BINKYBUNNY FORUMS > DIET & CARE > Carbun acting strangely and refusing some food
Last Post by LittlePuffyTail at 11/01/2012 2:19 AM (45 Replies)
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User is Offline ScooterandAnnette
Winnipeg, Canada
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8/04/2012 5:29 AM

Hi everyone:

 

Carbun may be sick.  He didn't seem to be too interested in their dinner pellets last night, although he did take raisins and parsley offered to him.  He is grinding his teeth a bit, and seems to be breathing harder--it's much more noticeable across his body.  He also seems more listless and holding his head up a lot more than normal.  And this morning, he wouldn't eat his slice of breakfast banana, although he'll still happily take raisins.

 

Our normal vet is open Saturdays but not today, as it's the start of a long weekend up here.  However, we have an appointment with another rabbit-savvy vet on the other side of town for early afternoon.  Given Bailey's loss three weeks ago, we're more on the edge than we normally would be.

 

Any thoughts, or suggestions for what we can do until we can see the vet?  He is out right now and is acting more or less normally, although he's holding his head up more than normal and is still not interested in his banana.

Pet Parents to: Aeryn, Tegan, Keelie, and Kiera (bunnies); Harley, Sierra, Ringo and Owen (cats); Dakota (dog). We miss our Rainbow Bunnies: Keiran, Kylie, Reno, Carbun, Kaylee and our boy Bailey.

User is Offline Sarita
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8/04/2012 8:31 AM
Vibes for Carbun, please let us know what the vet says.

It's so hard to know what could be wrong because at this point it may be anything. Does make me wonder though about teeth or nasal problems.

User is Offline RabbitPam
South Florida
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8/04/2012 8:49 AM
Yes, I'm wondering if it is respiratory at all. I wouldn't push the banana. Is he interested in hay at all? How are his poos? I think you can just wait to see what the vet today says.
{{{{{{{{{{{{{Healing vibes, Carbun}}}}}}}}}}}}}
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User is Offline TH004
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8/04/2012 11:24 AM
(((Healing vibes)))

I'm sorry! I'm not sure either. I'm curious as to what it is.

User is Offline ScooterandAnnette
Winnipeg, Canada
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8/04/2012 12:04 PM
Annette here. It looks like it's basically congestive heart failure. I'll post a pic of his Xray in a little bit. It showed that his heart is enlarged and there was a lot of fluid in paricularly his left lung, which resulted in there being very little space for his windpipe and as such was having to work quite hard just to breath. They gave him a shot of what I'm guessing was furosemide (he's got 2 meds but I think that's the one she gave him then) to try and relieve the pressure and then had us stay there for a while so they could check on him. His breathing and heartrate came down to pretty much normal and he was much perkier. So now we've got some of that to give him 2-3 times a day, and some vetmedin, and he goes back in on Tuesday to be poked and prodded and Xrayed again.

Long term prognosis of course isn't good, there's no cure for congestive heart failure, but we can hopefully keep it under control and help him have a longer and happier life. We just have to see how he does through the weekend.
- Annette
Pet Parents to: Aeryn, Tegan, Keelie, and Kiera (bunnies); Harley, Sierra, Ringo and Owen (cats); Dakota (dog). We miss our Rainbow Bunnies: Keiran, Kylie, Reno, Carbun, Kaylee and our boy Bailey.

User is Offline Sarita
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8/04/2012 1:09 PM
Oh Annette & Scooter - I'm so sorry to hear this - it is unfortunately not a good prognosis and I'm sad to hear this. It does make sense what you say about him holding his head up - he is trying to breathe. I'm sad to say I've been through this a few times with my own rabbits and with some friend's rabbits and I hope that you can give him so relief. I am under the impression after dealing with this so many times that it just seems to be typical for our sweet rabbits.

I'm guessing fuorsemide is Lasix - is that correct? I do know of a guinea pig who has been on this long term and I do know of some rabbits that this has been used on. I understand he will urinate quite a bit with this particular drug.

I think you may find that he is going to tire so very easily as you can expect.

Please keep us updated on his progress - I truly believe that heart failure seems to be very common in rabbits since I've seen it too many times and it's quite difficult to catch. I think because our rabbits, unlike dogs, are usually pretty relaxed and slow going compared to dogs. At least this is what my vets have all told me concering heart problems with rabbits.

