BINKYBUNNY FORUMS > HOUSE RABBIT Q & A > Concern About a Rabbit
Last Post by BeccaLovesMichy at 11/20/2012 8:07 AM (132 Replies)
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User is Offline BeccaLovesMichy
52 posts Send Private Message
10/05/2012 4:20 AM

Hello Community,

 

I do not, nor have i ever, owned a rabbit.  i had a guinea pig when i was little and of course lots of cats and dogs.  i have been researching proper bunny care lately and here's why:  i am watching a 10 year old girl after school for the past month or so.  she got a bunny as a pet (added to an already full apartment of 1 dog 2 cats!) FOR EASTER.  the problem is this rabbit is being NEGLECTED!!  i don't know what to do other than sharing my new knowledge with the girl in hopes she might listen, but it's a bad situation.  her mom is a single mom and fairly young...i heard from my sister (who works with her) that she just filed or is soon to file for bankruptcy.  this rabbit (bun bun) is currently living on their porch/balcony (i don't believe there is a way for him/her to fall down or escape...it's been since easter) with a cage that i now realize is too small placed in an open recession in the wall.  it's not a living cage- there's nothing in it but poop all over the bottom.  his food and water are kept on the porch area - he is only fed pellety rabbit food as far as i can tell.  i'm not surprised because this was obviously an indulgent purchase with no research.  i honestly think they are simply ignorant of what to do and don't care enough on top of it.  plus i am always bringing snacks for my charge as i can't see a drop of fresh produce anywhere - for the CHILD let alone the rabbit!  one time they ran out of cat food and were giving them giant dog food bits for a few days.  it's a total mess, but i am just the part-time after school sitter.  i can't fix their financial situation...i can't really order them to surrender their bunny.  i had nightmares about this bunny's welfare, it's really eating at my conscience.   i was thinking i could try implementing some homemade utilities like a cardboard litterbox with newspaper?  would that work?  bun doesn't even have a chewing apparatus - he was chewing a wooden chair!  i told her to give him cardboard and she says they have none...   and yes....they keep him outside at nighttime.  that probably wasn't an issue spring/summer temp wise, but it is getting cold where we live.  his sleeping area is squeezed inside the closet in a nook somewhere, but there is no actual bed for him.  i thought i could get my charge to help me clean the poop out of the cage, move it out of the closet (it's serving no purpose other than a toilet) and at least lay down blankets?  if i can't convince them to bring him in soon...though i don''t know what's worse.  at least he can move freely around the porch - that cage is NOT BIG ENOUGH!  i don't know how often they let him in to run about.  she did not rabbit-proof the room or keep him in eye line.  i was running about checking on him.

 

Does anyone have any advice?  if not what to do permanently, at least some little things i could afford to implement myself to make him any amount more comfortable.  i was going to bring some greens for him today - it says this should be introduced gradually at 3 months of age?

 

thank you all for reading,

sincerely,

Rebecca


User is Offline Roberta
Wanneroo, Western Australia
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10/05/2012 5:35 AM
Are you in a position to offer to adopt the rabbit and do you think the Mother would be relieved and accept or be offended? That would be the best solution but people aren't always willing to admit they are not up to a task. At 3 months he will be reaching puberty and he is going to start to spray and will need to be desexed, if left he might also become aggressive especially if food is in short supply. Possibly offer to buy the bunny from them especially if the little girl does not want to spend the time with him now he is growing. He will need hay, vet care, fresh greens proper housing, grooming and room to exercise.
I am sure the others will also have some good ideas but some of them may not come back on line for a little while so don't think you are being ignore if it takes a few hours for others to respond.
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User is Offline BeccaLovesMichy
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10/05/2012 6:01 AM
thank you so much for your prompt reply! unfortunately, there's no way i could take the rabbit off their hands. i live in an apartment with my dad and dog, and i've been begging my dad to let me adopt a cat for a year. he just gets angry and he's right, i need to wait until i have my own place and enough to support myself first. i am afraid they would react in offense most likely (the mom probably WOULD be relieved though, yet offended. the kid claims to love the bunny, but honestly she seems disinterested to me.) i have no idea if it's male or female and neither does the child ("we can't tell yet cus it's too young" ???) she thinks it's a girl though... she got it for easter (which in itself would make a person ill at the thought!) so it's at least ...6 months? on top of everything else i told you, i don't think this rabbit is getting the love and socialization it needs. when she let it inside it seemed not afraid but disinterested in petting and people. it went behind the couch and tried to burrow under the carpet/wall area. i had it in my head that a delicate social creature like a rabbit may turn aggressive and weird if left in such isolation, no? i'll try my best. thank you again. if worse comes to worst i could talk them into surrendering it to a shelter nearby (or ask them advice.) there's a no-kill shelter annex in our local mall, though i know they don't accept drop-off animals (only through main shelter) they might make exception for a rabbit. i would be afraid he/she might just be euthanized if i take it to a normal shelter...

User is Offline tobyluv
South Carolina
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10/05/2012 6:04 AM
I agree with Roberta. If you are willing and able to take the bunny, you can offer to adopt or buy him and tell the owners how fond you are of him and would love to take him home with you. Or if you knew of a rabbit savvy person who actually did want a rabbit, you could mention to the owners that you have a friend who wanted a rabbit or a companion for her rabbit, and would they be willing to give or sell their bunny to this person.

You can speak about the costs involved with having rabbits and what they need for proper feeding, care and housing if you think they would listen to you and heed your advice. But if they are adamant about keeping the bunny, hopefully you can better his living conditions and provide him with good quality hay, veggies and pellets.

User is Offline tobyluv
South Carolina
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10/05/2012 6:10 AM
I just saw your post where you said you are unable to take the rabbit, so that's out, and you didn't mention knowing anyone who would provide a good home for the rabbit, so I guess that's out too. If you do know of some rescues or no kill shelters, they are a possibility, but they are often full. Rabbits don't usually fare well in regular shelters (humane societies).

If the rabbit is 6 months old, he/she can definitely have greens. You could start with romaine lettuce, or kale or parsley, or any of the dark leafy greens. There are lists of good veggies here and on the House Rabbit website.

If it is a male and 6 months old, you should be able to see testicles by now.

I know this poor bunny is a worry for you. I hope that he can go to a better home, or have his living conditions improved.

User is Offline BeccaLovesMichy
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10/05/2012 6:42 AM
thank you toby.  it's such a hard situation because i'm already using some of my dad's food stores to bring snacks for her kid!  i don't have much money either (which i why i don't have a pet of my own.)  the child has some friends who live in an apartment in the same complex.  they seem like huge animal lovers, and very thoughtful, gentle children.  they may be willing to take bun, however i'll def have to brainstorm how to bring that subject up...  i know this kind of thing happens all the time and is a huge problem, but i've never come quite so face to face with animal neglect.  i didn't even realize at first that it WAS neglect (A. i didn't know zilch about rabbits and B. i didn't want to admit to what i was really seeing.  at first i thought it was odd they keep him outside, but not until it's gotten colder and he's still out there did i really start balking.)   this kid has obviously not been raised properly and may also be being neglected in ways.  as i mentioned, they have no food in the house that i feel a child should have.  she's alone a lot (her mom works two jobs.  her dad is now in jail for neglecting his younger child from a different mother, so he is absentee... i am telling you, it's a problem on top of problems for these people.  why they keep investing in animals, i don't know...)  i saw her hit her spaniel dog on the head once and i chided her, so she doesn't have a fundamental understanding of how to treat animals from the get go.  i look forward to having my own kids so i can raise them to be responsible people.

User is Offline Beka27
Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
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10/05/2012 6:59 AM
Wow, there are so many different factors being mentioned in this thread. As stated, the major problem is that you can't take the rabbit in. Shelters are overrun and they don't typically have space, so a shelter would most likely not be an option. The only way I would bring anything up to the mother is if you were able to take the rabbit permanently, or even short-term until you could find a him new home.

I would be hesitant about providing fresh veggies since the rabbit would only be getting them sporadically, and if he reacts badly, you have no way to check up on him, and I doubt they'd take him to the vet. A better investment would be fresh grass hay, and just hope they feed it everyday.

The other option would be to talk to the mother, tell her that you think her bunny is so sweet and if they ever decide to "get rid of" him, to let you know because you'd love to have him. This plants the seed in her head that she could have an "out" if needed WITHOUT criticizing their care. When/if it happens that she's willing to surrender the rabbit to you, at that point you could take him and just "deal with" your father's annoyance; at least you'd know the rabbit was out of that situation. Maybe not the best and most honest way to go about things, but it would serve it's purpose. Then you would just need to talk to your father and explain that you're looking for a new home, etc... and that having him is just temporary. You may even find an animal lover friend who is willing to house him and you maybe split costs for the rabbit.

Meadow..... Photobucket ...... Max, my angel bunny

User is Offline tanlover14
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10/05/2012 7:55 AM
This is a horrible situation -- but the bun is lucky that at least SOMEONE is making an effort to care about him/her. I would have to agree with Beka about the veggies. The most important thing for him right now is to have grass. Maybe you can also bring to the attention of the mother -- that by now, you can definitely tell whether the bun is a boy or girl and that if it's a girl she NEEDS to be spayed. Girls that aren't spayed have an 80% chance of getting uterine cancer. An added vet cost may, along with your proposal to take the bun (and find it a proper home) may be the nudge this lady needs to get the bun out of her care.

It's so sad when animals aren't being cared for properly...
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User is Offline Sam and Lady's Human
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10/05/2012 8:35 AM
Wow there is a lot, so I'm only going to touch on the bunny part.

I know its not an option to bring her home, but have you talked to your parents about it? What would they think of you fostering and searching for a new home with the promise of dropping it off at a shelter after say, 4 months if you can't find one? That way it does give the bunny a chance, as a minor it teaches you some responsibility without putting much on your parents, and I'd say that it gives the rescue/shelter a couple months to get the bunny altered, recovered along with whatever other needs it has just in time to hopefully be adopted out by easter (to again, hopefully a better home!)

User is Offline LBJ10
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10/05/2012 6:20 PM
I like the idea of trying to find the rabbit a new home. You would need to tread carefully though, so you don't offend the mother or anything. It is possible though that she would be relieved.

In the meantime, does the rabbit have a litter box? I didn't see you mention it anywhere, but I may have missed it. The best thing that you could do for him is to create a clean place for him to sit. He needs a litter box with an appropriate litter and a clean flat surface (no litter, no mesh flooring). If you need to, you can use cardboard to cover up any mesh flooring. Can you bring cardboard from your own home? You could use it to make a little house for him too.

Having access to hay is more important than veggies. I agree with Beka about the veggies. Giving them to him here and there isn't a good idea. Plus I would worry about him getting used to all this great stuff, only to have it suddenly disappear if you were no longer looking after this girl.

User is Offline BeccaLovesMichy
52 posts Send Private Message
10/06/2012 1:59 AM
thanks for all the replies everyone. yesterday actually i got up the gumption to say something to the kid, though unfortunately she was already in a very grumpy mood. she seemed unresponsive about it and a bit defensive. but then without saying anything she grabbed her poop shovel and headed onto the porch to clean up his area. i helped her (a lot. there was so much poop. and a blanket drenched in poop and pee. we ended up tossing most of it over the balcony to throw away, thank glob.) it was a lot of work - the floor is like a wooden barn floor so it's hard to wash. we got rid of the cage (she said it was an old puppy cage and they had another one downstairs) and filled the area with a soft blanket. i used a shoebox with newspaper in it and put a bit of her poop in there because it's all i had and could think of. i hope she doesn't soil the blanket because there are few resources here. i examined the food and they were giving it adult rabbit food (blend of fruits, nuts, pellets and timothy hay) now they are giving it a wildlife formula with mostly seeds! it's actually FOR wild animals. poor B (the kid) finally said to me, in a defensive way, "i want her to come in, i do want her to be happy" her mom got the rabbit from some friend who has a lot of outdoor rabs and told her they could viably live outdoors! there ya go! ignorance breeds ignorance. she asked her at work if she could move the rabbit inside (i really galvanized her into action) but the mom said "the bunny is fine" ????

i think there's a little confusion about my own situation. i am not a minor. i'm living with my dad (not both parents) while i save a little money and look into graduate school...so yeah, i'm an adult. which makes the idea of sneaking a rabbit into my dad's place even worse because it's his place (after the recent stress of divorce from my mother) and i'm just living here temporarily getting help and not paying rent. he's already doing me huge favors here. it might even push him over the edge and get me kicked out. plus i don't have money to support this creature, i can't even support myself on my own. (that's why i would never get one in the first place, not right now anyway!) the mom did not seem mad when she got home and saw our changes, or that i was butting my nose in, so that's good. i'm just afraid they probably won't maintain it. i did feed the rabbit a few carrots, which he at first refused, but then ate, before i read that you don't thin k i should... i may be reading too much into it, but he showed no interest in my fresh veggies (for awhile) or piece of apple, and he rubbed on the cardboard and gnawed a bit, but then had no interest. i mostly brought it as a gnawing object. he also did not seem to WANT to come inside and run around! the advice i implored was mostly regarding how i might add a bit of care while i am there (though i guess that wouldn't help in the long run) and about addressing the issue with the mom. i can always have my sister talk to the mom as they are friends. i'll keep working at it. thanks!

User is Offline Beka27
Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
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10/06/2012 3:01 AM
Do you have a public library nearby (and does the girl have a library card)? If you can take her to the library to pick out rabbit care "starter" books (again using HER card) that might encourage her to read about rabbits and at least get some baseline, age-appropriate knowledge. When I was young, I always enjoyed learning about different pets (this has obviously followed me into adulthood, not everyone joins pet care forums). I feel like if you could increase HER interest in the rabbit, maybe SHE could prod her mom into providing some better food, litter, etc... Worst case scenario, if you could get some inexpensive grass hay and maybe provide old newspapers and teach her to take care of the cage that would help the rabbit.

