BINKYBUNNY FORUMS > DIET & CARE > Lola is at Emergency Vet
Last Post by bmt87 at 11/17/2012 6:43 PM (51 Replies)
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User is Offline bmt87
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11/09/2012 7:01 PM
Sitting in the lobby now. Vibes are really needed.

ETA: Thanks JerseyGirl for linking this from the other thread. 

Here's the "backstory": http://www.binkybunny.com/FORUM/tabid/54/aft/122503/Default.aspx#307719

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User is Offline jerseygirl
Australia
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11/09/2012 7:25 PM
Oh no! {{{{{Lola!}}}}}

Thinking if you.

User is Offline MimzMum
Interior Alaska
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11/09/2012 8:24 PM
Vibes for Lola! (((((((((((Vibes)))))))))))
What happened??
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User is Offline bmt87
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11/09/2012 9:08 PM

Just got home. Lola got subq fluids, meloxicam (metacam) for pain, and metoclopramide (reglan) for motility. She is now on metoclopramide 1mL every 8 hrs and they gave me a little bag of Critical Care - although I wish I would have remembered I had some in the cabinet at home and not paid for it - I was too worried to remember about it.


Long story short - she was fine all day with eating. She had been spending the entire day in her condo - which isn't unusual because that's her space and she is usually there most of the day sleeping. When ~8pm rolled around that's usually her really active time and she was just getting listless - wanted to be on the top shelf of her condo and would just circle the top shelf, flop over, loaf, and then repeat over and over. She poo'ed a couple pearl strings with hair in them so I knew she was backing up. She was also shaking so much she was shaking the entire cage. She wouldn't even touch kale or a treat - and she's NEVER said 'no' to a piece of dried mango. She wouldn't even lap up the baby food mixed with simethicone so I syringe fed her 1mL of it. It didn't help within 30min so we took her. I didn't want to risk it.

We decided not to let her stay over night and I'm hoping that's the right decision - the vet said she thought we caught it early enough that she should be okay but to keep an eye on her. The vet was also a bunny owner so it made me feel A LOT more comfortable that she knew exactly what we were talking about and where we were coming from. As far as the keeping her at home, I figured we know her behavior better than a vet so we could watch her and the emergency vet is literally a 5 minute drive so it would be easy to go back if something went wrong.

There was also another couple in the waiting room with a rabbit going through the same thing - so we regaled our rabbit stories and how it would have been 1000x cheaper to have a dog - but their little faces make up for it!

So - that's that. Here's hoping to an uneventful night with lots of pooping and then veggie eating in the morning....
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User is Offline Monkeybun
Hillsboro, Oregon
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11/09/2012 9:22 PM
Hope she feels better. Vibes heading your way!

You can put the critical care in the freezer to extend its shelf life more. Then you can feel more like it isn't being wasted

User is Offline MimzMum
Interior Alaska
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11/09/2012 9:28 PM
Poor Lola and poor you!
Well if the vet gave you metaclop then likely as not she didn't find a blockage. Were xrays taken?
Deffo keep an eye (I know you will) because they can deteriorate so quickly during stasis episodes.
The fluids should help move things and hydrate her gut. Did the vet show you how to do these? It's a good thing to know how to do yourself just in case (of course you need the equipment too.)
You're on top of things to be sure and that's great that the ER is so close!
Vibes continuing for a full recovery for Lola!
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User is Offline bmt87
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11/09/2012 9:34 PM
I know how to do the subq fluids I just don't have the equipment. Assuming she is okay in the next 48 hours I'm still going to take her to her normal vet just to be sure and ask if I can get some for situations like this --- because I know she isn't near done shedding so I'm guessing this won't be the last time this happens.

And no x-rays yet - we talked about it with the vet and she said if she had to come in again they would do it.

She's just in her cage grooming now which I hate but I don't think there is a way to get her to stop. It's just an obsessive thing right now -- I don't know if there's any way to get her to stop outside of going to get one of those neck cones which I don't know if it's safe or not.....
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User is Offline jerseygirl
Australia
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11/10/2012 1:41 AM
Without a doubt I would have chosen to bring her home also. She should be less stressed in her own environment. You definitely want to minimise stresses when they're not well.

I'm so happy to read you got a bunny loving vet.

More {{{vibes}}}. I hope you have a perky little bunny soon.

