BINKYBUNNY FORUMS > DIET & CARE > Bun in GI Stasis not responding to meds
Last Post by LittlePuffyTail at 1/02/2013 1:40 AM (126 Replies)
|
Author Messages

User is Offline Nova
219 posts Send Private Message
5/28/2012 8:48 PM

Boon has had intermitten GI motility slowdown issues so the vet gave us Cisapride and Reglan on hand for this every once in a while. He usually responded very well to Cisapride and not so well to Reglan. Yesterday he was under a lot of stress when we were clipping his toenails, he absolutely reaked out. 

A few hours later, he passed large dysbiosis stools (big turds covered in mucus) and nothing since. Today, he has not eaten or drank, so I have been syringe feeding him Critical Care. I got him to nibble on some greens, massaged his belly for over an hour. Gave him Cisapride every 8 hours (3 doses total).


He has not made one single poop since yesterday (over 24 hours ago).


Of course this happened on a holiday, and my fiance works from 8am to 8pm all day today and I have no car. I don't know how to rush my Boon to the vet but we might have to try and get my fiance to race home from work tomorrow at 8pm and then race to the vet who closes at 9:00pm and they are a half hour away.


Now my question is this. We have the Cisapride on hand and he has had 3 doses of it already, and the Critical Care and yesterday he had Bene-Bac with his nail clipping since it was particularly stressful for him for some reason. He has lots of greens and hay and we removed all pellets but he simply will not eat and will not poop. He has peed a little.


I don't understand why he is not responding to the medication?!

I also have some Reglan on hand that was usually ineffective for him in the past. Please help until I get him to the vet as soon as I possibly can..... please tell me we have time....


User is Offline Monkeybun
Hillsboro, Oregon
10457 posts Send Private Message
5/29/2012 12:16 AM
It could be a different reason, and may not respond the same way to the drugs. And sometimes, drugs become less effective if used often. Honestly, I would call a cab and get him in if he still hasn't pooped.

User is Offline LittlePuffyTail
New Brunswick, Canada
Forum Leader
11561 posts Send Private Message
5/29/2012 1:43 AM
I agree with Monkey. If you havent already brought him in, I urge you to. Bunnies going through GI issues can dehydrate and he probably needs IV fluids. The vet may do an X-ray to see whats going on.

(((((Boon))))) Please keep us updated.
Proud to be a Bunny Hugger and a voice for the voiceless
PhotobucketPhotobucketPhotobucket

User is Offline Nova
219 posts Send Private Message
5/29/2012 9:57 AM
Well, I got him in to see the vet on an Emergency basis, I had a friend take me. I got in at 2pm, and the "rabbit savvy" vet was not scheduled to come in until 4pm. So I saw a jerk who doesn't regularly see rabbits but who does see rabbits. DAMN IT.

He said I've been doing all the right things and all he needs is hydrated. He also gave me Baytril for him b/c his nose was a little snuffly (but it always is and never responded to antibx before and it's not very bad). I suggested an x-ray and the vet said "wellif there's a blockage then the treatment is the same." I said what if it needs to be removed surgically? And he said that would be very risky and the rabbit would likely die. So the answer was no. and I personally think the guy just didn't wanna do it. The whole thng costed me $100, which I don't have so they have to bill me.


M%(&#&%ER

I wanted them to do a freaking x-ray and it was so far away and now I'm back and Boon is traumatized and don't know what to do.

I'm going to be taking Boon to the local rabbit rescue and she is going to see if she can help me in some way, shape or form.

He is stll not eating, drinking or pooping, PLUS he's traumatized from today.

User is Offline CinnabunMom
in the TARDIS
1194 posts Send Private Message
5/29/2012 10:39 AM
(((((BOON)))))) I really hope he feels better soon
chair1-1

User is Offline LittlePuffyTail
New Brunswick, Canada
Forum Leader
11561 posts Send Private Message
5/29/2012 1:10 PM
Im so sorry to hear that. Is there no other vet you can see? I hope the rabbit rescue can help.

Youre right, the vet definitely should have taken an X-ray. The X-ray could show if its just gas or a blockage. Did he give Boon IV fluids?

Its possible its a bad case of gas. Do you have any simethicone to give him. If not, you can buy it in the baby or stomach section at any drugstore. I use the brand Ovol. It cant hurt to try and if it is gas, it will give him some relief. The recommended dosage is 1 ml every hour for the first 3 hours, then 1 ml every few hours after that. If it hasnt helped by that point, it probably wont.

((((Boon)))))
Proud to be a Bunny Hugger and a voice for the voiceless
PhotobucketPhotobucketPhotobucket

User is Offline Nova
219 posts Send Private Message
5/29/2012 6:15 PM
Hey gang, it's midnight and I JUST got back from the vet's office. The rabbit specialist whom Boon normally sees was there tnight and I just got my arse in the car and insisted to wait to see her no matter what the cost. Which was hundreds of dollars. The rabbit rescue owner was very insightful as well.

I just got done emailing a friend of mine who was staying updated on the situation, here is what I wrote/what happened:

I was at the vet's office for the second time. I had went back because I just had a gut feeling that the first vet was negligent and I was right. I waited for 3 hours to see the rabbit specialist that boon normally sees. She couldn't see me until 9:30pm - closing time. She told me he was in bad shape and his actual stomach was ready to rupture and that she felt an impaction of very hard, large feces in the colon. She gave him an enema and a heavy opioid for his nerves and pain. (when they are nervous and in pain they are even less likely to eat). 12 large, hard impacted poops came out during the enema. they didn't look normal at all so I'm hoping those are the culprit. What made it even more painful for him was the motility meds we were giving him was causing his stomach to force even more pressure to his impacted colon. my poor poor baby. He is in his bed resting now, doped up on Buprenorphine. I hope he can start eating now and pooping instead of getting any worse. she did say that an xray tonight would have been a pointless waste of money because it would show what she felt with her hands which was distention and impacted feces.
She (vet) said he will either get very better from now or very worse, in which case we have to rush him to Metro Akron....3 hours away in ohio and lots and lots of money. The visit tonight alone ran me $200 that I had to pay with a charge card. I talked to the owner of the local rescue that I foster for and she said to consider disputing the charges of the prior, earlier visit today with the vet who denied feeling any obstructions and denied an xray, saying it was "unnecessary.". He charged me for $*&! he didn't even do, like prescription of Cisapride....uh, I already have Cisapride on hand at home and had been giving it to him, thank you very much. I have some beotching out to do tomorrow.



I hope Boon starts to poop and eat again when he wakes up a bit. so so so soososooooo worried.

His tummy made some blurping noises after the enema ... is that a good sign?


Also I am just assuming that the motility meds were bad when he had the obstruction but am wondering if I should continue them now. Vet says I should but I'm not sure.

And of course, not  ALL of his fecal matter was released...which worries me that some impaction may still be present.


User is Offline Monkeybun
Hillsboro, Oregon
10457 posts Send Private Message
5/29/2012 7:03 PM
yeah, definitely call about those charges, its ridiculous to charge you for non treatment, when he did need it.

User is Offline angelicvampyre
757 posts Send Private Message
5/29/2012 9:22 PM
Hope his tummy feels better.
Photobucket

User is Offline LittlePuffyTail
New Brunswick, Canada
Forum Leader
11561 posts Send Private Message
5/30/2012 12:45 AM
Im glad you were able to see a knowledgeable vet. Hopefully, getting those poos out will give him some relief.

Please keep us updated. Boon will be in my thoughts today. ((((Boon))))

I as well would dispute the charges.
Proud to be a Bunny Hugger and a voice for the voiceless
PhotobucketPhotobucketPhotobucket

User is Offline RabbitPam
South Florida
Forum Leader
10566 posts Send Private Message
5/30/2012 1:22 AM
Oh, Nova, what an ordeal you went through last night. I am so glad you got to the vet that was helpful.
I would say follow that vet's instructions, since she treated boon well enough to make a definitive positive change. Now that the major impaction has gone, I am sure you're right that there's more, but it may be able to move along with the motility drug so if she said to stay on it, keep it up. I also think the noise in the tummy was a good sign. It probably was movement now that the pressure was released. Fluids and movement are usually good.

How is boon this morning? I hope you got some rest. Sending {{{{{{{{{{{Healing vibes}}}}}}}}}}
 photo CarrotCrop100x500BBSiggy_zps0f2147e4.jpg Have your people call my people. We'll do carrots.

User is Offline Nova
219 posts Send Private Message
5/30/2012 7:18 AM
Hi, ((((HUGS))))

I woke up this morning very scared to check on Boon, but he was sitting upright in his bed looking perky as ever.

However... his food and hay was barely touched, and unfortunately there waso only 1 poo, and it was kind of like a big sausage poo covered in mucus. I picked it up with some tweezers and it did have some fur hairs in it. I don't know if it is "the" furball culprit....
I am offering him all kinds of hay, and green leafy veggies, but he wants none.
I am keeping him up with his Baytril, Cisapride and Simethicone.

Other than that he is very active, binkying a lot, running around very happily - but I'm worried that is just because he is hydrated and passed a lot of junk last night - he is still grinding his teeth like he is in pain and he still is not eating or pooping aside from the big sausage poo explained above.

Someone I know personally mentioned mineral oil, pineapple juice and unformed liquid jello. Which of these should I try?

I'm not sure if his behaviors are good or bad signs. If he will decline or continue to get better. Please talk me through this.

User is Offline Sarita
(Dallas)
Forum Leader
17686 posts Send Private Message
5/30/2012 7:48 AM
I would call the vet and ask them what you should do at this point and have them advise you.

User is Offline CinnabunMom
in the TARDIS
1194 posts Send Private Message
5/30/2012 9:36 AM
Poor baby. I hope he gets better.
And definitely check about those charges, you shouldn't have to pay for that!
chair1-1

User is Offline bunnnnnnie!
Illinois
1400 posts Send Private Message
5/30/2012 10:08 AM
If he's grinding his teeth, maybe some Metacam is in order? I know after Zeus's neuter he always ate the best about 30 minutes after his dose of Metacam.

Sending you tons of good thoughts and vibes. Persistent GI stasis is so horrible and scary to deal with.
He's the floppiest... he's the loppiest... he's King Zeus, the gentle giant French Lop!

She's the fuzziest... she's the wuzziest... she's Little Hera, the spunky Lionhead!


User is Offline Nova
219 posts Send Private Message
5/30/2012 12:03 PM
Thanks for the support....

The vet's offices are useless at this point. They said they have done everything they could, meds, enema, etc. aside from surgical intervention, which would almost definitely have a fatal outcome, and I'd have to travel 4 hours away to have it done by a super specialist who charges quite a bit of money which I do not have. I mean, I have a few more hundred to throw at the situation, but not as much as I would need to have the surgery which will almost definitely result in his death anyway.
One of the more rabbit-dumb, insensitive vets said that since he is not even a year old yet and he's had problems like this every couple months, maybe he should be put to sleep.

You can only imagine what I am feeling right now.

As an aside... Today is Phenom's first birthday. (And Beau's, too, may he RIP).

I have him 1cc of medical Mineral Oil and he produced 3 large, wet, mucus covered sausage poos.... but he still has no appetite and keeps licking his genital area and tail. He will take a nibble or bite out of some greens or hay every hour or so.

I don't know what to think at this point?

User is Offline LittlePuffyTail
New Brunswick, Canada
Forum Leader
11561 posts Send Private Message
5/30/2012 1:07 PM
Just keep trying to get him to eat. Is he taking the Critical Care okay.

The poops are definitely a good thing, it means there is movement in there.

((((Hugs to you)))) I dealt with an almost fatal blockage with one of my buns. We nursed him round the clock for 3 days, giving him critical care every couple of hours, pain and motility drugs and the vet gave us a bag of IV fluids and a butterfly catheter. Hydration is very important. Could your vet show you how to administer the fluids yourself. I think this had a big part in saving Bindis life.
Proud to be a Bunny Hugger and a voice for the voiceless
PhotobucketPhotobucketPhotobucket

User is Offline Nova
219 posts Send Private Message
5/30/2012 5:23 PM
More gross wet large sausage poos have been slowly being passed through-out the day, along with yellow mucus. I'm guessing the yellow mucus is the build up of bacteria from the immobile build up of contents the past few days. my poor poor baby. He is not even a year old.

It seems like he will get a little hungry, start munching and then promptly stop. I'm guessing hs gut is still moving very slowly else he'd be able to keep eating without feeling so full. Keeping up with the meds.
It seems the .01cc of Mineral Oil (medical grade) is what really got things moving today after the enema removed the bulk of the impactions.

Spoke with the "super specialist" on the phone today; they said that because he has had stasis issues so much and he s not even a year old yet they want to get to the "root cause" and do a total diagnostic workup, which will cost several hundred dollars. I want to get this done but I blew all my money on saving his life this time. They also had me make an appointment for him at 4:30 Friday just in case he is still not doing well by then..... but again it is quite a ways away. I hope he can get back to normal for a while so that I can save up for this huge "workup" with the super rabbit specialist (Dr. Riggs in Barberton OH).

Any support, advice is so very welcomed. so very very worried about him.

 Here we are at just a day before he got sick. He was licking my finger - he's a kisser.


User is Offline longhairmike
110° bliss
1002 posts Send Private Message
5/30/2012 6:24 PM
i remember when buki had her stasis,, the vet told me that cisapride and reglan target different aspects of stasis, so they can piggybacked.

you want to make sure you get plenty of water in him before each dose of mineral oil (think waterslides)

User is Offline Nova
219 posts Send Private Message
5/30/2012 9:14 PM
Hi mike,

I mentioned that too to the jerk dumb-vet and he disagreed so of course I know better. Other, more rabbit savvy vets have mentioned using both the Reglan and Cisapride together for severe cases. The reason being that Reglan works moreso on upper GI while Cisapride works more for lower GI. I think in this case both would be necessary b/c Boon not only had a large, hard dry impaction in his colon but his stomach was also hard and swollen.

He has been passing few but large mucusy poos after the .01cc mineral oil, and barely eating but hey, at least he is eating at all.And the mineral oil does not draw water content from the intestines, it just acts as a lubricant, unlike that laxotone crap.