Rabbits are resilient. They *can* live outside in a protected space and they can adapt to less than ideal care. When you're on a site like BB, we are providing (and encouraging others to provide) the gold standard of rabbit care, but I know there are many more rabbits receiving much less. If you can help implement some small changes, that would at least be something.
Meadow..... Photobucket ...... Max, my angel bunny

User is Offline BB
San Francisco Area
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10/06/2012 8:14 PM
I think that you are handling this very well. Since you can't take the bunny in yourself (and doubt they would give the bunny up anyway right now --- but don't be surprised that in a year from now, that if things don't change, they'll be looking for an out.). But right now, the best thing you can do is do what you are doing and little by little begin to offer more and more help. I was in a similar situation with client of my husband's and I had to proceed carefully.

Could you print out some pages from the net? You can use this site, or rabbit.org (if you haven't seen that site -it's a great resource)

This is a great little booklet just for kids who are caring for bunnies http://www.sandiegorabbits.org/adop...orbook.pdf
It's meant to be a coloring book, but it doesn't have to be a coloring book -- it's just a good resource of information written FOR KIDS.

Just ease yourself in like you are doing, and hopefully slowly but surely, you will be able to provide a better life for the bunny with this family and maybe even they will form a bond. But if not, then I can almost bet that they will look at you as a resource and the day will come when they may ask if you know someone who wants a bunny, and that can be your move to help them find another home if it looks like that is going to be the best choice in the future.

Thank you for getting involved. The fact that you have never owned a rabbit, but already have some of the basics down, is wonderful. You have a big heart and maybe both the bunny and the child will benefit from what you have to offer this situation.

User is Offline BeccaLovesMichy
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10/08/2012 11:52 AM

Thank you Beka and BB, your replies were very helpful (and also very sweet!)  I have some good news on this front.  Since being gone over the weekend, the rabbit used the makeshift litterbox that we put in his closet area!!  i was so excited, i honestly thought i'd find a totally soiled blanket.  the only problem was i didn't have much paper to put in it and the urine soaked through the box...  i also let bun out to run around and was discouraged that indoors, he pooped and peed outside of the litterbox/newspaper area i set up.  i figure he just doesn't think of it as his home turf so he doesn't know where to go.  the second time though, he pooped AND peed on the paper!  i was so proud.  but then he pooped off the paper again...  do you think he gets the concept?  or maybe going on the paper was not intentional.  same issue though of the pee soaking through the paper into the carpet.  and the pee smells awful - the poop is actually so easy to clean up, not messy or smelly at all.  it's just he poops so much.  i'll get it all cleaned up and then he does more!  that's herbivores for you i guess. 

 

i laid down the facts with the kid and i told her "if your mom refuses to let him in for the winter, you need to see if you can find someone to take him in."  i told her he probably would die if left out in winter...maybe that was a bit harsh, but she needs to be galvanized soon.  it was very cold today, in the forties/fifties, and it's only october.  she assured me she wouldn't let that happen, though she also said her mom told her the bunny could not come inside even when it becomes winter...that was shocking to me, as this lady is a good person at heart and i know she loves her other animals.  i'm thinking that  the mom doesn't think of a pet rabbit as equivalent to a dog or cat - in terms of needs and care and love.   she thinks "the bunny is fine."  all it takes is a simple google search!  the mom says the rabbit smells bad and wouldn't use a litter box inside (she probably was trying to get it to use the catbox, i would suspect.) 

 

i'm happy though because the rabbit has really perked up a lot.  he seems to want to hang out around us and is running around more, having a good time, likes to interact with the cat and dog.  he kept trying to chew on my boot (that i was wearing at the time!) he does this funny thing where he jumps and spasmodically kicks his legs (i was assuming it's just a cute quirk and not an indication of injury.)  i think i'm starting to love him actually   do you guys have advice on the pee front?  just more newspaper?  i went around to neighbors with her to find old newspaper and it wasn't very lucrative.  i bet puppy pee pads would be effective, but that would require buying some!  she was talking about clearing out her closet and keeping him in there for winter, which i guess is better than naught, though could lead to a ruined carpet and destruction, right?


User is Offline BeccaLovesMichy
52 posts Send Private Message
10/08/2012 12:04 PM
beka, is there a suggestion for where to purchase cheap grass hay?  also, thank you for your advice, it's already working.  B seems very perked up on the subject of her rabbit - she was practically begging me to take her around asking for newspaper and suggesting ways to keep him inside.  she seems to be absorbing the info i share very well.  i think there's just been a little misguidance in how she has grown up (she was wanting to buy stuff she doesn't need from a jewelry shop and a new sparkly wallet, even though rabbit needs basic things.)  she doesn't know how to put more important things ahead of her extraneous wants.  plus i don't think her mom has explained their financial situation to her very well, because the kid seems to have a big spender kind of attitude....

User is Offline zoologist
Orlando, Fl
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10/08/2012 12:39 PM
When a bunny jumps and spasmodically kicks its legs in the air we call that a binky. It means that the bunny is SUPER happy! It's an awesome thing when they binky
-Jessy

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User is Offline BeccaLovesMichy
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10/08/2012 1:56 PM
ha!  i had no idea!  so that's where the binky bunny name comes from...that only makes it that much more adorable   it also kind of makes my heart feel warm that i may have contributed to his binky

User is Offline IsabellaRobyn
Scotland
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10/08/2012 2:58 PM
I've been following this thread and I'm so glad you are helping them out. Sometimes I wish you could just slap people in the face and tell them what they are doing is basically neglecting their animals! If I were you I would be giving her a real telling but I understand that you're not really in the position to do that. I'll keep reading all your updates! Sounds like some good stuff is happening on your end if the little one is doing binkies and everything!
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User is Offline Roberta
Wanneroo, Western Australia
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10/08/2012 3:24 PM
Personally I find the Free Local Newspaper on the racks in the local shopping centre is an excellent source of paper. I usually lurk through on Saturday and grab a fist full. Next time you are out and about check out the corner shops, malls etc. There is usually a free news publication of some sort that no one will object to you taking a dozen copies or so. The pee'ing is possibly an age and or territory thing. Note the spot he does it most and put the litter tray there and see if he uses it more often.
As to the girl, well, I think any little girl with cash to burn and an eye for bling is always going to put the shiny pretty stuff first but eventually you might be able to get her to split the priority. It would be especially difficult if she is not use to having much and considers these sorts of comfort acquisitions as a way of improving her life. (We've all been there)
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User is Offline LittlePuffyTail
New Brunswick, Canada
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10/09/2012 1:03 AM
I just want to chime in that I think it's wonderful that you are so concerned and trying to improve this bunny's situation. They need us to stand up for them!
Proud to be a Bunny Hugger and a voice for the voiceless
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User is Offline Beka27
Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
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10/09/2012 3:15 AM
I will say that I know ADULTS who put the "shiny bling" in front of, not only their pets, but oftentimes their HUMAN children: "Yes, you have two kids in diapers, but you should go get a mani/pedi. That's a good use of $60." *rolls eyes*

As far as hay, the cheapest option you'll find will be farm, horse-quality hay. You can typically get a bale for under $10. The issue is storage. This is a BALE of hay, and bales expand once opened. Or if you have feed stores nearby, you might be able to buy a smaller, more manageable quantity.

It is entirely possible/likely that his pooping and peeing is territorial marking. They mark their space, especially when unaltered. This is the next issue. Litter-training can be difficult when rabbits are not neutered. This is not something that most people are aware of, but when we are all talking about our "free-roam house rabbits", in 95% of cases, these rabbits are spay/neutered.

The other issue, especially with males, is that their urine can be pungent, very musky and stinky, when not neutered. I don't doubt that the mom thinks the rabbit smells bad. I have smelled unneutered male bunnies and they do smell bad.

BUT, I am not thinking that neutering is something she is willing to have done, and you don't have the means (or the right/responsibility) to do this yourself. So the bun is going to be stinky and may not have perfect litter habits. You've reached sort of an impasse.
Meadow..... Photobucket ...... Max, my angel bunny

User is Offline Theresa
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10/09/2012 3:40 AM

BeccaLovesMichy -

First, let me say that I think its AWESOME that you have stepped up to help out this bunny/family combo - I think they will be surprised at how much personality a bunny has when he's in an optimum environment!

As for a cheap alternative for a litter pan - if you (or the mom) could come up with about $15, they could have a very nice set up (as shown below) that would really cut down on the odor and help immensely with the bun's litter habits....

I don't know where you are located, or if you even have access to these items, but if you can find a place to get these. The prices I list are particular to the Midwest, so that depends on where you are located.....

Plastic dish pan - $1 at a dollar store
Plastic canvas - $2 at a craft store - and can be cut with regular scissors to fit inside the plastic dish pan
40-lb bag of wood fuel pellets at a Tractor Supply store - $5
Small square bale of hay, horse quality - approx $5

Take the dish pan, pour in a 1/2-inch layer of wood pellets. Cut the plastic canvas to fit inside, and put that in on top of the pellets. Then put a handful of hay spread out on top of the plastic canvas.

The bunny will love to go into the litter pan to eat the hay, and will poo and pee in there while he's in there. Each day, you can lift out the plastic grade and dump the hay/poo. Then use a plastic cup of some kind to scoop out the peed-on pellets - you will be able to tell where he peed, cuz the pellets break down to sawdust and absorb the pee. Once you have all the sawdust clumps scooped out, add some more pellets to have an even layer, put the plastic canvas back down over it, and put in another handful of hay. Repeat the next day.

Some people will say that the wood fuel pellets are bad because they are chemically treated - but since the rabbit never touches the pellets, you should be okay. Before my Roscoe was neutered, I had to change the box every day, but now that he's neutered, the smell isn't as bad, so I can usually change the box every other day.

I don't know if it's an option or if the $15 is something either of you can come up with, but just thought I'd describe what has worked in our household.....

 

EDITED TO ADD:  Also wanted to add that an unaltered rabbit will still probably have "accidents" or marking episodes, and will most likely still leave poo pellets around to mark territory, but you might get lucky (like I was) and at least have a bunny that would pee only in the litter box.  Ya never know!


User is Offline BeccaLovesMichy
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10/09/2012 4:02 AM

actually you'd be surprised.  there's clearly a reason this person has filed for bankruptcy, and it's because she's been spending beyond her means...i feel to a certain extent for them, but getting all these pets (recently too.  i don't know if it was a tall tale but B told me her mom got her cat chloe for her as a .......valentine's gift.  what the heck?!  my mom got us a card and a tiny snoopy box of chocolates!  and i thought that was a lot for a greeting card holiday )  the cat is also unfixed, though is always indoors praise the lord, and now that i know this it makes sense because she's always going nuts.  they, of course, seem to cut spending in the oddest places.  there were several different instances where a dictionary, gluestick, and calculator were needed for homework/learning and there weren't any.  yet she has a nintendo DS, cable (not basic), and a kindle.  now what is a child who exhibits extreme resistance towards reading going to do with a kindle on her own?  i've never seen her touch it.  we have a perfectly huge library in this town that is nearby - as to beka's advice, i'd probably have to get a library card for/with her.

 

 

there is one area he/she chooses to go to the bathroom in.  i got him to go on the paper once, but for some reason though he'll use the cardboard "litter box" in his living space, but won't get in it in the house.  thanks for the advice on the free newspaper, i think that's a great idea!  (as per the sex of the rabbit, i honestly don't notice any testicles there...but the urine does stink to high heaven, though the rabbit itself smells fine! )

 

ps. thank you to you and everyone else for listening to me rant about this situation (not just the rabbit part.)  it seems lame, but that's a big reason i came on here, to let loose and commiserate about how strange and unpleasant this whole living situation is for this family...


User is Offline Beka27
Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
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10/09/2012 4:08 AM
It's not lame at all. You have a big heart but limited resources and rights to this rabbit. You're doing a great job at least doing something. Maybe just do what you can for a year and see what's different in their life and yours.
Meadow..... Photobucket ...... Max, my angel bunny

User is Offline BeccaLovesMichy
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10/09/2012 4:13 AM
thank you very much, littlepuffy!  i have a great deal of concern for animals in general.  i have already tried to plant good things in this girl's head (pet stores/puppy mills are evil, it's bad to breed your pets, you should not disturb nature - she wanted to bring a woolly caterpillar in as a pet.)  she impishly admitted she had thoughts of "getting a boy cat for chloe."  this kind of mentality needs to be squelched immediately!!!

User is Offline BeccaLovesMichy
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10/09/2012 4:15 AM
thank you, isabellarobyn!  it's nice to know people are supporting!  it's so funny to find out that binkies are a "thing" with rabbits lol i thought he was just being silly on his own

User is Offline bullrider76543
Joplin MO
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10/09/2012 4:28 AM
wow I am sorry I am just catching up on this post. but WOW!! there is a lot going on, all I can say keep caring like you do!!! I respect your drive!!
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User is Offline BeccaLovesMichy
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10/09/2012 5:30 AM
thank you thank you! this site has been of much help and affirmation for me that i'm doing the right things. as far as i can see it there are two options for this lady and neither one will end well for her. option 1: force her child to give away her rabbit, after purchasing it for her in the first place and then taking it away. result: child is sad and angry at mom, but rabbit is (hopefully) safer and happier. plus they don't have the responsibility anymore. option 2: mom forces child to keep rabbit outside during freezing cold temperatures. result: rabbit drops dead or catches ill and, without vet care, dies. child is sad (possibly traumatized) and mad at mom for forcing rabbit outside only to die. the only difference between these scenarios is that rabbit is alive and well in one and sick and dying/dead in the other. i can talk to them and try to help them out, but the most frustrating thing is that i can't make them CARE.

now i have one more question for now: is my assumption accurate that bun will get sick and die if left out in a closet on the porch with no other heat during the entire winter? or do you guys think he might pull through in a worst case scenario such as that?