User is Offline CinnabunMom
in the TARDIS
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11/10/2012 2:30 AM
((VIBES)) Keep us updated!
chair1-1

User is Offline FrankieFlash
Michigan
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11/10/2012 5:03 AM
((Feel better vibes for Lola))

User is Offline lmais
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11/10/2012 5:46 AM
(((((((vibes for Lola))))))))

User is Offline bmt87
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11/10/2012 10:34 AM
So - I got up extra early this morning because I had a work event I couldn't get out of.  There were poos that looked like this in her cage and this was all of them.  So she went but I wouldn't even count as going...but at least she is passing SOMETHING.



Lola got her first dose of Metoclopramide and I syringe fed Critical Care (hollllly messy mouth!) at about 7am.  She would nibble at greens if I hand fed them to her but only a few pieces...  It took her almost an entire hour to poop some more which is really unusual.  She's usually waiting at her condo door to be let out so she can use her favorite potty box.  I brushed her really well to try to get most of the loose hair out.  She did a few binkies and then we had to leave for 4 hours.  

We just got back and she had another dose of Critical Care.  She seems to be feeling a little better and just looks happier and will actually come out of her cage - but she isn't drinking that much and isn't pooing as much as usual. But at least she is going! 


So that's where it stands.  Still need vibes because we aren't out of the woods yet.

"Mommmm...I no feels good. Make it betterrrr."

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User is Offline Miss Megan
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11/10/2012 11:22 AM
oh i hope she is okay

User is Offline bmt87
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11/10/2012 3:32 PM
Lola hasn't pooped in ~10 hours.  At what point should we get concerned again and take her back to the vet?


She did eat extra watered down greens tonight and when I force fed her some Critical Care I put extra water in it to make sure she was getting some fluids.  She is munching on hay.  And hopping around the room - but just seems to get tired more easily and she has started biting which makes me think she is just really uncomfortable.
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User is Offline james waller
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11/10/2012 3:35 PM
Posted By bmt87 on 11/10/2012 01:34 PM
So - I got up extra early this morning because I had a work event I couldn't get out of.  There were poos that looked like this in her cage and this was all of them.  So she went but I wouldn't even count as going...but at least she is passing SOMETHING.



Lola got her first dose of Metoclopramide and I syringe fed Critical Care (hollllly messy mouth!) at about 7am.  She would nibble at greens if I hand fed them to her but only a few pieces...  It took her almost an entire hour to poop some more which is really unusual.  She's usually waiting at her condo door to be let out so she can use her favorite potty box.  I brushed her really well to try to get most of the loose hair out.  She did a few binkies and then we had to leave for 4 hours.  

We just got back and she had another dose of Critical Care.  She seems to be feeling a little better and just looks happier and will actually come out of her cage - but she isn't drinking that much and isn't pooing as much as usual. But at least she is going! 


So that's where it stands.  Still need vibes because we aren't out of the woods yet.

"Mommmm...I no feels good. Make it betterrrr."


---pictures do tell alot,, it is excellent that the poop box have grasses,ie timothy,/ orchard,--poops have fur in them,thusly called a string of pearls,--and perhaps some distress-dehydration,,?--here is a medical webside which will help to diagnose problems early-  http://www.medirabbit.com  --the reglyn (metroncloprimide)-will cause some bowel contractions--use carefully perhaps with simethicone-(infant)-feel around the gi tract for lumps,bumps,tummy hard.??-watch for any behavioral change,-try to monitor eating of grasses,water--use a scale and weigh every 4 hours if needed--that means a running log for medical history..--sounds like you are doing a fine job,--sincerely james waller

User is Offline CinnabunMom
in the TARDIS
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11/10/2012 3:42 PM
The BB recommendation is that if they haven't pooped in 12 hours, take them to a vet. It's also the weekend, but I think you have an ER nearby? Yes? Eating though is a good sign, it's when they stop eating that it's time to be VERY concerned. Have you given any more simethicone? ((BIG VIBES))
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User is Offline bmt87
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11/10/2012 3:47 PM
Yes she went to the emergency vet last night at about 9pm. So this is about the time last night and the night before when things went down hill too.... She went last night because she stopped eating...which is why right now I'm like "welllll, you are eating....but please, please, please poop. please."