MODERATORS: Please correct my typing error above where I mentioned that I gave him 1cc of mineral oil...... I MEANT to say .01cc mineral oil. Meaning, 1/10th of a milliliter. You gotta be real conservative with that stuff and 1 whole cc would be bad.

User is Offline LittlePuffyTail
New Brunswick, Canada
Forum Leader
11561 posts Send Private Message
5/31/2012 1:27 AM
I fixed it for you. You can click the Edit button on the top right side of the post you want to change.

Your bunny is so adorable. Im really hoping he starts eating soon. Make sure to keep him very well hydrated.

I think its definitely a good idea to find the root of the problem, it may save you money in the long run.
Proud to be a Bunny Hugger and a voice for the voiceless
PhotobucketPhotobucketPhotobucket

User is Offline Nova
219 posts Send Private Message
5/31/2012 11:29 AM
Well, this morning I woke up and his bottom was just covered in mush poops and yellow mucus, some large turds too. So, things ARE moving again, but his flora balance seems to be off?

Perhaps it was the .01cc mineral oil or maybe too many green leafy veggies (cilantro, escarole and endive seems to the only things he is relatively interested in).

His appetite is very low but he does munch periodically on hay, no more than one or two strands an hour, sometimes a pellet or two. He does need seem interestedin drinking water. (he drinks from a bowl).

This morning - After giving him a butt bath and cleaning the mess up, I skipped his morning dose of Cisapride, gave him his Baytril, andnow I'm trying to balance whether or not to give him some more bene-bac and hope it normalizes or stress him out and force some Critical Care. This poor bun is extremely stressed out. I really want to weigh my options and tread very lightly here. I'm going to continue him on the Cisapride but for this morning I skipped it due to the total mush explosion this morning.

Please, bunny peeps, help me out here.

User is Offline LittlePuffyTail
New Brunswick, Canada
Forum Leader
11561 posts Send Private Message
5/31/2012 12:29 PM
I strongly suggest you talk to your vet about getting some more fluids in him. Hes probably very dehydrated from the mushy poos and not drinking.
Proud to be a Bunny Hugger and a voice for the voiceless
PhotobucketPhotobucketPhotobucket

User is Offline Kokaneeandkahlua
Edmonton, Alberta; Canada
Forum Leader
11445 posts Send Private Message
5/31/2012 5:42 PM
You really need to talk to a vet. We just cannot do anything except encourage members to seek veterinary care when we know (through our own experiences) that it's needed. There is no home cure we can recommend, and stasis is a very serious situation, so if you aren't happy with your vet, I would recommend phoning around until you find a vet you are happy with and getting him in. {{Vibes}}
Photobucket Photobucket Photobucket Kokanee & Chuck My Bridge Bunnies-you left paw prints on my heart

User is Offline Beka27
Cleveland, Ohio (USA)
Forum Leader
15646 posts Send Private Message
6/01/2012 1:37 AM

I agree with LPT and K&K. Try and get him into the vet THIS morning. It's Friday, the weekend is coming up, and he needs to be seen before Monday for fluids.  Have you given sub Q fluids in the past?  Keeping him hydrated is going to be one of the best defenses at this point.

Meadow..... Photobucket ...... Max, my angel bunny

User is Offline RabbitPam
South Florida
Forum Leader
10566 posts Send Private Message
6/01/2012 6:13 AM
At risk of sounding like an echo, I, too, think a call to the vet asap is necessary.
What I would suggest is making a detailed list, possibly a time line, of exactly what has been done and when, so you and the vet can put your heads together and make one plan of action with agreed upon steps. That way you know what's having what effect, and you don't forget to tell the vet about a detail that might be having an impact.
Vets are very good about partnering with owners and staying available by phone. Be sure to get a number you can reach over the weekend in case things get worse, but at least you will have a plan together for the next few days.
 photo CarrotCrop100x500BBSiggy_zps0f2147e4.jpg Have your people call my people. We'll do carrots.

User is Offline Nova
219 posts Send Private Message
6/01/2012 1:46 PM
Hey,

Yes I know. The thing is, he is drinking and eating again. Not as much as he usually always did, but enough. I think he is good on hydration at this point. IF HE STOPS EATING AND DRINKING AGAIN I can get him to an emergency vet clinic that can HYDRATE him but they won't examine him cause they dont know anything about rabbits.

I Called the vet's office and no vet in a 50 mile radius who sees rabbits is in until Monday. Some of the rabbit savvy vets' schedules were switched around. So I'm screwed in that regard, but I think the Stasis is improving at this point, since he is eating and drinking. The problem now is the mushy stool and yellow mucus.

What that tells me is that there could be a bacterial infection. I called his vet's office knowing that the rabbit vets were not there all weekend asking to bring in a stool sample, and they said no, only their rabbit vets will examine a stool sample from a rabbit.

So what to do now? He is on Baytril. I would assume he'd need an antifungal like Flagyl though. just guessing.

I gave him Benebac lastnight and I want to give it to him daily but the instructions say one tube full every 3 days..... why not everyday for a situation like this?

User is Offline Kokaneeandkahlua
Edmonton, Alberta; Canada
Forum Leader
11445 posts Send Private Message
6/02/2012 9:59 AM
I would hazard a guess that the baytril is causing the messy stools, as well there could be a change in GI flora balance that caused the stasis in the first place still going on.
Were you able to make an appointment for Monday with the vet who sees rabbits? They would be the best to really figure out what is going on. {{Continued Vibes}}
Photobucket Photobucket Photobucket Kokanee & Chuck My Bridge Bunnies-you left paw prints on my heart

User is Offline LittlePuffyTail
New Brunswick, Canada
Forum Leader
11561 posts Send Private Message
6/03/2012 2:05 AM
How is he doing today?
Proud to be a Bunny Hugger and a voice for the voiceless
PhotobucketPhotobucketPhotobucket

User is Offline Nova
219 posts Send Private Message
6/03/2012 9:46 PM
Binkying in this morning with good news - Boon is slowly making a recovery. It seems the enema the bulk of the crap out of there which was hard, large, dry and compacted....and then the .01cc minral oil flushed the remaining impactions out. It was pretty explosive the first day, had to give him a butt bath, but then he started eating and drinking slowly on his own again.

I started him on a whole new round of Benebac to help get his stools back to form, today was his last Baytril day, and I tapered him off the Cisapride (cutting 0.2mL off over a period of 2 days after 1 week's use) and so tomorrow he will have no Cisapride and no Baytril. Hoefulyy things continue to normalize. Will keep you all updated!

As an aside, his brother who is in the shelter, Angus, had a bout of Stasis this week too. An at home mineral oil enema and a tiny .01cc mineral oil also did the trick or him as well. Seems they may have been molting. (I was at one time fostering Angus but I have a chronic health condition that worsened at an inconvenient time and it was just too much to handle when it went downhill....but he is very spoiled at the shelter too and I get to see him when I visit!) 


We have an appointment set up with a rabbit super specialist to do a full diagnostic workupof boon to find any underlying causes of his proneness to stasis, and also going to see if he might be okay for a neuter this summer. This rabbit specialist is very equipped and prefers to deal with rabbits. He is a strictly exotic pet vet. It's going to cost a lot of money though, Boon is worth every penny of debt I am getting myself into. 


Thank you all for your vibes, please continue them as tomorrow he will be totally off Cisapride!

Binky out!


User is Offline LittlePuffyTail
New Brunswick, Canada
Forum Leader
11561 posts Send Private Message
6/05/2012 12:47 AM
I'm very glad to hear that Boon is feeling better. And thats great that you have an apt with a rabbit specialist. Hope all goes well with your visit.
Proud to be a Bunny Hugger and a voice for the voiceless
PhotobucketPhotobucketPhotobucket

User is Offline Nova
219 posts Send Private Message
10/28/2012 10:23 PM
I know that this thread is from May-ish, but I'm writing here to say that Boon is going through the exact same thing that happened in May.

Three days ago, he began to pass very few large, mucus covered poos, and his appetite went south.

I decreased his pellets, gave him Bene-Bac daily (I normally give it to him a few times a week, because he has such a history of stasis issues), doubled up on the hay, have been giving him about 3ml of simethicone every 4-8 hours.

Nothing.

So the next day, which was two days ago, I started him on Reglan. DESPITE the fact he always did better on Cisapride, I did the Reglan this time because he just was weaned off Cisapride after being on it for 2 weeks straight during his neuter which went very well.
He continued to periodically pass very few large, mucous covered poos, and peeing, but at least he was passing stuff and eating/drinking (thought much less than usual).

Today, I woke up to find that he had not eaten a bit of his hay, pellets or green leafy veggies. I FREAKED. Switched him from Reglan to the Cisapride in hopes that it would work better---it did not. Called the vet even though today is a Sunday, a tech answered, and I suggested a "safe" laxative for a bunny. Vet called in Lactulose, (not to be confused with Laxotone) - Lactulose is like a sugar that draws moisture into the contents of the gut.
And of course, made an appointment---soonest he can be seen is at 9pm at night. *Sigh*

I picked up the lactulose and started him on IV Lactated Ringers solution (the vet gave me some to have on hand since he has a history of this). He was so dehydrated, his body absorbed the solution very rapidly.
I also gave him some Metacam at this point, along with the fluids, Cisapride and Simethicone for today.

Also went to the grocery store for more varietys of veggies.

He won't touch any of them. Won't eat a damn thing!

force-fed him about 15cc of very diluted Critical Care divided into two doses, morning and night - he hates the stuff so I try not to over-do it.

He's been drinking on his own periodically, but so far, he has not pooped in over 24 hours, and hasn't peed in about 12 hours, despite force feedings of critical care, water, and Benebac. He did voluntarily take many drinks of water, just won't eat more than tiny piece of hay once a day.

Tonight, I switched him back to Reglan. Tomorrow, I'll probably give him both - not at the same time though.

What saved him last time was an enema administered by the veterinarian. It enabled him to pass 12 large, very hardened and dried up blockage poos, and from there, it all just came piling out (if you read back on this entry, you will see how it all just started coming out in ridiculous amounts, turned to diarrhea basically, but it also saved his life).

However, his belly feels very soft and doughey, unlike last time when it was very bloated and hard.

Hopefully the vet can give him another enema tomorrow and hopefully it works like it did last time.

I'm afraid to go to sleep tonight for fear of waking up to him over the rainbow tomorrow. :*(

prayers please.

User is Offline LittlePuffyTail
New Brunswick, Canada
Forum Leader
11561 posts Send Private Message
10/29/2012 1:32 AM
I'm so sorry to hear Boon is unwell again. I'm really hoping the vet can fix him up asap. So you're going to the vet on Tuesday? Kind of confusing because of the time zone differences. I wish there was something I could do to help. Please keep us updated.

(((((((Feel Better Boon))))))
Proud to be a Bunny Hugger and a voice for the voiceless
PhotobucketPhotobucketPhotobucket

User is Offline Nova
219 posts Send Private Message
10/29/2012 7:32 AM

Hi LPT,


I'm going to the vet in about 9 hours, it will be 9pm at night. It's the only they could get him in, and the only time I'll have transportation to get there anyway.

I'm hoping they give him even more fluids an enema, as that is what saved him last time.

I'm going to attempt to give him IV fluids myself this afternoon... last night my friend gave them to him. The vet's office showed me how, but they showed me with a barrel syringe and everytime I try to give him fluids that way, it hurts him and he flinches and gets injured. The IV fluids that go in as a drip are much more comfortable to him and easier for me.... wish me luck


He ate 1 leaf of escarole and 1 strand of cilantro, left 1 large, hardened, dried poo.


I still don't know whether to put him on both the cisapride and the Reglan or not....or just stay with the Reglan.... since Cisapride did nothing for him yesterday.... which is unusual...usually Reglan is useless...and it still kind of is


User is Offline jerseygirl
Australia
14759 posts Send Private Message
10/29/2012 7:46 AM

Oh no you poor thing! He is a tricky one. Sending many {{{{{{VIBES}}}}}}

It's interesting the tech suggested lactulose. This is something I've heard is used for rabbits with "Cow Poop Syndrome" and in the treatment protocol that Dr Krempels uses for the condition. Did you ever get in touch with her?

A lot of what you have described about him in the past makes him a candidate for this condition IMO.

Forgive me if this has already been asked but has he ever had his teeth thoroughly examined? Recently?  This is a long thread and I haven't re-read it all sorry.


User is Offline tanlover14
3391 posts Send Private Message
10/29/2012 2:17 PM
Wow. Sending Boon some much needed healing vibes! I hope your luck gets better with him. Let us know what the vet says and if there was anything they could do to help him! Poor little guy...

In another note, did you see the specialist you were going to see the first time?? You mentioned it a couple of comments above. Just wondering if you were able to come up with a better diagnosis of Boon.
 photo f7a948e4-51c5-4191-9c54-d543ef2be477_zps834141e2.png

User is Offline Skipper's Mama
Florida
1252 posts Send Private Message
10/29/2012 3:57 PM
Oh no! (((Healing vibes to Boon))) I hope he gets better!

User is Offline lmais
272 posts Send Private Message
10/29/2012 4:35 PM
Just tuning in here but (((((((((((((((((((((((((((VIBES))))))))))))))))))))))))) and best of luck. Keep us posted

User is Offline NikitaSue20
Gettysburg, Pennsylvania
132 posts Send Private Message
10/29/2012 7:53 PM
I'm very sorry to hear this. It must be so stressful. Please remember to get sleep. Everything seems so much worse when you don't get enough sleep. I hope the vet is able to help boon and from the past they better give him an enema.Sending you healing vibes.

User is Offline Nova
219 posts Send Private Message
10/29/2012 8:07 PM

Yes he was diagnosed with possible Megacolon and chronic slow motility of unknown origin.


This recent bout was most likely the result of a molt.

The Lactulose was my idea. it did not help.

He saw the vet tonight and she gave him an enema but his colon is empty while his stomach is about to burst. He has a blockage.


she said there is nothing more she can do except keep giving him the Reglan and keeping him hydrated and cautiously force feeding him. If he does not improve within the next day or so, I should consider putting him down before his stomach ruptures.