User is Offline BeccaLovesMichy
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10/09/2012 5:40 AM
wow theresa, that is a great idea, thank you.  you do end up with poopy hay though, right?  that you just throw away?  and how does the plastic stay clean from the pee (how does the pee get to the pellet part with the plastic in between?)...do you need to rinse it off when you change the box???  i wasn't sure if we were supposed to say where we live according to the site rules, but i live in upstate new york.  it gets COLD here!  but i'm sure i could find all those things.

User is Offline Theresa
64 posts Send Private Message
10/09/2012 5:56 AM

Becca -

The "plastic canvas" is actually a plastic grid with small square holes, so the pee goes right through. And yeah, you do end up with poop and hay mixed together, so you have to throw it away. But it's just a handful a day, so cost effective. If the thought of the two grosses you out, you can just put the hay at one end of the box or hang a hay rack over it. I've just found that my bun prefers to sit on top of his hay in his litter box. Some say it protects their feet from getting sore standing on the grid. I don't rinse off the plastic every day unless it's really soiled, but I do soak both the box and the plastic grid in hot water/white vinegar once a week.

If you're in upstate NY, it might cost you a bit more than the prices I've shown. My sis lives in upstate NY on a farm/ranch, I will ask her what hay costs up there right now and get back to you.

There is a great video on Youtube that shows the whole litter set up and cleaning set up that I just described. Bet you could search for "bunny litter box cleaning" or something like that and find it....

My bun is a Flemmie - a really big rabbit - so the dish pan was too small. I had to get an under-bed box at Walmart instead, which cost me $4....

 

EDITED TO ADD:  Sis says small bale of hay in upstate NY (north of Saratoga) is about $4 a bale right now - if that helps at all.


User is Offline BeccaLovesMichy
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10/09/2012 6:09 AM

ah, holes in the plastic makes sense!  no haha it does not gross me out at all.  i've been touching his poop with my bare hands at some points lol (i wash them of course!!!!) i was just thinking it's sad to have to throw some of it away when he needs to eat it so badly and has none at the moment...thanks for finding that info out for me, i could def spare four bucks...only probably is of course it is short term - the actual owners would have to start buying it at some point, but maybe if they knew how affordable it could be they'd be more apt to do so.

 

i'll have to look up farms nearby - can you just go to a local farm?  there sure are plenty around upstate, and i do live about 20-25 minutes from saratoga, so that's close.

 

ps. i don't know what kind of rabbit bun bun is...he's about medium sized, black, with hanging ears!  and possibly a girl, i don't know!


User is Offline Theresa
64 posts Send Private Message
10/09/2012 6:40 AM
Look in the local paper in the classfieds for ads regarding "hay for sale" etc - or if you have a Tractor Supply store nearby, they can probably tell you where to buy some. Or if you know anyone who has a farm? They would probably sell you some or even give you some. I'm lucky, my boss has a small hobby farm, and he keeps me supplied with hay at no charge. He gave me a small square bale about a month ago, and I'm only half way through it - though that may change as my bun gets older and eats less pellets and more hay....

I do supplement with Timothy hay that I bought at our Theisens, which is our version of Tractor Supply... I hope it works out, Rebecca, for this bun and the family. It's a big responsibility for a child that age if the mom isn't that involved in the process. I had a guinea pig when I was her age, and I know NOW that there were things I should have done differently that would have made his life a lot better.

User is Offline BeccaLovesMichy
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10/09/2012 7:42 AM
i had a guinea too, and let me tell you, my parents did A LOT of work cleaning his cage every week. i played with him a lot and fed him, but they did all the truly hard work (which was probably a mistake my dad admits.)

so sorry to keep blabbing and bugging you guys, but i was just chopping a watermelon and was about to throw away the rind, when it crossed my mind to give it to bun to chew...? watermelon/rind is not on the good or bad fruit/veg list... would that be a good idea? or a very bad one?

User is Offline tanlover14
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10/09/2012 2:01 PM
Becca -- YOU LIVE IN UPSTATE NY?! I'm from Upstate NY! I'm sure you can find some good quality hay being from around Saratoga! Horses, horses, galore!

I'm so happy you are attempting to give this bunbun a better life!! As for the watermelon, correct me if I'm wrong guys, but I THINK watermelon is safe but isn't one of those things you really want to give them much at all of because it's considered a "treat". I haven't really heard much concerning watermelon though so I could possibly be wrong? What do the rest of you think? I wouldn't really advise giving it to him since you're not there really to supervise whether he reacts poorly or fine to treats. I also worry that if the little girl sees you giving the bun watermelon, she may decide she should do it too... and all I can imagine is her giving him too much and his poor tummy not being able to handle it and god forbid, if you're not there to help him!

I would suggest only giving him veggies that have some nutritional value for him -- like herbs or cheap lettuce. Kale should be pretty cheap also, even if you only have a dollar to spend! I can get it for $87/pound for a whole head and I know the prices in Upstate NY aren't that different from Pittsburgh (where I live now).
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User is Offline Roberta
Wanneroo, Western Australia
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10/09/2012 2:43 PM
Hi Beca, If you give him lettuce make sure it is not iceberg or any of the pale leafe lettuces.... Also do you have a garden, check out the BB diet list as you may have plants on hand that are approved and free, like Nasturtiums, Parsley and mint. Always introduce new foods slowly and one at a time as diarrhea is a problem for bunnies and can lead to dehydration, stasis and death. Bok choy is also good for them and usually very cheap to buy, lush grass is free if you have it in your garden just make sure it is washed really well first like all vege's. Rose petals and some other flowers also make a nice treat. Do not feed potato, avocado or pale lettuce its really bad for them.
When you say Winter cold are we talking snow or just really low temps ?
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User is Offline tanlover14
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10/09/2012 2:56 PM
Roberta -- Upstate NY has really low temps -- ranging from 30's to around 0 and lots of snow!
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User is Offline tanlover14
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10/09/2012 2:56 PM
Being from Upstate, I definitely do not think it's safe for the bun to be left outside all winter. It gets really cold and windy.
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User is Offline Roberta
Wanneroo, Western Australia
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10/09/2012 3:09 PM
Thanks TL, Makes it easier to understand.... I have the Gibson desert to the East of me here so Winters whilst wet and chilly are general pretty moderate. (I still wouldn't leave a bun out in it though.)
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User is Offline BeccaLovesMichy
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10/09/2012 3:49 PM

haha yep, lived here my whole life!  i went to college at suny geneseo and darn guys, tanlover's not joking, it gets COLD here... my boyfriend's pal went to college in pittsburgh!

 

in terms of watermelon i was planning on not feeding him the fruit but allowing him something to gnaw on with the rind.  the only issue is...how do you prevent an animal like that from swallowing something??  i don't know rabbits or this particular animal well, but i imagine they might bite you if you forcibly tried to remove something from their mouths.  my dog/cats will let me do that, but even then it's hard.  especially if he chewed it for awhile!  i'd have to keep reaching in his mouth. another problem we had today was that he snuck behind the couch and was digging up the carpet attempting to burrow...  anyone have ideas on a makeshift burrowing apparatus?  like a box o' dirt or something?   he also got startled whilst urinating on his paper and jumped, unfortunately causing the urine to splatter on the wall... the little girl kept wanting to put a harness on him and i was like "nooooooooooooo leave him alone."  the rabbit is easier than the child, for sure !

 

even if winter here wouldn't make him sick, it's pretty effective in rousing the kid into action i'd say.  it's really ultimatum time.  the other day i told her it was not good that he didn't have a bed and she said "why does he need a bed?"  of course i responded "why do YOU need a bed"  jeesh, some people.


User is Offline tanlover14
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10/09/2012 5:12 PM
Really? I went to SUNY Brockport!

I would find some good untreated wood for him to gnaw on -- it'll help him keep his teeth trimmed so he (hopefully) doesn't develop any dental issues. Watermelon rind won't really do anything for him and I think he'd just end up eating it anyways. Could you find an old or new phone book to give him? It does wonders for allowing them to burrow and they LOVE tearing them to shreds. I haven't seen a bun that didn't love it! Also, I've had this same issue with my buns and I solved the problem by simply giving him an old towel to dig the crap out of. All 3 of mine go BONKERS over towels to dig into!

Goodness, I really wish this mother would do something! Ugh -- her child is going to grow up to be just as irresponsible and ignorant with animals as her! Drives me insane!
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User is Offline BeccaLovesMichy
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10/10/2012 5:11 AM

suny brockport, that is awesome!  yay suny!  my bofriend and i met at Geneseo .

 

 

i was just talking with him on the phone last night about how strange it is to be in charge of babysitting this girl.  and i've been instinctually attempting to basically "raise" and mother her, by instilling all the important things i've learned through my life - and take care of her.  but it is a strange juxtaposition because, though she is only a child, she just happens to embody all the foolish ideas and instincts that are everything i most despise about the world.  i know none of you know me well, but if you did you'd know that the issue of pet overpopulation/spay-neuter education/pet abandonment/abuse/neglect as well as environmental/wildlife conservation AND the improvement of the meat animal industry are all things that are the most important to my heart!!!!  animals are my number one cause.  so you can imagine how totally disgusting and frustrating this situation is!  i told her about his binkying to cheer her up and now she thinks that means he loves it there and is totally happy the way he is...i already tried to explain to her about pet overpopulation and why it's bad for people to breed animals.  then yesterday she tells me this (paraphrasing):

 

"reese (her older cat-sweetest cat in the world) is going to die soon, because she's old now.  then i wanna get a girl dog for Bailey" me: "what's bailey need a girl dog for?" her:"to have puppies (sheepish grin)" me:"Bailey is fixed, he can't have puppies." her:"ok so then i'll wait for all my pets to die and then get a boy AND girl dog unfixed so they can have puppies!"  me:   i literally made her pinky promise she would not do that.  my mom said i should (go the PETA route) take her to a shelter so she can see all the sad, caged animals who already exist and need homes.  i actually did explain to her about how many shelter animals are euthanized yearly.  maybe i shouldn't?  but she is so desensitized and oblivious...i think i could maybe make her care!  turn her into an activist!

 

it IS frustrating because the problems run so deep here.  she's already ten and these things have been conditioned into her.  and it sickens me and breaks my heart that this poor kid is just going to become another ignorant, irresponsible adult, when the world is chock full of them.

 

i can't remember if i told you all this bit yet, but the kid didn't even ASK for a pet rabbit.  and the mom got him for free from a friend... who is apparently going to take the rabbit back briefly to get him fixed.  hopefully by a VET   again, thanks for listening everybody.  i'm mostly venting a lot so feel free to just stop responding at this point lol, sorry to talk your ears off but it feels good!


User is Offline tanlover14
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10/10/2012 5:38 AM
Wow... that little girl... it's so frustrating! Whyyyyy do people instill this stuff in their kids? I don't understand. Everyone wants their kids to grow up to be good people but it's like they expect it to happen without any sort of guidance. She sounds so negligent in everything in her life!

This poor bunbun. Sometimes the hard reality is what kids/even adults need to finally understand. I don't think it's a bad idea at all. She sounds like she just THINKS the world works how she wants it to and doesn't think about consequences of anything -- since her mother has obviously never taught her. This is so disturbing. Pets are such a perfect way to teach your children responsibility and caring about animals, ect. And this mother takes both pets and daughter like it's a joke or something.

I'm trying to think of ways to help her understand. I feel like if her rabbit dies, the mother will just get a new one or blow the whole situation off... and then the daughter will never even learn that the animal died because of how little she cared about him! UGH.

I'm sure everyone agrees that they are happy you are spending so much time talking about everything -- I'm KNOW I'm not the only one on this forum worried about this little guy and if you disappeared we would ALL wonder about him. So keep the info coming!
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User is Offline zoologist
Orlando, Fl
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10/10/2012 6:07 AM
You're probably instilling more values in her than you know. I'm sure if you keep with this little girl you will make more of an impact than you think.

I think taking her to the shelter is a great idea. She can see where puppies go when they're no longer wanted. I've been thinking about stuff like this a lot lately and I think I'd be ashamed of myself if I ever got a puppy/kitten instead of a pet in need. I always go to petsmart when they have the shelters there and every one is fawning over the teeny puppies and the playful kittens, but the dogs and cats who REALLY need homes are overlooked. Our rescue here is giving away dogs to good homes, and I've seen the same one at petsmart for the past month probably because he only has 3 legs and he's not "perfect". Another instance is this cat a family is giving away because they're moving. A friend posted a picture on facebook, her friend commented that it was a cute cat. My friend asked if she wanted her since she needs a home and her friend responded "nah, too grown". I almost went off on her.

Lol, there's my vent
-Jessy

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User is Offline Svandis
Norway
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10/10/2012 3:30 PM
I hope you keep us updated!

User is Offline BeccaLovesMichy
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10/11/2012 3:54 AM

i agree, zoo.  my whole childhood, we always bought our dogs from breeders.  the only animal we rescued was my sister's shelter cat.  i still don't really know why - i don't know if my parents weren't aware or if they just didn't think about it.  i have to admit it was fun having a purebred when i didn't know any better... to this day i like studying dog breeds and profiles and origins simply as a hobby.  but i'll always adopt from now on as an adult, and my parents will too.  when i was 19 i convinced them to look into a shelter dog.  result:  my best dog Dani.  she came from a high kill shelter in Kentucky, where she was found wandering the streets at about 6 or 7 months old.  when we got her home she didn't know how to climb stairs, and never had seen her own reflection!  my dad kept her after the divorce and he's obsessed with her.  it is true, as an abandoned animal she has some neuroses, but i can't imagine not having her!