User is Offline TH004
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8/04/2012 11:31 PM
I'm so sorry!! Hugs and prayers your way!

I don't know anything about that in rabbits. My grandma's cat did have the same thing-- The cat still outlived grandma and is still going, thanks to meds. She is very happy, albeit tired and takes naps-- not sure how much of that is just being a cat

User is Offline LittlePuffyTail
New Brunswick, Canada
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8/05/2012 3:44 AM
I'm so very sorry to hear about Carbun.

Many thoughts and prayers being sent your way. (((((Carbun))))))
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User is Offline jerseygirl
Australia
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8/05/2012 9:41 PM
Im so sorry to hear this about little Carbun. Many {{{vibes}}} coming your way.

I suppose having a diagnosis and plan to manage is better then not knowing at all, so I hope you are able to keep him comfortable on this regime.

Is congestive heart failure age related?
Whoever says "It's only a rabbit" has obviously never loved a rabbit.

User is Offline RabbitPam
South Florida
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8/06/2012 5:08 AM
I'm just getting back to BB today and am so sorry to read about Carbun's diagnosis. You guys are going through such a tough time with your bunnies this year. I agree with the others that having a treatment for him and a proper diagnosis means he will have some relief and a good quality of life with you. It's very upsetting though.
{{{{{{{{{{{Healing vibes, Carbun}}}}}}}}}}}}
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User is Offline ScooterandAnnette
Winnipeg, Canada
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8/09/2012 5:23 PM

Sorry to be so long updating!   Thank you all for your positive vibes and wishes, I'm sure it's helping!  Sarita, yes it's Lasix - sorry I couldn't remember the name of it and it's just got the other on the label.   And yes it is good to know what's going on so we can try and keep it under control, and I'm so glad that we caught it at this point!

We took him back in on Tuesday for a checkover and to have more Xrays taken.  His heart rate was down from the weekend (although still higher than she'd like) and his Xray looked a lot better and the fluid seems to have cleared up.  So we've gone from giving him .5 of the diuretic  3x a day to 2x a day, and then in 2 weeks it drops down to .3 2x a day.  And the Lasix twice a day from now on.

Here's his Xray from Saturday.  You can see on the right there's a dark area - that the air that's supposed to be there.  There should be a similar area on the left and there's just not.  Or rather wasn't, there is now thanks to the meds.  And they managed to screw up the last name

 

Annette

Pet Parents to: Aeryn, Tegan, Keelie, and Kiera (bunnies); Harley, Sierra, Ringo and Owen (cats); Dakota (dog). We miss our Rainbow Bunnies: Keiran, Kylie, Reno, Carbun, Kaylee and our boy Bailey.

User is Offline LittlePuffyTail
New Brunswick, Canada
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8/10/2012 2:26 AM
I'm glad he seems to be responding to the meds. ((((((Health Vibes for Carbun)))))))

Thanks for showing the Xray pics. I find them so interesting.
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User is Offline Sarita
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8/10/2012 3:30 AM
That's great he is responding to the meds! Thanks so much for the update.

I think heart problems are more prevalent in rabbits than we think. I've had a few rabbits and known of a few rabbits who had enlarged hearts. My first rabbit Bunbun had endocardiosis - which we did not know until he passed and we did a necropsy.

I don't think it's something that comes to mind right away as more people are familiar with dental problems or gut problems.

More vibes to Carbun.

User is Offline Kokaneeandkahlua
Edmonton, Alberta; Canada
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8/10/2012 7:00 PM
I'm so sorry Annette and Scooter!!

I think your really keen to have caught on so quickly, when I read the initial post it seems his symptoms were so mild! Very astute to know something was up, and just in the nick of time too!

The xray is really neat, thanks for posting.

I'm sending lots of {{Vibes}} your way and thinking about all of you. I may have missed it-is the Lasix oral? Is he being good taking his meds? {{Vibes}} *hugs*
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User is Offline MimzMum
Interior Alaska
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8/10/2012 9:04 PM
Omg...I'm just seeing this! :'(
I'm so sorry little Carbun is having such problems. But glad to hear it can be managed.
Vibes for Carbun and you.
This has been a terrible year for our bunnies.
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User is Offline ScooterandAnnette
Winnipeg, Canada
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8/11/2012 6:39 AM
Thank you all for your kind words and thoughts. Carbun is responding well to his medicines. He quite likes them, as they come in strawberry flavored syrup and taste good. This is a good thing, since he will be on them for the rest of his life. Fortunately, these particular drugs are fairly cheap. He also loves them because he gets a raisin after each one. The other bunnies love it too, because they know the sound of the raisin box being opened and will demand their share. Tegan in particular will stand up from the top shelf of their condo and stick her head out of it to beg.