Yes Boon saw the exotic specialist a while back he was of no help


However there is one medication, Viokase, which was recommended by Dana Krempels to use cautiously in the case of breaking up and dissolving a severe and genuine blockage. It is animal derived protyolytic enzymes which beak up and dissolve fats, mucus, proteins, etc. and can be helpful in the case of genuine blockage,

 however,

my vet has never heard of such a thing, says she needs to research it and Boon may not have that kind of time, and

Dana Krempels, Ph.D who recommends, recommends it CAUTIOUSLY because it is so powerful thatit can irritate and burn his throat and esophagus which can be very painful.


When I went to write Dana Krempels, it said she is on vacation again until Noveber 1st. So I sent her an email.


I do not know what to do. I have cried myself sick, I have a migraine, Iw ant to throw up and convulse, and i have been clenching my fists so hard that my knuckles are bleeding. I have spent thousands and thousands of dollars in emergencies and also just to get him cleared for neuter surgery which was a breeze compared to this.


if anyone has any info on the Viokase please let me know before it is too late thank you


User is Offline NikitaSue20
Gettysburg, Pennsylvania
132 posts Send Private Message
10/29/2012 8:37 PM
I'm so sorry to hear this. I'm really hoping for you that things get better and I sincerely hope something dramatically improves before you have to make that hard decision. I wish I could offer more help I really do. But my heart goes out to you. I know this is just about the hardest thing. Please Please Please remember to get sleep and stay hydrated.

User is Offline LittlePuffyTail
New Brunswick, Canada
Forum Leader
11561 posts Send Private Message
10/30/2012 1:13 AM
I'm so very sorry to hear he is in such a bad state. I am praying for him. ((((((Boon))))) Please feel free to PM me if you need to talk. I know how hard it is dealing with a very sick rabbit.
Proud to be a Bunny Hugger and a voice for the voiceless
PhotobucketPhotobucketPhotobucket

User is Offline Nova
219 posts Send Private Message
10/30/2012 6:48 AM
Hi, everybun,

I woke up today to find a moderate amount of mucousy sausage poos in his.... bed....

He is actually trying to work on eating some hay right now...but he is taking it very, veryyyy slowly - he will eat a few bites and then stop and hunch over, but I am just glad he passed something and is willfully eating even if it's not that much.

LPT, thank you for your kind offer to chat. I may tae you up on that later. For now I am going to get some Bromelain at the vitamin store (the enzyme found in pineapple) and try to find out how much to give him.
Does anyone know??? Have you ever given your bun Bromelain? I'll make a separate post...

User is Offline jerseygirl
Australia
14759 posts Send Private Message
10/30/2012 7:12 AM
Thank goodness! It's good you didn't have to resort to that medicine- it sounds risky.
The lactulose; I believe this is used more as a maintenance thing. A former forum leader here (Katnipcrzy) was giving it the her rabbit daily on dr krempels advice. Perhaps it could benefit Boon as more of a preventative?

More {{{vibes}}}. I hope youre getting some rest and hope updates continue to be positive.

User is Offline lmais
272 posts Send Private Message
10/30/2012 7:20 AM
I'm sure Boon would appreciate anything preventative that you can find, maybe you can talk to your vet (the non-idiot vet!) about the options you have
((((((((vibes)))))))

He's such a beautiful boy

User is Offline NikitaSue20
Gettysburg, Pennsylvania
132 posts Send Private Message
10/30/2012 1:14 PM
O thank good! I'm so glad that something passed. I was terrified to check. I'm sending vibes for even more healing and to see him pull through this.

User is Offline tanlover14
3391 posts Send Private Message
10/30/2012 1:29 PM
Also sending Boon continued healing vibes. Pushing for your little guy so badly! Keep us updated on any new occurrences. My heart goes out to you both.
 photo f7a948e4-51c5-4191-9c54-d543ef2be477_zps834141e2.png

User is Offline Nova
219 posts Send Private Message
10/30/2012 5:14 PM
thank you all..

update...

despite my exhilaration and happiness over the poos, when i went to pick him up, it felt like there is a baseball where his stomach should be, and the rest of his gut is gassy and doughey.

heart sunk
spoke too soon on here
and of course...
Around 4pm this afternoon he suddenly stopped ravenously foraging through the hay and veggies and his poos turned to tiny, dehydrated infrequent occurrences.... so after being held up at the store listening to the store owner yack on about how her daughter won a rabbit at a fair (sigh) i didnt get home til like 7 and he didnt get his 100cc fluids til 8....

after the fluids absorbed he ate some hay tonight, a few bites of his cilantro, passed some mucousy stool, but is currently back to being hunched over in pain and that "mass" is still really worrying me

I have an appointment with an exotic specialist on Friday, dont know if he'll make it that long, plus this exotic specialist is all gung-ho about keeping rabbits overnight, with barking dogs and i will not let that happen. and is so money hungry i'm going to go bankrupt over this...que sera...

was up til 6am belly rubbing him, he passed a lot of gas. i was in and out of the bathroom with sick migraine from all the crying.

My question is this....if this were a true blockage, how is it that he passes stool when he is maximally hydrated & then becomes hungry enough to num some hay? it may not be much, or it may be large and mucousy, but he passes it when he gets hungry and nums some hay..... this is usually after a huge dose of subQ fluids....
havent given him any bromelain yet...
still having some migraine and will check back soon....


User is Offline jerseygirl
Australia
14759 posts Send Private Message
10/30/2012 5:41 PM
Thoughts: maybe a partial blockage or what he is passing was from his lower tract? Idk...

I think it's the narrow part of the tract that doesn't function properly with that syndrome. Where the stomach and rest of the tract meet. Pyloric something-a-rather.

Has your vet suggested Questran at all? Are you still giving benebac?

{{{Boon}}}. Vibes for you also!

User is Offline Nova
219 posts Send Private Message
10/30/2012 8:44 PM
Yes the Pyloric Valve. That does seem to be where his problems are....

I am definitely wondering (and worrying) about the partial blockage. What if it gets bigger? What if it doesn't break up? Is Gastrotomy the only option? Because that's a death sentence I cannot afford.

My vet has never heard of questran

Tried calling her 3 x today and even left messages with the staff. Heard nothing back. He sees the exotic vet Friday, who willmost likely try to squeeze an overnight stay out of me just for the $250 cuz he knows surgery will kill boon.

User is Offline jerseygirl
Australia
14759 posts Send Private Message
10/31/2012 12:23 AM
What about this vet you're seeing Friday? Can you ring and ask them if Questran would be safe to administer? You'd need to find out if safe given there might be a blockage. Its non prescription so if they gave you the green light, you could get it at a store.

It's mentioned in the stasis article: http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/ileus.html

User is Offline jerseygirl
Australia
14759 posts Send Private Message
10/31/2012 12:26 AM
Regarding bromelian, I've never used it but I believe it's the main enzyme in Oxbow's papaya tablets. Even more then papain from papaya.

User is Offline LittlePuffyTail
New Brunswick, Canada
Forum Leader
11561 posts Send Private Message
10/31/2012 1:05 AM
How often are you giving Sub Q? I would make sure to give him the max dosage recommended by your vet. When Bindi had a blockage (he ate teddy bear stuffing) I believe it was the fluids that saved his life. We stayed up all night giving fluids every 4 hours, I believe it was. He wasn't passing any poos at all and after a few days of exhaustive treatments, passed a giant cow patty.

Are you giving Simethicone as well? This might help relieve the gassy buildup and pain that he is probably experiencing.

I'm sorry if you mentioned already but did anyone do an X-ray? I would suggest one to determine if there really is a blockage. He might be experiencing acute bloat which has the same symptoms as a blockage. If the vet is positive (by X-ray) there is no blockage they could administer motility drugs that might help get him moving along again. The vet has to be 100% certain there is no blockage to administer this drug, however. 

((((((Boon- Feel better and get those poops coming))))))

Proud to be a Bunny Hugger and a voice for the voiceless
PhotobucketPhotobucketPhotobucket

User is Offline NikitaSue20
Gettysburg, Pennsylvania
132 posts Send Private Message
10/31/2012 3:07 PM
I'm sending vibes. I really hope he pulls through this. He's so strong I'm sure he can do it. And your really starting to concern me. Please be taking care of yourself.Your no help to boon if you get sick from a weak immune system. For every 10 min of crying you need to be drinking 8 fl oz of water to ward off dehydration.

User is Offline LittlePuffyTail
New Brunswick, Canada
Forum Leader
11561 posts Send Private Message
11/01/2012 1:16 AM
Any update?
Proud to be a Bunny Hugger and a voice for the voiceless
PhotobucketPhotobucketPhotobucket

User is Offline tanlover14
3391 posts Send Private Message
11/01/2012 6:46 AM
Also, sending more vibes your way and hoping for an update!

A good one that is...

And NikitaSue is completely right -- keep yourself up too. So worried about you and Boon.
 photo f7a948e4-51c5-4191-9c54-d543ef2be477_zps834141e2.png

User is Offline lmais
272 posts Send Private Message
11/01/2012 7:14 AM
I think we're all getting a little worried. I hope things are looking up for the both of you.

((((((((((((((vibes for you and boon))))))))))))))

User is Offline jerseygirl
Australia
14759 posts Send Private Message
11/01/2012 6:53 PM
{{{{{Boon & his Mama}}}}}

User is Offline Nova
219 posts Send Private Message
11/02/2012 8:22 AM
Hi all,

Sorry to worry you...we're still struggling.

He's been on Reglan for a week and we added Cisapride about 2 days ago.

The mass feels like it is gone, now his belly just feels doughey. I thought last night e was surely going to die, he didn't eat, poop and wasn't even swallowing his meds - BUT - he was doped up on Buprenorphine that the vet gave him about 8 hours prior. I kept putting my ear up to his belly, and heard some normal audible bowel sounds. Gave him about 50cc subQ fluids, and have been doing this once at night, trying to get him to drink on his own during the day, which he has done a few times.


This morning, I woke up and there were a few small, wet poos, and he ate his greens overnight. He was also numming on some small amounts of hay, but it didn't last long. He is back to being hunched over right now, but it's also med time and bellyrub time.

He saw an exotic pet vet last night, because the original exotic pet vet that he once dealt with in Barberton called me up and cancelled the Friday (today) appt - toldme he refuses to see any more of my pets, and doesn't care that my bun is in stasis. They said it was due to "too many past cancellations." I only cancelled once, and I warned him about that - back when Boon was scheduled to get neutered. Boon was a bit constipated that day and I cancelled. So then they made this other excuse, saying I had money problems - well, I do, but I always paid my bills up front. They then ran out of excuses and hung up on me.
That vet cared about nothing but money and fame anyway - he had a bobblehead doll made after him, is featured on all kinds of stupid tv commercials newspaper clippings, and even suggests putting dogs on sedatives during storm season. The invasive crap he wanted to do to boon was not only expensive and invasive but probably would have stressed him into a stasis if he hadn't been in one already.

I was panicked but I think it's a good thing we didn't see this vet.

I did frantically find an exotic vet down near Pittsburgh who was able to see him yesterday. He did a thorough oral exam, and said that Boon's bottom front molars are *slightly* overgrown, and if he recovers, we should address that, but it's nothing urgent. He said he didn't feel a blockage, but at this point, boon's GI was just feeling "doughey." At my request he did an x-ray and said that there is no blockage, his belly feels "doughey" at this point and he probably has an overgrowth of bacteria, as some yellow stinky goo was seeping from his bum. He prescribed him Bactrim (the smz liquid) for 14 days, and told me to keep him hydrated and continue the belly rubs and force feedings if he continues to not eat. He said the stuff the other exotic vet, like the general anesthesia for an oral exam, would be so unnecessary, as boon is so cooperative that he was able to do a thorough oral exam without any sedation.

No Questran - Dana said that could block him up more and that is more for cecal dysbiosis (imbalance of gut flora). She mentioned perhaps, if he recovers, getting him on a periodic regimen of Lactulose, as bunnies with this strange neurological genetic disease do well on periodic lactulose treatment, but in general, they don't live long and it is a very tough situation for the owner.


The exotic vet in Pittsburgh said he has seen bunnies with true blockages go on to recover, but whatever blockage he had is gone now. His gut is just static. He doped him up Buprenorphine and I swear I thought Boon was gonna die last night, but perhaps between the Buprenorphine and the stress of going down to Pittsburgh just made him tired and all he wanted to do was sleep. He went a good 12 hours without pooping.

I was sure he'd die overnight, but I woke up to find a few stools in his litterbox; dark, wet and small but there none the less. He ate his greens this morning (all of them!) and has been periodically munching on some small amounts of hay...but it was very short lived. He is back to sleeping now.

My extended fam keeps urging me to put him down but I read Dana's article on Ileus and it says that recovery can happen slowly and in "fits and starts."

Has this been the case generally with other buns in severe stasis??? 


sure, it's going to be a tough road even if he makes it through this because each consecutive bout is worse than the last.... but I just don't want to give up on him yet since he's not in critical condition (the vet said he doesnt think he is in critical condition).....am I wrong for this? How long is too long, anyway?

I was also emailing with Dana Krempels back and forth and she said, while, in general, bunnies with chronic GI issues have a shorter life span than most other bunnies, the fact that he is only a year old and is eating a bit on his own, has some bowel sounds, and producing SOME stool, and that his x-ray was clear, is a good sign, and to keep up with the supportive care (fluids, critical care, belly rubs, motility meds, antibiotic, gas relief, pain relief).
She did say, however, that this could also just be one of those bouts where his GI tract may not start to work again. But she did say that these little signs, him periodically pooping and munching hay/greens is a good sign.

Whenever I put my ear up to his belly, I do hear normal bowel sounds, which is also a good sign.

She highly recommended a second enema but the exotic vet didn't do one. If things go way south again, I will attempt one myself with the help of a rabbit wise friend who has done rabbit enemas before. I am not putting Boon thru another roadtrip for an enema.

