is Offline Petzy
Northern AB Canada
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07/31/2009 06:42 PM
Posted By jerseygirl on 07/30/2009 05:16 PM


Are you going to become a professional bonder?

Jersey, funny. I'll add it to my resume, why not?! Then, all I have to do in a job interview, is explain what is wrong with me...

 

Photobucket "what happened? did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?"

User is Offline mrmac
San Diego, CA
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07/31/2009 07:07 PM
They look like their doing well! I also found that carrying them in a box or basket was good stress bonding, that was almost better than the car rides. Its reassuring that the trio isn't having issues!
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User is Offline SirThumpsey
355 posts Send Private Message
08/01/2009 08:32 AM
Petzy, There is nothing wrong with you. It is really awesome that you have a way with rabbit bonding. I say, give it a shot! I'd hire you!

User is Offline Petzy
Northern AB Canada
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08/01/2009 10:01 AM

Thanks, Sir Thumpsey. -- In my neck of the woods there is a very limited need for this sort of service.    I do think, however, it is easier to bond rabbits away from their home for obvious reasons. When this bunch arrived, they were very confused from having been displaced from their home and routines. It gave me an advantage.

Here are some photos showing  Valmore with his three sisters, he was the only boy. Excuse the crate, it's not the best set-up, I had them in it only for night times when they were kits. Valmore is the only one of the 4 boys to bond now who had been at my house before but he was little then, and only in the basement (these kits were noisy).

The curious one in front  is Valmore's sister.  Her coat's ticking is more pronounced.

That's Valmore again  behind his two black sisters.

 

The Agouti sister is bigger than Valmore now. (Valmore turning his back here)

As they were from a feral mother (she was caught pregnant), I notice that the agoutis seem to have a heavier coat on them than other domestic rabbits I have had. I'd say it's my imagination but especially their white underside's section of coat is very dense upon examination.  Is this an agouti trait?


 

Photobucket "what happened? did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?"

User is Offline Petzy
Northern AB Canada
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08/01/2009 03:31 PM

Progress today. My plan was to basket Clifford first with Bugs, then with Roger and last with Valmore. I was thinking of pairing him up for a time with each of the three consecutively, from easy to harder bonds. But Clifford surprised me when he didn't jump on Bugs this time like a deprived buck. He was calm. He did begin to 'hang on' to Bugs and there was some mounting but nothing seriously annoying.

I then quickly changed my mind and joined Roger.

the video is explicit but really I thought it went well.

I dared bring in Valmore. He froze, but didn't freak out until muc later, and only mildly.

After Valmore got upset, I petted him hard until he calmed down, then I rocked them on the basket's straps. I left them sitting like this for twenty-five minutes. Note in this photo, Valmore is touching with Clifford but keeping himself together.

i will repeat this tomorrow, and see if they are ready for a less confined space.

Photobucket "what happened? did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?"

User is Offline mrmac
San Diego, CA
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08/01/2009 04:35 PM
Valmore looks much less freaked! Glad to see so much progress!!!
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User is Offline Petzy
Northern AB Canada
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08/01/2009 05:00 PM
You know, mrmac, this time that I've been busy with the quartett I had to confine my own trio a little more than usual to keep them safe and separate. It has helped mine to really get close. Now I find Lint snuggled with Deirdra and Mops on a tiny square tile in the condo!
Photobucket "what happened? did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?"

User is Offline mrmac
San Diego, CA
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08/01/2009 06:00 PM
After I had my three together for a little while Davey and Dexter turned more buddy buddy than Dex and Delilah! So funny how the ones who dont like eachother at first spend more time with eachother in the end! I made my deadline too with wanting them bonded before we left for vacation too! So funny how it all works out in the end!
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User is Offline KatnipCrzy
Holland, MI
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08/02/2009 03:03 PM

wow- that is amazing.  And I love seeing the "tub o' bunnies".

Cotton and Schroeder- Mini Lops Griffin- English Lop

User is Online Sarita
(Dallas)
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08/02/2009 03:25 PM
I think if anyone can do this, you can Petzy :~) What a bunch of beautiful rabbits too. It's interesting to see the dynamics of the bonding too. I think you do have a knack for this.