Carbun is also eating, and hopping about and more or less acting normally, although both are somewhat less than before. We are keeping a close eye on how much he eats and on his activities. He goes back to the new vet in about a month for a checkup. We've decided to stick with this vet for Carbun, rather than attempt to transfer everything over to our normal vet, since the transfer would be too much trouble and they're already familiar with his case.
Pet Parents to: Aeryn, Tegan, Keelie, and Kiera (bunnies); Harley, Sierra, Ringo and Owen (cats); Dakota (dog). We miss our Rainbow Bunnies: Keiran, Kylie, Reno, Carbun, Kaylee and our boy Bailey.

User is Offline RabbitPam
South Florida
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8/11/2012 10:57 AM
It sounds like this is a very good vet for Carbun anyway, since you got such an accurate diagnosis and caught it early. That xray is really interesting, and I can see why there was cause for concern from it.

Don't tell us the correct last name, since we don't allow member's names posted for your protection. Sort of convenient that they messed it up.

{{{{{{{Hugs to Carbun and raisins to the gang}}}}}}}}}}}
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User is Offline Sarita
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8/11/2012 2:30 PM
I'm so happy he's doing well. I totally understand wanting to keep this vet - that is what I would do as well.

Continued vibes to Carbun.

User is Offline ScooterandAnnette
Winnipeg, Canada
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8/21/2012 12:50 PM
So Carbun appears to have returned back to normal in terms of behavior. He is occasionally refusing the raisins offered after his medicines. Not because he won't eat them, because he'll happily have them a little later. More because he's a total little brat and is "protesting" being picked up and fed his medicine. He'll sometimes give us a hard time with actually giving him the medicines, even though it tastes good, for apparently the same reason.
Pet Parents to: Aeryn, Tegan, Keelie, and Kiera (bunnies); Harley, Sierra, Ringo and Owen (cats); Dakota (dog). We miss our Rainbow Bunnies: Keiran, Kylie, Reno, Carbun, Kaylee and our boy Bailey.

User is Offline TH004
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8/21/2012 1:06 PM
Yay!! The meds must be working well, especially if he feels up to protesting. Thanks for the update!! Continued vibes for Carbun!

User is Offline Sarita
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8/21/2012 1:59 PM
That's wonderful. Continued vibes to Carbun.

User is Offline Kokaneeandkahlua
Edmonton, Alberta; Canada
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8/21/2012 7:34 PM
lol how cute! That's Kahlua too, she will not take an appeasement treat ever lol I'm so glad to hear it, because if your getting the rabbitude, things are looking good
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User is Offline LittlePuffyTail
New Brunswick, Canada
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8/22/2012 1:58 AM
Rabbitude is good! Keep it up, Carbun!!!!

ps. Would love to see some pics of Carbun.
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User is Offline RabbitPam
South Florida
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8/22/2012 5:21 AM
Glad to hear he's doing better.

I know I'm in the dog house when my bunny refuses the treat - especially banana. She lays on the guilt.
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User is Offline ScooterandAnnette
Winnipeg, Canada
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8/26/2012 7:02 PM

Some Carbun pictures as requested:

 

 

Carbun enjoying lunch.  Taken a few years ago.

 

 

Carbun and Keelie cuddled up together in their condo.  Aeryn is in the background in the other condo, and Tegan's in the other condo on the floor above.

 A close-up of Keelie and Carbun.  Yes, they've bonded!  Keelie still hates everyone and everybunny else, though.

 

Pet Parents to: Aeryn, Tegan, Keelie, and Kiera (bunnies); Harley, Sierra, Ringo and Owen (cats); Dakota (dog). We miss our Rainbow Bunnies: Keiran, Kylie, Reno, Carbun, Kaylee and our boy Bailey.

User is Offline LittlePuffyTail
New Brunswick, Canada
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8/27/2012 1:37 AM
OMG, I forgot how tiny and cute he is!!!! That little face! Keelie is gorgeous too. Thanks for the pics.
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User is Offline Sarita
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8/27/2012 3:56 AM
He's adorable!