At anyrate, since I know now that what we are dealing with right now is the shutdown of his GI tract and that there is no blockage, we just really have to try to get things moving again.....

How long can it take for things to get better? This has been going on for 8 or 9 days now, it was on Sunday and Monday that boon had the mass but that has since passed and since then it is mostly an issue of his gut not working; not wanting to eat, and not pooping very much.

Also, about me... my health was not really good even before this but I am managing. Thanks for the ecommendation of water. I have been feeling dehydrated and just generally sick to my stomach.

Thoughts, hugs, prayers and vibes still needed....and appreciated... thank you my bunny friends


User is Offline lmais
272 posts Send Private Message
11/02/2012 8:53 AM
I'm glad to hear things are looking okay. While I can't offer any advice on his stomach, I would like to offer a recent experience that may make you want to consider filing his teeth if they are a bit overgrown. Obviously not In an added trip to the vet but while you are there anyways. I'm recommending this since you said he is calm enough to have this done without the sedative. I recently noticed that Ruby was eating much less hay than usually so I took her to the vet and it turned out to be just from her back teeth being slightly overgrown and were causing small sores in her mouth when she ate. They didn't sedate her by they did give her some Metacam. By the time I was halfway home from the vet ( it's only about 15 minutes drive) she was munching away on the hay in her carrier and since then I've been going through hay like crazy.

Depending on how much stress you think the filing will cause him it may be worth it to take a look at the damage it might be doing to his mouth.

More ((((((((((((((((vibes))))))))))))) for both Boon and yourself. Keep the updates coming, I'm very hopeful for Boon, he seems to be a strong little fighter.

User is Offline Nova
219 posts Send Private Message
11/02/2012 12:16 PM

He is VERY much a fighter. Stronger than me! Hah! He's numming some hay right now, and after eating some greens, he sh*t the bed with large wet sausage poos. By no means am I assuming we're out of the woods, but I think this is an improvement.


About the teeth - absolutely, I couldn't agree more. The new vet and I had decided that if we can get him *stable* and get his gut working at least favorably - also give him a rest from all the trips - that we will be filing down those molars. He said it is ever so slight, but I want it addressed anyway. When this does happen, I probably will have him mildly sedated, because the trip back is a long one and he is very susceptible to stress. I hope this will help in the longterm. Also the Lactulose regimen that Dana suggested for "megacolon" bunnies, she says I need to talk to the vet about also. (She also mentioned that while people call it megacolon, it actually is not megacolon....it's some genetic issue dealing with how the stem cells that control gut motility developed {or failed to develop} in the womb).


I had also learned that the Cisapride we've been giving him is not optimal. The dose was too low, and the old vet had me emptying Cisapride capsule powder into water, but it is not stable in water for more than a few days, so we had the vet call it in to a compounding pharmacy to give us a 30 day stable supply and it *does* need refrigerated.


Hopefully, all of this stuff we're doing will work in the end..... I am so not ready to let him go over the rainbow so soon in his life. Please keep praying, and I appreciate the support so much here.


User is Offline Nova
219 posts Send Private Message
11/02/2012 12:57 PM
hmm... I wonder, if he doesn't make any significant improvements over the weekend, I mean other than this random up and down crap, if we should consider having his molars shaved down even tho he is not doing very well....

User is Offline lmais
272 posts Send Private Message
11/02/2012 1:03 PM
Does he get stressed when he goes to the vet? I'm thinking if he doesn't it might be a good idea since he wouldn't need sedation, and even if it stresses him a little bit it may be worth it because it will likely help (at least a little bit) with his appetite. It's the idea of sedation that worries me the most

User is Offline lmais
272 posts Send Private Message
11/02/2012 1:26 PM
P.S. (((((((((((continued vibes))))))))))))))

User is Offline Nova
219 posts Send Private Message
11/02/2012 1:40 PM
typically, yeah, going *anywhere* stresses him out. He's been doing a lot of sleeping today. Deep sleeping even - the twitchy ears and jaw and stuff. I am going to give him this weekend to have a rest from all the vet visits. But I am definitely concerned about the teeth.

If sanding the teeth down causes any kind of pain or anxiety, I'm wary of it, but I want it done one way or the other. I do notice that he likes the softer strands of hay.

dangit, I wish he'd just wake up and start eating and pooping like normal! This morning he was hopping all around the room, ate a bit, yucky pooped, even was chinning things.


This is so up and down.

User is Offline lmais
272 posts Send Private Message
11/02/2012 1:55 PM
Aw the deep sleeping is so cute - if they're like humans than it's probably really good for him because that's when we heal the fastest. Although I like better hearing that he was hopping around And yucky poop is better than no poop at this point, right? Of course normal would be great.

For the teeth my vet said it wouldn't cause Ruby any pain (I took her just on Tuesday). They did say that she struggled a bit because she didn't like the file being stuck in the back of her mouth. They ended up just giving her the Metacam I think just to relax her a little bit. I know it's intended as a painkiller but the vet remembered from last time she was on it about a year ago for an eye infection that it would chill her out for a while.

For travelling do you think it would help if you had someone drive you? That way you can give him a little relaxing massage there and back. That may help with his nerves knowing you're nearby.

The up and down must be so hard Just know all of our thoughts, prayers, and good healing vibes are with you and Boon here on BB.

User is Offline jerseygirl
Australia
14759 posts Send Private Message
11/02/2012 9:44 PM

Thanks for the update. We've been worried!
I'm also hopeful for Boon. Now you know there is no blockage must be a huge relief. Are you giving him critical care at all?

This new vet sounds promising. Interesting he did find some molar overgrowth. Though the thinks theyre not bad, they could be enough to cause Boon discomfort. Some rabbits are very sensitive. It's promising he allows the vet to look while awake. I agree with lmais, it might be worth asking if the can file them while he's awake. My vet clinic says theyve done this with some rabbits before. As to when, you probably have to speak to this new vet as to when is appropriate.

The other vet cancelled on the day of your appt?! That would be so so stressful. I'd be tempted to get one of these bobble heads and use it like a voodoo doll * ahem* though that could be bad karma. Quite frankly, good riddance, sounds as if you've found a better vet in the end.
Continued {{{vibes}}}

User is Offline LittlePuffyTail
New Brunswick, Canada
Forum Leader
11561 posts Send Private Message
11/03/2012 1:44 AM
First of all, I'm so glad to hear that Boon is improving!!! I was getting worried about the little guy. He's so lucky to have a Momma like you!

Second of all, I absolutely can't believe that vet!!! What a horrible person to deny you an appointment when your rabbit needs care. Hope Karma gets him!

Of course, I'm by no means an expert, but I would probably wait until Boon is a bit more improved before doing his teeth. When I get Bindi's teeth done, his mouth is quite sore and swollen and he is unwilling to eat for several days. Boon might not be as sensitive, though. Sorry to not remember, but have his teeth been done in the past?

(((((Boon- Time to give your Mom a break, little Man. Feel all better now. )))))))
Proud to be a Bunny Hugger and a voice for the voiceless
PhotobucketPhotobucketPhotobucket

User is Offline Nova
219 posts Send Private Message
11/03/2012 10:43 AM
Oh yes, he is on Critical Care, but I'm wary of it, because it has less fiber than his pellets! (read on....)
He needs it most esp in these last few days because
1. I know there is not a blockage and
2. I can now feel his spine an ribcage and it's disturbing to me.

But since he is eating little bits of hay and veggies on his own periodically, I only give him 10ml once or twice a day. (he is 3lbs, so if he were not eating at all, according to the instructions he'd need a total of 30ml a day I think).

The problems I'm having with the Critical Care.... I read on some other bunny forum that I'm not a member of, that Critical Care actually has less fiber in it than pellets do! And that it is a "board recommendation for emergencies" and can be given to LIZARDS too....

I looked at the bag, and its min/max fiber is 21% / 26%, as opposed to his oxbow PELLET food which is min 26% / max 29% fiber.....kind of a significant difference there...
....I'm wondering if I shouldn't crush up his pellets and mix those with water instead of the CC?! I'm afraid the CC is gonna get bound up in him and cause another acute blockage since his motility is so slow
Help? Thoughts?

He won't eat his pellets on his own - maybe 4 or 5 pellets at a time, and in general, I've taken his pellets away until he has better motility and appetite. He cannot survive on hay alone and a few veggies. I have to be careful how many veggies I give cause too much sometimes gives him gas.

Also don't know how much CC to give him *at one time* - I usually do 8 or 10ml in the am, and the same at night before bedtime. should I break this up into smaller amounts?
The last thing we need is for him to get bound up again.....any help on this please

As for his teeth.... the vet said he would want to do the filing after his gut gets moving at a "stable" pace again, if that even happens, and also, when he is finished with his antibiotics. But. If Boon's gut doesn't get moving at a stable pace again.... I don't know what to do. Is it possible that it can really take this long to get him going again?

As for today, I'd say it is slightly better than yesterday *so far*, and yesterday was slightly better than the previous day. But hopefully things don't go backwards.

Please let me know your thoughts on this....

User is Offline lmais
272 posts Send Private Message
11/03/2012 11:13 AM
I just found a link for a sort of fibre supplement for rabbits(http://www.vetscriptions.co.uk/PROT...RAB.html). Not to say that I'd trust this company, it looks a little bit sketchy actually, but it may be worth it to check with your vet if this or something similar would help boon on and that you could give him on a regular basis. If you read the description on the page, it does sound too good to be true, but it seems that he may benefit from a similar product if a trustworthy and effective one is out there.

I'm sure another member will have some input on the weight issue. Sorry I can't be much more help on this one. I'm glad it's looking better than yesterday - Keep on fighting Boon! ((((((((((((((((((((Vibes for Boon and Momma)))))))))))))))))))))

User is Offline jerseygirl
Australia
14759 posts Send Private Message
11/03/2012 2:53 PM

lmais, the protexin pellets seem popular among uk rabbit owners from what I've seen on uk based forums. I think its more readily there then critical care. I don't know how they compare however. I would think they're similar... Idk

Nova, this GI stasis article offers 2 ways to give pellets. 1 with them broken down with hot water then cooled and "fluffed" up. 2nd method is a pellet slurry.

http://www.mybunny.org/info/gi_stasis.htm

A good article for any rabbit owner to save btw.

Another thing you could try is pure hay pellets if you can find them. This company does straight Timothy ones or some combos of hay.
http://midvalleymillinghaypellets.c...uct-lineup

Or try offer Boon orchard grass or a third cut hay.
Also try plant materials different to his regular veggies. Rose petals and leaves, raspberry leaves, willow, dandelion...
Any of those fresh or dried. Rabbits seem to instinctively know what they need so he might go for something different to the usual offerings.

User is Offline Nova
219 posts Send Private Message
11/03/2012 4:57 PM
Yeah, I'm not sure if I can even order from the UK, as I'm in the US :\ it'd be nice, also, if they listed the full ingredient listing on there, but I had no idea that something like that even existed. It'd be very beneficial.

Boon seems quite emaciated at this point; he looks smaller, skin and bones. He plumps up a bit after his nightly fluids or after syringing him water...sigh.

I'm going to look into fluffing up the pellets he already has. The CC just has less fiber in it than his pellets do, and I'm wondering if the fluffy, wet mushy pellets will be better for him.
On the other hand, it may not make him ever want to go back to eating his pellets normally again at all!

He is still currently munching hay periodically (I have both timothy and oat - and a severe allergy to grass, but I'm making exceptions and using gloves/masks at this time), and have been feeding him leafy greens - a little variety here and there but mostly cilantro, escarole and endive. He seems to get very full after eating anything, and his poops are sooooooo sloooooooow. He seems to poop in spurts instead of what used to be normal for him - normal droppings several times per hour not so much now..... Some very large, some very small, but all very wet and yucky....and not very frequent.




If his pooper would just hurry the freaking food through, I am sure he wouldn't get so full so quickly.This all comes down to a motility issue, and I'm not sure what else I can do other than everything I'm doing.


anyhow, gonna look into the other types of grass hays, thank you jerseygirl for the links. I also had no idea buns could eat rose petals - whenever he's out for playtime (which is exhausting to him these days) he keeps finding dried up leaves and nibbles on them from fall and hurricane Sandy blowing them in my house (I live in PA) - I have to promptly take them away from him, but he definitely wants the crunchy stuff.

In general I do think he is doing better but this is THE slowest recovery I've ever experienced in any bun in stasis and I've owned buns since I was 12 (I'm gonna be 26 in about a week).

User is Offline lmais
272 posts Send Private Message
11/03/2012 5:05 PM
I was thinking maybe there is either the same or a similar product available in the US/Canada instead. Maybe your vet could get it for you if he knows of one that works well

User is Offline Nova
219 posts Send Private Message
11/03/2012 5:07 PM
hmm..p.s., reading about the pelleted hay without binding agents...

It's for horses, but I also wonder if he'd be getting proper nutrition by eating those. I mean, he seems to have an appetite for his hay, it's just that he gets full very quickly and his gut is just so hypomotile.

I keep wondering if it's even possible for him to ever regain motility again.......

User is Offline Nova
219 posts Send Private Message
11/03/2012 5:08 PM
Imais, my vets have been pretty unhelpful in general, lol.

I'm gonna research the sh*t out of it though, now that I know it exists.

User is Offline lmais
272 posts Send Private Message
11/03/2012 5:14 PM
My regular vet is calling about something with Ruby within the next few days, she's absolutely amazing, I'd trust anything the woman says. I'll be sure to ask her if she knows of any product like that when we speak, and let you know what she says. I'm in Canada, but at least it's a little closer than the UK!

User is Offline jerseygirl
Australia
14759 posts Send Private Message
11/03/2012 7:08 PM

Those hay pellets I only suggest as a way to get fibre into him while in recovery. The fibre length is important so if the hay pellets are over processed and hay milled too fine, it wouldn't be worth it I don't think.
They aren't an outright substitute for pellets but possibly good for rabbits that cannot eat hay.
If you have a good coffee grinder, you could try chop it down at home and add that to a wet pellet mix.  The hay fines at the bottom of a bag wouldn't kill the grinder. Hopefully...

