Help with diet and hay consumption (lengthy read)

[Waldo]

Hello everybody.  My name is Michael and my girlfriend and I have a bunny named Waldo.  We live in New Jersey and adopted him from Warwick Valley Humane Society in New York this past September.  They said at the time he was about 2 years old, so he is about 2 1/2 - 3 now.  He was rescued from a petting zoo type place which he was underfed and kept outside.

We rent a one floor condo, and Waldo has run of the house while we are home (one big room, one bedroom and the kitchen area).  We have a 5′ x 5′ x 6′ condo we built for him which he sleeps in overnight and the times we aren’t home.  He has seemed very happy with it and willingly spends time in there.  He is litter box trained and is very loving and affectionate.

He has a pretty routine feeding schedule:  All vegetables, once in the morning between 6am-7am, once after work around 3pm-5pm and once at night between 10pm-11pm.  He has hay throughout his bunny condo and 3 other hay spots around our house.  We started with Oxbow Western Timothy Hay and he took right to it and has been having that ever since. 

My concern is that over the past week or so he has been eating a noticably lesser amount of hay than usual.  The bag of hay I got was pretty bad, very hard and dry.  I thought maybe he was just being picky, so I returned the bag for the best bag they have left.  It was a bag that he would normally go through, but again he was very picky with it.  He seems to eat enough to help with his digestion, but he does not just graze and eat like he has normally done.  The only other concern besides that is that he also seems to be leaving less poop in his box throughout the day than we are used to seeing, and he seems to be producing a tad more cecotropes than normal, but he is still ingesting them. 

Other than that his personality seems to be the same as always.  He binks around the house, clicks while being pet, clicks for no reason, flops in his favorite spots and has a normal appetite for his vegetables, hay treats and sweet treats.  His litter looks and smells normal, his poop is solid and easily breaks.

My question is that is this an early sign of any serious problem?  It seems he is eating just enough hay he knows he needs but not even close to the normal amount he ate just a week ago.  Thank you for taking the time to read this.  I love Waldo very much and just hope he is being extremly picky and isn’t in any kind of pain or trying to tell me something.

[Sarita]

Well my first thought is molar spurs. I think it would be wise to have the vet check his teeth.

[Deleted User]

Whenever you are concerned or notice a change in behaviour a visit to the vet just can’t hurt. Better to know for sure if there is any health (or as Serita says dental) issues.

While you are doing that you can try a couple of other kinds of hay, … I understand that he likes his Timothy but he may enjoy other kinds such as oat, meadow, and/or orchard, and a change/variety may stimulate some added interest if he is geting picky or tired of the same hay.

Hope things are back to normal soon, … best of luck.

[Waldo]

We are still new-ish to taking care of him, but we have a very good idea of his routine and habits.  We took him to the vet for a nail trimming about 6 weeks ago and she said his teeth were good then.

I planned on taking him to the vet as soon as possible to be safe, but I figured I would get some more info while I wait tonight.  I will read up more on molar spurs.

EDIT: I don’t know how I forgot to mention this:  This morning I bought a different brand of timothy hay and a bag of oat hay to see if he was simply ready for a change, but he picked through it the same as the old stuff.

Thank you both for the reply! 

[Bam]

A vet can’t see the molars without a special instrument. Are you sure he isn’t eating sth he shouldn’t? One of my bunnies ate rag-rugs. I didn’t realize at first, I thought he was only digging and biting through them. After I exchanged his rag-rug (he’s free roam indoors) for a fleece-blanket, he’s been eating his hay like a prince and his poop is much bigger and better than it used to be, and over-production of cecals is nolonger a problem.

[Julezypie]

Maybe you can offer the hay in different ways, such as brown paper treat bags or stuffed in a tp roll. These were the suggestions from my vet to get jack to eat more hay. She sale male rabbits especially need tasks to entice them and curb boredom. I also figured out that Jack does not like his hay out of a bowl or container, he prefers it spread out in front of him on the floor lol.

