Thursday, May 17, 2012 Register
 

Forum

BUNNY 911 - If your rabbit hasn't eaten or pooped in 12-24 hours, call a vet immediately!
Don't have a vet? Check out VET RESOURCES

The subject of intentional breeding or meat rabbits is prohibited. The answers provided on this board are for general guideline purposes only. The information is not intended to diagnose or treat your pet.  It is your responsibility to assess the information being given and seek professional advice/second opinion from your veterinarian and/or qualified behaviorist.

LEADERS:  Beka27   BinkyBunny   Elrohwen   KokaneeandKahlua   LittlePuffyTail   Peppypoo   RabbitPam   Sarita

You must login to post, reply, and view profiles
BINKYBUNNY FORUMS > BONDING > Deirdra & Lint/tooth & Nail update
Last Post by Petzy at 02/07/2010 05:19 PM (93 Replies)
You are not authorized to post a reply.
Printer Friendly
Page 1 of 41234 > >>
Sort:
Author Messages

User is Offline Petzy
Northern AB Canada
Forum Leader
5938 posts Send Private Message
06/10/2009 12:00 PM

I have no more excuses to put off bonding Deidra with Lint since Mops did so well with her.  At this point, Lint hates her. Deirdra isn't as tense as he is, but ten days ago, when I first tried these two, she got in a all-out war with him when she wouldn't be humped by him... she left a bloody bite mark on his ear. Since then, Lint REALLY hates her, and has shown destructive behaviour in his habitat. He is just so angry.

The injury on his ear has healed and I did one stress bonding session in two parts. First part, I put them both in my empty kiddy pool with the hose spraying water in one spot for noise and distraction. They got their feet wet and did not fight or interact in any way. Part two, I then transferred them to my new bonding set-up in a corner of my deck where they hadn't been. I included my very rabbit-friendly dog in the set-up to break up any fights (he can do that). I wanted no blood this time, that was my goal for this session. I don't recommend anyone using a dog  unless the dog is totally 'bunny-proof'. 

I achieved my goal of no blood shed, but I have a long road ahead of me. I can't imagine these two to make peace... but I know they will.

I held more sessions after the stress bonding, with and without Mops in the mix. Lint continues to hate Deirdra and will not even try humping (He must recall vividly what she did last time he tried). Deirdra dared trying to hump him, but no way he would allow it.

Lint is also possessive over Mops. Mops' relationships with either of the two is virtually unaffected, even though there was some displaced aggression from Lint toward him.

I think it will take lots of time, lots of bath tub sessions which I'm going to include today.

this is a video of a session with the trio and no stressors.

this is of Lint and Deirdra alone which is the most intense situation because nothing distracts them. Lint thinking angry thoughts in his corner...

Lint here territorial over his designated "I hate Deirdra" corner...

Deirdra showing nerve, trying to mount Lint

I am pretty sure this set-up will not give much progress; Lint avoids D or chases her off. I am hoping the bath tub will make a difference.

 

Photobucket "what happened? did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?"

User is Offline mrmac
San Diego, CA
2167 posts Send Private Message
06/10/2009 12:28 PM
I love these videos! It is good to see what similarities we are both having with 3! I just get so scared to "let them be". I am so worried it will end in a bad fight that Dexter has no chance of winning! The first time I "let them be" I had to hear Dexter scream after Delilah attacked him, which was terrifying!
signature

User is Offline Petzy
Northern AB Canada
Forum Leader
5938 posts Send Private Message
06/10/2009 01:14 PM

I'm glad i'm not alone... I always have to give myself a little push whenever it's bonding time as i worry about injuries

this was Lint's ear injury from their first meet: (sorry blurry pic)

Photobucket "what happened? did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?"

User is Offline mrmac
San Diego, CA
2167 posts Send Private Message
06/10/2009 01:28 PM
Eek a boo boo! I get so worried about someone getting hurt!
signature

User is Offline jerseygirl
Australia
11414 posts Send Private Message
06/10/2009 06:30 PM

 

I laughed so loud at your dogs "talking" on that 1st video. It's like they're umpiring!
I think the tub should help some as they'll be forced to interact. Was Lint the more dominant with him and Mops? It's seems like he views Deirdra is going to take top bunny position and he's a bit threatened by her. Maybe due to her newness and size? But she kind of just goes about her business - ignoring Lint. From the vids, she doesn't seem that aggressive toward him. The tub should reveal more.  If it turns out that she's not overly dominant and allows Lint to be, I think you might be 'home free'. 