He would have stores within his body of vitamins and minerals to get him by. I'd personally concentrate on weight gain after his gut is functioning better. As he seems to be sensitive, you probably don't want to add rich foods (proteins, carbs) that aid weight gain right now.

I think Sarita has had rabbits take a long time to recover and eat after dental work but they made it. I also know of a lady that kept her rabbit going for 6 years that had a malfunctioning gut. Lots of gut episodes. medicine, dentals, natural foods and heartache but he'd come good again.
Dont think too much about if it's possible. The fact is he is still going. He is eating and pooing some. So just take it day by day. {{{Boon!}}}


User is Offline LittlePuffyTail
New Brunswick, Canada
Forum Leader
11561 posts Send Private Message
11/04/2012 2:16 AM
How is Boon today?

It's possible that he's losing weight due to his teeth needing to be done. That's often a sign that Bindi needs his teeth done.

With regards to your question about the CC, it's recommended to give in 4-6 feedings per day.
Proud to be a Bunny Hugger and a voice for the voiceless
PhotobucketPhotobucketPhotobucket

User is Offline Nova
219 posts Send Private Message
11/04/2012 9:04 AM
Hey guys, thanks for all this help, I appreciate it a lot.

It's very comforting to hear that a bun with such severe GI problems was able to live for at least 5 or so years. I think Boon would be lucky to live that long. the thing is, is that he goes for weeks, sometimes months without a problem at all and a huge appetite.


So I have some good(ish)? news? But I don't want to speak too soon. For the last 2 days, Boon has been willfully drinking, numming hay and veggies, and getting about 20ml of Critical Care a day along with his med routine, and his poops have been RETURNING TO NORMAL!

In size, color, frequency, etc.

I also did a little at home science experiment last night and found that Critical Care IS best for bunnies with clogged up blockages because it comes out of the syringe with ease, while crushed up pellets actually get clogged within the syringe and the water part of the slurry gets pumped out of the syringe instead of the contents. I very much dislike pellets at this time because of that experiment!

So this morning, I woke up to a nice pile of healthy poops in his litterbox, but his tummy was growling and he was passing a lot of gas, so I gave him his regular simethicone and meds, syringed him with some warm water, and reintroduced a tiny fraction of his normal pellets, thinking perhaps his GI tract is just hungry now and needs the gas pushed thru like his normal diet used to be (just with significantly less pellets this time). I gave him no more than maybe a half teaspoon full. He only ate a few of the pellets, but I offered him a small handful of cilantro and he ate all of that.
Now he's sleeping (kinda deeply) again, but the gurgling stopped.

so he either passed the gas or now it's stuck.

He has timothy and oat hay in his litterbox which he hasn't been wanting anything to do with yet today...... and since the teeny bit of pellets and cilantro, no poops since, and that was about an hour ago.

I hope this re-introduction of the tiny amount of pellets didn't set him back or get blocked up. He was doing SO good! Perhaps they are just taking a while to make it thru his GI, and pushing the gas out for now? Thoughts???

User is Offline tanlover14
3391 posts Send Private Message
11/04/2012 1:30 PM
I'm really happy Boon is feeling better and I'll send lots of vibes that he stays on the right track.

What vet did you go see right outside Pittsburgh (If you don't mind me asking)? I live in Pittsburgh and we take our buns to a vet not far outside of it either!

I can give you the name of my vet, she's always willing to e-mail back and forth with me, so maybe she could help you too if you needed? She's EXTREMELY nice and every time I've had a problem she couldn't solve, she'd reach out to other vets and rabbit care-takers to get their thoughts and opinions. (Mainly with my problem with my bun peeing everywhere!).
 photo f7a948e4-51c5-4191-9c54-d543ef2be477_zps834141e2.png

User is Offline Nova
219 posts Send Private Message
11/04/2012 3:37 PM

Hey ya'll! The good exotic vet I saw was Dr. Bennett at a place called All Pets in Gibsonia, PA. It's right outside of Pittsburgh and I know there are two women vets who are great with rabbits too but I wasn't scheduled with them.

I have their business card, they have Dr. Bennett's name listed and two women, I don't remember their names and can't find the card right now ugh

Imais, also let me know what your vet finds out!

Boon's poops turned back into wet sausage poos after I gave him the half teaspoon of pellets, so he's back on just the Critical Care, hay and veggies. ughhhh.  


Is he going to need the Critical Care the rest of his life?! Is he going to get dependent on these meds?

 I mean I am very grateful that he's got his gut recovering..... but I'm really concerned about his nutrition at this point, and scared about tapering him off the meds (when/if he makes a full recovery) and also scared about reintroducing pellets (and whether it will set him back or not).


User is Offline Nova
219 posts Send Private Message
11/05/2012 9:03 AM
so, here's the status on Boon

He has normal bowel sounds and movement. I can feel pelletted stool in his colon. He has been pooping pretty normally *so long as he eats enough solid foods*.... His appetite is on the low side but since I reintroduced a tiny bit of pellets yesterday, it seems he wants more and more, and less to do with the Critical Care, so I'm going to try no Critical Care today and have him on small amounts of pellets (no more than 1/8 cup total per day, as he is 3lbs), greens and of course hay, for today, and see how he does.


This is all very good news, but, also since yesterday, his gut keeps filling up with gas after a long period of time goes between his last "meal" of pellets. For this reason I'm also backing off a little on the greens and just gonna stick with the cilantro. for today. I'm keeping up with the Simethicone, but it seems like the only way the gas really gets pushed out of his gut is when he has a full stomach and the food is literally pushing the gas out of his tummy.


when he was in the thick of it, he would only nibble on hay and greens periodically. It seems now that his gut is moving a little better, he wants more solid food and when he doesn't get too much, he ends up with a lot of gas.


I am still giving him subQ fluids, but less and less each night, encouraging him to drink more on his own. Also, before each pellet feeding, he gets his gas med and 5-10ml syringe of warm water.

So on having him on pellets again as of today, no more than 1/8 cup per day split up into three rations of two teaspoons full (he is 3lbs, and prior to this, he was on twice that much a day).

Next steps, provided this goes well, would be weaning him off the Reglan first (he's been on it since October 25th), then the Cisapride, then getting him on a an occasional regimen of Lactulose per the suggestion of Dana Krempels, then we address his teeth.

That said, he hasn't pooped today but he went all night with no solid food - just hay and water - so I'm just hoping that the reason he hasn't pooped this afternoon is because there was nothing to poop out since he's been on such a minimal diet.

He's farting LOTS since I fed him....really hoping the gas and farting is just being pushed out bc he is now properly digesting his food again what do you guys think?

User is Offline LittlePuffyTail
New Brunswick, Canada
Forum Leader
11561 posts Send Private Message
11/06/2012 12:58 AM
He is certainly a unique case. I'm wondering if he isn't really sensitive to pellets? I know when my buns were getting stasis a lot, decreasing the pellets was really helpful.

I just want you to find a solution for your little guy. Hopefully getting his teeth done will help him out.

(((((Boon))))))
Proud to be a Bunny Hugger and a voice for the voiceless
PhotobucketPhotobucketPhotobucket

User is Offline tanlover14
3391 posts Send Private Message
11/06/2012 9:14 AM
Poor Boon.. Really pushing for your little guy to keep getting better! Hope the good vibes keep helping him!

The vet we take our 3 brats to is right outside Pittsburgh -- in Robinson. Called Robinson Animal Hospital. Her name is Dr. Angela Keffer if you need to take him somewhere ASAP or want more opinions for your boy! She's a really great vet and if you would like her e-mail address I can always put you in contact with her. She's really great and will take phone calls and e-mails.
 photo f7a948e4-51c5-4191-9c54-d543ef2be477_zps834141e2.png

User is Offline Nova
219 posts Send Private Message
11/07/2012 10:09 AM
Hey guys - tan - thank you so much. Yes, if you could inbox me her email I'd love to talk with her about Boon's unique case.I know she would have to actually SEE him, but at this point, Dana Krempels is no longer answering my emails, Boon's exotic vet gave me the go ahead to wean him off the Reglan while keeping him on the Cisapride a while longer. The Reglan was garbage anyway and he's been on it since October 25th-ish? I don't want him to get dependent on it and I just don't think it ever helped him at all. I started him on it BEFORE he went into complete Stasis, during a slowdown, and it did nothing. He didn't start to show signs of improvement until he was started on the Cisapride that we got compounded at a compounding pharmacy. 


so far, he has been stable (ish) for the last 3 days, but still has ups and downs.

I'm thinking the exotic vet suspected Coccidia in Boon because he's on Bactrim. I was doing a lot of research last night and they don't usually RX Bactrim unless they suspect Coccidia. And the protocol for Coccidosis is 14 days of Bactrim - and that's how long he's been on it.

I'm actually HOPING that he DOES have Coccidia because then that might mean that maybe he doesn't have that weird rare neurological genetic disease



Also, he's off subQ fluids for the most part, eating no more than 1/8 cup pellets a day, but occasionally we give him a boost with about 20cc fluids because he is still having isolated incidents of slowdown every day..

In fact he's hunched over right now like his belly hurts.

but he is pooping and eating, and has been for the last 3 days. Usually his poops look normal but a lot of the time they look malformed or wet or weird.


I hope this weaning of Reglan isn't going to set him back..... healing vibes still needed!

Nova <3


User is Offline jerseygirl
Australia
14759 posts Send Private Message
11/07/2012 4:21 PM
but he is pooping and eating, and has been for the last 3 days. Usually his poops look normal but a lot of the time they look malformed or wet or weird.

He's getting there! Continued {{{vibes}}} for the little guy. I think weird poop is to be expected at this point. He would have a lot going on with his system and meds effecting his output too. But (to be ultra basic) stuff going in, stuff coming out is good! :p

There's likely many reasons the vet prescribed Bactrim. Could just be simply the med of choice for that vet because it's proven "tried and true" for them. Could be it has less counter interactions with the motility meds. I think it would have been mainly given to treat toxin-producing bacteria in the gut first and foremost. That it also would treat for coccidia is an added bonus in my mind. I was just looking over info on Medirabbit regarding "megacolon" and coccidiosis is something that would need to be ruled out in making a diagnosis for that syndrome. As far as I understand...
When you next see the vet it could be worth going into this more. Find out if another course of Bactrim would be beneficial once Boon is well past this current episode.

Interesting what you observed with Reglan. I also think this is worth reporting to your vet at the next visit. One of the things I read Reglan does is relax the pyloric sphincter (wiki haha!). As it is thought this part already malfunctions in rabbits with "megacolon" condition, it might be worth noting and may even help in getting more of a diagnosis for Boon.
I'll be interested to hear if you see any significant improvements after he comes off the reglan.

User is Offline LittlePuffyTail
New Brunswick, Canada
Forum Leader
11561 posts Send Private Message
11/08/2012 1:54 AM
I don't have any advice to offer at this point, just want to say I'm still thinking about you guys and hope he's feeling 100% again soon.

(((((Boon))))))
Proud to be a Bunny Hugger and a voice for the voiceless
PhotobucketPhotobucketPhotobucket

User is Offline tanlover14
3391 posts Send Private Message
11/09/2012 7:06 AM
Hey Nova, so I talked to my vet about Boons case and linked her this thread forum post to check out: This was her response:

"I did read a little on the forum about Boon - seems like a tough case. Dr. Bennett is a good vet, though. I usually only give my email to my clients in need, just because it can get overwhelming sometimes. I also do not want to step on any toes since the veterinary world is a small one (if you know what I mean) and it is very hard to recommend treatments to a patient I have not seen. You can let her know that I do usually suggest taking bunnies that have chronic GI stasis off of greens, fruits, and treats completely and sometimes I stop the pellets as well. I like the simethicone and reglan as needed, but I also use a lot of Metacam for pain control. I like Critical Care and SQ fluids a lot for stasis as a preventative. I had a bunny patient that got SQ fluids 2-3 times a week (along with Metacam daily) and it prevented his outbreaks. She is welcome to call and make an appointment with me if she wants another opinion. You are welcome to ask me anything else as well "

-- Hopefully this helps. If you wanna make an appointment here's the website for their bunny clinic:

http://www.gentlevets.com/

And the other info for contacting/reaching them:

Veterinarian - Robinson Twp
412-809-0430
5663 Steubenville Pike
McKees Rocks, PA 15136

She's great with our buns and really loves working with rabbits, so she's always available if you need her! Her name is Angie Keffer. Before I actually made an appt with her, I actually asked for her to call me back via phone so I could talk to her about the experience with neutering and spaying and such so if you really don't want to make an appt you may be able to do something like that first and see where it takes you!
 photo f7a948e4-51c5-4191-9c54-d543ef2be477_zps834141e2.png

User is Offline Nova
219 posts Send Private Message
11/11/2012 9:20 PM
Heya gang,
Boon is down to less than half his dosage of Reglan per day, still on Cisapride & BeneBac, eating 1/8 cup pellets a day plus hay and a small bit of cilantro here and there and is pooping okay. He will be on the Bactrim for another 3 days. He is pooping normally with a good appetite but oddly in the afternoon he gets a real bad slowdown for a good 5 hours and won't be interested in any type of food. Very strange, but it passes.
I think the periodic subQ fluids might help prevent a full blown issue and is a brilliant idea.
at anyrate, Dr. Bennett called and said I could certainly taper the Reglan....he should be off it in a few days.....then taper the Cisapride. But I would really like some kind of help with management of this disease (read on). Additionally, Boon developed a hard, mishapen mass in his skin near his ribcage, feels like scar tissue or something. I can move it around. And Dr. Bennett said that only one of his molars is overgrown, but it definitely needs addressed when he gets stable again.

tanlover, thank you SO much for talking to your vet about Boon. I do believe that awareness of this rare but terrible condition may someday help contribute to better care and for these wonderful animals to have the longest, happiest life they possibly can. 


Dr. Keffer's ideas sound like they will be very helpful. I will have Boon on subQ fluids at least 2-3 times per week to help manage his condition. The Critical Care is great when things slow down, I agree. I'm very impressed with Dr. Keffer's cooperation and reaching out to help. Please let her know how grateful I am. I will definitely consider making an appointment with her if I have any troubles.