[hannaroo]

I brought a bag of hay and it was damp and smelt a bit musky but I had no other hay so used it for a day and I exchanged the hay to them same brand but this time it was fresh. It was ignored by the bunnies and now I get fresh timothy hay by the bale from a farm (it’s smells great) and they eat TONNES of it now but their poops were smaller for 2 days from lack of hay. Try changing your hay manufacturer and see if that works. Maybe it was a bad experience for the bun? I guess it’s like if we went to a restaurant and got bad food and we’d then be reluctant to reorder?

If this fails take him to the vets, as the others said it could be a problem with his health, hope this helps

[hannaroo]

Ok and I recommend putting hay in one side of the litter tray if you haven’t already as this encourages them to eat/poop at the same time and hay consumption is generally better

[Waldo]

Posted By bam on 07/16/2013 01:01 AM
A vet can’t see the molars without a special instrument. Are you sure he isn’t eating sth he shouldn’t? One of my bunnies ate rag-rugs. I didn’t realize at first, I thought he was only digging and biting through them. After I exchanged his rag-rug (he’s free roam indoors) for a fleece-blanket, he’s been eating his hay like a prince and his poop is much bigger and better than it used to be, and over-production of cecals is nolonger a problem.

Thank you for the reply.  He has had his very few times where he gets fixated on digging up the carpet and actually chewing and eating the fibers, but we have been very lucky that he hasn’t been a constant problem with that.  We keep a good eye on him when he’s roaming the house and I am confident that he hasn’t gotten into anything that would be a problem that I know of.  He’s gotten a few buttons off of our remote and chewed this or that, but besides that he’s been good.

 

Posted By Julezypie on 07/16/2013 04:15 AM
Maybe you can offer the hay in different ways, such as brown paper treat bags or stuffed in a tp roll. These were the suggestions from my vet to get jack to eat more hay. She sale male rabbits especially need tasks to entice them and curb boredom. I also figured out that Jack does not like his hay out of a bowl or container, he prefers it spread out in front of him on the floor lol.

Hi, thank you for your reply.  I actually just started spreading it out in some places in his bunny condo, just like you said on the floor lol, and throughout the house.  He is still just being picky with it, which is very unlike him.  We started off by piling it into his box, always enough to spare throughout the work day or the hours we may not be home, but again he continues to be picky.  I have not tried to brown paper bag, but I have used the tp roll which he is on and off with.  Some days it’s sitting in the same spot and some days it’s tossed around his house.  Throughout this slump of his he has basically just munched on what’s sticking out and left the rest stuffed in the roll.

 

Posted By hannaroo on 07/16/2013 06:08 AM
I brought a bag of hay and it was damp and smelt a bit musky but I had no other hay so used it for a day and I exchanged the hay to them same brand but this time it was fresh. It was ignored by the bunnies and now I get fresh timothy hay by the bale from a farm (it’s smells great) and they eat TONNES of it now but their poops were smaller for 2 days from lack of hay. Try changing your hay manufacturer and see if that works. Maybe it was a bad experience for the bun? I guess it’s like if we went to a restaurant and got bad food and we’d then be reluctant to reorder?

If this fails take him to the vets, as the others said it could be a problem with his health, hope this helps

He have always thought as long as he’s eating then why change a good thing, so we have stuck with Oxbow Western Timothy Hay.  I thought the same thing about the bad batch we have, so like I posted before I returned that one and bought one (same brand) that looked, felt and smelt better.  He didn’t take to that as he usually does, so I returned it for a third but still no luck.  I bought two smaller size bags of two different brands and types also and he is even pickier with those.  I kept them seperate, one pile of new and one pile of original in his house and seperate piles of each outside of his house.  Again, picky picky picky and not interested in a brand new hay.  I have not looked into the bales from a farm yet.  That’s something I was only going to do because of cost, but since he steadily ate his old stuff I never really looked into it.