Haven't given any more simethicone - I didn't know if i could give it with the reglan?
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User is Offline CinnabunMom
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11/10/2012 3:52 PM
Sorry, I don't know the answer to that one. Have you tried tummy massages? Get her moving? Even if it's just some hops around the room?
chair1-1

User is Offline bmt87
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11/10/2012 4:18 PM
Yep - getting tummy massages and we keep trying to get her to hop around which is why she is biting....she doesn't like when she doesn't have clear access to her cage and I've been sitting in her way to encourage her to stay out and hop around.
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User is Offline tanlover14
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11/10/2012 4:18 PM
Oh god, that little Lola face. Healing vibes for your gorgeous girl! <3
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User is Offline bmt87
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11/10/2012 4:40 PM
We have poops! 9 of them! 11 hours later...
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User is Offline tanlover14
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11/10/2012 4:58 PM
Yay for poops! All of us bunny owners sure do know the joys of seeing poop!
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User is Offline jerseygirl
Australia
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11/10/2012 6:51 PM
She probably wasn't drinking because she had subQ fluids.
Glad you're seeing output again. The delay *may* have been purely because food she had eaten since treatment hadn't made its passage thru the digestive tract yet. The fact she was eating was (and is) great.

User is Offline LittlePuffyTail
New Brunswick, Canada
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11/11/2012 3:24 AM
Yay for poops!!!!!

How is Lola today? (((((Lola))))
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User is Offline bmt87
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11/11/2012 8:31 AM
Lola is doing MUCH better this morning and I am hoping it lasts the entire day --- around 8pm is when she has gone down hill the past few days.

She ate all her greens (~1.5 cups of mix kale, parsley, dandelion, and cilantro) and pooped all over her cage this morning! Still not as much as normal - but it's a start! My boyfriend's brother and his friends stayed last night so at first I was worried that it would stress her out but it ultimately being really good for her...their stuff lying around everywhere gave her a reason to hop around and explore. She was too nosy to stay in her cage and wanted to hop all over their stuff and sniff them so I think the hopping around helped. She also got another good brushing this morning.

Fingers crossed!
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User is Offline LittlePuffyTail
New Brunswick, Canada
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11/11/2012 12:01 PM
Glad to hear it!!! (((((More Get Well Vibes)))))
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User is Offline bmt87
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11/11/2012 5:07 PM

So on top of all this - I noticed when Lola was laying on her belly that she is also developing sore hocks.... 

I can't make this stuff up....  

I don't know what's going on and feel like we've done something so wrong.  She has a perfect diet that's completely by HRS guidelines and a completely carpeted and cushy cage. She isn't overweight - 5.2 lbs.  She's never on hard surfaces except when she is laying on her belly on the bottom of our bookshelf....

I just want to cry.  This is making me feel like an awful bunny parent.

You can see in the picture that the pink skin is showing.  It's not broken open yet....

Advice? Suggestions? Could it be because she is shedding?  Or because she has been sitting in the "loaf" position for almost 4 days straight because of the Stasis?

On the brightside we just had another fresh batch of relatively normal looking bunny poos.... 

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User is Offline jerseygirl
Australia
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11/11/2012 5:34 PM
Yay for poo!

Her feet actually look normal to me. If its a healthy pink and just looks like a callous then I think that's normal IMO. Some buns have that. Not a bad idea to keep a check on it from time to time.

User is Offline StarryMoon544
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11/11/2012 6:50 PM
Oh no! I'm so sorry you and Lola are going through this, sending good vibes!

User is Offline james waller
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11/11/2012 8:18 PM
Posted By bmt87 on 11/11/2012 08:07 PM

So on top of all this - I noticed when Lola was laying on her belly that she is also developing sore hocks.... 

I can't make this stuff up....  

I don't know what's going on and feel like we've done something so wrong.  She has a perfect diet that's completely by HRS guidelines and a completely carpeted and cushy cage. She isn't overweight - 5.2 lbs.  She's never on hard surfaces except when she is laying on her belly on the bottom of our bookshelf....

I just want to cry.  This is making me feel like an awful bunny parent.

You can see in the picture that the pink skin is showing.  It's not broken open yet....

Advice? Suggestions? Could it be because she is shedding?  Or because she has been sitting in the "loaf" position for almost 4 days straight because of the Stasis?

