Hehe! Thanks

However, it seems we got a litlle complacent as our hour session tonight wasn't quite as fruitful. We put them in a section of our bedroom again, this time without the X-pen and let them run around. Things were OK for about 2 minutes before a scuffle broke out (I was busy plugging the vaccum cleaner in "just in case") and we had to send them to opposite ends of the space. Anita (my GF) got some nice flesh wounds as a souvenir . We stuck them in the box for some vaccum cleaner stress bonding for a few minutes, which was followed by some lovely snuggling together. Once we'd got them back out into the play area, they probably had 3 more attempted nips, instigated by both bunnies.

The only way I can describe what happens most of the time is this:

*Sidle up, ears forward. Sniff. Back off. Sidle up again. Sniff. Back off. Ears back. Lunge.*

It happens like this almost every time (see the vid on my previous post). Is this "classic" bunny scrapping? It's so hard to tell if they're going to nip in these instances, as I'd say 50% of the time they sidle foward, sniff and then one of them hops away .

We feel a bit "lost" again; we don't really know what's the best way to continue. Same thing? 1 hour a night of playtime together? Should we try a smaller area so they are forced into each other's space? Or should we still be stress bonding?

Grrr...I had such trouble loading vids lately. I want to see!!
I have to rely on your verbal report. It sounds like normal progression. I saw a slight setback too when I moved into new bonding space. Maybe try short stress technique then pop them into the xpen. You might not even have to use the vac, even just putting them in the box then walking around with it for a bit before going to the pen may be enough. One thing that was suggested to me was to peg sheets around the pen to create a sense of smaller space. I found there was less distraction by what was outside the pen.

The ears flattening is an aggressive stance. Do you interject with a vocal command, or some other method, to which they respond? I'm thinking perhaps do this when you see that aggression arising. The curiosity is good though. In the pen, try just petting them both . With petting them side by side, you can swap hands between them, transferring each others scent. Also, you may want to give them some food to share - another positive and social experience.  They may not interact independantly but if they're in the pen just doing normal bunny things (like grooming themselves) this is ok. To me that means they're not totally on guard and feel comfortable enough to do normal activities.

It worked! Smaller space, 15 minutes of forced snuggling in the box after walking around with it was enough to make them really snuggly, with Miranda even flopping out right next to Ariel!

For the next 30 minutes we had them out of the box. There was one minor incident we couldnt diffuse with the spray gun but other than that we managed to stop another escalating before it even happened (ears back=wet head!). They said hello nicely a few times and ended up eating near each other so after they'd finished eating we ended the session, much happier than yesterday  Good bunnies!

This is really weird, but we seem to be alternating every day between good progress and not so good.

Last night they were good as gold for 20 minutes, including 10 minutes of forced snuggling in which Miranda flopped out again. They ate together again and I pre-emptively squirted once Ariel for having her ears back during a greeting. Poor baby - she always gets it!!

Then, 5 minutes before twe were going to wrap up they did their usual "nose touch, back off, ears back" and I managed to get a good squirt of water in but forgot the audio cue. They went at it for a second before we separated them. After they'd calmed down a bit and had some petting they both ate a bit more greens and we ended the session 10 minutes after the scuffle with both buns relaxed.

I think we've noticed something as well. Because it's generally Ariel that has her ears back when they greet and she's been squirted quite a few times now, she's learning to be nice most of the time. Miranda on the other hand seems to be trying her luck a bit now  and seems to be her that starts an actual scuffle.

Seems like this process is very much two steps forward, one back... Which is good I guess!

Today we reached a major milestone - they did 20 minutes without incident!

This time we didnt do any stress bonding or forced snuggles and just plopped them down in their bonding area in our bedroom. They groomed themselves a lot! They said hello about 5 times, and each time Miranda had her ears forward and looked very relaxed. I've noticed it's nearly always Miranda that makes goes up to Ariel. Ariel had her ears back a couple of times, but we managed to avoid any kind of nippiness by putting our hands on both their heads and stroking them until one backed away. This seemed to work really well as the bunnies sat there right in each others faces without feeling the need to get nippy.

I still think we've got a long way to go, but we're totally stoked today!

Perhaps Ariel is a bit fearful? Are you noticing who is the more dominant of the pair? It's interesting what you've said about Ariels nipping & consequently wet head. I wonder if there's a subtle snub or move by Miranda that she retaliates to? Is the water spray making her (Ariel) more agitated? If so, try replace it with a vocal warning. But if it's working, she backs of and goes about normal business, she's probably not getting too stressed by it.

Does she allow you to pet her head easily? I'm wondering if you can head of aggression in her with the vocal warning then after a moment, pet her to calm her some. Even pet them both. Just thinking this if her aggression is fear based.

 

Edit: I replied before reading all your last post!  Looks like your sussed them out!  Good to see petting them helps calm things down.  Having a pleasant massage whilst being close to one another should really help build trust.  In time, they will need to negotiate approaching each other independantly without incident, but for now what you're doing will really help I believe.

When you find they are sitting close and grooming themselves or just napping, you could probably start encourage them to groom one another.  I'm not sure if there should always be grooming - did they do this before?  Some pairs may just cohabit without grooming one another.  (btw, haha on reading my bonding thread(s) - what a mess!  There was good advice given by others though, so I hope you find that useful.)

@ jerseygirl: We're not entirely sure which is the dominant one yet. They've both got such different personalities but neither one has shown any signs of dominance over the other. We may have missed something though I guess. And, no - they didnt really groom each other before. Must have a read through your thread again though.

The last 2 sessions have both been 20 minutes long. Today they went for each other as soon as we got into the bonding area. Bad start;  Miranda got a good face-soaking,daddy got frustrated and stressed out and after mummy told him to calm down he gave the two a pep-talk. I think the face-soaking worked on Miranda as she was very good for the rest of the session. They ate loads of hay about 10 inches apart without a problem. We had to use the petting method to calm them down a couple of times but other than that they kept avoiding each other, grooming and eating. I guess it started badly but got better so a win I think.

Haha! I'm writing this on my laptop in our hallway and I have Miranda out here with me. She's just done a lap of the hallway and come up to say hello:

I feel quite disappointed with myself tonight and hope I haven't rushed them too much and caused a bigger set back!

Could it be Miranda wants Ariel to groom her and got annoyed when she didn't, so gave her a "hint"?