BINKYBUNNY FORUMS > BONDING > Samson and Lady's Excellent Bonding Adventure-Bonded!!
Last Post by Sam and Lady's Human at 5/19/2012 6:56 AM (62 Replies)
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User is Offline Sam and Lady's Human
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12/29/2011 10:05 AM

So I figured I'd start this now, since an end to the 2 cages split house is finally in sight  Lady is getting spayed on the 4th of January!

 

Ok so to start, Samson is a 4 1/4lb 10 month lionhead girl, spayed. She roams the house, but has her own xpen.

Lady is a 4 month old flemish giant girl, she is getting spayed a little early, but I have talked to my vet about it and since shes displaying some hormonal behavior (scenting and chinning everything for one), hes comfortable with spaying her at 4 1/2 months. She's about 6lbs at this point.

 

To start with bonding,  I've kept them separeted since I got lady 2 months ago. They are in xpens side by side, but about 2 inches apart. Battle of the poops has been bad, Samson didn't start creating her own piles until Lady escaped into her pen and chinned everything :/ That was about a week ago, so its been..annoying

Since then, I've hung a blanket between the 2 pens so they don't have a visual anymore while in their pens. Its worked wonders, Lady poops 90% in her box now instead of 20%, and Samsons back to normal }
"{ =ppl[; <---- thats from Lady

When they are out during the day, I stretch out Samsons xpen to the wall, so she get the bedrooms and the hall way, Lady gets the kitchen and living room. There is only 1 xpen separeting them during the day, so I watch. Samson tends to spend most of the day on the other side of the house in our bedroom, but sometimes she comes out.

One time the gate was left open on a rare occasion I wasn't home, and Lady got out, and they scuffled Fortunately we didn't have a rug at the time, just hardwood so they didn't get enought traction to do any serious damage. This was at about 3 weeks I think? Anyway.

So after about 3 or 4 weeks of interest from Lady, but total ignoring from Samson, they started meeting through the bars during play time. They'd both stick their noses through the fence and ask for grooms, and both refused to groom each other so I'd sit there with them (to prevent fights as well) and pet both noses (sometimes with a little water on my hands to add a little friction, more like grooming). They'd walk away happy. At this point if they'd try to demand grooms and I wasn't there petting, they'd box a little through the xpen. I'm always within a few feet of the wall so no damage would happen. I also keep a squirt bottle nearby to disuade fighting

 

Finally at about 6 weeks, they started to groom each other, and for decent periods of time, still through the xpen though.

(excuse all the background noise! I don't know how to mute that haha)

 


User is Offline Sam and Lady's Human
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12/29/2011 10:06 AM
Anyway, so thats pretty much up to date, I'll wait probably 2 more weeks after Lady is spayed, and then the true bonding commences!

User is Offline Sarita
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12/29/2011 10:23 AM
You might be one of the lucky bonders who's rabbits get along right away! I've had that happen a few times so it can definitely happen.

User is Offline Sam and Lady's Human
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12/29/2011 10:30 AM
I sure hope so! The hard part is going to be to find a neutral spot to introduce, since they literally roam all over the house. I figured grooming is a good sign though at least!

User is Offline Sam and Lady's Human
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1/13/2012 2:43 PM

Alright so I had their first bonding session, it was 2 days earlier than I wanted, but Lady managed to escape into Samsons area and they were doing circles so I put Samson in Ladys pen and created a second pen connected to that with Lady in it. I used a laundry bucket and a broom, and set out salads. It went pretty good, no grooming and a couple scuffles, but ok considering... Feel free to fast forward, I'm still working on editing hah
 

 


User is Offline Sam and Lady's Human
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1/13/2012 2:46 PM
Yesterday I did another session, a little longer about 15 minutes? I tried out in our complex hallway because it was for sure neutral, and being a new area it was intimidating for both. They had a small scuffle, but no fur pulled, I forgot my camera by the time I got the hamper,broom,veggies,litterbox and bunnies out there hah. No grooming yet but nose to nose for short bits.