 

Thank you all for the help and suggestions!  I greatly appreciate it.  I took the day off of work today, he ate his vegetables and went through the morning seemingly happy including a lap around the house and a flop to follow.  I’m watching him eat hay and (hopefully) poop now.  I have a call into the vet and i’m waiting for a return call.  We are still establishing our relationship with her, we’ve been there twice for nail clippings and a general checkup since we’ve had him (last September).

[Megabunny]

Hannaroo,

This leads me to a question I’ve been meaning to post. I’m going to start getting hay from a farm, too, as they hay in the pet stores is way too expensive for the number (and size) of buns that I have. Should I just get Timothy from them? I seem to recall getting clover hay years (and years) ago for other rabbits, but noone has mentioned that as a suitable hay. I don’t know what other kinds they have, but will be calling soon, as I think they are probably doing their 2nd cutting around now.

[Beka27]

If it is dental related (molar spurs), different rabbits have a varying degree of tolerance for them. Some rabbits will go off their food at the slightest indication of the points starting. Other rabbits will eat normally until the spurs are severe, and only then do they go off their food. So it is possible that they could have developed within the past 6 weeks, or the spurs were very minimal at the time of the appointment and have since progressed.

Eating hay requires a very unique back and forth grinding motion with the molars, this could explain why the hay is being snubbed, but the veggies are still being eaten. He may want to eat his hay, but it’s uncomfortable.

Keep us posted.

[Deleted User]

Mega Bunny, most farm hay will be a mix , so its important to buy a good quality. It isn’t likely to be divided the way you buy them in the pet stores (Timothy, oat, etc.), its a blend. If it was to be fed to dairy cows, riding or racing horses then it should be good for the rabbits. And the price difference is Incredible. I get mine at a racing stable, five dollars for roughly a fifty pound bail, and my two LOVE it! They are also on their first bail since April so I’m getting my money’s worth.

Good luck finding somewhere suitable. The one other little problem you may have is finding someone who still does the smaller bails, since I’m presuming the three hundred pound plus ones would give you a problem too. Definitely worth a little time and effort though since finding the right place to sell some is such a major pay off.

[Megabunny]

Thanks Grey Dove,

There is a really nice Garden Center in a small town who has large animals and they actually offered to even sell partial bales, though the rate I see my kiddos going through it, I think I’ll be getting a whole bale. I never put stock in the importance of feeding hay and very few pellets, but I’m learning!! (I’m trying to break out of my old-school habits)

 

[hannaroo]

Megabunny – Me and a few local bun enthusiasts split the cost of a bale (£8) so the hay stays fresh by the time our rabbits have finished it. It probably is a blend but the farmer said it’s mostly timothy. The bunnies eat alot of it and have bigger poops than the hay from the pet store I was spending £30 on hay (mine eat alot despite also eating lots of grass) so £4 a month is a huge difference. Just make sure it’s suitable for rabbits and it comes from a clean environment. Ideally ask around your local area for any recommendations

[jerseygirl]

I echo the suggestion of dental troubles. If not molar spurs, possibly a grass seed lodging in gum causing enough discomfort with some chewing actions.

Even not eating cecotrophes right away can be an indicator of dental issues. You’ll notice they “chew” on these quite a bit before ingesting. This might be uncomfortable for him to do currently.
Another thing rabbits with teeth probs might do is begin to eat a lot of their fecal droppings. It’s a quick way for them to get fibre without having to chew much.

Also, as Bam has said, they sometimes start eating something else like paper litter or cardboard, then reduce the hay intake. Even when ingesting more fur during a moult, they may have a full feeling and not go to eat hay as often. Unfortunately.

Are you feeding any new types of vegetables?
You could try reduce his vegetable intake a little to see if it helps encourage him to eat more hay. If not successful, then I’d up the veggies again because they’re offering good fibre along with hay.

[Deleted User]

Mega Bunny, I’d be a little cautious, all hays are not created equal and just because it is being fed to large animals (particularly ones that also are allowed to graze, or receive other feed, (such as beef cattle)) may not have the high quality good mix you want to feed your rabbits.