User is Offline ScooterandAnnette
Winnipeg, Canada
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10/13/2012 8:08 PM
Well, the medications are still holding after 2 1/2 months, but Carbun's condition is slowly starting to deteriorate. Since he was diagnosed with congestive heart failure, he is nowhere as active as he used to be. This is not surprising. He did get an eye infection a couple of weeks ago, so we took him to the vet and he got something to deal with that. The infection's gone now, but he's holding his head up more and more, and it's clear his breathing is more labored.

The vet has said that she can check on him, and maybe recommend upping the medication dose as needed. This has already happened once. We dropped his dose down a few weeks after he was first diagnosed, but then he started having breathing problems, and his dose is back to the original level. However, it's also clear that there's a limit to how much medication he can take. On the short term, we're not sure if he needs to go to the vet soon, and there's nothing we can do until Monday anyway.

He is still eating, although maybe not as enthusiastically all the time as before. He still has some room for raisins and craisins, and still loves getting his head rubbed. But it's also clear that he's on borrowed time, and that may be starting to run out.
Pet Parents to: Aeryn, Tegan, Keelie, and Kiera (bunnies); Harley, Sierra, Ringo and Owen (cats); Dakota (dog). We miss our Rainbow Bunnies: Keiran, Kylie, Reno, Carbun, Kaylee and our boy Bailey.

User is Offline MimzMum
Interior Alaska
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10/14/2012 12:45 AM
I'm sorry to hear these developments.
I wish I could do more but for the moment some (((((((((((((easy breathing and enjoying life))))))))))) vibes are coming your way.

I hope there is more to be done to keep Carbun comfy, but he is a wonderful little bun and has the best mum and dad looking out for him.
((((((((((((((((Huge hugs))))))))))))))) for you.
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User is Offline bunnygirl
Western Australia
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10/14/2012 1:28 AM
I'm so sorry about Carbun! I can't imagine how horrible it must be for you, uncertain of how long he's going to live. We are always here for you ScooterandAnnette, feel free to message me, hugs to you, a big kiss and a cuddle to Carbun. He has the best momma, he loves you and knows your doing your best to care for him, he's a fighter. God bless x
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User is Offline LittlePuffyTail
New Brunswick, Canada
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10/14/2012 3:58 AM
I'm sorry that things seem so bad right now. I know there is nothing worse than knowing the time is soon. He definitely seems like a little trooper so he may turn around. He is certainly a lucky bun to have such wonderful, caring parents.

(((((Carbun))))))
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User is Offline Sarita
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10/14/2012 5:13 AM
Thank you for the update on Carbun. It's a difficult disease to manage in rabbits I understand - continued vibes to Carbun.

User is Offline ScooterandAnnette
Winnipeg, Canada
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10/15/2012 6:25 PM
Took Carbun to the vet today and his meds are now increased. One is the same dose but every 8 hours, the other is still every 12 hours but a higher dosage. That should be fun to coordinate. She couldn't even hear his heart through all the congestion again. She also said that on the one hand she wants to say that it's not a good sign that we've had to increase his meds so soon, but on the other hand there's not really a whole lot of research/documentation on congestive heart failure in bunnies so she's not really sure. With a cat it would be considered soon for upping the meds, but possibly not for a rabbit. She did say that the higher dosage will be harder on his kidneys, but on the other hand if he can't breathe then that's not exactly doing him a whole lot of good either. So we'll see how he does with that!
Oh and the vet tech was sqeeing over his cute little ears
- Annette
Pet Parents to: Aeryn, Tegan, Keelie, and Kiera (bunnies); Harley, Sierra, Ringo and Owen (cats); Dakota (dog). We miss our Rainbow Bunnies: Keiran, Kylie, Reno, Carbun, Kaylee and our boy Bailey.

User is Offline jerseygirl
Australia
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10/15/2012 7:33 PM
They are very squee-able. All if him is!

{{{Carbun}}} <3

Is there anyway they can physically drain the fluid?
Whoever says "It's only a rabbit" has obviously never loved a rabbit.

User is Offline LittlePuffyTail
New Brunswick, Canada
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10/16/2012 2:17 AM
Hoping the increased meds will help him. ((((Carbun))))) I can relate to the difficulties of trying to coordinate meds. When Stormy and Bindi were sick my kitchen looked like a bunny hospital and I had to keep a notebook to log in all the meds. Frustrating indeed, but they are worth every bit of it.
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User is Offline Sarita
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10/16/2012 3:38 AM
He does have cute little ears.