User is Offline mocha200
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1/13/2012 3:01 PM
They look like they are dong great together! BTW, I LOVE Lady's tail!
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User is Offline Sam and Lady's Human
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1/13/2012 3:35 PM
Isn't it great? I pet it sometimes. Its just so big!! She was 8.5 lbs at the vet today!

User is Offline Sam and Lady's Human
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1/13/2012 3:58 PM

And here's todays session! I moved it to the laundry room with great success I think! They never go in there, and I threw a couple sneakers in the dryer and ran it, along with playing some Pantera (loud angry music) for several minutes to basically stress them a little. Samson fake groomed Lady twice (smudged banana on their faces) but Lady didn't groom Samson at all   They had a couple of really minor scuffles that only lasted a half a second and they worked out themselves, I didn't have to interviene. I also pet their heads together, they sat nose to nose for a couple minutes and were good, just refused to groom each other. Willful bunnies I have!!!Total time today was about 30 minutes-ish

Here ya go, not super exciting since its a lot of ignoring but I guess thats good!!

 

 


User is Offline Malp_15
British Columbia, Canada
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1/13/2012 4:24 PM
They are the CUTEST pair!

User is Offline bunnyfriend
Wisconsin
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1/13/2012 5:26 PM
Awhhh heehee Lady is getting so pretty and Samson is as cute as a button next to her Looks like bonding is off to a good start
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User is Offline LBJ10
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1/13/2012 6:45 PM
Glad it hasn't been a bogus journey. Hehe!

User is Offline Sam and Lady's Human
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1/13/2012 6:52 PM
Haha *like*

User is Offline SirThumpsey
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1/13/2012 7:23 PM
that tail and those EARS! omgosh those ears!

and their noses going double time! so cute!

Looks like Lady bought the fake groom! lol

I cant be of too much help cause bud and halo were almost instant..but Good luck!

User is Offline Sam and Lady's Human
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1/13/2012 7:27 PM
Haha there's a lot of funny parts in that, if you really look. There's one part where Lady goes to meet Samson without Samson noticing, then when Samson notices she hops around and puts her back to her for a bit And Lady totally melts when Samson grooms her, she just wants loove!
I'm going to do another 30 minute tomorrow morning, then a second one in the evening tomorrow

User is Offline emkvet
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1/14/2012 2:34 AM
They are ridiculously cute together. I love how Lady's eyes close when Sam starts grooming her. You have such beautiful buns, and I'm happy that bonding is going well for you!

User is Offline Sarita
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1/14/2012 4:47 AM
The broom idea is great! Lady loves her veggies doesn't she LOL.

User is Offline LoveChaCha
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1/14/2012 8:38 AM
This is a really good bonding journal with good videos
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User is Offline Elrohwen
Hudson Valley, NY
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1/14/2012 9:36 AM
They're looking really good! Samson seems very easy going and completely unconcerned with having another rabbit so close. Lady definitely seems more apprehensive, but with the way things are going she'll probably build confidence pretty fast.

Lady's ears are precious, btw.
- Elrohwen

User is Offline Sam and Lady's Human
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1/14/2012 2:22 PM
Bad day today Didn't get the chance to try until about 5pm, put Samson in in her cardboard house, then added box and Lady and was setting up the loud music when they started to fight Some serious tufts of hair were pulled, and they both were on their side, latched onto each other and took me a few precious seconds to separate them. I looked them over and felt very thoroughly and nothing felt wrong or was bleeding Still very disturbing. I haven't decided if I'm going to give them a week break or try more, 2 seconds before I put them in the laundry room they were grooming through the bars! I think they are just trying to drive me crazy.

User is Offline Sarita
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1/15/2012 4:55 AM
I would not put a cardboard box in there at all...I had a situation where a pair I had bonded had all the sudden starting fighting. The adopter brought them to me to help rebond or see what the problem was. It was the boxes in the pair's area. Apparently big girl Boo would get frustrated because she couldn't get in the box, but Coco could. It caused territorial problems. Once the hidey holes and boxes were gone, they were fine. So give it a try without any cardboard houses or boxes and see if that helps.