 

my mom bought two purebred ragdoll kittens awhile ago...the first is my cat mischa (i wanted a cat so badly and my mom talked me into a ragdoll, which i regret, though of course i love mischa with all my heart.)  the second was shiloh.  i hate my mom a bit for that because shiloh was completely her idea, and isnce he turned out sooooooooooo different than his breed profile my mom regrets getting him and always talks about giving him away.  it's true, he's not the nicest cat, he is grumpy, doesn't like to be touched much, and he bites esp. when we do his nails.  but i love him anyway!!!!  plus he's a huge clown.  my mom's other two cats are shelter cats that i begged her to get and they ended up being the most sweet and affectionate cats of the bunch, jack and tiny.

 

personally, i prefer adopting grown up cats!  it's easier to tell what their personalities will be like.

 

RE: bun bun (that's actually his name lol) is doing well for the time being.  i brought tons of newspaper from the store and he's been peeing on it like such a good boy (btw y'all, i THINK i spotted testes on him while he was hopping) just need more paper towels to sop it up before it goes all over.  also, he gets it all over him since he is just sitting and peeing and it pools around his butt and feet.  i told B i was proud of her for taking better care of him - i think a little positive reinforcements are needed too.  he was reallu burrowing hard into the couch,, which was fine but then he started chewing on the blanket i used to stuff between couch and wall...it has fleecey material on it so he def shouldn't do that.  how would i stop him though?  B says he freaks if you pick him up (what if he jumped out of arms and broke something?  part of him?)  and i'd be scared to put my hands in front of him that he might bite me.  b used a broom once to guide him out of the couch/wall area and he attacked and bit it!


User is Offline IsabellaRobyn
Scotland
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10/11/2012 6:21 AM
You could try coaxing him with a piece of his food or a little bit of herb that is nice and fragrant like basil. By the sounds of things they won't have any herbs in the house so his normal feed would be the best idea in that case.
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User is Offline tanlover14
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10/11/2012 6:47 AM
Definitely do not pick him and teach the little girl that picking him up is very dangerous -- for him and her. Rabbits can kick hard enough to break their spines and kill them. And dropping a kicking rabbit is very easy if you don't know how to properly pick one up (and hold one) as he finds you like a wild animal. Hahah. Most buns HATE being picked up and from the sounds of his situation, I'm pretty positive this bun does too. It's very important not to pick him up.

I would suggest anything you can herd him with if you don't have any food. If he is young and on unlimited pellets than pellets probably won't work. My buns were like "Really? That's what you're going to try and convince me with?" when I did that to them.. but he might! Anything that you can use to herd him where he won't herd himself is probably your best bet. A cardboard box that's been taken apart on the top and bottom so you can just put it around his butt and nudge him forward.... we had a small tiny fence that we got from petco to do that with (about $10) so anything that can be shaped and made to look like that's structure really! I would suggest teaching the little girl to use THIS safe way of moving him also.... so he doesn't get terrified and become scared of humans. Rabbits just take so much work and one step backward can be permanent if it's instilled in their minds as a very bad experience.
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User is Offline BeccaLovesMichy
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10/11/2012 8:01 AM
those are both great pieces of advice, thanks guys! tan - yeah i wouldn't DREAM of picking him up after reading how easy it is to damage them. jeesh, no thanks! i think she's picked him up in the past (otherwise how would she know he hates it!) but every time i've mentioned it she just says "no, he hates that" so i think they don't ever do it. i just see that in some people's pictures (like isabella) people holding their buns and the bun seems happy...but bun bun seems very uncuddly... he clearly likes to be in the room with us, but like some cats he doesn't seek us out for petting or anything. yesterday we set up a lot more newspaper and he spent the last half hour just sitting on the paper and chewing on/eating it, which i also hope is ok btw.

tan- he actually does not even eat pellets...for the time being and lord knows how long he is/has been receiving a wildlife mixture, intended for small wild animals like squirrels and rabbits... it even says on the bag "YO this is for WILDLIFE NOT PETS!!!" i saw two empty adult rabbit food bags which had a mix of pellets/tim hay/and nuts/seeds. i remember reading something that said to avoid rabbit food that includes nuts/seeds, so...i guess she must have seen the wildlife food, briefly noticed the word "RABBITS" out of context, and said "hey this is cheaper, let's just get this." B was on the phone with her mom and asked if they could visit the grocery store for bun. the mom said she'd pick up some lettuce for him maybe. i said "tell her to make sure it's a dark leafy green, like romaine, spinach, kale!" she repeated after me word for word lol. i think good things are happening. i'm just afraid for bun down the line if their financial sitch gets worse...or if bun lives until the girl is 18-20 and she moves out what will happen to him. i have nightmares of them releasing him into the wild or some such nonsense. once i'm not there to light a fire under her butt and provide support and guidance the way a mother would/should, i also don't know if B will have the will to continue our good work on her own. as some have said it's a huge responsibility for a child to bear alone, plus i sense the issue of laziness. even if you depend on your kid to be responsible for all the rabbit's maintenance and care, you surely can't expect them to be fronting money for vets/meds/food/litter etc. not a ten yr old!

User is Offline tanlover14
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10/11/2012 5:25 PM
I'm glad to hear the little girl is starting to become more interested in her buns needs... that's a really good sign for a child who's never been brought up to be like that! I really hope she keeps it up.

As for a lot of pictures of buns being held -- it's because these humans have established a good relationship with their buns. To do things like this takes much time and patience. It's definitely hard work to get your bun to trust you enough to realize you're not going to hurt them. And usually even these buns still fight when you first pick them up and only get comfortable when you situate them into a position where they feel very comfortable.
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User is Offline BeccaLovesMichy
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10/12/2012 5:04 AM
Good news everyone! well, sort of... i spoke with my sister last night and i mentioned bun again and she was like "that's all you guys talk about! just take him already!" i was like "what? she would let me do that?" sis said "yeah, she said she's going to look for someone to take him since YOU told her kid 'you have to either bring him in for the winter or find someone to take him'" !! HA! i guess i have an enormous amount of clout with these people or she just was looking for an excuse to give him up and i gave it to her. i guess that means she won't budge on bringing him inside then. the trick now is making sure she CAN find someone and that they actually know this time what they're in for. preferably someone who's owned rabbits before...also one who is willing to accept him unfixed. i feel really happy this might happen and also horribly sad... figures, now that i've done so much work to make B so much more INTO her rabbit and caring of him, now she's going to be forced to give him up! it'll be for the best, but still sad... hopefully she will not somehow end up blaming ME. i will also miss bun bun. i find i look forward to seeing him every day and getting to know him better. it's weird i won't see him ever again. i think we've sort of bonded a tiny bit, he likes to convene around my feet lol. i like him a lot.

BTW i posted a picture of him on my profile page, if you all want to see him! i think he's very cute. i was trying to decide if it was right of me to post someone else's rabbit but... given the situation as we all know, i doubt the mother would care at all. enjoy his cuteness!

User is Offline LittlePuffyTail
New Brunswick, Canada
Forum Leader
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10/14/2012 2:54 AM
Awww...he is really cute!

The poor little bun. I really hope she can find someone who will give him the love and care he deserves.
Proud to be a Bunny Hugger and a voice for the voiceless
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User is Offline Skipper's Mama
Florida
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10/14/2012 8:40 AM
He's such a cutie. I'm glad that the woman is willing to give him to a better home finally. Too bad no one from BB could take him in and keep him/foster him.

User is Offline zoologist
Orlando, Fl
268 posts Send Private Message
10/14/2012 8:55 AM
Can your sister take him or convince your dad to let you take him? Part of me thinks you want this bunny, but part of me thinks you just want him to be happy. But if your sister is even telling you to take him because you talk about him so much maybe she could help you out in the daddy department???

I dunno, maybe I'm spoiled but I usually have to bat my eyes and say "daddy, please?" and I get what I want. Actually, that's a lie. My dad made me keep my ferrets outside when I visited for christmas. I need to start working on him now to have him let me bring Finn home, lol...
-Jessy

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User is Offline BeccaLovesMichy
52 posts Send Private Message
10/14/2012 10:20 AM
i think he's cute too! he's starting to get pretty aggressive though with them testicles still intact and all... not with people but in general behavior.

i think my sis was exaggerating how much i have invested in him when she said "why don't you just take him already!" i actually told my dad she said that and he got that really pissed off expression and said "jeez thanks a lot, Ab." the truth is zoo, i care about every animal i've ever met or seen. i love them all and i get invested in each and every one. that doesn't mean i'm able personally or financially to adopt and care for them all, unfortunately. i do kind of wish i could in the sense of being able to oversee his care and KNOW things were happening properly. but on the other hand, i'm trying to save up money right now - i'm looking into grad school for the very near future. my current life situation is completely in a state of flux and i am not in a stable position to really consider adopting any pet. as i said, it might actually strain my relationship with my dad to the breaking point of him kicking me out. my sister probably would take him if her apartment allowed animals, which it doesn't. but i will continue to monitor his care while i am able and will definitely be in communicaiton with her about who she might get to take him. i know of two very nice, sweet little girls that B is friends with - they are nuts for animals. the only issue is they kind of already have a cat and two hamsters, but you never know. i think that would be a great middle ground! as i said, my dad kind of already IS spoiling me a lot- he doesn't make me pay rent, even though i am very much an adult, he pays for all the groceries, he offers to buy me things like hiking boots so i can exercise better... the last thing i want is to take advantage of his kindness and leniency and to press his patience.

User is Offline Skipper's Mama
Florida
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10/14/2012 10:36 AM
I understand your position Becca. It's great that you respect your father and don't want to strain your relationship.

User is Offline BeccaLovesMichy
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10/14/2012 2:35 PM
oh. my goodness. mama, your rabbit is so CUTE and chubby looking lol. he's got a much fuller coat than bun! probably because bun is still in puberty. thank you, i hope everyone understands that i would take bun if i could. i did not bring him into the world or into my home and though i want to help, it is not my burden to carry alone. i can't possibly feel completely responsible for every idiot's neglected or abandoned animals, i'd go insane! one thing i've gained from all this is that i now know A LOT about rabbits and their care/personalities. i didn't even know if they were intelligent creatures or not, and now i am a fan of the rabbit! (my chinese zodiac sign is also, coincidentally, the rabbit ) i also now dream exclusively about rabbits.

User is Offline LBJ10
Forum Leader
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10/14/2012 4:26 PM
About the puppies thing. I have kids tell me every day how their dog had puppies and their cat had kittens and blah blah blah. I wouldn't blame this girl for being excited about the idea of having puppies. Heck, I probably would have been excited for that when I was a kid too. Thankfully my parents weren't like that. All of our dogs/cats were fixed. This isn't to say that I am not frustrated when I hear this. What infuriates me though is when they talk about someone in their family abusing a pet or harming a wild animal. That makes me really sad because a lot of the time these kids have no idea that it is a bad thing to have happened. Kids just don't understand. They can't really until they reach a certain age. Their mind has to develop more for them to fully be able to sympathize/empathize with another person or creature.

User is Offline Skipper's Mama
Florida
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10/14/2012 5:20 PM
Thanks Becca. =] Skipper says thanks for the compliments. She's actually not chubby. Since she's (as of right now, it will be fixed on the 20th of Nov.) an unspayed bun she has this massive fuzzy dewlap that is just all hair. She's mainly just all hair. xD

User is Offline Beka27
Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
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10/15/2012 2:25 AM
Posted By LBJ10 on 10/14/2012 07:26 PM
About the puppies thing. I have kids tell me every day how their dog had puppies and their cat had kittens and blah blah blah. I wouldn't blame this girl for being excited about the idea of having puppies. Heck, I probably would have been excited for that when I was a kid too. Thankfully my parents weren't like that. All of our dogs/cats were fixed. This isn't to say that I am not frustrated when I hear this. What infuriates me though is when they talk about someone in their family abusing a pet or harming a wild animal. That makes me really sad because a lot of the time these kids have no idea that it is a bad thing to have happened. Kids just don't understand. They can't really until they reach a certain age. Their mind has to develop more for them to fully be able to sympathize/empathize with another person or creature.

My grandparents bred their Schnauzer (a sickly little dog) once when I was young, maybe ten or eleven years old.  To tell you the absolute honest truth... I loved every one of those puppies.  WHO doesn't love puppies?!  I spent summer days at my grandparents' house while my parents worked, and those puppies were my best friends for two months.  I cried horribly when it came time for them to leave for new homes.  So I do think some of that is just her age.  All she can think of is how cute puppies and kittens are, not the horrible fate of unwanted pets in this country.  She's a kid still, after all.

Meadow..... Photobucket ...... Max, my angel bunny

User is Offline BeccaLovesMichy
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10/15/2012 4:33 AM
you're welcome skipper!  yeah...as soon as i read "chubby" in my comment i was praying you wouldn't take offense at that lol .  she's only chubby "looking" of course (in the very best, most adorable way!) but in reality she's just a fluffy gal !  i don't doubt you take awesome care of her!  my cat mischa looks like a bigger gal but she's all hair too

User is Offline BeccaLovesMichy
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10/15/2012 4:41 AM
in terms of the puppies thing, you guys are right. it's hard to remember she is "just a kid" when the cause is so dear to your heart. also, this is my first ever babysitting job and i am the youngest person in my entire extended and nuclear family, so i have little experience with children, especially of varying ages. it's honestly impossible for me to remember at this point where i was at age ten (in terms of social development and language skills etc.) i wonder when it comes time to plant that seed of knowledge that animals are not there (just or primarily) for your personal enjoyment/amusement. i would definitely be afraid for the kids you talked about, that those ideas that hurting animals are ok will stay with them through adulthood. i do remember though that as a child, if an animal wanted to be left alone i'd pet it any way because i really wanted to. now i have the maturity enough to say i should ultimately do what the animal WANTS and just leave it be. it's crazy how you don't even notice you're maturing until one day you are babysitting a ten year old and you're like "wow, i've come a long way!!" ; )

User is Offline LittlePuffyTail
New Brunswick, Canada
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10/16/2012 1:11 AM
i do remember though that as a child, if an animal wanted to be left alone i'd pet it any way because i really wanted to. now i have the maturity enough to say i should ultimately do what the animal WANTS and just leave it be.