While I agree, Dr. Bennett is great, I now know that there are other great veterinarians out there. Though, when I spoke to Dr. Bennett about megacolon, he told me that Boon's colon didn't appear to be enlarged, but he is bewildered as to why he is so prone to stasis and has all the typical signs of cow poop syndrome, so he did not rule out the megacolon possibility. Though, I am not sure if he knows the distinction between megacolon in cats and cow pile syndrome in rabbits. He did mention that megacolon in cats presents with a swollen colon. In rabbits, according tot he article in the link provided below, there were some very interesting findings on this condition.

This all sparked an exhaustive research endeavor conducted by myself, heh. What I found, made my heart sink. I am trying to come to terms with Boon's poor general prognkosis.

Here's the article:
http://en.allexperts.com/q/Rabbits-703/2009/11/Abnormal-Rabbit-Poos-Cow.htm
I'm going to print it off and bring it to my local rabbit-wise vet (I reserve Dr. Bennett for complicated emergencies as the Pittsburgh/Robinson/Gibsonia area is almost 2 hours away) and also eventually Dr. Bennett. If Dr. Keffer is still following this thread, I think she might find this link also helpful.
It explains the presentation, typical signs and symptoms of "cow pile syndrome" or megacolon in rabbits, she describes how she and her colleague manages the condition, and its general prognosis (which was quite upsetting to me).
She said it is essentially the same phenomenon as Lethal White Overo Syndrome in horses.
Boon's poops, when he is doing "good", do often look malformed. Not every poop, but many.

So after having read that article, and the email from Dr. Keffer, I would like to approach Boon's condition in a similar fashion as what is recommended by the article and dr. Keffer.

- subQ fluids couple times per week (about 30cc for Boon, he is 3lbs....but when he is dehydrated needs like 50-80cc)
- Lactulose: I have this on hand at 10 grams per 15 mL.... but I don't know how many mL to give him? and how often? It is used as a preventive.
- Strict diet of mostly hay and no more than 1/8 cup pellets divided up into 3 rations per day
- I will only resort to the mineral oil if I'm making up an enema
- On Thursday, when Boon sees our local vet, she is going to have a tech teach us how to administer an enema and she is also going to examine the mass/growth under his skin. I'll also ask her what she thinks of the article and the Lactulose as a preventive.

Unfortunately these are all supportive measures as there seems to be no treatment for Lethal White Overo Syndrome / megacolon / cow pie syndrome / whatever you want to call it.

I feel rather shocked by this. Really saddened. I sat on the floor doing some work from home, leaning up against the couch whileBoon was having playtime, and he kept binkying up onto the couch and reaching over to my head and giving me kisses on my cheek. I kept welling up with tears. I really hope I can give Boon the longest, happiest life possible.


Also, you guys might find this interesting but one of Boon's siblings - one that looks like him - has gone into his second bout of stasis since they were born this week as well. Fortunately, this bout didn't last more than about 3 days and he has made a good  speedy recovery, but he is also afflicted with chronic Snuffles, something which Boon only deals with occasionally. These poor babies. whoever breeded them needs a swift kick, but I don't regret one moment with them.

I'm totally going to be making a Youtube channel in honor of Boon and all bunnies afflicted with his condition and try to educate and bring awareness to it as much as possible...

thoughts???


Boon licking his paws as usual 




User is Offline LittlePuffyTail
New Brunswick, Canada
Forum Leader
11561 posts Send Private Message
11/12/2012 1:26 AM
Awww....what a cute picture!!

I think it's great that you are doing so much research and trying to spread awareness. The internet can be exhausting and in doing research on my own ill rabbits has often made me feel very negative and sad about certain health situations but remember not to take everything you read to heart. Boon seems to be a unique case so don't tell yourself that he's guaranteed to have a shorter life span.

Do you know if any of his siblings from the same litter are afflicted with symptoms like Boon? Is the vet going to look into the hard mass you mentioned?

((((((Sending my love to Boon))))))))
Proud to be a Bunny Hugger and a voice for the voiceless
PhotobucketPhotobucketPhotobucket

User is Offline jerseygirl
Australia
14759 posts Send Private Message
11/12/2012 7:06 AM
LPT, didn't Bindi get something like that after the SubQ fluids recently?

User is Offline Nova
219 posts Send Private Message
11/12/2012 8:47 AM
Well sorry for writing again so soon but I woke up a few hours ago to find some diarrhea in his bed.

This is *probably* my fault, as I gave him 1/10th of a dose of Lactulose (Generlac) yesterday when he slowed down in the afternoon.It's an osmotic laxative supposedly safe for well hydrated bunnies with cow poop syndrome...but ehhh?


I HOPE that's why he had diarrhea this morning anyway!!! So no more Lactulose for him. Even though I gave him a teeny dose. It may work for other cow poop bunnies, but I think it gave him diarrhea.

LPT - I agree, the internet can be info overload and it's really getting me down.
He has two siblings *that I know of*. I rescued them along with my local rescue owner, when they were infants from a pet store. They should not have been for sale, they were too young, barely eating pellets. Anywho, there was Boon, Angus (who looks like Boon) and Holly, who is brown and white but looks like Boon in the facial structure and behavior. Holly has no health problems that I know of. Angus has had at least two severe Stasis episodes, Boon has had about 4, and they were born September 2011. Angus deals with chronic Snuffles and Boon gets it occasionally and mildly. The rescue owner decided to keep Angus as a sanctuary bun due to his proneness to Stasis, and paired him with a female who also has chronic Snuffles. She is aware of all this and basically all of my own research for Boon will be benefitting Angus too. Angus is doing good now.

jerseygirl - I have been giving Boon his subQ fluids on his backside, but this kind of, growth or mass, it's small and irregular and it's located dead center just below his ribcage in his skin.... if it were on his back, I'd definitely be panicking about abscess, but because it is where it is, I am not sure. So the vet will be ooking at it on Thursday.

any thoughts on the diarrhea? The Lactulose I gave him was a very small amount, given yesterday afternoon when he slowed down... I really hope it's the Lactulose giving him diarrhea cause that will be easily corrected. I hope it's not the Bactrim or another bout of Stasis coming up here.

Giving him his Benebac and some subQ fluids in light of the diarrhea episode.

User is Offline bmt87
309 posts Send Private Message
11/12/2012 9:00 AM
vibes to Boon - i didn't realize how scary this all was until my bun had a bout of stasis for the first time this weekend. hang in there - boon has such a loving mommy!
Photobucket

User is Offline tanlover14
3391 posts Send Private Message
11/13/2012 5:29 AM
Continued vibes for Boon! And absolutely no problem talking to my vet about Boon's case -- I really wanted to help in any way possible since I'm sure some day I will have a bunny health issue and would really appreciate the same kind of help if needed. With three bunnies I feel I am doomed to have a problem at some point! I'm glad you're doing so much for this little guy, he's beyond lucky to have such a good bunny momma!!

Keep your strength up with him, I'm glad you're not letting it all hinder your helping him in the best way possible.
 photo f7a948e4-51c5-4191-9c54-d543ef2be477_zps834141e2.png

User is Offline lmais
272 posts Send Private Message
11/13/2012 6:11 AM
Sent you a PM with what my vet spoke to me about (It's a novel... I didn't want to repost here). I just wanted to add, I did mention that you had noticed he had diarrhea after the lactulose treatment - she said this is very common, even in the prescribed doses, especially for little guys like Boon.

(((((((more vibes for Boon and his momma))))))))

User is Offline LittlePuffyTail
New Brunswick, Canada
Forum Leader
11561 posts Send Private Message
11/15/2012 2:11 AM
Jersey- Bindi developed what looked and felt like a water bubble that got infected. It wasn't hard, it felt like a balloon filled with water. What that was is still a mystery.

(((((Boon))))
Proud to be a Bunny Hugger and a voice for the voiceless
PhotobucketPhotobucketPhotobucket

User is Offline Nova
219 posts Send Private Message
11/16/2012 9:06 PM
Hi guys!!!

This is gonna be quick, because for some reason I can't get my computer to respond to my Private Messages. For those of you who have helped give me some resourceful info...thank you!

Currently Boon's normal fecals are actually more on the slow side of things but they are looking more normal everyday.

He is still having bouts of diarrhea *at night only* - I wake up to a small puddle of watery stuff on his bed --- and I have come to the conclusion that this is runny cecotropes!!! Yay me I think I figured this out. Anywho, talked to my local vet and she said she thinks maybe the Bactrim threw off his normal intestinal flora. So we are hoping that with the help of some BeneBac and time off the Bactrim, his cecotropes will find their bacteria balance. 

He has been off the Reglan for about 3 days, I tapered him off. His night cecotrope diarrhea started about 4 days ago?

I really hope he doesn't have a secondary infection like C. Diff from the Bactrim he was on it the full course.

In the next few days we are going to try to taper him off the Cisapride - in a few days anyway. If he continues to have watery cecortropes though , I am guessing he will need even more appointments.

The weird lumpy area is believed to be a vein, but this was determined by a vet tech, not the vet, so I don't know yet. We have decided to give Boon a rest for the holidays provided he continues to be stable

His current regime is.... subQ fluids a couple times per week (10ml per pound of body weight), no more than 1/8 cup pellets (per 5lbs of body weight) divided into 3rations per day, never ending hay and daily benebac.

We did cut out greens from his diet in light of the gas.


A few folks mentioned removing pellets altogether might have helped, but when we did that he became full of gas and could not eat enough hay to keep his nutrition up. So we are keeping on a very small amount of pellets per day. 


He is still kind of gassy but not as much, and he's been binkying and zooming around the room!

Continued vibes please... my biggest fear is that his next stasis may be his last. Or that his liver might fail or something. So yes many vibes needed! and will try to respond later to PMs and keep you all updated!!!



User is Offline LittlePuffyTail
New Brunswick, Canada
Forum Leader
11561 posts Send Private Message
11/17/2012 1:36 AM
Yay for normal looking poops, binkies and zooms!!!! From my experience with Bindi, who's been through a lot of pretty serious health problems, when he's feeling better from an illness that's when he does his most crazy binkies and zooms. Like he's just full of energy and feeling so good he doesn't know what to do with himself.

Def keep us updated. ((((((Boon))))))
Proud to be a Bunny Hugger and a voice for the voiceless
PhotobucketPhotobucketPhotobucket

User is Offline tanlover14
3391 posts Send Private Message
11/17/2012 5:27 AM
Continued vibes for Boon! Glad to hear he's feeling good enough to binky and zooms!
 photo f7a948e4-51c5-4191-9c54-d543ef2be477_zps834141e2.png

User is Offline Nova
219 posts Send Private Message
12/01/2012 10:28 AM
Hi my binky friends,

There had been no news in the last few weeks because it was ALL GOOD NEWS! Boon was doing wonderful indeed.

But as of the last few days he is back into a stasis which I saw coming as I check his belly everyday and I felt a bubbly lump in his abdomen. He's had a "bulge" like this before and it was during his last Stasis. I thought perhaps it was just a big gas bubble, and he had this big "lump" during his last bad bout of Stasis. He also had one of these "bubbles" about 2 wks ago and I got it to go away by promptly administering subQ fluids and substituting his pellets for Critical Care.


So.... how did this stasis happen... I have been back tracking the whole week....

Earlier in the week (today is Saturday) we switched him from the Oxbow young oat hay to his usual Mature Oat which we always gave him before, which has less seedheads for me to pick out, but has been out of stock for the whole season.

It might just be a coincidence, but after we did this I felt another bubble lump in his tummy and his gut went into a stasis. He had been on the young oat all summer because the mature oat ran out of stock, and he always did the best on mature oat because the young oat has the seedheads..... but, he did okay on both young and mature oat, really.He gets Timothy even tho I am terribly allergic to it. Oat is good for stasis prone buns, molts, and ppl who are allergic to timothy.


anywho - I don't know if switching his hay caused a temporary imbalance, or if I should just go back to feeding him young oat, or if the hay isn't really that big of a deal at all.

But I guess right now what matters most is that he is back in GI stasis ever since we switched back to the mature oat hay earlier in the week, so tonight I'm switching him back to the young oat. I also have him on subQ fluids and Critical Care as by now he has no appetite at all and his belly just feels limp and doughey.

I hear hardly any bowel sounds.

He is also getting some Timothy hay which I am deathly allergic to but I'm sucking it up for his sake.

It's strange how this Stasis occurred. Whch is a terrible tragedy because it means, to me, that he truly does have a neurological gut motility problm as he did not bloat up-- his gut just went limp and doughey and he stopped pooping, his appetite went low and then to just hay and then no appetite at all. When the tummy just goes doughey and limp, it means there is no GI activity and it also means dehydration.

Last night I thought we avoided a full blown stasis because the lump went away, his belly felt hydrated, he was POOPING normal poops and eating and I was hearing bowel sounds with my stethoscope so I re-introduced pellets and then....bam, this morning, he's in a full blown stasis.

This morning his belly is back to feeling limp and doughey except for that damnable bulge of what feels like gas or a mass. (a very doughey mass, not really a hard one). He's not pooping at all today. The bulge is in the same place as the day before yesterday.

when he went through his biggest bout of Stasis this past October, he had a bulgey lump in his belly just like this as he was making a recovery from being all bloated up....except it wasn't in the same place. It was on the left where his stomach is. This time it's more toward the right.

If he doesn't make some improvements by tonight I have no choice but to put him back on Cisapride, which I hate doing. Even our exotic vet said he doesn't like to see Boon on Cisapride all the time. It's been 3 weeks since I tapered him off all motility meds and I am really going to hate to have to put him back on them.
ps, I'm not pissing with the reglan anymore, I don't like it and I don't think it's effective. I've even read where it speeds the motility of liquids while slowing the motility of solids.

Prayers, vibes and good healing thoughts for Boon much needed again.

User is Offline tanlover14
3391 posts Send Private Message
12/01/2012 11:30 AM
POOR BOON BOY! Ugh, you guys have really had a tough go of this.