User is Offline Sam and Lady's Human
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1/15/2012 5:48 AM
Ugh I really hope it was the box. Silly me didn't even think of there being a territorial issue >.<

User is Offline Elrohwen
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1/15/2012 6:06 AM
Yeah, I would say it's probably the box. The only accessories I used during bonding were litter boxes and a pile of hay. When they moved in together and were cementing for a couple weeks they lived in just a pen with the necessities - no hiding places. Once they're fully bonded then you can start introducing things they may be territorial of.
- Elrohwen

User is Offline mocha200
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1/15/2012 5:53 PM
I had the same problem with my buns. I couldn't use a hidey house or things would just get out of hand. Bunnies can be so touchy sometimes, but, I still love them. Keep up the good work and don't give up!
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User is Offline Sam and Lady's Human
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1/17/2012 2:37 PM
No video today, but it was better, no grooming and a couple nips from Samson, but mostly ignoring. Samson seemed SUPER stressed

User is Offline Sam and Lady's Human
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1/17/2012 5:32 PM
So its been a quiet evening, and I decided to work on another bonding session. About 20 minutes long, I stuck the bunnies beds in the washer and though, hey this might be a good way to mix it up. SO I put them both in a litterbox with some oat hay, and ran the washer. Only one small nip from Samson (at which point I took her out and took advantage of the situation and trimmed her nails ) and then set her on the dryer next to the litter box, and she jumped back in the litter box and they sat together for a few more minutes. Now my hands were petting and grooming most of this time, I'd stop for maybe a minute at most but I'm a little gun shy about them fighting again so I might be hovering a bit. We ended on a good note, and I put both buns back home

User is Offline Elrohwen
Hudson Valley, NY
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1/18/2012 3:47 AM
Sounds like a good positive session!

I was definitely a hover-er. I probably interrupted them too often, but it all worked out in the end. It might be faster to bond them if you let them work some things out, but as an inexperienced bonder I didn't trust that they wouldn't hurt each other. I figure the hovering just makes it take a little longer, but if it makes you feel better, then do it! It definitely made me feel better to interrupt chasing and humping behavior.
- Elrohwen

User is Offline Sam and Lady's Human
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1/21/2012 6:13 PM
I'm slacking on the videos! My battery was dead from a shoot earlier.

So last night I had another session, 30 minutes. They were kinda aggressive, but it seemed more from not knowing what to expect from the other, like if Lady turned too fast Samson would nip at her and run off. Finally I squished them together and groomed them with a damp papertowel, side by side foreevverr, for like 20 mintues stopping every so often to let the move a little and see if they would groom. Finally Lady groomed Samson (Yes!) but then a couple minutes later Lady moved too fast and Samson nipped her and pulled fur so I squished them together and groomed them a couple more minutes, ended on a good-ish note and put them both to bed. *sigh*

User is Offline Sam and Lady's Human
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1/23/2012 5:32 AM
2 more uninspiring bonding sessions, last night and this morning I put both buns in the kitchen and gave them their salads. I'm a little torn on it, on one hand Samson seems MUCH less stressed to have more room to escape if necessary, and therefore she's much more relaxed around Lady, she sneaks up and sniffs her every so often or will walk around her and even touch noses real quick, but spends most of her time about 6 feet away eating a romaine leaf she snatched and bounced off with. Lady doesn't care either way, which is a problem with having food there :/ My husband noted she's like Spike on The Land Before Time, she just sits and eats and pretty much zones out haha. If I take the food away she pursues Samson, not to nip or anything I don't *think*, more to ask for groomies but that stresses Samson out and Samson usually checks her (nips the top of her nose?) and then they scramble to split.

So I think I'm gonna have them eat their salads (or most, since Samsons more of a grazer and takes all night to eat hers) together in the morning and evening to get Samson more accustomed to being near Lady?

I think I forgot to say this in the last one, but the time before that I bonded in the laundry room on top of the washer, then I clipped Samsons nails and squished them together some more. I think this was too much for Sam, she was completely pissed at me the next couple of days, to the point where she'd growl at me if I even walked by. Hence the reason I'm now trying the hopefully less stressful intros.