I can relate to that! I have a small scar under my eye where my childhood Shih-Tzu bit me because I was bugging her while she was sleeping. Had to go the hospital for a tetanus shot! I also used to dress up my cat on a regular basis. I just loved animals so much my whole life but just didn`t have a lot of common sense as most kids don`t. I did, however, always provide proper care for my animals. I had hamsters as a kid and changed their cages twice a week, fed them every day, etc., brushed the cat, walked the dog. I even baby sat my neighbors dog on a regular basis while I was 9 or 10. I never got bored of them, like so many kids do.
Proud to be a Bunny Hugger and a voice for the voiceless
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User is Offline BeccaLovesMichy
52 posts Send Private Message
10/24/2012 4:39 AM
hey guys. at this point, i have no idea what will happen to bun during the winter months. i haven't had a good opportunity to actually sit the mom down and talk to her (she's always just getting home from work and visibly exhausted). from what my sister has told me, mom has no intention of bringing bun in for the winter and would prefer to give him away. also, my sis said from talking to her it appears she has "no intentions" of getting him neutered. when i spoke to B about it, she said they were waiting on the guy who bred the bunny, who apparently offered to neuter him (yikes?) or GET him neutered for them. i'm not clear on that part. she also told me that they are bringing him inside, they just need to "train him more not to do bad stuff."

here are his bad behaviors. i have tried every configuration of make-shift barriers i can think of, but he ALWAYS gets behind the couch, where he digs the carpet up, eats pieces of it (i'm pretty sure). we stuffed a blanket down in so he can't reach that part of the carpet and he chews and digs aggressively at the blanket!! i'm afraid he's going to eat stuff he shouldn't and have to have surgery or something. he even took a kamikaze dive straight down off the back of the couch to get in there. i swear, he's like a toddler, and the more i try to get him NOT to go in there the more badly he wants to. it's like it's the only thing he can think about. he's in that closet ALL day and he finally gets hours inside and that all he wants to do!!!!! if i stand in front of the entrance he rather aggressively tries to chew on my sneaks. he's extraordinarily strong-willed and feisty. am i correct in believing a lot of that will stop as soon as he is neutered? he goes potty mostly on the newspaper (though i don' t know how "trained" he is since we cover an entire...five foot, six foot area with it to be safe) but sometimes he still does a few poops off of it and i think a teensy bit of urine comes out by accident. i have offered him cardboard, and he seems to lose interest and proceed to try to chew all the wrong things. would he just chew a chew toy if i got one? i'm afraid he will be disinterested! is there a good kind to recommend?

also, if B is right, and they bring him in for winter, they still need a lot of supplies they don't have. she says she plans to use a different puppy cage for bun. i told her they need special cages (where the poo and pee can fall through the bottom) is that true? or would he be ok in a puppy cage? is there a good, reasonably priced one you all might recommend? i might be able to do some convincing. i feel i've made myself a catch 22, since all the work i've done to educate B and make things better for her rabbit HAVE made her more attached to him - but at the same time they still are nowhere near where they need to be in terms of his care or being with it mentally about what needs to take place. so now B is less likely to be willing to give him away, i have made that more painful for her, and despite my best efforts, i think he'd be better off with a more educated(educatable) family that has more to give.

i have surprisingly read on answer sites that people do in fact keep their rabs outdoors in freezing temperatures and say they end up ok. however most are still providing attentive and accurate care, heated water and hutches...

User is Offline Svandis
Norway
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10/24/2012 7:49 AM
"her they need special cages (where the poo and pee can fall through the bottom) is that true? or would he be ok in a puppy cage?"
That depends on what you mean by the poo falling through the bottom. Like a wire bottom cage? that is not reccomended as it can hurt little rabbit feet and they can get sore hocks.
A puppy cage could be fine if he gets out time (and you can make a ledge in there so he has an extra little "floor" to jump up on), or if he could possibly have a pen attatched to the cage so he could have more space

User is Offline Radhika
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10/24/2012 8:22 AM

This thread is equally sad and heart-warming.

With regard to the "bad" behaviours, they're just normal bunny behaviours. Bunnies like to dig because they are hardwired to dig tunnels, so if you don't want him to dig the carpet he needs other outlets. You can pick up squares of carpet really cheap, I got 4 for £1 at the local pound shop. Or if you go into a carpet store and ask for small off-cuts they will probably oblige. Then you can put that carpet behind the sofa and bunny can dig to his heart's content - but he shouldn't swallow it. If he is swallowing the fibres or if you can't get any carpet, you can make a digging box. Get a cardboard box (shops will give you one for free, surely?) and fill it with shredded newspaper. Bunny can burrow into it and have a great time. He makes a beeline for the couch because he's started a project (he's digging out a tunnel) and he wants to finish it. Honestly the simplest solution would be to block the area by pushing the couch against the wall, so he figures there's been a cave-in or something and he will abandon that burrow for another one (the cardboard box). Actually I don't think I should be calling bunny a he, I think females are more interested in burrowing than the males so bunny is probably a she.

It's important to know that his/her urge to burrow is not going to go away, you can't teach a rabbit that it's bad to dig tunnels - it's like trying to teach a human that it's bad to run. It's in their nature, and they need a way to express it. 

My Harry was not at all interested in cardboard or any of the chewing toys I bought him, then I gave him a twig of apple wood and he went to town on it. Not all woods are safe for bunnies, but apple, pear, willow and a few others are fine. If you see an apple tree just break some twigs off and see if the rabbit is interested.

As for pottying, even when neutered they leave some stools outside of the litterbox. Luckily they don't smell and are dry, so it just means going after them with a tissue and putting them in the litterbox. If he pees outside, dab it up with some paper towel and put the paper in the litterbox so he knows where to go. If he was neutered he would probably stop peeing outside the litterbox entirely, but from what I've read they always poo outside a little.


User is Offline BeccaLovesMichy
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10/24/2012 10:55 AM

Svandis:  here is a picture of what i "thought" bunnies needed.  i thought it was so the bunny's waste wouldn't accumulate in its living space, but the fact that it might hurt his feet makes sense...i wonder if you're supposed to put lots of hay down?  or else, why are they selling bunny cages like this!

 

http://www.petco.com/product/113420...p:// 

 

 

re: puppy cage.  i have no idea how much out time they give him when i'm not there.  i think when he is "bad" they probably just lose patience and put him back outside.   what are the minimum dimensions for a cage for it to be humane?  

 

Thank you for the help!


User is Offline BeccaLovesMichy
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10/24/2012 11:08 AM

Radhika, thank you for your reply, very helpful!!!

 

I am fairly certain he is consuming the carpet fibers, so I'm not sure why or how he hasn't gotten sick from that...  i try to distract him with carrots, but he loses interest after a bit and goes back to t he couch!!!  i do know that digging and chewing is their nature, and i have tried to explain that to them.  what i meant was that he might be less "aggressive" about it... when i try to get him to back out by putting a broom in there he very aggressively attacks and bites it (maybe tis normal?) if you try at all to stop him he gets very head-butty and persistent.  

 

i thought of getting a box and filling it with dirt (i saw it on a bunny video) but that could potentially get messy... the box of newspaper is a good idea i will try, but his current "litterbox" is also a cardboard box filled with sheets of newspaper, so i don't know if he'd recognize it as a burrowing apparatus?  the couch unfortunately is one of those gigantic L shaped things that is a few inches on one side from the sliding glass door that opens to bun bun's porch.  i thought of moving it, but i'm not sure honestly if i could, but i'll try!

 

bunny poop is awesome.  you're right, it doesn't smell, it doesn't make a mess, and honestly i just pick up stray poops with my hands (then wash of course) while the kid gets completely grossed out ha!

 

also!  it has actually been confirmed for me that Bun Bun is indeed a boy, which the mom knew this entire time lol.  i don't know how to explain his extra burrowing interest in that case.  he does probably get pretty pent up being out there by himself all day so.

 

Thanks again!


User is Offline Svandis
Norway
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10/24/2012 12:27 PM
I would really not reccomend a cage like that, for the reasons i stated earlier. They need solid ground to stand on. As for the poops and cleanliness, if he can be potty trained well, it shouldnt be a problem

as for reccomended space for rabbits, the minimum should be so that he can hop atleast three hops in there with no trouble, but the bigger the better

User is Offline Radhika
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10/24/2012 1:09 PM
The only thing Harry burrows in is a wicker laundry basket, I turned it on its side and stuffed it with hay and he hops inside to eat. He doesn't actually burrow, just digs in to find the best bits of hay but he isn't a burrower. I think this bunny might really like it, and as long as it's untreated it's safe for him to eat some of the wicker too. I didn't spend anything because I had the basket when I got him, but you could probably pick something like that up at a dollar store.

User is Offline NikitaSue20
Gettysburg, Pennsylvania
132 posts Send Private Message
10/24/2012 5:05 PM
Don't worry. My thump is a boy and he borrows way more than oreo does lol. Just the personality difference. And I can relate to you because Thumper and Oreo both came from a extremely similar situation as the one you are describing. And it was purely things falling into place right that they ended up with me so don't lose hope.

Also someone said about iceberg lettuce being bad. WHAT?! I've been giving oreo and thumper that. I had no clue it was bad. I've read the what they can have list and have it written down on a paper on my desk. There was so many kinds of lettuce on there i guess i assumed they were all good =/. I guess I'll have to get some different kinds of lettuce on friday and just fill the hole with spinach even tho they hate it lol. They will still eat it just they save it for very last and then protest it for an hour and then eat it.

And also I wanted to say that just from how much the girl has perked up about her rabbit I think there is alot hope for her. It sounds like she is ready to learn and she sounds smart also. My mother is very smart about animals and has rescued very many and is a huge animal lover and she still feeling that rabbits go in cages and she thinks they are unemotional animals. Patience Patience Patience. Just try to subtley say rabbit facts in conversation and I'm sure she will retain some of it. Best of luck =D I think your doing great and things will only get better

User is Offline Binky91
England
97 posts Send Private Message
10/25/2012 1:06 AM
Hi BeccaLovesMichy! I've been following this thread and think your doing such a good job and I think we're all grateful for you helping the furry little fella out .

As for cages, I use a dog cage for my Wilbur and he loves it. My boyfriend built a small second level (he basically just built a little table and we slotted it into the corner) which worked really well as it meant he got more exercise whilst in the cage because he could jump up and down the second level until his heart was content! I got mine off of ebay for around £28, so thats, what, $40ish? That is for a 36" cage. But if you look around you might get one for cheaper. Maybe join a website for people who have things like cages lying around that they just want to get rid of? I know here in the UK we have one called freecycle.

 

 
(Cage with no upstairs)

 

(Cage with upstairs)

Good luck You're doing a great job!

 

 

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User is Offline Jenna, Chubs & Comet
Portland, OR
618 posts Send Private Message
10/26/2012 8:47 PM
Wow, just read all of that. How wonderful of you to try and help this bunny. It must be so frustrating not to be able to do as much as you'd like to do for him. I think you are doing a wonderful job doing what you can! Hang in there...!
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User is Offline BeccaLovesMichy
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10/30/2012 1:10 PM
Thank you so much!  That really means a lot!

User is Offline BeccaLovesMichy
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10/30/2012 1:27 PM

Hi Binky!!  Thank you so much for your kind words, as always that kind of thing means an awful lot.  And thanks for the pictures, that's so thoughtful!!  Wilbur looks super happy in there, and he also looks A LOT like BB, only he doesn't have the bit of white trim yours has on his nose and chest, he's purely black.    I think BB's original cage was about a 1/2 foot- 1 foot smaller than yours, so I'll have to get myself a look at this newly proposed cage she speaks of.  In general, things are really looking up for BB!  I just found out that they have in fact decided to keep him in their apt for the winter!  I need to bring it home that it's not really just for winter but for always, but at least he won't be out in our frigid winter weather, thank goodness.  That would have kept me up at night.

 

For now BB is being housed in their bathroom - which is really a pretty nice spot for him.  HE's got a big cardboard box in there with a hole for a door and a big soft blanket stuffed inside.  He also has his cardboard litter box which he likes to use, and his food and water.  We did in fact move the couch against the wall, though he still occasionally goes into the OTHER side lol but is much easier to get him out of that side.  when we shoo him out with a broom he gets mad and thumps really hard, poor guy.  we are gentle.  I took Bella to the petco today and I think I'll spring for a chew toy... they sell one that supposedly tastes like carrots that I think he'd go for more than a piece of wood.  It's about 4 inches long and 6 bucks.  Regular, non-enhanced pellets are only 17 dollars for a 20 pound bag!!!  I think that's a great deal, considering he needs about 1/2 cup a day, which calculates to 80 servings per bag.  that'd last almost 3 months!  i think i could def convince Bella's mom to get that.  The hay is my last pursuit.  like y'all said, the pet store is a rip off, 8$ for a smallish package of timothy hay, so i must find a farm nearby that'll sell it in smallish bulk size.  Lastly I think I will buy a cheap plastic dish pan to replace his cardboard box and just continue putting newspaper in there.  The recycled paper litter is very expensive and newspaper is free.  bun bun ate part of my dictionary the other day which i thought was pretty funny, since Bella hates her spelling HW.

 

Do you all think BB could be ok without any hay?  That's seems like it'll be the biggest challenge, not just for me but for Bella and her mom to upkeep.  I know every site says it's the most important aspect, but I have to admit, BB looks and acts super healthy and active and he was only living on wildlife seeds until now and eating god knows how much other inorganic matter such as carpet and plastic.  As always, extra advice on this very long thread is super appreciated!!  Thank you all for being so helpful, attentive, and caring for myself and BB.  I know he would thank you all if he could!!!!!!!!! 