 

I survived the BB site update 2012

User is Offline Petzy
Northern AB Canada
Forum Leader
5938 posts Send Private Message
06/11/2009 10:12 AM

Yes, Jerseygirl, I'm pretty sure Lint feels threatened by Deirdra. Lint is a dominant bunny, humpy and dominant. I guess, Mops just puts up with him because Mops is very relaxed, never humps and generally just doesn't care. Deirdra isn't as submissive as Mops and in her budding friendship with Mops she is actually humping Mops sometimes. I know she won't let Lint hump. Lint knows it, too. He doesn't know how to be with another bun without being the boss.... so he's kind of in shock.... but he's smart and social and I hope he will figure out that there are other ways of relating to other rabbits besides humping them into submission!!!

I did a bath tub session last night, just Deirdra and Lint-- went great in my estimation. They sat together, next to one another, touching,  for the first time without getting in a quarrel.  you can see in the video clip that they were pretty scared, but at least it brought them together.

Photobucket "what happened? did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?"

User is Offline mrmac
San Diego, CA
2167 posts Send Private Message
06/11/2009 10:49 AM
HAHA I love the treats sitting on their heads!!! Looks like it went well!
signature

User is Offline MarkBun
Richmond, CA
2814 posts Send Private Message
06/11/2009 03:53 PM
I would try petting them both at the same time while they're in the tub - give them a little reassurance as well as transferring both of their scents to one another. But you definitely want to go with the stress bonding with those two - Lint reminds me of Maryann when I first started bonding.
My bonding quest with Maryann - Read about a less than easy bonding with two buns - but they did bond!

User is Offline Petzy
Northern AB Canada
Forum Leader
5938 posts Send Private Message
06/11/2009 05:39 PM
Good grief. Lint a distant relative to Maryann, maybe? well, I will definitely try transfer of scent. I am very willing to try anything new since today they got in a nasty fight, their second real fight. Things were calm during a session in the patio corner, until Deirdra started to be happpy and to race. Lint chased after her and she got defensive... things went fast and after a cloud of flying fur had settled I saw both buns on their sides holding each other by a scruff of hair. I let them settle down, petted them, but then ended the session, on a pretty bad note. I needed to check them over, nobody has any scratches or marks. I'm debating whether or not to have a session in the tub tonight late. I think, they need rest but I don't want to leave it at the bad note.
Photobucket "what happened? did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?"

User is Offline Petzy
Northern AB Canada
Forum Leader
5938 posts Send Private Message
06/11/2009 06:02 PM

oh, I forgot. I also had to upgrade my nippage guards on D's condo. well, they serve more as 'boxing guards'  --Lint started boxing at Deirdra at night time again.   I may move one of the buns out of the room for a while if the tub sessions don't work.

Photobucket "what happened? did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?"

User is Offline MarkBun
Richmond, CA
2814 posts Send Private Message
06/12/2009 09:38 AM
On the patio, you should put up a divider - something to break the straight line of chasing. If you have an x-pen, place it along one of the walls but leave the last two panels sticking out - sort of like using one of those oriental folding screens to turn a studio into a semi one bedroom.
My bonding quest with Maryann - Read about a less than easy bonding with two buns - but they did bond!

User is Offline Petzy
Northern AB Canada
Forum Leader
5938 posts Send Private Message
06/12/2009 11:44 AM

I am looking for a new neutral area  that is much smaller than the patio corner but allows more interacting than the bath tub. I never thought of didviding the patio space, this is worth a try. That way I can also section off the corner that Lint has declared his vantage point of fending off Deirdra.

In the meantime, I did more sessions in the tub. At first  I turned the tap on because Lint was biting Deirdra. He stopped. Then he just pouted...

I did the scent transfer, too.

Lint wasn't going to bit, he was relaxing a bit and i rubbed his face into Deirdra's fur.

I will look in my basement to set up another contained zone for them, they have never been in the basement. There are different sounds from the laundry room I could use for stressors.

Photobucket "what happened? did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?"

User is Offline MarkBun
Richmond, CA
2814 posts Send Private Message
06/12/2009 12:06 PM
Hmmm, I've never seen a bunny sit there like Lint does. I think he was almost daring Deirdra to move so he could nip her. I find that some agressive behaviour is triggered when the other rabbit moves. Maryann was more or less content with Dono as long as he didn't move. The moment he did though, she'd turn and bite him. But any event that doesn't end in fur flying is good one.
My bonding quest with Maryann - Read about a less than easy bonding with two buns - but they did bond!