Much vibes for you both and I'm so proud of you for sticking through this with your bun boy and giving him the proper care he needs!
 photo f7a948e4-51c5-4191-9c54-d543ef2be477_zps834141e2.png

User is Offline LittlePuffyTail
New Brunswick, Canada
Forum Leader
11561 posts Send Private Message
12/02/2012 12:39 PM
I'm so very sorry to hear this. I truly, truly wish there was something I could do or say to help you out with Boon. I know how much you love him.

What has your vet said about that mass you are mentioning?

(((((Boon)))))) I"m thinking about you, little guy!
Proud to be a Bunny Hugger and a voice for the voiceless
PhotobucketPhotobucketPhotobucket

User is Offline Nova
219 posts Send Private Message
12/03/2012 9:22 PM
Thanks binkies... for those of you following, praying and vibing and pulling for Boon.

By the time I get Boon to the vet, the "bulge" that I feel in his belly goes away. It's happened three times since October and every time was either toward the end of, or at the beginning of, a bout of stasis.

The bulge is now gone, too.

I don't know if it's gas or gas surrounding an impaction, but whatever it was, he passed it a few days ago...

But he is left  in a state of bad hypomotility. His abdomen constantly feels doughey (which indicates hypomotility and sometimes dehydration so I am keeping up with the fluids too). He seems like he is gassy or uncomfortable at random times through the day. Switching back to young oat hay didn't help, so the issue is not the hay. It's like when I work the bulge out, and the bulge goes away it leaves his gut in this hypomotile state. He is not in a complete Stasis, meaning he is still eating and pooping, just not very much. His appetite is still low, and he still slows down with his poops the second I try to give him even a teeny bit of pellets..... and if he goes too long without a substantial amount of Critical Care then he slows down from going hungry (and his belly being empty). 


It is safe to say that he has little interest in pellets now when he used to have a huge appetite for them in the past (although I still only rationed no more than the recommended minimum amount daily).


So right now I'd say his condition is somewhat "stable" but his biggest problem is severe hypomotility and low appetite (wants little to do with pellets often - yet he will go through these stints during the day where he wants pellets terribly and is ravenously hungry for them).


His energy is great, he binkies around, just has these constant ups and downs all day long with his poop production and appetite. It seems - pellets make everything so much worse, I want to eliminate them completely, but don't know how to supplement his nutrition and keep contents in his gut, as, he doesn't eat enough hay to keep his belly full.

I think in general, ever since Boon got neutered his Stasis problems have become chronic. I don't know if there is a correlation or not.

Perhaps hormones?


I am beginning to wonder about his teeth even more - despite the exotic vet saying that only one of his front molars was "very slightly overgrown," it seems that Boon's appetite is very good for hay, veggies, and sometimes he even willingly sucks down his Critical Care, but once I try to reintroduce pellets, he goes after them quite strongly only to stop eating them halfway through - and I only give him a teaspoon full 3 times a day!


Of course if it is his teeth causing these problems, then maybe pellets aren't the problem, but he is so young to have dental issues and the vet said his teeth looked good with the exception of a slightly overgrown front pre-molar.


Prior to getting neutered, when his bouts of Stasis were only occasional, his appetite was HUGE. I'd have to ration his pellets as he would eat them too fast. So it is not normal for Boon to get full so quickly and for him to be uninterested in pellets while eating everything else willingly.

I haven't started him back on the Cisapride yet. I am just not comfortable with him being on it so much, and he IS pooping and eating/drinking - just not his pellets. Err, well, whenever he does eat his pellets it *usually* causes a problem....


Guess my next step is to have his teeth grinded, but I worry about the condition he is in to have that done, AND to figure out how to remove pellets from his diet without starving him to death...but again.... I would rather not have to remove pellets from his diet. He is so skinny these days. *sigh* Maybe if this issue is currently, his teeth , then pellets won't be a problem. I just dont know.


I worry how to get him his proper nutrition as he cannot live in hay alone. He only gets greens occasionally as they tend to give him gas. I've been supplementing his hay and what little bit of pellets he does eat here and there with Critical Care, but he can't live on Critical Care/hay  alone.


Any ideas on how to get a good diet plan going for a bunny who just cannot tolerate pellets in their diet? Because that is what this has seemingly become - he just can't seem to digest pellets anymore....

User is Offline Nova
219 posts Send Private Message
12/03/2012 9:58 PM
Hmm... on that note... while I have read this article before, it does seem to apply to the situation *now*.....
http://www.bio.miami.edu/hare/dental.html

"If your bunny is showing any signs such as

Drooling
Runny eyes
Eagerly going to food, but then acting unwilling to actually take it into the mouth
Gradual (or sudden) change in dietary habits (e.g., refusing to eat pellets, but happy to eat hay--or the other way around!)
Unusual eating habits, such as a willingness to eat only one or two food items, and rejecting other types.
excessive drinking (this also can be a sign of renal disease, but rabbits with sore mouths will sometimes drink constantly in an attempt to soothe a sore mouth)"

then she recommends a dental checkup as the dental issues can be the problem here. Of these symptoms, the only one Boon has is the "sudden change in dietary habits" - basically not want much pellets all of a sudden (despite being a little piggy for them the rest of his life) but happily eating lots of hay. and drinking lots of water. Not real excessive, but lots.

User is Offline LittlePuffyTail
New Brunswick, Canada
Forum Leader
11561 posts Send Private Message
12/04/2012 1:47 AM
It really could be his teeth. Chronic stasis can be a symptom. Did your vet just look in his mouth with an otoscope? Sometimes the bunny needs to be sedated for the vet to have a good look and see what's really going on. The back teeth are so hard to see.

In the meantime, have you ever tried wetting his pellets? This is how I feed Bindi now since he eats his pellets so fast they get stuck in his throat. I just put a bit of warm water on the pellets, enough so they bloat and puff up. I think he really enjoys them especially since it's a nice warm treat on a chilly morning. If Boons teeth are bothering him, this might entice him to eat pellets.
Proud to be a Bunny Hugger and a voice for the voiceless
PhotobucketPhotobucketPhotobucket

User is Offline MimzMum
Interior Alaska
7887 posts Send Private Message
12/04/2012 10:20 AM
Kind of new to this thread but I haven't read it all yet...did you say you had cisapride? (I assume this is comparable to metaclopromide)...a gut motility drug?
Mimzy was on metaclopromide to keep his gut going through his head tilt. He used it for almost five months. I've now weaned him off it and he does fine. If you bun needs help emptying his gut cisapride should be fine to use till you ascertain the cause of Boon's stasis.
When this bulge appears...is it soft or hard? Has a mass been ruled out? Boon is a boy, yes? I've heard of females getting surgical adhesions after spays but not males, since there is less invasive technique employed in a neuter.
Is some kind of fluid regimen continuing? He may need more sub q fluids to keep his blood volume stable if he's still not eating.

I hope if it's a dental problem he can have it sorted soon. ((((((((Hugs))))))))

Lots of healing vibes for Boon. ((((((((((((((Vibes)))))))))))
 photo 3ca1b95d-0cfb-478a-9ea7-bfc6fff29518_zpsa40198b1.jpg

User is Offline MimzMum
Interior Alaska
7887 posts Send Private Message
12/04/2012 2:37 PM
Okay...I just went through the whole thread quickly. It sounds very much like dysautonomia, a condition where toxins that build up from low gut motility cause neurological damage to the digestive tract in rabbits. The mass you feel may be his cecum not emptying properly, which would explain the dysbiosis and the painful gut that causes Boon not only to not want to eat but eliminate as well. He isn't taking in enough nutrients to maintain his weight. This can also affect his moulting.
If you bring this up with your vet perhaps treatment can be adjusted. Gut motility drugs would still be needed along with metacam for pain relief and reducing inflammation.
Someone I know through another forum saw this condition begin in her rabbit at about six weeks of age. He lived to be six years old.
She also provided him with wild forage foods to keep his gut regular. Since she lives in the UK the items she used don't necessarily grow here but I think you can find dried forms. I would suggest pesticide free dandelion for a start but his difficulty staying hydrated might be further hindered by the diuretic herb.
If you'd like I'll try to find the info and PM you with it.

I hope Boon and you are able to have a more relaxed day today. (((((((((((((((((Vibes))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
 photo 3ca1b95d-0cfb-478a-9ea7-bfc6fff29518_zpsa40198b1.jpg

User is Offline Nova
219 posts Send Private Message
12/04/2012 9:02 PM

While I feel that his frequent bouts of stasis are neurological in nature, I feel this this *current issue* of his doughey empty tummy and inappetance (except for hay and water) is most definitely due to dental problems at this point. Perhaps not his other stasis episodes, but this severe hypomotility episode is definitely linked to what seems to me to be tooth and jaw pain.


I figured it out when he refuses his pellets YET he basically sucks down the Critical Care and plows into his hay like a ravenous little pig  like he was starving to death and after he did, he was pooping normally and his belly didn't fell doughey and empty. His bowel sounds came back.

 I offered him his teaspoon of pellets again, and, again, he only took two bites and then huddled up in pain, grinding his teeth.


I took the advice here and wetted down his teaspoon of pellets with a couple drops of warm water, waited until they become fluffy (but not mushy)  and he ATE THEM ALL! He will only eat things that are soft right now ... and hay. 


Our next move is a tooth trimming for sure!


MimzMom: Thank you for providing me with this helpful info! I think the idea is a good one as boon does seem to be struggling with a genetic and/or neurological GI dysmotility problem. The lump was not where his cecum was but much higher up and it was not firm but doughey, almost like a large bubble of gas or fluid. It is definitely passed now, though. I really want to get him on a good diet and routine because of his chronic bouts of full blown Stasis (unlike now, this week, where he is inappetant and in a state of hypomotility - he IS pooping and eating, but can only tolerate soft foods).


User is Offline tanlover14
3391 posts Send Private Message
12/05/2012 7:22 AM
I'm so glad to hear that wetting the pellets has been helping him eat! I'm glad you've kept researching his problems or you may never have realized that it was his teeth that could be possibly causing this trouble! Definitely sending more vibes to your boy.

As for gaining weight, someone can interject as this is nothing but a thought, but could switching him to Alfalfa hay/pellets help him gain weight again? Since he's lost so much. I have no medical advice or anything suggesting this -- I'm only thinking since you give them these to help them put on weight to grow when babies that he may help him gain some more weight so he's not skinny? I have no idea as I've never been through anything like this but thought maybe doing this would make a little sense? Thoughts, opinions?
 photo f7a948e4-51c5-4191-9c54-d543ef2be477_zps834141e2.png

User is Offline LittlePuffyTail
New Brunswick, Canada
Forum Leader
11561 posts Send Private Message
12/06/2012 1:45 AM
I'm also glad Boon likes the puffed-up pellets.


(((((Boon)))))))
Proud to be a Bunny Hugger and a voice for the voiceless
PhotobucketPhotobucketPhotobucket

User is Offline Nova
219 posts Send Private Message
12/07/2012 6:51 PM
Hi guys,

so Boon saw the vet yesterday and when I told her that Dr. Bennett's limited view of his mouth revealed some overgrown molars, combined with the fact that he'd eat hay but not pellets, prompted her to put him completely under general anesthesia and do a thorough oral exam.

She said she doesn't really think it is his teeth causing him to have a low appetite - because there was no evidence of inflammation or irritation/lesions -

BUT

She did trim down the molars that were slightly overgrown. I'm really kind of crushed. I was hoping that his dental issues could have been causing this recent bout of..... being real picky with his food and general inappetance.

Oh, and the General Anesthesia caused him to go into Stasis so he is now on Cisapride, fluids, etc, too. *tears my hair out* He's pooping malformed mucusy poos ever since the surgery ..... he's still taking the Critical Care but now he's being picky about hay AND pellets.

Is this normal/to be expected after a molar trim???????

Do you think that he could have been not wanting his pellets even if the teeth weren't that bad?????

I REALLY hope this can help resolve the problem. I don't want to believe his genetic disease is THIS bad....

Hopefully this Stasis was just brought on by the anesthesia. I'd think it'd have worn off by now. It was done a little over 24 hours ago.

Thoughts & vibes ...and thanks ya'll..for following Boon's journey...need all the thoughts and vibes I can get here.

User is Offline LittlePuffyTail
New Brunswick, Canada
Forum Leader
11561 posts Send Private Message
12/08/2012 1:38 AM
I'm sorry. I was really hoping it was a simple teeth issue as well.

It's normal for poos to be a little strange (mushy, small and/or unformed) after anaesthetic. This usually resolves after a couple of days.

Some bunnies are very sensitive and show symptoms even if there teeth really aren't that bad.

He really is a mystery. I hope things get sorted out very soon. (((((Boon))))))
Proud to be a Bunny Hugger and a voice for the voiceless
PhotobucketPhotobucketPhotobucket

User is Offline BB
San Francisco Area
Forum Leader
8672 posts Send Private Message
12/08/2012 8:31 PM
Rucy was one of those bunnies that was very sensitive to having spurs on her molars. Even my rabbit savvy vet would look at her teeth sometimes and say, well there are some spurs there, but nothing terrible. Yet Rucy would have problems chewing or she'd get a wet chin. My vet also confirmed that some bunnies just are more sensitive with teeth issues. And Rucy would always do better after the soreness of the tooth trim wore off.

My vet would send us home with pain meds for the first day after the tooth trim as Rucy's mouth always seemed a bit sore for the next day after surgery
I would also have critical care just in case she was too sore to chew.

How is Boon doing now?

User is Offline Cutelittlebun
19 posts Send Private Message
12/10/2012 8:24 AM
Wow, I just saw this post (I'm new to this website)... My thoughts are with your little furry friend!

My friend (Hazel) is currently going through a LOT of the same things that you discussed in this thread. She is 8 years old, and was diagnosed with an upper respiratory infection a few weeks ago that we have been treating with Metacam and Baytril. She lost weight and last week had x-rays & bloodwork... and is now being treated for stasis in addition. The vet wanted to put her on Reglan, but ended up with a different drug instead (I forget the name at the moment). The last couple days she has started to be interested in food again, but I am taking it one day at a time, and staying optimistic.