User is Offline Sarita
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1/23/2012 5:35 AM
Uninspiring is good. Sounds like she's just sizing Lady up for now. I wouldn't be worried about the fact that there is no grooming.

I had a bonded pair that I don't ever think groomed - they were definitely snuggly and laid next to each other, but no grooming.

User is Offline Sam and Lady's Human
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1/28/2012 7:21 PM
Leaps and bounds today!!
Samson was grooming Lady through the bars, so immediately after she ran into the kitchen and I baby gated it off, then went in with Lady. Samson ran up to Lady,(at which point I nearly freaked out) and then started giving her groomies and eye kisses!!! <3 As soon as she was done she ran off, and Lady started to follow her and I let her, they did this nose to nose thing and then kinda split off (no nipping though, which is good!) but it makes Samson nervous when Lady runs toward her (no wonder at 9lbs!) so I split them up immediately and then had some 1 on 1 bonding with me and them and some treats I'm just so proud of them1

User is Offline Monkeybun
Hillsboro, Oregon
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1/28/2012 8:19 PM
With me it worked better for bonding by having the smaller area as it makes them interact instead of pretending they are in their own little "other bunny free" world. So you may want to try smaller areas at some point too after they get more used to being around each other.

User is Offline Sam and Lady's Human
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2/05/2012 6:53 PM
Had a painful hour session today hah. Went fairly well for the girls, a lot of grooming from Samson, a couple small grooms from Lady, a couple confused circles where they each tried to be the lowest and burrow under each others bums (all the while I'm freaking out haha). They're getting there, I think. No mean biting, just a couple times where they surprised each other. I let them move about a bit more, but they stayed nose to nose most of the time. The whole time I'm practically biting my nails, its a bit nerve wracking for them to be so close! Gonna try to continue with the hour sessions.

User is Offline Sam and Lady's Human
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2/19/2012 7:10 PM
Well, we're on hold for a while I think. We had to do some sneaky cage moving because our washing machine broke and we didn't know if the landlord was gonna stop by. (we're not allowed cats or dogs, but the lease don't mention bunnies...)
Anyway, I ended up scrubbing and cleaning all day, and then having Lady loose in the house and Samson kept to our bedroom (where she stays most of the time anyway). We ended up leaving Lady loose in the living room all night, and Samson in the bedroom. When I got up, I expected a poop disaster like always, since Lady hasn't been litter box trained since I got her, and every single poop and pee was in the box. Apparently even spayed, not having Samson around means 100% litter habits. Same with Samson. Ugh. So we kept it like this for like a week, then tried to put them both back next to each other, and POOP and pee disaster. It was awful. So then we wanted to be able to put Lady in for the night since we made Samson a pen setup in our room for the night, and as soon as she was in her pen she pooped everywhere, I think because it was normally Sams corner. So now shes back to Living room and Sam gets bedroom +hall, pen at night.

Officially, bonding is on hold. They groom through the bars daily for a minute, kinda just to check in and then go back to their areas. We're moving in about 4 months, so I'm hoping the long drive down will stress them a little bit, and then the new house will be easier to bond them in.

I'm bummed for their sake, but they aren't like, fighting really, just jumpy around each other, so if all they need is time then I can do that

User is Offline Hazel
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2/21/2012 5:19 AM
I'm sorry you had to put everything on hold, but it's great that they haven't been fighting! And I agree, the new house should help with the bonding. Are you gonna take new bonding videos in the future? Please??
"You ain't buna fide!"

User is Offline Sam and Lady's Human
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2/21/2012 8:18 AM
Lol yes I will! I've been slacking, my camera battery seems like its always dead lately.

User is Offline Hazel
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2/21/2012 12:05 PM

I hear ya... My camera battery dies all the time, in fact I'm charging it right now lol. I'm trying to convince Hubby that, since we are getting a new bunny, we definately need a new/better camera

"You ain't buna fide!"