On the brightside we just had another fresh batch of relatively normal looking bunny poos.... 


---yes,--the fur is worn down,--start monitoring her weight--this pink spot-(hock)- may get worse depending on weight,or hard running surface,--here is the webite fr becoming a poopologist  http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/sickbun.html  --sincerely james waller

User is Offline LittlePuffyTail
New Brunswick, Canada
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11/12/2012 1:30 AM
I can relate with how you are feeling. My buns get the absolute best care/diet possible but they still have loads of health problems. Seems like I'm always at the vet with one or the other.

Lola's feet look fine to me. Hard, pink callouses are normal. It's important to check the callouses once a week to make sure they are not getting red/swollen/sore. Also, be sure to keep her back nails clipped short. What sort of flooring does she have?
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User is Offline bmt87
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11/12/2012 7:16 AM
Haha LPT - I'm like --- "seriously....you eat better than I do small little fluffy thing...."

They aren't hard callouses yet and they just appeared in less than 48 hours. They definitely weren't there when I took her to the emergency vet on Friday night.

Her nails are a little longer than usual because they were supposed to be trimmed when she was sick and I didn't want to stress her out more. And those fluffy, pampered feet are on plush carpet all day long except when they are in her carefresh bedding lined litter box. So....I'm not sure. It does look like she is loosing little tufts of hair on her feet and I thought maybe it was just the excessive shedding and grooming.

In any case, I just called her normal vet and scheduled a follow-up appointment for tomorrow. I figured if we've already paid a couple hundred dollars in vet bills a $40 check-up is a drop in the bucket to make sure everything else is ok at this point.

Sigh. Now I just have to tell her that Santa is paying the vet bills this year instead of bringing new toys....
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User is Offline bmt87
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11/12/2012 7:21 AM
Also - does anyone have any suggestions on what I should ask the vet tomorrow after the GI Stasis scare and the hocks?

SO far I have:

-Can I have a prescription for the SubQ fluids so I have them on hand in case this happens again?
-Can reglan be mixed with simethicone if during another stasis incident she is looking and feeling really uncomfortable?
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User is Offline Sarita
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11/12/2012 8:01 AM
Did the emergency vet do an x-ray? Did they think she had a blockage?

I don't usually mix reglan with simethicone myself, I suppose you could but not sure what could it can do in the case of a blockage and the reglan and/or cisapride would be to get her gut moving. My vet has always said that the gas is the result of the blockage so it's really a secondary symptom I guess...of course I'm not a big fan of simethicone but many people swear by it.

In the case of a blockage then administering sub-q's at home is a great idea - I just hang my sub-q bag on a hanger and do the sub-q's in the bathroom. If you know how to do this, then yes it can be a good idea as long as your vet gives the okay.

I guess the bottom line is to know what the cause of the stasis was. Although it can many times seem to be a mystery which is quite frustrating.

User is Offline Sarita
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11/12/2012 8:04 AM
Just rereading Dana Krempel's article on GI Stasis and she says simethicone has no known drug interactions.

User is Offline bmt87
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11/12/2012 8:55 AM
Posted By Sarita on 11/12/2012 11:01 AM
Did the emergency vet do an x-ray? Did they think she had a blockage?

They didn't do an x-ray. That was the second course of action if the problem was still re-occuring after 48 hours....and so far we've almost had 36 straight hours without tummy troubles. I really think it's due to her shedding and she is trying really hard to pass it.  
I will definitely ask her vet about it though!  I want to go in with a list so that was helpful! 

And the simethicone info was helpful!  That was all stuff that I didn't think to ask the ER vet so I will definitely read that article to see what else it says.

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User is Offline MimzMum
Interior Alaska
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11/12/2012 12:05 PM
Just getting back in here today and kind of skimmed through posts.... Wanted to ask if Lola always has kale? That veg gives mine gas everytime they have it and they won't pass poos for several hours and/or until I administer simethicone.