User is Offline Petzy
Northern AB Canada
Forum Leader
5938 posts Send Private Message
06/12/2009 12:30 PM
I think, Lint is bearing a huge grudge because of the ear injury Deirdra inflicted. It put him in a shock at first, then he progressed to just hate her for it. I let 12 days go by after it had happened, but I can feel from him, when I do the sessiions, that he is not ready to even consider D as anything but a threat to him. she just tolerates her because he's stuck in the tub.
Photobucket "what happened? did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?"

User is Offline mrmac
San Diego, CA
2167 posts Send Private Message
06/12/2009 12:55 PM
I think thats the point Delilah and Dexter are at too. You can see it in their eyes, if you werent there watching....it just looks like theyre uncomfortable and 'dealing' with it.
signature

User is Offline Petzy
Northern AB Canada
Forum Leader
5938 posts Send Private Message
06/12/2009 12:56 PM
How do I get to your bonding quest with Maryann? I clicked on the link in your signature but it bounces me to the current forum page.
Photobucket "what happened? did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?"

User is Offline mrmac
San Diego, CA
2167 posts Send Private Message
06/12/2009 12:58 PM
signature

User is Offline jerseygirl
Australia
11414 posts Send Private Message
06/14/2009 01:58 AM

You can really see Lint is out of his zone in the neutral bath tub. You always have some stress bonding up your sleeve. Car ride, washer rider etc. Good for after they've had a scuffle apparently. When I did tub bonding I popped both in a cardboard box one night to take them to the bathroom. I found this was like a stressor so I stomped around the house carrying them this way for a bit longer. So if you can't do the car thing - that might be another option.

I survived the BB site update 2012

User is Offline Petzy
Northern AB Canada
Forum Leader
5938 posts Send Private Message
06/14/2009 06:45 AM
I might do a car ride today but I have been rethinking my approach. I think stress bonding is what first stopped the nasty fighting between them but at this point I can see the same behavior that I dealt with when I bonded Lint with Mops. Small space seems to trigger aggression in Lint. So.... I spent yesterday doing a supervised 'roaming' bonding on the patio. I had all three, plus my dog and noise from my neighbors weed wacker as a stressor. It went well, First Lint avoided D, but he started moving around and inevitably ran into her. She showed interest in him, which he rejected with posturing but no biting.
I also used clicker training as a resort to avoiding fights; I had done clicker training with Lint when I first fostered him last year and my friend reminded me of this the other day. So every time, D and L ran into one another I'd click and every second time I'd click I'd also reward wiith Lint's most irrestible (unhealthy) treat, tiny almond piece. -- It was a long day, breakfast, lunch and dinner on the patio for me (life is tough )
I will try posting videos tomorrow.
Photobucket "what happened? did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?"

User is Offline Petzy
Northern AB Canada
Forum Leader
5938 posts Send Private Message
06/14/2009 01:31 PM

So this weekend is all about bunny-bonding. The weather was in my favor so I scheduled nothing but bonding.

I tried another neutral place not as scary as the bath tub with bad results. I put Lint and Deirdra in a giant travel crate in my basement. They had never been there, nothing was familiar. Lint acted aggressively, as I figured.

This was Friday. My friend phoned me after and  she suggested (she knows that Lint is smart as a rat) that maybe Lint associated Deirdra with only stress and bad situations. Plus, I already knew that Lint gets very territorial and humpy in small spaces, he still displays this type of behavior toward Mops when confined in a small crate. So.... I took a leap of faith and took the sessions to the large area of my patio where Deirdra has her tunnel (figured she'd not want to share with Lint). I put Mops with them as well as the dogs, and evrybody in my neighborhood seemed to be running some kind of machine for yard work. There were no fights but Lint was tense.

 

He spent much time pouting in his 'cheese' box but no chasing and no fighting.

Whenever their paths crossed Lint found a way to avoid her, he jumped over the little barrier in this pic...

 

Yesterday ended on a good note with all three buns in Deirdra's tunnel. I called it  a day after that.

 

Today i decided to put together  just Lint and Deirdra and the dogs and the surroundings were peaceful and quiet. Lint tried to claim the tunnel as his but after a half hour relaxed and allowed Deirdra a place in it.  He was, however, very tense...

I clicked them over with the clicker and rewarded them both with treats. After that, they ate dandelions together, but Deirdra was shy, worried Lint would throw a fit...but he didnd't, he just ate most of the dandies.

They ended up in their favorite spot, respectively, the tunnel (it is big enough for me to go in if I had to), and Lint relaxed, grooming...

They both went to sleep/grooming/doing cecals in the tunnel and spent two hours. Ended in good note.

i will try again, the three together, later on today because there are also jealousy issues over Mops coming from Lint. ... for now, I'm happy that there is some degree of tolerance. I will keep doing one bath tub session per day as well so i can get Lint to sit close to her and do more scent transfers.