As was suggested asking around is a good idea, and I specifically mentioned dairy cows and riding/racing stables because those cows and horses are fed a very high quality hay.

When I collected my two from the SPCA they had been being fed correctly, but on pet store hay. (I think it was my hay that sold me to the rabbits, they said hello , hopped into the carrier I’d put on the floor, began eating and that was it, … they haven’t stopped since.) But after a couple of weeks it was surprising the difference in the texture and gloss of their fur. I fed my last rabbit timothy hay from pet store bags, it smelt good and he loved it, but there is a difference.

[Megabunny]

Well, a horse person recommended them, so I hope it’s OK   Any concerns about bugs being brought in the house doing it this way? Stupid question probably,  but have to ask.

 

[Megabunny]

Hmmm. Thanks I’ll def. check into that, Grey Dove Thanks for being out there!

[Waldo]

Thank you all again for the replies and suggestions.  I took Waldo to the vet this morning and she did an oral exam and general checkup.  She said everything that she can see and feel is good, from teeth the toes, and if the problems continue or worsen through the end of the week to bring him back and have him sedated and examined.  She recommended the critical care package to see if that gets his system going more frequently and back to “normal.”

She said to give him a bit less of his normal amount of food coupled with 4 doses of 10ML of the critical care per day.  She said to start with two today, one in the afternoon and one at night.  I have given him the first dose and he actually started licking my finger, so I was lucky enough that he ate the complete dose right from my hand.  I shouldn’t jinx it and I hope the novelty doesn’t wear off, but if he takes it like that it would make things so much easier!

He responded to it well and definitely pooped a larger amount than he has been, but he is still reluctant to eat more hay than I think he feels is “necessary” for him.  He still enjoyed hearing the bag of hay treats shake and his personality is all there, so I hope this little slump passes soon.  I feel so bad knowing he’s not 100% right.

Thank you all for the replies.  Knowing that I can get advice from a trusted place (which I have read long before we had Waldo) gives me a nice peace of mind.  As I continue to learn about bunnies I will do my best to offer any advice in return!

[jerseygirl]

That’s good to hear! Critical care can be a trial to force if they dont like it. You might get away with mixing it thicker and giving to him in a bowl.

[Deleted User]

I’ve never used critical care, but I did read suggestions on another thread about mixing it with either carrot juice or pumpkin. Might help keep him interested.

I’m glad things went well at the vet’s and that generally he’s feeling pretty good. Hope this stimulates his appetite and that he is happy and not worrying you soon. (I know what it is like to worry about a furry person!)

[Wandering Star]

I’m having a similar problem with my bunny Sydney. Her appetite for hay has dramatically decreased over the past 2 or 3 months. She normally loves the Oxbow Timothy, but lately she’s been snubbing it. I’ve even tried the Botanical blend which has extra herbs and flowers in it. Her poops are hard and small.

I brought her to the vet about a month ago for a check-up. He said she has a “slight” molar spur but “it isn’t bad enough to bother her”. His suggestion for the hay dilemma was to decrease or cut out veggies. I don’t like this idea, and it didn’t work either. She starves herself until she gets her pellets (twice a day).
I thought that maybe it was because she is getting older- she is somewhere between 4 and 5 years old. But she is a total pig when it comes to all other foods.

I have ordered hay from this website before, and she seems to like it even more than Oxbow, but even that has lost its appeal for her. I’m so worried about her
I have Critical Care on hand so maybe I should try and see if she will eat it willingly.

[Beka27]

Wandering Star: like I replied to Waldo, rabbits can experience varying degrees of discomfort with molar spurs. Your rabbit’s points may be small, but they may still be causing pain when she eats. Have you talked to the vet about having them taken care of anyways?