I can understand why there isn't much information on heart disease in rabbits - I think it's just not caught very quickly - you are much more observant than most people so you were lucky to catch it so soon.

Continued vibes and please keep us updated.

User is Offline Kokaneeandkahlua
Edmonton, Alberta; Canada
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10/16/2012 6:07 AM
I hope the increase helps!! {{Carbun}}
Ditto LPT-coordinating meds is hard work! I often print off a schedule so that I can check it off as I go; because my memory is fantastic but very short so I'm often wondering if I already gave this med or not....so I type up a schedule for each day with times and meds listed and it's really kept me sane (or helped to) with those round the clock med schedules!
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User is Offline ScooterandAnnette
Winnipeg, Canada
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10/17/2012 4:32 AM
Scooter here. Carbun is reacting well to the increased dosage, and is basically back to his old self. He is demanding head-rubs all the time, and standing up after he gets his meds to beg for raisins. It is good to see. We don't know when this current dosage will become ineffective, or if something else will rise up to cause problems. This has already happened: the vet has noticed a few weeks ago that his pupil response isn't quite right, but has judged that's not worth investigating. Carbun's got much bigger problems. But we will give him what we can, for as long as we can, and enjoy his remaining time he has with us, however many or few days those may be.
Pet Parents to: Aeryn, Tegan, Keelie, and Kiera (bunnies); Harley, Sierra, Ringo and Owen (cats); Dakota (dog). We miss our Rainbow Bunnies: Keiran, Kylie, Reno, Carbun, Kaylee and our boy Bailey.

User is Offline Sarita
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10/17/2012 6:56 AM
Thank you for the update Scooter. Glad Carbun is reacting well to the increased dosage.

User is Offline tanlover14
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10/17/2012 8:39 AM
I just began reading this post -- my heart goes out to you guys and Carbun. Sending lots of healing vibes his way. <3

Keep us all updated on how he's doing.
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User is Offline Kokaneeandkahlua
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10/19/2012 4:30 PM
Awww thanks for the update Scooter!! Glad to hear he is excited about raisins Best regards to you all and please keep us updated! {{Carbun}}
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User is Offline ScooterandAnnette
Winnipeg, Canada
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10/31/2012 5:09 AM
Although Carbun's been holding out on us for better treats (see thread in the Lounge forum), we are concerned. His weight is down from several weeks ago, he's definitely missing a few cecotrophs given the ones smashed to a pulp in his cage, and he's eating less food. Last night, he put himself to bed after being in the dining room, but stayed on the 1st floor of his cage until Annette noticed him there early this morning and moved him to the 3rd floor, which is what he normally likes. And he only ate a few bites of his breakfast banana slice this morning.

That having been said, he's eating pellets from the leftovers of last night's supper right now. However, that may simply be because he didn't or couldn't hop up to the 3rd floor last night. He's had a track record of being very stubborn, for example when he nearly killed himself a year ago because he didn't realize that food and water were accidentally placed one level above him. But we'll have to keep a closer eye on him.

The good news, though, is that he's definitely eating right now with his usual gusto. I'm not sure what else we can do, but keep an eye on him and hope he'll hold out for longer than we fear.
Pet Parents to: Aeryn, Tegan, Keelie, and Kiera (bunnies); Harley, Sierra, Ringo and Owen (cats); Dakota (dog). We miss our Rainbow Bunnies: Keiran, Kylie, Reno, Carbun, Kaylee and our boy Bailey.

User is Offline jerseygirl
Australia
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10/31/2012 8:12 AM
{{{Carbun}}}
Whoever says "It's only a rabbit" has obviously never loved a rabbit.

User is Offline tanlover14
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10/31/2012 8:15 AM
Sending more vibes to Carbun! <3 <3 Keep us updated! Keep strong baby Carbun!
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User is Offline Sarita
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10/31/2012 10:10 AM
Thank you for the update and continued vibes to Carbun.

User is Offline LittlePuffyTail
New Brunswick, Canada
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11/01/2012 2:19 AM
(((((((Carbun))))))) I"m thinking about you little buddy.
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BINKYBUNNY FORUMS > DIET & CARE > Carbun acting strangely and refusing some food

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