 

PS. BB is binkying and running all over now.  I htink he is pretty happy.  only issue is Bella tries to use his binkies as an excuse/sign that he's fine and doesn't need all the dietary changes i've recommended...hard to impress these things upon a child sometimes.  He even has been so much more social/affectionate.  He hops up on the couch right next to me - like a cat!!!!!  he sits there a ibt and lets me pet him, but he's very energetic so he never stays long


User is Offline tanlover14
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10/30/2012 1:35 PM
If you can by any way get her to buy a big bag of hay since the smaller bags are much more expensive -- Oxbow sells 50 lb. bags (which you can keep in a plastic storage container) for only around $50! That's only a buck a pound AND I'm sure with only one bun it would last way longer. I'm not sure if you can get her to spend that kind of money but it's worth the try or finding a farm to buy it from.

Hay is absolutely necessary though for buns. It aids in digestion and helps keep their teeth trimmed down. It's def a must.
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User is Offline BeccaLovesMichy
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10/30/2012 2:04 PM

Thanks for the quick reply, tanlover!  I had to come back to post again because I was just investigating the Tractor Supply Company, which is RIGHT down the street from my dad's apt.  They sell huge bags of rabbit pellets for so much less than petco, and I though theirs was a good deal!  Here is the link:

 

http://www.tractorsupply.com/manna-...b--2424103

 

it's called " Manna Pro Select Series" and it says you get a 25 pound bag for TEN DOLLARS!!!  that HAS to be a better deal than whatever they're giving him now.  It also says it's a complete diet and has the required protein and fiber content!   I am so excited I can't take it.  This is for adult pet rabbits, right?  Is this brand alright?  It has to be better than what he's eating now.

 

 

EDIT:  this food was under the "livestock" category.  I can't find the same food under the pet category.  I did find one called "LM Animal Farms Classic Pet RAbbit Food.."  Even still, it's 10lbs for 5$.  Even if you bought 3 that's 30lbs for 15$ - 10lbs more than the petco offer for 2 dollars less.  That would last about 4 months and be 45$ a year.  That's nothing!


EDIT AGAIN:  Found a 50 lb bale of alfalfa horse hay for $18.99, would that be suitable?  Again, that's a really good deal, isn't it???

http://www.tractorsupply.com/standl...9048 


User is Offline Roberta
Wanneroo, Western Australia
3351 posts Send Private Message
10/30/2012 2:31 PM
Hi Becca,
Any hay is better than no hay and if it's a choice between the bale or nothing I say "go the bale". I had to use bale hay last Xmas and all the pet stores were out and due to our isolation over here you could not even buy the expensive ones as most deliveries were delayed because of the holidays. Perverse little monsters loved it. Once I could get their normal hay again I just used the bale for litter and bedding but they would bound round the play area and leap into the baled hay when it was placed down. They loved the stuff. Just be warned, it expands when you cut the wire. Place it down on an old sheet and have lots of bags handy to portion it out for storage.
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User is Offline Roberta
Wanneroo, Western Australia
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10/30/2012 2:32 PM
And what ever you do DON'T unbale it in your car boot thinking it will be easier to move.... I am still trying to get it out
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User is Offline tanlover14
3419 posts Send Private Message
10/31/2012 6:47 AM
Just checked out the feed store -- I saw they had what my buns used to be on -- Purina Complete. Here's the link for it --

http://www.tractorsupply.com/purina...b--2801062

I didn't see the prices for the other one you had posted but I know the Purina Complete is really good for buns and has all the appropriate levels necessary for them! If it's the same price -- I'd get that one. I can't find my book right at the moment that has all the necessary percentages for food in it so I couldn't compare the other one. If this one is out of your price range, lemme know and I'll put more time into finding that book tonight and comparing!

I have to agree with Roberta, take any hay you can get for right now!
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User is Offline BeccaLovesMichy
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10/31/2012 8:25 AM
actually that would indeed be even cheaper than the other kind...only issue is that it's a fifty pound bag lol.  if he for some reason didn't want to eat/didn't like it, it might be kind of difficult to return/unmanageable.  i'm also kind of worried about the 50lb bale... there's no way i could lift that myself, i'd have to ask my dad to help me.  if i can find that they sell even a half-sized bag that is still a good deal, i'd go for it!!  thanks for the advice, and the offer to help me research different kinds of foods, that's really sweet of you!

User is Offline NikitaSue20
Gettysburg, Pennsylvania
132 posts Send Private Message
10/31/2012 3:18 PM
You would be surprised. I'm 115 pounds 5'7''. (so i'm tiny) and I lifted both my 50lb bale and bag by myself. It's not as heavy as it sounds

User is Offline tanlover14
3419 posts Send Private Message
11/01/2012 6:11 AM
Usually you can switch their pellets by mixing the two mixes together (should do anyways for their sensitive tummies). Until you switch him over to the new stuff full time you can see how he takes to the new stuff. I really don't think he'll notice to much of a difference but I understand your concern. My buns have never been difficult to switch to other pellets with the mixing in method. And now that they get limited pellets since they reached 6 months, BOY they are not picky about pellets AT ALL. LOL. It's almost like a treat for them now. So I really don't think you'll encounter a problem.

As for the bale, NikitaSue is right.. You'd be surprised. I lifted hay bales all my life and it's not as difficult as it looks! If you need help though you can find something to put it in and just drag it! That's my technique for everything I can't lift. Dragging a 50 lb. anything really isn't difficult at all. And I weigh the same amount as NikitaSue (although I'm 5'4" -- NikitaSue... HOLY HECk, you're tiny! AND tall!) I don't think you'll have as much of a problem as you'd think!
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User is Offline BeccaLovesMichy
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11/01/2012 6:22 AM
haha thanks guys. trust me, i'll need the help. i have difficulty lifting something of half that weight and i usually hold it like a baby. i'm not very strong in my arms and i have wrist issues, which is probably why it's not so bad for you guys (despite being small, you must be STRONG!) right now he's on something not even related to a pellet formula. it's like a nuts and seeds mix for wild backyard life (squirrels, WILD rabbits!) so i'm a bit nervous about how his system will adjust. as i've stated previously, he must be one heck of a hardy rabbit because he's been through a lot, eaten all the wrong stuff, and he is a binkying madman. funny yet tragic anecdote: yesterday as i was crouching over his newspaper to scoop up the urine paper before it had time to soak through, Bun Bun shook his booty as hard as he could and pee went directly into my face!!! i was shocked but not too bothered lol i don't know if that means i'm tough or just gross. maybe both? i honestly feel that he's doing it in the same way a wet dog does - just to get that pee off of him. i don't sense that it's a marking thing? but it could be. he gets a lot of pee on his person though, it's probably uncomfortable for him.

btw i am 5'8 3/4" and 136 pounds and i can't lift much... but i do have really strong legs!!!! maybe i can carry it that way

User is Offline tanlover14
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11/01/2012 7:32 AM
HA! Maybe he wasn't done!? My bratty boy bun used to actually flick his pee at us with his back feet if he was spraying and getting in trouble while we tried herding him to the litter box.
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User is Offline BeccaLovesMichy
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11/01/2012 11:14 AM
i took bella to petco today and she spent her own money on a wooden chew for BB that was 2.99.... unfortunately, he rubbed his face on it and then didn't seem interested in chewing it! it's one of those hanging ones with different colored blocks of wood.

User is Offline tanlover14
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11/01/2012 5:23 PM
Ohhh! The Kabobs! -- my buns didn't seem interested in it at all but when we built them their new condo it was located closer to the floor (past their nose lengths) and now they are ALWAYS yanking on it. It may just be located to high for him to really be interested in. Is it one of the ones that has a bell on the end? We yanked on it a few times with him out of the cage and they seemed to LOVE the noise it makes when they yank on it. So maybe he just needs some encouragement with it too!
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User is Offline NikitaSue20
Gettysburg, Pennsylvania
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11/01/2012 8:34 PM
Lol thanks =D I'm trying to gain some weight. And i haven't spent too much money on toys for the buns because they lose their minds over plain old card board. I figured why spend where you can save lol.

User is Offline Roberta
Wanneroo, Western Australia
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11/01/2012 8:51 PM
Nermals got the hoop with the shapes around it hanging in her cage. She loves to leap though it, nearly gives me a heart attack when she does. Nermie did have a kabob one but that has since been chewed down to ropey remnants. The cheap bright coloured plastic stacking cups are the general favourite. A couple of dollars in the baby aisle at the supermarket. Much pleasure is had bashing them against the floor and hurling them around the paly area. Its even better when I am dumb enough to keep restacking them.
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User is Offline RexEnabler
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11/02/2012 3:20 AM
My little guy loves his stacking-cups too...especially if I hide a bit of a treat between the cups. Otherwise, he is a huge fan of cardboard tubes from paper-towels or toilet-rolls or even balls made of loops of carboard from toilet rolls with treats inside. Maybe it would be a fun project with the kid to make toys for the BB out of cardboard tubes and newspaper?

User is Offline BeccaLovesMichy
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11/02/2012 5:01 AM
you know, i'm finally catching on to the fact that he loves going after my paperback webster's dictionary, which i bring over for spelling HW help, soooo..... the idea i read somewhere of giving him an old paperback (library sells them for a dollar. kind of sad end for a book, but lol) or a phonebook!!! i bet he'd like that! he just gets bored so fast, he's always going from one thing to the next. he's so freaking funny when he runs back and forth like a madman and then all of a sudden he'll just lay down completely flat with his back legs stretched out! he looks JUST like a tiny dog. but he's only down a few minutes! i love reading your posts in my email, you guys are so funny!

Tan: i think it's the one that's a bit smaller than the kebab? We only had 5$ to spend and the kebab one was a bit grander and larger, and that one did have a bell: BB's does not... the metal hanging apparatus does jingle though if you shake it. Since he doesn't have a cage to hang it on, we just put it in front of him on the floor. looked like he nipped at it then went off to do something else. the lady at petco said they design them to attract the rabbits. maybe he needs time to let it grow on him? maybe he just has a harder time understanding what toys are for since he never had them until now. he mostly seems to like entertaining himself by jumping all around the couch and charging back and forth down the hall while binkying. he also like to dart really fast around his newspaper area. it's like he's playing his own little private game! whenever Bella says she wished BB would let her hold him or hug him, i have to remind her that she had him shut outside and isolated for so long, so he has to get used to it.

Rex: yes! that's a great idea! she did get very excited about carving out pieces from a large cardboard box to make him a little hutch/hideout.

Thanks for the comments, all!

User is Offline Skipper's Mama
Florida
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11/02/2012 9:09 AM
Phonebooks are great! Buns have a lot of fun tearing them apart. My little girl loves to go after a dictionary too. =p I would just be careful giving BB the dictionary because the ink used to print the words may be toxic.

User is Offline BeccaLovesMichy
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11/02/2012 9:28 AM
hi again, everyone, bad news.... today i was over letting BB run around and play. he was being a really good boy, letting me brush him and pet him. he was running around a lot then he'd lay down and be really mellow. i was sitting on the couch and he was hopping around on there and all of a sudden he backed his butt up, stuck it out and shot a huge stream of urine down INTO their couch cushions... i was devastated! i've been watching him for a whole month play inside and on that couch and he's NEVER done anything like it before. he's started leaving little poops on there too. i guess we can all safely assume he's marking, right? i mean, he's smart and knows better. he uses his box just fine in his enclosure, and until now had pretty much peed perfectly on the newspaper for me. ugh, i thought we were doing so well... it was soaked, even dripped down into the crevice between couch sections, so it probably soaked into the carpet, which i couldn't get to. i texted the mom letting her know. i told her i cleaned it and that he was prob marking and would stop if they fixed him. i also took teh opportunity to mention "if you ever want/need to get rid of him let me know, i may know someone who'd take him." she wrote back "take the bunny." looks like i'll need to hope my source works out for finding him a new home i had asked a HS friend who has owned rabbits and she said one of her housemates might be interestesd but needed to check with her parents. i hope thisi works out. he needs to get out of there. if the mom isn't ever going to embrace him he doesn't stand a chance of getting all he needs, which she mostly is in control of. i just feel so bad! he seems so happy and comfortable being there and he likes all the other animals... it's his home

User is Offline Roberta
Wanneroo, Western Australia
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11/02/2012 2:04 PM
Once they start to mark you know they have become comfortable in their environment and reached that age where is time to be neutered. Keeping my fingers crossed your friends friend can take him and give him a loving home. Whilst he may be comfortable there now if he keeps spraying it won't be long before the Mum decides enough is enough and gives him to anybody who will take him or worse drop him off at a shelter. Far better to find him a good home now he will settle in again.
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User is Offline BeccaLovesMichy
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11/02/2012 2:21 PM
thanks roberta, you're right he'll be better off.  apparently she already has decided enough is enough!  in fact, i think she wanted me to take him all along, even before any peeing happened.  what you wrote weren't even some of my "worst case scenarios."  i could imagine them just leaving him somewhere, maybe outside or something.  i'm glad i made it clear that i'd help them so they don't do anything drastic like that.

User is Offline Roberta
Wanneroo, Western Australia
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11/02/2012 2:44 PM
You're doing a great job Becca, hang in there. I would get him out as fast as possible even if its to a temporary interim home. Would your Dad let you take him just for a few days or would it cause too much grief between you?
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User is Offline BeccaLovesMichy
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11/09/2012 3:32 AM
Smallish update: My friend's rommate is making a final decision with her mom this weekend, so I should know by Monday. Parents can be tough to convince, as I expertly know, so I am a little worried.