Best wishes with your bunny! He is ADORABLE. ~~~good vibes to him!~~~

User is Offline Nova
219 posts Send Private Message
12/10/2012 11:44 AM
Hi guys...thank you for checking in and continuing to follow Boon through his journey.

Ever since he went under anesthesia last week for his teeth he has been going through Stasis and then hypomotility every day. Then again, not too much different from before he had his teeth trimmed. His belly is still constantly doughey, although I have been reintroducing pellets into his diet little bits at a time and now that his teeth are trimmed, he is eating the pellets, but not very much of them - as he is so often constipated. Being cautious with it.

He'll be in stasis for the better part of 8-10 hours of the day, then usually at some point he perks up, his belly feels firm and normal, he poops and eats again (water, hay, veggies, Critical Care and a wee bit of pellets).

He was started back onto the Cisapride yesterday - and I intend to keep him on this for a long time. This concerns me. Is this okay? The pharmacist said that other animals are often on this drug for "the rest of their lives." Heart sink! I also don't understand why it's not helping at this point, but maybe I haven't given it enough time (about 24 hours so far). I was Googling "how long does it take Cisapride to work?" and found something I really didn't want to read on a cat forum:

(**this was from a CAT forum, ignore the advice..I'm just concerned about the boldened part of what was said**)

"The med usually takes about 2-3 days at least to notice change. He may be foaming because of the taste. I offer a half teaspoon of wet cat food immediately after dosing, and my cat completely forget what just happened. If you have been prescribed Cisapride, you may always have to keep an eye out for bowel changes - my guy has been on this med off and on for 8 years. The last time he went off for 2 months, and his intestines swelled up and were painful. Now he also gets a sprinkle of unflavored Metamucil in a spoonful of wet food every day - just to help keep things moving. If he hasn't had a bowel movement in the next 24 hours, the vet may have to give an enema - a very unpleasant situation for both of you . . ."

I really hope that his being on Cisapride so much in his first year of life didn't cause a dependence or worse, cause this problem to worsen as it has.

That said, this constant hypomotility issue occured after his last bout of true bloat which occurred in the end of October. One of the vets prescribed him some Bactrim after that bout of bloat because his poops were covered in very thick smelly mucus indicating a lot of bad bacterial overgrowth. He got better, but then, his night cecals turned to water (diarrhea) while his regular poops stayed the same. I am now wondering if perhaps his long time on the Bactrim caused him to devlop C. Diff infection, or some other intestinal imbalance so tomorrow night we are dropping off a stool sample to our local vet, as his night cecals are still watery.


I mentioned this " cecal diarrhea" problem in this thread a few pages back - its onset was on his last day of the Bactrim and it has not gotten better since. Also, when I feel his cecum, it feels like it is full of water. Very gross feeling and sounding.


He is also very lethargic most of the day. My poor baby. he just never feels well ever since being neutered. He was neutered Sept 21, his hormones hung around til the end of October which is when he went into a molt and a bloat and he has just been hypomotile and sick every since.

I wonder if maybe the hormonal drop caused this..I don't know...driving myself nuts wondering why? why? why?


This whole thing is making me truly depressed in a very literal sense of the word. I'd get on some antidepressants if I weren't already on them. ha! they don't work when your baby is sick.

Any thoughts on the possible cecal problem being C. Diff? Can this happen from BActrim? He is on BeneBac daily. He does get a stuffy/runny nose and snuffles when he is not feeling well. (oh, and yesterday he was molting).

Cutelittlebun: Keep bun hydrated and don't forget when bun is ready to be off the Reglan, to wean him off slowly so he doesn't have rebound problems. I've fostered bunnies with Snuffle problems and unfortunately, systemic antibiotics (antibiotics taken by mouth) never helped them. What helped them was something called VetRX Rabbit Remedy. It is also used in the ears to treat mites. may want to check it out if bun's snuffles doesn't improve after a month or so of being on the Baytril.
Also try to use Metacam sparingly as it can irritate the tummy with chronic use.

advice, experiences, thoughts, vibes, needed & appreciated.


User is Offline Nova
219 posts Send Private Message
12/10/2012 9:15 PM
Sorry to make another post. If anyone is still following.... I was reading up on the prokinetic drugs such s Cisapride and Metoproclamide (Reglan). I don't like Reglan as it was never effective for Boon. Cisapride was amazingly effective during his stasis episodes in his first year of life, but ever since his neuter in September he's been in a state of severe hypomotility and having daily episodes of stasis and the Cisapride doesn't seem to be helping anymore.

As I was doing my research, I came across this, but it's regarding megacolon in cats:

"CIsapride is the most effective medical therapy for megacolon in cats. The colon in cats with megacolon may even resume normal diameter radiographically under treatment with Cisapride. Unfortunately, megacolon commonly becomes refractory to Cisapride after several months of therapy, necessitating increasing the dosage[…]. Eventually after several months to years, many cats with megacolon become completely refractory to Cisapride and require colectomy."

I never had Boon on Cisapride for longer than 2-3 weeks a few times during the year and his longest time was his last big bloat in late October where he was on the Cisapride for about an entire month.

I reinstated it yesterday and he is just constantly severely hypomotile with complete stasis setting in daily.He does seem to perk up a little at night, and eat more and pass some stools. My hopes go up and get crushed very quickly and frequently.


I'm just a right mess over this. He's seen many veterinarians, and one exotic specialist who refuses to see him anymore because I supposedly made too many cancellations (I only cancelled once). Vets are stumped. Aren't telling me whether or not to put him to sleep or giving me any hope or direction of what to do to make him comfortable or help his condition.

Boon's been acting real frustrated with everything and lethargic. I'm either syringe feeding him to supplement his poor appetite or jabbing him with subQ fluid needles but tonight I just held him and sang to him and talked to him and loved him.

Been crying so much... so depressed... he's my baby.


Dropping off his stool samples tomorrow.... will let you all know what the results are...but I really need some hugs



User is Offline LittlePuffyTail
New Brunswick, Canada
Forum Leader
11561 posts Send Private Message
12/11/2012 1:29 AM
I'm so sorry things are at this point. I can understand how you are feeling. There is nothing worse than feeling helpless with our babies. You are doing everything you can and he is truly lucky to have such care and love. I wish with all my heart I could help you and little Boon. ****Big Bunny Hugs**** I'm always here for you.
Proud to be a Bunny Hugger and a voice for the voiceless
PhotobucketPhotobucketPhotobucket

User is Offline hopsalot
38 posts Send Private Message
12/11/2012 2:45 AM
Hi Nova

I just read this thread, and I also want to say that I'm thinking of you and your bun child. ((((((Pie and I are sending you good vibes as you read this)))))).

I am no Vet, and I don't have the knowledge to offer a suitable opinion or advice, but in overview I think that there are so many factors that could be involved, and just like humans each bun responds to treatment or complications in it's own way. It seems like the symptoms and causes of illness are going about in circles, like in the case of the dental check up under anaesthetics that was the cause for concern, but the anaestetics causing another bout of stasis.

Please know that in my heart there is a special place for bunnies and their dedicated owners, such as you and everyone else who are supporting you and your bun in this forum - and even more so for bunnies who struggle with gastric stasis, however many times in their lives.

When I demanded to bring Pie home from ICU against the doctor's will, she was not fine. One of the most important people in healing my Pie told me to stop crying and to stop treating Pie like a bunny on it's death bed. I got into the car and on the way home I told her how proud I am of her beating that gastric stasis, and how we are going to play on the grass outside and be amongst familiar sounds and sleep in our familiar bed. She got better, with a lot of coaching and many nights spent sleeping next to her on the carpet telling her that she IS fine, instead of going to be fine. In retrospect, I believe that what I said in that car and the tone of my voice played a pivotal role in beating gastric stasis. Some might agree, some might not. But this was something I could believe in - something to hold on to when I cried, spent frustrating hours reading about symptoms and treatments; felt helpless and heartbroken. You too have something to believe in.

Therefore, in having no medical advice for you, I contribute faith and lots of it. I believe that the circles will turn into something better soon. NEVER give up. You guys ARE making it together (instead of can make it together).

Lots of love, good vibes, support and faith x



User is Offline Nova
219 posts Send Private Message
12/13/2012 7:52 PM
hopsalot, you've no idea how grateful I am for your comforting words! Faith, was something I was losing.....but I prayed, real hard, that if Boon is going to die, for him to go over the rainbow quickly because I just can't stand to see him sick anymore. 


And LPT for following..all of you guys who have been supporting and pulling for Boon...thank you!!!

Then, just before I made the call to have him put to sleep, I had one last resort idea pop into my head. I collected some of his poops in a baggie and took to the vet to look at under the microscope.
My reasoning was that, if you read a few pages back, when he was on the Bactrim in early November he developed diarrhea cecals. His normal poops were fine but I was waking up to diarrhea in his bed every morning since the last 3 days of the Bactrim and his appetite has been low ever since, lethargic, in pain, his belly feels doughey and full of gas and liquid.

Gas & liquid ... to me, equals some kind of infection

Well first off, thank GOD or whatever reigns in the Heavens above for my local vet. While she is no expert, she has been very patient and helpful to me and Boon's unique situation and is very rabbit experienced despite it all. Most other vets would wash their hands of me by now (some already have)

Anyway my compassionate local vet found Clostridium in his stool.  she said it was mild, but it was definitely there. For some reason she initially wanted to prescribe Bactrim because she thought that perhaps overgrowth of other bad bacteria was causing the Clostrdium to overgrow, but I then told her that his cecal diarrhea began while *on* Bactrim in the first place. (The Bactrim was prescribed by a totally different vet way down below Pittsburgh).


I also know that Bactrim does not treat Clostridium so I asked her to please treat the Clostridium, to my knowledge this is done with Flagyl (metronidazole). She said it is very uncommon so she would have to look up the dosing guidelines. The next day she called it in.

This link was provided to me by a helpful member of another bun forum,
http://wildpro.twycrosszoo.org/S/00...abbits.htm

Boon fits the description well for mild Clostridial infection in adult rabbits. (almost like C. Diff in humans - it is often caused by antibiotic usage, and it makes sense since he developed this while on Bactrim in November!)

Treatment is diet, fluids and Flagyl (metronidazole) 20mg per kg every 12 hours for 3 weeks.

I'm concerned because while the vet prescribed the right dosage (28mg every 12 hours, as Boon weighs 1.3kg) she only prescribed it for 2 weeks, not 3, so I am gonna call her tomorrow and see what she thinks of the information here in the link. The link is VERY thorough! But she did do the research, and I'm guessing 2 weeks will be just fine, I just want to double check since the link says 3 weeks.

More on Clostridium infection in bunnies (basically in infant buns it is acute and fatal, while in older buns it can be mild, chronic or acute)
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...mp;f=false

Also pain relief!

Boon had his first dose of Flagyl today and he already did some binkies around the room, and has actually been willfully eating on his own a lot more than he has in the last few weeks. However I won't assume he's getting better yet - being very cautious now.

VIBES AND PRAYERS FOR BOON PLEASE! This may mean Boon gets to spend more time here with me before he goes over the rainbow!!!


User is Offline CiscoKid
10 posts Send Private Message
12/15/2012 5:48 AM
oh my goodness i read this entire thread and i want you to know Boon is soooooooooo lucky to have such a loving and determined mother as you. There is no doubt in my mind that if Boon was owned by someone else he might not have gotten the same sort of attention that saved his life.

i send both Boon and you healing and good vibes

User is Offline MimzMum
Interior Alaska
7887 posts Send Private Message
12/15/2012 11:21 AM
Nova, I've skimmed the last of your posts here and I'm glad to see you and Boon are still fighting.
Will be sending a PM to you today. Hang in there. ((((((Hugs)))))))
 photo 3ca1b95d-0cfb-478a-9ea7-bfc6fff29518_zpsa40198b1.jpg

User is Offline LittlePuffyTail
New Brunswick, Canada
Forum Leader
11561 posts Send Private Message
12/17/2012 1:27 AM
Hi, Nova

How is Boon doing? I'm hoping and praying that this med is going to help. He is so very lucky to have a Momma and a vet who are so concerned and willing to try everything to get him better.

Boon is certainly a fighter. Through all of this, he still binkies. You owe it to him to never give up on him. And don't think negatively either. Positive thinking and faith can go a long way.

I'm crossing my fingers that Boon will feel well during Christmas and that the two of you will have a happy Holiday together.
Proud to be a Bunny Hugger and a voice for the voiceless
PhotobucketPhotobucketPhotobucket

User is Offline MimzMum
Interior Alaska
7887 posts Send Private Message
12/22/2012 12:14 AM
I'm a bit concerned that we haven't heard anything further. Does anyone have any news from Nova?

Really hope Boon is doing better.
 photo 3ca1b95d-0cfb-478a-9ea7-bfc6fff29518_zpsa40198b1.jpg

User is Offline LittlePuffyTail
New Brunswick, Canada
Forum Leader
11561 posts Send Private Message
12/22/2012 1:52 AM
Me too. Please give us an update, Nova. Thinking about you and Boon.
Proud to be a Bunny Hugger and a voice for the voiceless
PhotobucketPhotobucketPhotobucket

User is Offline jerseygirl
Australia
14759 posts Send Private Message
12/23/2012 2:32 PM
{{{VIBES}}} for you and Boon. You must be so exhausted. Hoping the metronidazole is making a difference. I think my vet said there's no known resistant bacteria too its probably the one to be on.

That Wildpro site is a fabulous resource but I always find I spend a lot of time looking up what most the terms mean when I research there. It's so technical. So giving copy of relevant parts (i.e. treatment summary) sounds like a good idea.

User is Offline hopsalot
38 posts Send Private Message
1/01/2013 7:51 PM
Any news??

User is Offline LittlePuffyTail
New Brunswick, Canada
Forum Leader
11561 posts Send Private Message
1/02/2013 1:40 AM
Ditto, would really like an update. I get worried when there is no news.
Proud to be a Bunny Hugger and a voice for the voiceless
PhotobucketPhotobucketPhotobucket

BINKYBUNNY FORUMS > DIET & CARE > Bun in GI Stasis not responding to meds

---