Fiver had beautiful heels one day and sore hocks the next. He has beautiful soft bedding and I change his litter twice a day. His fur is such that it was easy to wear it away. But if you can keep her heels dry and clean (has anyone mentioned bag balm for rough spots?) they shouldn't become worse. Sometimes bunnies are just prone to these things, it's no reflection on your abilities.
I think you're doing an ace job! (((((((Hugs)))))) I hope Lola continues to improve and you both get a break from troubles. Sounds like you two could both use a good snuggle and some playtime together.
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User is Offline james waller
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11/12/2012 3:32 PM
Posted By bmt87 on 11/12/2012 11:55 AM
Posted By Sarita on 11/12/2012 11:01 AM
Did the emergency vet do an x-ray? Did they think she had a blockage?

They didn't do an x-ray. That was the second course of action if the problem was still re-occuring after 48 hours....and so far we've almost had 36 straight hours without tummy troubles. I really think it's due to her shedding and she is trying really hard to pass it.  
I will definitely ask her vet about it though!  I want to go in with a list so that was helpful! 

And the simethicone info was helpful!  That was all stuff that I didn't think to ask the ER vet so I will definitely read that article to see what else it says.

--no radiograghs..??-well,does her tummy feel doughy--this is good//,,shedding -requires lots of grasses,water--to break up and pass--remember rabbits cannot throw up-like a cat/furball,--anything that is chewed up and swallowed must go all the way through--please check out this website for details  http://www.medirabbit.com  --sincerely james waller


User is Offline TBpony414
Washington, DC
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11/12/2012 6:24 PM
Her hocks look perfectly normal to me. Domesticated rabbits often have fur missing on their hocks and it's just from hopping around on carpet (which is sort of abrasive on their tiny bunny feet) and living a normal life. Once they develop a callous like that the fur won't grow back which is fine, just keep an eye on it.

Regarding simethicone: in an emergency, it can be given every 2 hours and does not interfere with any drugs whatsoever. I give it twice a day since my guy is chronically gassy. At the first sign of an upset tummy I go ahead and give extra simethicone and start belly rubs - better to be safe than sorry.

Hope Lola continues to improve. Post more pictures of her when you can, she is really a cutie! If you're able to, having SubQ fluids on hand at home to give is always a good thing. How many pounds is Lola? My boy is 3 lbs. and he gets 60cc of fluids when he's sick. Fluids help with hydration as well as gut motility.

User is Offline LittlePuffyTail
New Brunswick, Canada
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11/13/2012 1:29 AM
Good luck at the vet!
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User is Offline bmt87
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11/13/2012 8:04 AM
Posted By MimzMum on 11/12/2012 03:05 PM
Wanted to ask if Lola always has kale? That veg gives mine gas everytime they have it and they won't pass poos for several hours and/or until I administer simethicone.

She does normally have kale - I didn't start giving it to her until after she started getting sick because it's one of her favorites and one of the few things she can't resist.  I actually thought this might have been brought on by a combination of the shedding and that I had just introduced mustard greens which she had never had before.... So... who knows!

TBPony - that was all really great info.  I am still going to take her to the vet regarding the sores/callouses since they are new and since I've already spent so much money I'd rather just spend another $40 to make sure *everything* is ok...but the fact that other house rabbits get them regularly makes me feel a lot better.  And thanks for the simethicone info, that seems to be the same info that I read in the article Sarita posted but it's comforting to know that someone else has some first-hand experience with it.

Her vet appointment is at 4:30 tonight... Fingers-crossed I have a healthy Lola bunny!

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User is Offline TBpony414
Washington, DC
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11/13/2012 8:18 PM
I'm glad my information was helpful to you. How did Lola's vet appointment today go? Also I wanted to add that in my experience (only 2 rabbits, but still) kale has caused severe gas episodes in both bunnies so about 3 years ago I stopped feeding it completely.

User is Offline Sarita
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11/14/2012 12:26 AM
I've never ever had a problem with kale.

User is Offline tanlover14
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11/14/2012 6:24 AM
Kale has never caused any tummy issues with my 3 little ones either -- although my vet did advise making sure kale is only 1/3 of their 3 cups of daily veggies.
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User is Offline bmt87
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11/14/2012 9:17 AM
The kale is probably about 1/5 of what she eats everyday - and she gets a pretty generous mix of things on a regular basis - right now it's kale, cilantro, parsley, red leaf lettuce, dandelion, and carrot tops...so I don't *think* it's the kale but it's something i'll keep in mind.