I also think that because they are now in the mindset of getting rid of him, they have gotten really lax about feeding him... ugh. I really can't get ahead with this situation. They ran out of his inappropriate "wildlife" food, and now he's just getting however much carrots/lettuce/celery they're giving him. I didn't know they were giving him anything so brought over several cups of red lettuce from my dad's fridge and a bunch of carrots. I mentioned buying pellets to Bella and she acted like "why would we do that, he HAS food, it's in the fridge." I even texted mom and said I was going to buy him a bag myself and if I could stop over to drop it off. Same apathetic, moronic answer "I can grab him something. He's fine. We're giving him veggies." It makes me wanna pull my hair out. Just wanted to double check with you all that he will survive the weekend on this minimal fare? Is that enough calories for him? I don't know why she's punishing BB further by refusing to let me spend my OWN money and take up my OWN time getting him stuff? Makes no sense. Also if I got him real pellets, would his digestive system be ok, since he's been used to the crappy seed stuff that isn't even for rabbits? When I was bent over his floor in the bathroom cleaning up a potty, he was pawing at me. I'm pretty sure he wanted food, he ate all my lettuce (Which was about two cups) all at once. Then he kept running back to his food bowl and he even started biting my hoodie sleeve while sitting on my lap, which really scared me! I'm chalking it up to the fact he wanted someone to give him food.

User is Offline tanlover14
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11/09/2012 7:28 AM
This poor bun -- it's such a heart breaking story. Getting greens like that MAY be sufficient but only if he also has an unlimited supply of hay, which I don't think he has. Quite frankly, without hay they are pretty much starving the little guy.

I really hope the friend can take him. This bun desperately needs to be cared for properly before it's too late.
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User is Offline BeccaLovesMichy
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11/09/2012 7:57 AM
oh my gosh, that's bad news... so even if i could get him a good kind of pellets, he'd still be essentially starving without hay? i might be able to swing one of the tiny packages they sell at petco, i think it's about 7$ for a tiny square - it's just such a huge ripoff, but it doesn't make sense to get him a 50lb bale at this point. it would be much more manageable in many ways... is it ok to just give it to him, or does it need to be introduced slowly? In case my one lead doesn't work out, does anyone have any ideas as to where I might look for a new home for him? my dad suggested fliers around town, but i don't want to give him away to anyone...especially since he would be free of charge and all, no way to prove they're committed or not psychotic.

User is Offline BeccaLovesMichy
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11/09/2012 9:20 AM
ok so, i figure if i go to tractor supply co. i can get a ten pound bag of feed for 5 dollars, and they sell a 3 pound bag of hay for 6.99... i know if he needs 1/2 cup a day of pellets, a ten pound bag is gonna last over a month. how long do you all suppose 3 lbs of hay will last? it's a better deal than the petco hay. does he really need pellets and hay both at this point in time, or is the hay the essential thing and pellets he could do without? i don't mind buying both if he needs it, especially if it'll last a month or so and that should be enough time to get him out of there. i called a low cost neuter/spay program, but i'm waiting to hear back if they'll make an exception for a rabbit. normally cats n dogs. i also called 4H camp to see if they could somehow help as my dad recommended it.

User is Offline Roberta
Wanneroo, Western Australia
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11/09/2012 12:05 PM
OK, This is an outside chance but one more place to go. You can put buns up for adoption on Bunspace. www.bunspace.com enter a profile and put the word adoption in the title or create a rescue profile and list him for adoption. It's worth a shot. They also list shelters in all areas and may have some that aren't listed on BB. What state are you in ?
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User is Offline BeccaLovesMichy
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11/09/2012 12:42 PM
thanks, roberta.  i live in new york state.

User is Offline Roberta
Wanneroo, Western Australia
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11/09/2012 12:59 PM
Hi Becca, I know New Jersey is near New York so you might want to contact Little Miracles for advice or they may have a foster near you http://www.facebook.com/LittleMirac...bbitRescue
It must be more than a coincidence that I have been in contact with them recently. I saw a petition against them by some people but the petition lacked substance so I decided to dig deeper rather than sign it mindlessly like some people have. Turns out the claims in the petition are pretty spurious (petty and without grounds) and the shelter is actually excellent and currently in the process of upgrading and putting in a surgical facility (that is still under construction)
They are a great group of people and do amazing work. Several of my fellow advocates are staunch supporters including some who live in the area and have seen the facilities first hand.
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User is Offline Beka27
Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
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11/09/2012 2:21 PM
This is incredibly sad. Especially since in many areas low-cost neuters can be had for under $100 and that would (most likely) solve the marking problem. It sounds like that little girl is growing attached to him and is willing to learn, but the mom is just not giving him a chance.
Meadow..... Photobucket ...... Max, my angel bunny

User is Offline BeccaLovesMichy
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11/09/2012 3:44 PM
thank you for your empathy, beka... i feel like the weight of all this is crushing me literally. i was crying earlier when i called my sis at work and asked her to ask the mom (who she works with) again if i could get some food and hay for him. she flat out said no. not even no, thank you. it's like she resents me for getting involved, even though i'm stressing out working my butt off trying to find someone responsible to take him off her hands. just last weekend too, while visiting my mom's my boyfriend and i happened upon two amazingly affectionate, sweet cats who we later found out had been flat out abandoned three weeks ago... i swear it's unbearable. we set em' up in my mom's garage then found a good shelter to take them (good adoption rates!) for a 50$ fee. i don't mind helping out these animals, honestly if i can help it makes me happy to do so, but it sucks to have to go around cleaning up after other people's awful "messes," (esp when i can't help immediately, as in this case) and it's traumatizing too to have to witness this cruelty first hand. i'm not only sad, but angry with frustration at this point. i've never been so mad at someone in my life. i feel like after neglecting him his entire short existence, now that she's giving him up entirely, the LEAST she could do is let someone ELSE pay for some basic stuff for him in the meanwhile. i made it clear i am eager and willing to do so. my sis told me the mom said she would pick him up food later, lord knows what she's going to bring back... i asked my sis "and hay?" she repeated my question to her and i heard her say in the background "TAKE THE BUNNY, JUST TAKE HIM!" in apparent exasperation. perhaps she's misinterpreting my desire and sense of obligation to help him as me wanting to own him - not at all the same. i really think she may be insane at this point. what a terrible inconvenience i've caused her making her face up to her abuse and actually spend money and time to take care of a pet she got in the first place.

Thank you Roberta, if I don't hear back from those I've already contacted, I will look into them. I contacted several local rescues on facebook and at least one said she would spread the word.

User is Offline Roberta
Wanneroo, Western Australia
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11/09/2012 3:52 PM
If you can't find a permanent home maybe a friend or neighbour can take him short term especially if you offer to help with the food. I think you need to get him out of there ASAP.
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User is Offline Roberta
Wanneroo, Western Australia
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11/09/2012 3:54 PM
What about your boyfirend, could he take him for a week or his parents if they knew how drastic things are ? Anything to get the bun out before this woman decides to do something.
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User is Offline BeccaLovesMichy
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11/09/2012 4:32 PM
i'm looking into fostering too. the only problem is he needs a cage and everything... my boyfriend lives 4 hours away unfortunately. i think my dad might have been willing to hold him for awhile if he wasn't aware of the fact that he's currently peeing on things. my dad surprised the heck out of me and actually told me he'd pay to have bun neutered...until he found out our vet would want 190 dollars to do it. so far can't find a low cost spay/neuter in our area that's willing to do a rabbit.

User is Offline BeccaLovesMichy
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11/09/2012 4:34 PM
also would have to somehow get the mom to agree to apply for one, since my dad probably makes too much money to qualify for a service like that.

User is Offline tanlover14
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11/09/2012 5:24 PM
The hay is essential beyond anything else. If they are giving him veggies, then the pellets could possibly be done without but having not had a lot of them and not being introduced to them properly I worry all these new things would upset his tummy. Hay is essential though. With the hay and veggies, he won't starve or anything though. But they should ALWAYS be allowed hay. So I would definitely suggest hay over anything else.
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User is Offline BeccaLovesMichy
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11/09/2012 5:54 PM
thank you tan, that's exactly what i was looking to find out. i can definitely spring for a packet of hay for him. even if i tell her he needs this or that, she refuses to believe it! i am astounded by this bun's extraordinary resilience. you'd think he'd be showing signs of being unhealthy (the only thing i maaay have spotted is that the hair on his ears looks like it's thinning a bit?) by now. he has not had hay since a long time ago. i have been giving him 5-6 mini carrots a day and he eats them up greedily, it' s his favorite. he also has been eating a lot of romaine and red lettuce. his poops seem normal to me, although they seem to have doubled in size and become oval shaped?? is that a thing?

User is Offline Roberta
Wanneroo, Western Australia
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11/09/2012 5:58 PM

OK... So Dad is open to temp care if you can get a reasonable priced spay and a cage. Would the Mother let you take the dog cage she was going to use? Especially if it means her being rid of the rabbit. Contact Little Miracles and advise the situation and that if you can get a subsidized spay you can get him a temp home. They will have some contacts and can possibly arrange it for you.. If your Dad is willing to put up with his nasty habits for a day or two you can keep him in an area where he can't do much damage and just put down some plastic around the cage.

Sounds to me like your Dad is seeing the distress this is causing you and because he loves you is willing to try to help in stages. Why not sit down with him and just say "Dad, I am desperate, this is where it currently stands. The rabbit is starving and I am afraid the woman will dump him. I need some suggestions and advice and I am willing to listen to what ever you have but I can't walk away and leave this bun to die or be dumped, it would break my heart even more." You never know if he is completely focused on you and the problem he may think of friends or family that you had not considered approaching to take the rabbit, he may even say just bring him home and we'll work out the details but he has to live in the garage/shed/bathroom/broom cupboard.

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User is Offline Roberta
Wanneroo, Western Australia
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11/09/2012 6:09 PM
Also one of the rescues or shelters may be able to lend you a cage.
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User is Offline Roberta
Wanneroo, Western Australia
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11/09/2012 6:16 PM
Oh, and in the interim take a small baggy of hay in your purse each time you go over. The Mothers objection to the hay may stem from finding a place to store it and the mess it makes.
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User is Offline Beka27
Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
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11/10/2012 3:23 AM
Posted By Roberta on 11/09/2012 08:58 PM

OK... So Dad is open to temp care if you can get a reasonable priced spay and a cage. Would the Mother let you take the dog cage she was going to use? Especially if it means her being rid of the rabbit. Contact Little Miracles and advise the situation and that if you can get a subsidized spay you can get him a temp home. They will have some contacts and can possibly arrange it for you.. If your Dad is willing to put up with his nasty habits for a day or two you can keep him in an area where he can't do much damage and just put down some plastic around the cage.

Sounds to me like your Dad is seeing the distress this is causing you and because he loves you is willing to try to help in stages. Why not sit down with him and just say "Dad, I am desperate, this is where it currently stands. The rabbit is starving and I am afraid the woman will dump him. I need some suggestions and advice and I am willing to listen to what ever you have but I can't walk away and leave this bun to die or be dumped, it would break my heart even more." You never know if he is completely focused on you and the problem he may think of friends or family that you had not considered approaching to take the rabbit, he may even say just bring him home and we'll work out the details but he has to live in the garage/shed/bathroom/broom cupboard.


This is where I'm at.  A temp solution until you can get him placed somewhere would be best at this point.

In general, people don't like being told what they're doing wrong.  She thought she's just getting a rabbit, throw it some food, and whatever.  Now you're making her have to face the type of care he's getting, and she just does not care.  

I wouldn't say anything else about the rabbit until you are ready to take him that day.  I think your dad may be your best option.  You can tell your dad that you KNOW he will need to be caged until he's neutered to minimize marking.  A few weeks of limited exercise isn't IDEAL, but sometimes you have to make sacrifices for the long-term goal.

Meadow..... Photobucket ...... Max, my angel bunny

User is Offline BeccaLovesMichy
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11/10/2012 4:32 AM
thanks guys, i never would have dreamt of even broaching the subject with him - i know him too well. as per the stray cats i did, in typical me fashion, ask for his help and he said he'd pay the drop off fee if there was one, but "you know i can't house them, right?" i also tried feebley to get him to take the little female and he said no. i can imagine his thought process would be A: considering the damage he might do. as i never imagined trying to get him to take bun as a possibility EVER, i have been sharing with him all the difficulties i've had with him, including the spraying, how much work it his to clean up his newspaper area etc. how he went behind the couch and dug up carpet... then there's the issue i believe he's MOST concerned about: getting stuck with this rabbit as his own responsibility. and if he doesn't even want to add a cat? cat's are the easiest animals in the world. i love this bunny, and this whole thing has made me consider rescuing one or two when i am older and settled, but even i can admit taking care of him is hard work. i like to compare it to running around after a toddler or a puppy or something. he did offer advise of putting up posters/calling 4H etc. the shelter annex people suggested i just bring him to their main shelter "the important thing is to get him out asap. at the shelter he'll be warm and fed." well that idea frightens me horribly and i'd rather do anything else. i know both my parents, and even when they are leaning towards something like this it's a VERY hard sell. i think it plays to my favor though that it's been months and i've taken it all on my own and not asked him for anything. i can at least ask. we are technically supposed to pay "pet rent" which is basically stealing from people who love their animals on each one... my sis says she would take him but she's flat out not allowed any in her apt. and she's afraid of getting kicked out. you're right tan, i've really backed off atm as i can sense the mom is becoming impatient and frustrated and i don't want to push her over - she could just say "you're fired. don't come around the rabbit or my kid." then i won't be able to help him at all. berta, certainly i shall be sneaking him food. i don't give a bleep about this woman's pride. i don't care about what she thinks, i only care about BB. she can take that how she will. i'm not generally an extremist, but this situation is making me feel like breaking some rules...

User is Offline LittlePuffyTail
New Brunswick, Canada
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11/11/2012 3:21 AM
i'm not generally an extremist, but this situation is making me feel like breaking some rules...