 

Photobucket "what happened? did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?"

User is Offline Petzy
Northern AB Canada
Forum Leader
5938 posts Send Private Message
06/14/2009 01:39 PM

so here's the dandelion video clip that I messed up...

embed width="448" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" src="http://i630.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid630.photobucket.com/albums/uu23/mopsimilian/dandeliontogether.flv">

Photobucket "what happened? did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?"

User is Offline Petzy
Northern AB Canada
Forum Leader
5938 posts Send Private Message
06/14/2009 01:41 PM

Photobucket "what happened? did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?"

User is Offline Petzy
Northern AB Canada
Forum Leader
5938 posts Send Private Message
06/14/2009 01:44 PM
Wow, how many attempts does it take me to post a video clip??

Oh, I wanted to say, THANKS MRMAC for the link !! -- BTW, how is the bonding going at your end?
Photobucket "what happened? did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?"

User is Offline jerseygirl
Australia
11414 posts Send Private Message
06/14/2009 05:48 PM
Bonding weekend - now that's a commitment. He appeared calmer so long as D kept her distance. She doesn't seem to do anything antagonistic though does she?
lol "doing cecals" Ah yes. I called this watching cecal sequels. Quite boring when you're sitting in a cold bathroom!
I survived the BB site update 2012

User is Offline Petzy
Northern AB Canada
Forum Leader
5938 posts Send Private Message
06/15/2009 03:32 AM
Deirdra does nothing antagonistic. This is what gives me hope. But can you bond two bunnies who won't allow humping respectively?
I was tying my bathroom for too long (only 1 bathroom in my house) so I am still planning the car ride as another technique (didn't end up going for it yesterday), but I need to enlist an assistant.

I have noticed a progress though; when I first build D's condo in their room, Lint used to nip at me when I'd go in it or get close to it to feed etc. He has stopped that.
Photobucket "what happened? did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?"

User is Offline mrmac
San Diego, CA
2167 posts Send Private Message
06/15/2009 12:56 PM
Ohh its going ok...They cant seem to not nip Dexter when he walks by but he doesnt ask for it at all. He just wants to be a part of their little group! I dont know if I would call it progress or not?! Dierdra and Lint seem to be doing a little better! Ahhh the cecals...how many can one little bunny eat during that time?! Its nuts!
signature

User is Offline Petzy
Northern AB Canada
Forum Leader
5938 posts Send Private Message
06/15/2009 12:58 PM

Today all three rabbits together and the dogs. Separated Lint when I couldn't watch them. They are sharing the tunnel, as long as there is a distance between Deirdra and Lint. (3 feet at least).

 

They took turns sitting with Mops.  First Lint....

 

Then Deirdra...

Photobucket "what happened? did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?"

User is Offline mrmac
San Diego, CA
2167 posts Send Private Message
06/15/2009 01:06 PM
Aww! they seem to be getting along quite well!
signature

User is Offline Petzy
Northern AB Canada
Forum Leader
5938 posts Send Private Message
06/15/2009 02:07 PM

This is my bonding area. It's a bit ramshackle .

Since Lint hasn't chased Deirdra at all, I'm allowing the larger space for now under supervision.

 

Behind the white mini shed is the coveted tunnel...

Photobucket "what happened? did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?"

User is Offline Petzy
Northern AB Canada
Forum Leader
5938 posts Send Private Message
06/16/2009 07:43 AM

I have had the trio of Lint, Mops and Deirdra together for 8 hours each on three coonsecutive days. I wanted to avoid the initial aggression Lint has toward Deirdra during the beginning of each session by allowing long continuous times together. I think, it's working. There are friction points that trigger aggressive behavior from Lint, but there have been no fights. Mops has been great, serving as a common denominator between the other two. Yesterday, I had two major highlights happening that I caught on camera.

One was the trio lounging together, in close proximity.

 

Another highlight was dinner time. Lint usually will not tolerate Deirdra eating with him, but here.....

Right now, Lint will not allow Deirdra in the mini shed. I'm thinking of trying them out free-range in the room today... just for a short sesison, with any hiding/chasing places blocked off. I definitey want to add a stressor, not sure which.  i'm still wondering, though, if two rabbits can bond that won't submit to one another.

Photobucket "what happened? did something happen or can I just go back to my hay?"
You are not authorized to post a reply.
Page 1 of 41234 > >>

BINKYBUNNY FORUMS > BONDING > Deirdra & Lint/tooth & Nail update

Bunnies Do Binkies
You agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy by using this website.
Copyright 2006-2012 BinkyBunny.com - All Rights Reserved