User is Offline Sam and Lady's Human
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3/02/2012 3:35 PM
Well, I followed the bunnies cues and did a lot of bonding today. I found both girls grooming through the pen, so I poured some pellets in the kitchen and they both went in there. We've had 3 hour long sessions of grooming, eating, cleaning themselves, a couple very minor checks, and finally in third session got some good flops from Samson. Lady doesn't groom her really, I don't know whats that about, but leaps and bounds today

User is Offline SirThumpsey
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3/02/2012 4:45 PM
Yay! I am so excited for you! I'm glad to hear it is going well!

User is Offline Sam and Lady's Human
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3/04/2012 11:25 AM
So I think today is the day! Lady hasn't groomed Sam much, but lots of grooming by Sam, flops from both as well as one flop together, no nipping/checking at all, and we're going on about 4 hours straight of them being in the kitchen together supervised (and tg I have the laptop to keep me entertained!).

User is Offline Hazel
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3/04/2012 12:29 PM

Crossing my fingers!

"You ain't buna fide!"

User is Offline SirThumpsey
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3/04/2012 3:17 PM
YAY!

User is Offline Sam and Lady's Human
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3/06/2012 6:56 AM
Gah these 2 are so frustrating. After 2 good days in the kitchen, I tried them in the living room, and they fought >.< It's hard to tell who instigating, I'm just stuck at what to do now.

User is Offline SirThumpsey
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3/09/2012 4:37 AM
Hmm, How long was your longest session in the kitchen?

And I'm guessing living room isn't neutral? Maybe stress them a little bit while they are in there...If you need to vacuum, you could kill two birds with one stone (not that I condone the killing of birds...)

Sorry, I can't help too much, Halo and Bud were almost an instant bond.

User is Offline Sam and Lady's Human
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3/09/2012 5:32 AM
Like, 5 hours or more? They don't care about the vacuum, or much of anything hah. I've got a 3 and 4 year old so spontaneous noise doesn't disturb them. We're still working in the kitchen. It seems like a couple things are happening, Sam demands grooms and Lady doesn't give them, and every once in a while one will try to groom the others hindquarters and they are both jumpy about that. They've done a couple little spats but no bunny circles in a couple sessions so we're getting there....

User is Offline Sam and Lady's Human
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3/15/2012 12:06 PM
I seeee the liggghhtt

Its been hours. Like, 8-9 hours, of grooming from Sam, eating, flopping, pooping, general hanging out-ness in the kitchen with the bunnies without a single scuffle.

This is going to sound weird, but it seems like Sam is bonded to Lady, but Lady isn't bonded to Sam. She's kinda indifferent, doesn't groom her, just asks for groomies all the time, or a few times wanted out of the kitchen. Shes comfortable with her, and not aggressive in the kitchen, she'll even full on dead bunny pass out next to Sam. I dont know. Maybe she is bonded? I just wish she would groom Sam!! Is Honey toxic? could I put a teeeny tiny dot of honey on Sams head to encourage some grooms? Sam like, BEGS for some love and I feel so bad

User is Offline piperknitsRN
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3/15/2012 12:24 PM

Here's my experience:  Simon rarely grooms Olive, and in the beginning of their bond, I was pretty sure Olive was doing all the grooming.  But, I do occasionally see Simon grooming Olive now that we are several months into their bond.  I don't know about honey; I used a little mashed banana on their foreheads--but there again, it was mostly Olive grooming Simon.  They both cuddle and flop next to each other, so I think the mostly-one-way-grooming thing is ok.  Olive does beg for "groomies" from Simon, but rarely gets them. 


User is Offline Sam and Lady's Human
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3/15/2012 12:51 PM
I've tried banana, Lady just grabs it off and is done haha. I've seen her groom her like, once or twice, through the bars. I just feel like if she did, they would be officially done hah.

User is Offline Sam and Lady's Human
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3/16/2012 6:21 AM
Alright! So after about 11 hours in the kitchen, I separated the bunnies. Lady kept standing at the fence, so I decided to let her out and see how Samson acted if Lady was near her turf. With Sam locked in her pen in my bedroom, Lady ran around and did super large binkies, and basically ignored Sam with the occasional check in nose to nose through the bars. No scuffles.