I feel the exact same way when it comes to the welfare of an animal. But sometimes you have to realize your limits. I want to thank you again for all you are doing to help this little bun.
Proud to be a Bunny Hugger and a voice for the voiceless
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User is Offline BeccaLovesMichy
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11/11/2012 4:04 PM
Thank you LittlePuffy, that means a lot. I don't expect to be thanks, but it's always nice to hear.

I haven't had a chance to talk to my dad as he's been away for the weekend, so the jury's still out on that. No word yet from my friend's roommate though the weekend is long one this time...

Learned a small tidbit and I had to share it with you all, since you've basically all been through this with me, I knew you'd all be equally repulsed. I was on a cartrip with my sister yesterday and we were talking about BB and Bella. I brought up how strange I thought it was that Bella was all "did you hear back from your friend?" "your mom told you about that, you're not upset?" "Nope." Completely unfazed, unbothered, not at all what I expected. I thought she'd at least be a little upset, i know i would be. My sis confessed she'd kept the reason for this from me so as not to upset me but... Bella's mom told her that if they got rid of BB she'd get her a hamster. Can you believe that? Sick minded and very callous. I feel for that future hamster... I told my sister we should give all the pet stores in the area the mom's picture and name and tell them not to sell any hamsters to her.

User is Offline LittlePuffyTail
New Brunswick, Canada
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11/12/2012 1:14 AM
That's awful. I feel your frustration. A barn I used to keep my horse at had a little hutch rabbit. It was totally neglected, I was the only one to ever care for him and show him attention. The little girl got "bored of it" so they stuck him behind the barn and bought her a hamster! What is wrong with people????? I was, luckily, able to find a nice home for the bunny and Cuddles is now a house rabbit living with my friend.
Proud to be a Bunny Hugger and a voice for the voiceless
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User is Offline Beka27
Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
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11/12/2012 1:34 AM
This isn't surprising. The mom probably felt that a "replacement" was in order to appease her daughter. Rabbits are often gotten as "easy, starter pets for kids", but then when they realize the work involved, they feel a "downgrade" is necessary.

I will say that a hamster is an easier pet. A rabbit has similar care requires as a dog or cat... a hamster does not. They need food, water, and a clean cage. I think a hamster should have been the original pet choice in this situation. Pretty much everyone I knew growing up (myself included) started out with a hamster. Unfortunately, I think that she'll be relatively bored with a nocturnal pet after having a more interactive pet like the rabbit. But... who knows?
Meadow..... Photobucket ...... Max, my angel bunny

User is Offline BeccaLovesMichy
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11/13/2012 5:19 AM
my friend's roommate option fell through. this weekend i've been calling everyone i know, rescues 2 hours away i'd be willing to drive to for him, shelters. i've been driving myself nuts with worry. so i text the mom a few minutes ago telling her the sitch and she tells me she found him a home... wow. thanks for letting me know. i've only been killing myself trying to find someone to take him and worrying about it, because she TOLD ME TO FIND SOMEONE. when she said that my stomach just dropped. here is a woman who was previously abusing her rabbit and considering keeping him outdoors all winter until i came along, being responsible for finding someone else to take him for her. that doesn't seem like a very productive situation to me. this is one of the things i was worried about. all she'll tell me is that it's "someone my mom knows." i didn't know how to ask her if she had informed them of his urination habits or that he's not neutered. i can totally see this new person getting him home, finding out he pees all over their stuff and shutting him outdoors, keeping him in a cage permanently, or dumping him. i told her that if it doesn't work out with them i'd take him. i doubt she'll tell them that. i also told her a vet that'll do a bunny neuter for 65$, no prerequisites. i was considering taking him to get neutered myself if he didn't find a home soon. i don't trust this new person one second. but how can i ask laci (the mom) if the new person knows all the things a bunny needs/how much investment is involved? she doesn't care in the first place!!!! that's why i wanted to be in charge of finding him a new home. i bet she purposefully didn't tell them he's been marking. why not just bring him to a shelter rather than send him into someone's home and not prepare them for the inevitability that he'll pee on their stuff. they're just going to dump him again! i should have just taken him in like everyone said no matter what when she was still willing to give him over to me directly, now it's too late and who knows where he's going. i don't know how to deal with this, it's just heartbreaking. after everything i've been through with this rabbit, to think about him going somewhere laci has chosen... somewhere worse. it almost feels like she's doing this (or at least keeping me out of the loop) to spite me. maybe i'm just over-worrying this and he'll be ok - but i'd hate to think what will happen if laci didn't tell them about the marking thing. they'll be so angry.

User is Offline Beka27
Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
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11/13/2012 6:31 AM
Wow. Just... wow. I hope for the bunny's sake that this is a good home.

I don't know if the mom would pass on the HRS site or this site to the new owner. If so, we can delete this thread.
Meadow..... Photobucket ...... Max, my angel bunny

User is Offline BeccaLovesMichy
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11/13/2012 6:52 AM
she would not do anything of the sort. i think she has wiped her hands of all this. it is possible that the new owner might look up bunny care and find this site, but i don't know that it's likely that they would look at the forums or click on this thread for any reason. at this point, i don't know that keeping this "job" would even be worth making sure she never saw this or knew about it. lately i've been working 2-3 days for babysitting, this week only 2... not sure if she's trying to phase me out or something. i'm going to have a to start looking for another job soon anyway. i told the mom about the low cost neuter and that i'd take him if the new home didn't work out (just so they don't decide to dump him or lock him away) and she ignored the text and changed the subject. i even said... if he's not neutered he's going to spray in their home as well and just no response. i wish she could get it through her head that it's not about her, nor is it coming from a place of criticism. most animal rescues do a background check, some even a home inspection before they'll adopt out an animal to a person, and that's because they CARE, because they don't want to just hand over the animals to some nut job whose just going to abuse them or ditch them again. i would only not want to delete the thread because i'm kind of attached to it... and also so I could continue to update the people involved in the future if i even hear anything about him again. i don't even know what to do with the little bag of hay i bought for him... i'm only going to get to see him twice this week, then he's going away. i'm afraid if i leave it at her house for the new people to take, they won't want it or she'll just throw it away, perhaps out of anger that i went against her wishes to starve him... i think she might avoid giving him hay because of the way it smells. i have been desperately trying t ofind him a home all week, calling everywhere, posting on facebook - i'm friends with several rescues and shelters on fb too, and she happens to find someone over the weekend. it just seems weird. that's why i can only imagine that they don't know what they're getting into. i wish there was some way i could get their number and tell them directly that i'd take him back if they end up not wanting him. i just fear this will be the same exact situation repeating itself over and over. ignorant person adopts rabbit, find out what rabbit care really entails, gets rid of him by giving him to another ignorant person...

User is Offline Beka27
Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
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11/13/2012 9:49 AM
I understand your concerns. You've really stepped up and tried your best to provide for this bun with your limited resources. At this point, it's out of your hands. Try to take comfort in knowing that you did what you could. If you ever decide to take on a rabbit of your own, I have no doubt that you'll be an amazing bunny owner.
Meadow..... Photobucket ...... Max, my angel bunny

User is Offline BeccaLovesMichy
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11/13/2012 10:53 AM
Thank you Beka, that is such a sweet thing to say, and you know what? I've been beating myself up a little bit thinking "what was the point of all this?" when i just thought of what the point really was. It was so that I could learn about rabbits and get to know/open my heart to a little rabbit who needed me. And now I think when I am older, graduated, more stable, and have a place of my own, I plan to rescue at least one or two rabbits, in honor of BB, which I never would have thought to do before I met him and grew to love him. So this experience has not gone to waste!

Today BB was acting very different. He showed little interest in running around/binkying/playing, and while he usually would lay next to us or near us on the rug, he just kept running back into his bathroom space in the corner. When I came in with food he was jumping up at me, trying to rip the bag away, and really acting wild. I may have misinterpreted his actions, but I do believe he was lunging at me when I entered his living space. He was even acting nervous when I tried to pet him and kept bucking... it's like he's a different rabbit. I can only guess this is because he is still not neutered, right? He was not acting like this just last week! Which makes me even more concerned about his new owners and how they will handle a growingly aggressive rabbit...

I brought him some Tim hay and he did seem to enjoy eating it, as I expected.

User is Offline Roberta
Wanneroo, Western Australia
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11/13/2012 1:50 PM
Hopefully she will tell your sister who is taking them, your sister might even know them and be able to reassure you.
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User is Offline BeccaLovesMichy
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11/14/2012 10:58 AM
i don't think my sister would know them, unfortunately. she even admitted that she and the mom are not that close friends - she's very distant i guess. today i said goodbye to BB - he's going to his new place this sunday, and there's no school the rest of the week so i won't see him again. the mom must have thrown away the rabbit packet i made for her kid (angry!) so i ran back to my place to print out another one. i left the bag of hay and the packet in a plastic bag by the door and instructed B to make sure the new folks take it with them when they come to get him. last minute i thought to insert a little message with my number on the very last page (hopefully they'll look at the packet and not just chuck it.) BB is definitely getting more aggressive, I can really see it now. he charged one of B's cats today and actually jumped up at her - it looked like he was attacking her, but she didn't cry out so i don't think he bit her... i hope these folks can handle it. i don't know if there's a neuter window with bunnies where the surgery with cause a cease in this behavior. i was worried if they waited too long to do it, he might keep spraying and being aggressive regardless.

User is Offline tanlover14
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11/15/2012 6:38 AM
I can't get over what a heart breaking situation this whole thing has been, especially for you and BB. Thanks from us all for helping the bun in every way you possibly could though.
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User is Offline BeccaLovesMichy
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11/18/2012 9:40 AM
thank you, tan, that is so sweet of you to say. my sister just gave me more info that the person taking BB is someone who breeds and sells rabbits... i'm not sure if i should be relieved (that they probably maybe know how to care for rabbits?) or horrified because he isn't going to a home after all, and i have no idea what this person's intentions are for him. is she/he going to breed BB? is it like a puppymill situation? i assume he's going to be outside anyway, if they have that many, and they are probably going to either breed him or sell him or both... i guess i can only assume this is bad news, since it's probably a backyard breeder. ugh. this just keeps getting more and more disturbing. i feel like kind of a chump for putting together my little bag of hay and an information packet...

i'm sorry, i know it says we are not supposed to talk about breeding rabbits, trust me, i'm not happy to, it's just the reality of the situation... does that hold true for what i said in this post? feel free to delete it if it's not ok...

User is Offline Beka27
Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
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11/18/2012 10:47 AM
Breeding is a fact of life, no pun intended. It does sound like he may be used as a breeding rabbit, or if not, sold to someone who wants a rabbit. I hope he ends up in a home eventually. What you've said here isn't against the rules. The rule is for members who are seeking advice on breeding or talking about intentionally breeding rabbits, whether on purpose or through negligence.
Meadow..... Photobucket ...... Max, my angel bunny

User is Offline Hazel
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11/19/2012 10:54 AM
Does your sister know who they are, or could she find out? Maybe you could go and get him?
"You ain't buna fide!"

User is Offline BeccaLovesMichy
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11/19/2012 12:14 PM
she doesn't know. i asked the little girl and she couldn't even tell me where they're located. i'm sensing a growing aggression, (not just in BB) in the mom, and i doubt she'd be willing to tell me anything. i say this in particular because i left a container with a teensy bit of hay in it in the bathroom and it was gone when i arrived today (BB is going away Wednesday now instead) and also my bag of hay was still by the door but... SHE THREW AWAY THE BUNNY INFO PACKET. that reeeeeeeeally made me angry, since i ran back to my apartment JUST to print out a new one after finding out the original i made for her kid was also gone. it's not like printer ink is expensive or anything (sarcasm,) i may have liked that back if she was just going to throw it away. maybe she did it because she knew he was going to someone who already owns rabbits, therefore thought it was silyl to give to them, but i strongly suspect she did as some weird show of control/passive aggressiveness towards me which is really weird. what does she care if it's not even her rabbit anymore? at this point i just have to let myself assume the best, that these people (even if the idea and irony of a neglected/unwanted bunny being surrendered to another breeder to possibly be used to make MORE rabbits is sickening...) know what they're doing and will take good care of him. i have to believe that because otherwise i'm going to go insane. my sister might find out (if the mom even knows herself where he's going) but i'm sure the mom would know it was really me asking and she might be withholding or just freak out. i really feel she's a loose canon right now - i think she's just insane with stress. she probably conveniently forgets the fact that she got the rabbit in the first place. it's always got to be someone else's fault, right? i tried looking up breeders in my area, but there are a surprisingly large amount of them, and i have no clue which one it might be, if they're even registered.

User is Offline Beka27
Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
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11/20/2012 7:10 AM
I will say, some breeders are conscientious of who they breed. They would not breed a rabbit of unknown lineage. There are also breeders who "rescue", as oxy-moronic as it sounds. These people take in rabbits and sell them for a few bucks to people looking for a pet who do not care about having a pure-bred rabbit. This is a possibility. Again, I hope wherever he ends up, he is well-cared for.
Meadow..... Photobucket ...... Max, my angel bunny

User is Offline BeccaLovesMichy
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11/20/2012 8:07 AM
yeah, that makes sense. i guess i was just fearing the worst that it was going to be like a puppymill, but not necessarily. if they're willing to make a trip to the mom's house to get him, perhaps it's a sign they care? when i brought up the possibility of him being used for breeding, the little girl seemed put off and confused like "no, they probably just really like rabbits and want to keep him to take care of him." who knows, but i appreciate your well wishes for him, and i am strongly hoping the same. BB is definitely not up to the breed (i THINK he's supposed to be a mini lop?) standard, i can tell from his ears, so hopefully you are right and they just want to rescue him. i sense that the mom and kid don't know these people very well, it's a very loose connection, so it doesn't seem likely they'd JUST be doing or mostly be doing it as a big favor to them.

BINKYBUNNY FORUMS > HOUSE RABBIT Q & A > Concern About a Rabbit

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