User is Offline Petzy
Northern AB Canada
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08/02/2009 06:29 PM

Today I left out Bugs. My reasoning was that watching back my clips I felt that he was like a magnet to Clifford and keeping him from attempting interactions with the other two.

Well, Valmore was nippy at first toward Clifford, so I let Roger join in for reassurance (Roger and valmore, even though newly bonded are really hitting it off). Still, Valmore wanted to chase Clifford out of the basket. I shook them up a bit, gently, to freeze up Valmore because he kept aggressing towrad Clifford. It worked. I thought it might be a good time to try the 'bonding in suspense' i had read about.

This is the set-up.

I rocked them, and ended on a good note.

 

this is how it was:

I like this approach for Valmore because he responds little to my attempts of calming him as he is just scared of people touching him.

I spent about 25 minutes all in all including transfers.

Photobucket "what happened? did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?"

User is Offline mrmac
San Diego, CA
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08/02/2009 06:43 PM
I love that idea! I would think that Valmore still being touchy around people would make it a little harder in the bonding aspects. They look somewhat relaxed though!
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User is Offline Petzy
Northern AB Canada
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08/04/2009 01:12 PM

This was taken last night . Watch Roger in this video.  They had been in a pile for about a half hour and it was crowded, Clifford humping the other three a little. When I took Clifford out to call it a session, I waited a little to see if the other three would stir at all, what they would do. Clifford slipped into a trance and Roger reminded Valmore and Bugs that without Clifford, he's second to none. ...

This morning I tried the 4 in a neutral cage together and it was chaos: circling, chasing, nipping, attempted mounting lots of fur plucking, between Valmore and Clifford and between Clifford and Roger. No real biting, though, just fur plucking, posturing and causing a big fuss.

After that I did a paired session with just Valmore and Clifford without any struggles, just quiet sitting.

I will focus on Roger and Clifford tonight, as a pair, possibly in a different area. Roger is the dominant bun in the trio (meaning Roger, Bugs and Valmore). Valmore acts out of defense toward Clifford. Bugs is still fine with Clifford.

Photobucket "what happened? did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?"

User is Online Monkeybun
Hillsboro, Oregon
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08/04/2009 01:40 PM
That's a neat way of doing it, never would have thought of a basket suspended from the ceiling.

I think i recognise that green bin from when I lived in canada... from Superstore I think

User is Offline Petzy
Northern AB Canada
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08/04/2009 01:47 PM
Caught! Haha: yeah: I went shopping for bunnies at the Superstore!! -- The basket, along with a cart (!!!) was sitting in the ditch where I walk in the morning. The cart was demolished. Now I wish I had a shopping cart, too, for more off-the-ground bonding !!
Photobucket "what happened? did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?"

User is Offline mrmac
San Diego, CA
2167 posts Send Private Message
08/04/2009 01:50 PM

What a lucky find! A shopping cart would be great too! I wish I could find one of the little ones that you see in some stores that are for the kids to push around!

Like this, but it's expensive!!!: http://www.globalindustrial.com/gcs...paignId=WP

You can actually find more shopping carts than I thought on ebay! hmmm... 

Clifford's trance is so funny! 

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User is Offline Petzy
Northern AB Canada
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08/04/2009 02:26 PM

...an old stroller (the pram kind) might work, too! Apparently, you can get strollers now for ferrets.

We are having the finest weather, not too hot, but sunny and gentle breeze. I let my trio on the patio, and Lint *knew* something was up on the other side of the board behind him (the new trio). He was on edge.

Photobucket "what happened? did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?"

User is Offline mrmac
San Diego, CA
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08/04/2009 02:31 PM
Haha he's all buggy! Mr. Lint always knows!!! Did Deirdra and Mops pay any attention to 'the group behind the curtain'?
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User is Offline Petzy
Northern AB Canada
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08/04/2009 02:46 PM

They couldn't care less, they knew, however, that Lint was in a bad mood....

Lint and the two proceeded to move to the far south corner of the patio, the farthest spot away from the new trio. Notice, Lint 'hiding' behind them.

 

Photobucket "what happened? did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?"

User is Offline mrmac
San Diego, CA
2167 posts Send Private Message
08/04/2009 03:29 PM

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BINKYBUNNY FORUMS > BONDING > All Male-Neutered Quartett with picture recap

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