So after about 30 minutes of this, I blocked off under the bed and practically sat on Lady (no worries, I groom her this way, with her on the floor between my knees, she doesn't mind) and opened pen so Sam could come out. I watched super close, with spare hands ready, but Sam just walked up, asked for a groom, then started grooming Lady. Then Sam sniffed around and checked out all the places Lady had been, and Lady checked out Sams house.

Sam has stopped territorial pooping, but Lady hasn't >.< that was the main reason I separated them last night, because I don't think Lady is in looove yet. They hung out in the bedroom for a couple of hours, both in Sams pen (which she was ok with, no grunting or stressed posture) and then Lady led them down the hall and they checked out Ladys area. Sam went to the rug and flopped, Lady flopped about 4 feet away. I watched and read for about 30 minutes then separated them for the night.I put Sam in her pen by the bed, but she kept sitting by the door and giving me a look (ok not really but I *totally* felt the sadness haha) so I let her out for the night and she ran down the hall and laid by the gate that separates them. I'm not sure how long or anything either of them were down there

And now we're back in the kitchen. For another long day of bonding...

User is Offline Sam and Lady's Human
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3/16/2012 7:04 AM
Apparently I'm a bunny too

So on a whim, I was like, you know what, maybe if Lady sees me grooming Sam, she'll be like, ohhh duh!

So I got down on the ground and Sam came over (shes been super happy lately) and I gave her a couple pets so she put her head all the way down for groomies, and then I "groomed" her with my nose and gave her kisses. Immediately Lady came over and watched us for a second, then scooched in and groomed Lady for a few minutes!!!! <3 <3 <3

User is Offline Sam and Lady's Human
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3/16/2012 7:36 AM
Bahaha OH NO.

Apparently Lady grooming Sam back finally...means Sam wants to be the dominant one. Lady was dead bunny flopped against the wall, Sam went and groomed her, then went behind and humped her!! Poor Lady jumped awake and shot off. No scuffles though. I've never seen Sam hump anything!!!

User is Offline LoveChaCha
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3/16/2012 9:35 AM
Oh my goodness! LOL
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User is Offline Sam and Lady's Human
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3/19/2012 4:52 AM
Do bunnies spend 100% of time together if they are bonded?

User is Offline Sarita
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3/19/2012 5:42 AM
I would say if they are spending 100% of the time together with no problems, they are bonded. They will continue to cement their relationship but no fighting, sharing food, litter box, etc...to me that's bonded!

User is Offline Sam and Lady's Human
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3/19/2012 5:04 PM
Well I think they are bonded! Tonight will be their first night over night, but they've had full reign of the house for 3 days now and there hasn't been any fights. They aren't attached at the hip, but they spend probably half the day together running around and sleeping. They share litter boxes ( even at the same time haha) hay, salads and pellets, only separated for a few hours at night and even then Sam usually sleeps by the gate. Crossing my fingers!!!

User is Offline emkvet
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3/19/2012 6:41 PM
Congratulations! This is very exciting for you! I hope all continues going well! Sending (((bonding vibes)))!!!!

User is Offline Sam and Lady's Human
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3/20/2012 8:30 AM
We had an overnight success!! Sam is still trying to hump lady, which is annoying, but lady just moves away.

User is Offline bunnyfriend
Wisconsin
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5/07/2012 5:10 PM
How is the bonding going now??
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User is Offline Sam and Lady's Human
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5/18/2012 11:15 AM
We're very bonded here! The humping has pretty much stopped, and they are close Lady still isn't litterboxed trained while in her pen, she poops everywhere >.< I'm hoping that'll fade with time/ and or when we move.

User is Offline Sarita
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5/18/2012 11:26 AM
Yay! That's great. So glad that is done.

User is Offline Sam and Lady's Human
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5/18/2012 2:09 PM
Me too, I thought it never was going to happen!

User is Offline bunnyfriend
Wisconsin
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5/18/2012 3:13 PM

Awhhhh yayy!! I'm glad everything worked out. You'll have to post pictures of them being cute together

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User is Offline Sam and Lady's Human
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5/19/2012 6:56 AM
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BINKYBUNNY FORUMS > BONDING > Samson and Lady's Excellent Bonding Adventure-Bonded!!

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