The vet said Lola looked good. The visit made me feel a little better but at the same time I felt like there were still some unanswered questions. The vet said she didn't recommend keeping SubQ fluids on hand - which I didn't like but I didn't want to argue with her either. She said it was best just to force feed at the first signs of stasis and that baby food carrot was a good thing to keep on hand. So...I don't know. I'd rather be safe than sorry but you can't force a doctor to give you medications either....

She said simethicone had no drug interactions so that seems to be reaffirmed from the info we all found digging around in papers online.

I also asked her about pineapple juice to break up all the hair in her tummy and she advised against it and said that it was something that people used to do but no so much now....

She also said not to limit pellets and keep her diet the same when she is going through stasis which is different than everything I've read....

SO - sorry that's random info but I just wanted to relay what happened. Lola seems to be feeling a lot better and I reintroduced some pellets into her diet today so we shall see how that goes. She's been of the Reglan for 24 hours now and seems to be handling it ok. Through this whole experience she has been a lot more cuddly - even when we were at the vets she kept trying to stand up on the exam table and put her little paws on my shoulder and would snuggle next to me - I think she actually understands that she was sick and we were trying to help her and that she is safe next to us...animals really amaze me sometimes.
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User is Offline Kokaneeandkahlua
Edmonton, Alberta; Canada
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11/14/2012 6:00 PM
Glad she's on the mend!!!

If you desire, you can purchase everything you need for sub-q at a medical supply store -if you want to stock anyways. If you're not comfortable giving it though, then your vet is right and critical care is the way to go.
I think your vet is right about the pineapple. It might be a nice benefit of a fresh slice of pineapple, i.e. that it might have enzymes that are helpful for digestion and that it's a tasty treat...but it's definitely not a treatment.

She also said not to limit pellets and keep her diet the same when she is going through stasis which is different than everything I've read....
This sounds correct, but I may be misreading your statement-what part is the opposite of what you've read?
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User is Offline LittlePuffyTail
New Brunswick, Canada
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11/15/2012 12:34 AM
I'm glad Lola is still feeling better.

While I def think sub Q fluids are helpful, I can sort of see the side of your vet. You don't want to use them unless necessary. It's very stressful for bunnies.

even when we were at the vets she kept trying to stand up on the exam table and put her little paws on my shoulder and would snuggle next to me
Olivia does this. I think it's her telling me to pick her up and get her the heck out of there. She hates being picked up any other time.
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User is Offline bmt87
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11/15/2012 7:14 AM
About the pellets - I had just read on this forum to reduce the amounts of pellets when they are going through Stasis to encourage them t eat more of the green wet veggies and more hay to get things moving. I think someone may have even suggested it on this thread too or the previous one I posted but I could be wrong. It made sense but I can also see how switching up their routine could be confusing.

And the SubQ fluids - I know how to do it so I may go out and buy them BUT I can see myself being so concerned anyways if she goes through this again that I would just rather take her to the vet. I would definitely err on the side of caution and not want to risk her not getting the help she needs.

Thanks for all the help guys!
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User is Offline LittlePuffyTail
New Brunswick, Canada
Forum Leader
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11/15/2012 9:16 AM
I think I mentioned about limiting the pellets. I always reduce the pellets during and right after stasis as my vet seems to think that a lot of pellets can cause GI problems. But it's best to listen to your vet, if you trust him/her. They know your bunny best.
Proud to be a Bunny Hugger and a voice for the voiceless
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User is Offline tanlover14
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11/16/2012 6:59 PM
^ Agreed. On the Boon post, my vet said with buns in stasis and who have a history of it to limit pellets for sure.
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User is Offline MimzMum
Interior Alaska
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11/16/2012 11:11 PM
Glad to hear Lola has a clean bill of health!
I suppose if a bun is going into stasis you'd want to keep up pellets if that's what they'll eat...I was thinking if she was feeling better consistently you might want to reduce them then, gradually. Always take the advice of your vet who knows bunny best.
I think chronic illness definitely causes our buns to get more touchy-feelie. They just get much closer to us when daily meds and handling occur. Mimzy and I are much closer now than we were before he got head tilt. (And he's more demanding too!)

Continued healthy Lola vibes! She's a beauty!
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User is Offline bmt87
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11/17/2012 6:43 PM
Even though my vet said to not change it, I can definitely see where limiting it could help and force them to eat more hay. It's something I'll keep in mind.

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