[Waldo]

Hi Wandering Star,

I’m very sorry to hear about your bunny’s loss of interest in hay and in the other food too.  I really do wish I could offer more advice, but I came here myself to see what advice I could take from the more experienced owners.  It is just scary to me that one day they can simply become disinterested in the hay or food they’ve loved for years.  I wish I could offer more advice, but I can only tell you what i’ve done for Waldo:

I brought him to the vet on Tuesday and essentially she had the same diagnosis (it wasn’t a tooth problem and no visible concerns), so she recommended the critical care.  I started giving it to him that afternoon after our morning vet visit.  He had 2 doses of 10ML of the mixture and then the full 4 doses the next day.  I can tell you for sure that it has definitely re-sparked his interest in picking at hay and he is going to the bathroom more regularly.  Although his poop stayed healthy while he wasn’t eating much hay, it was absolutely less frequent to the point where I knew something was wrong. 

I can only recommend the things that you have probably already heard or tried: different brands and kinds, different placement of the hay, maybe hand feeding Sydney some to see if it gets her interested.  I am confident you know those basic suggestions, so hopefully what i’ve done for Waldo can give you a bit of information.  I’m sorry I could not offer more solid suggestions, but I just wanted to thank you for your reply and concern and let you know I will be hoping for Sydney to get back to her normal self!  Good luck and please reply with any updates on how she is doing.

[Sarita]

Wandering Star if she has molar spurs and her appetite has decreased then you should have those molars trimmed.

[Valkyrie]

Fantastic news!
Maybe this is actually a good change (since the vet gave him a clean bill of health) and we are all looking at it wrong. You said that he is a rescue and that he wasn’t fed regularly, right? Maybe this just means that he has come to realize that he won’t be starved again and therefore isn’t trying to stock up his belly as much (I’ve had this with all sorts of rescue animals). He may have been grazing so much throughout the day because he was not secure that the nightly feed would come. Now that you have had him awhile, he is feeling more stable. Just a thought anyways!

Merlin HATED hay! I know everyone reading this is probably like “nah, that’s impossible,” but I kid you not. I had to fight with him for years to eat a good amount of hay. My final solution was to buy different kinds and alternate it every day. So one day he would have timothy, the next orchard grass, then timothy again, maybe some alfalfa, etc. He would get bored so easily and by alternating the type it seemed more like a treat to him. My local pet store also sells “enriched” timothy. It is basically timothy with some fruit or vegetable mixed it. Now I’m not sure that it does have powerful antioxidants or whatever else that mix was supposed to do, but I did find that Merlin ate more of it. He would forage through for the pieces of mango, marigold, or whatever was in the mix and eat more hay.

[Wandering Star]

Thank you everyone for your advice and concern. I am so grateful for the wealth of knowledge on this site! After reading this thread I started Sydney on Critical Care, and it’s a good thing I did, because according to the vet she has lost a bit of weight. He tried to trim her teeth (I was not present) but she struggled so much that they couldn’t get anything accomplished. My girl is a fighter! haha. My only option now is to put her under anesthetic to have her teeth ground down. I find it so odd that she will still eat pellets and veggies no problem but refuses hay. Though she nibbles on the Meadow grass every now and again.
Fingers crossed that all goes well with the surgery. I’m nervous about it but trying to remain optimistic.

[jerseygirl]

Under anaesthetic is definitely the way to go. It will give your vet a chance to check if there are any more spurs not seen in the initial exam.

It’s likely the side to side motion needed to chew hay that she’s avoiding. Greens are softer and don’t need as much work to chew and pellets don’t need much chewing at all.

[Hoppin Mad]

Blood in the urine, I think. It doesn’t happen all the time and at times there is only a little bit and at times there can be about 1/4 cup or more. Should I bring him into the vet? It has been an off an on happening for a almost a month now. Should I bring him into the vet or what?

[Azerane]

Hey Hoppin Mad, we ask that members don’t reply to old threads such as these as it can cause some confusion. I recommend you start a new thread on your bunny’s health problems to get more advice. If you know it’s blood, you should definitely see a vet.

[Author]

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